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Tactical Air War

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Peska is out, settings don't work, engine start failure and damage on every attempted start.  Tried multiple start modes, number two first, still a failed initial start.  Tried hitting the start button, than cycle it off before the engine swings, than fresh start, still an aborted start, or damaged start.

Edited by [CPT]Crunch

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This. Pe2’s will always be a formable target to attack, but adjusting AI skill to a lower setting (for both sides) would hopefully cut down on those impossible shots the gunners make. All this talk about Pe2’s being historically strong or that there is something in AI coding for Pe2’s specifically is all a distraction and not the issue. German gunners make impossible shots, too, just less often for the reasons I already stated, so less noticeable. Adjusting skill levels to normal for red and blue is what was being asked for. Anyone sitting on a bomber’s 6 or doing other poor attacks will still get what they deserve most of the time, and more so when attacking a PE2, like it should be.

 

 

Change log looks great! Should be a fun campaign, glad it’s finally here!

Yes I never mentioned pe2 I just said gunners. But in most cases it is indeed pe2s. (Because of the gunner's arc and high caliber machine gun and the fragile LW planes it is up against.)

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How do you start car in the winter?  I doubt you max the RPM when the oil has the lubrication properties of Canadian maple syrup. 

 

That's what some middle Europeans plebs might do. In Russia that's more important than stopping before a red light. Listen to this man guys, he is Finnish.  :russian_ru:

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Can anyone confirm please:

 

Quick mission, custom settings, warmed up engine unchecked.

Moscow autumn map.

Spawn parked.

 

Pe2 series 35, combat load. All rads shut.

Press E and tell me if #2 starts at all or doesn't stay running longer then 20 seconds.

This doesn’t work? I don’t have time to test right now:

 

Engine Start

1. Close oil radiator and water radiator

2. Set full RPM (This may take a long time)

3. Set full rich (mixture)

4. Press E to start both motors

5. Wait for the oil in temp to be above

60 C and for the water temp to be above 60 C

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Heated garage. =)

Colossal bills 

This doesn’t work? I don’t have time to test right now:

 

Engine Start

1. Close oil radiator and water radiator

2. Set full RPM (This may take a long time)

3. Set full rich (mixture)

4. Press E to start both motors

5. Wait for the oil in temp to be above

60 C and for the water temp to be above 60 C

 

 

This "full RPM" is messing with me, when the real way is to set props to feather. 

 

Full RPM + governor + throttle at 15% should result in somewhat feathered prop and not so high RPM's to cause damage. 

 

The thing in cold start you want to avoid is putting load on engine that might damage the piston components and other critical systems that are dependent on good lubrication. Most oils in WW2 era had poor performance when the mercury dropped below the freezing and decided to stop at "i cant feel my face" temperatures of motherland.

 

The important question is, how the devs have implemented this feature in this game? Does it follow any kind of "realistic" logic or is it the "monkey island" approach?

Edited by Cpt_Siddy

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I'm afraid there will be huge queues on some airfield to pop into the parking.

 

Not to mention, needles timesink to eat at the 2h mission time. 

 

There will be loads of "ill go to fridge while i let my engine warm up" only to find themselves kicked from inactivity. This is turning in to winter work commute simulator  :biggrin:

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Is the warm up waiting time counted in the 25mn CM requirement ?

 

Are the number of spot to spawn at some airfield has been increased because now a spawn will be blocked for around 5minutes if the user dont move a little to allow other to spawn?

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Well, none of the things said here matter. 

 

In Winter pretty much all Aircraft were either kept running 24/7 or the Engines were simply emptied of Coolant for the Night and filled with Boiling Water before Startup. The Germans learnt this from the Russians. 

The Ju-52 the Manual actually recommended Pre Heating the Oil with a common Immersion Heater and stirring it with a Cooking Spoon. 

 

In a Way the "Pre Warmed" Engines are a realistic Option for Winter Maps. 

 

Only in Autumn and Summer would be more realistic to have Cold Starts. 

 

But then there is the Problem that the Thermodynamics in Il-2 suck when it comes to Ground Run Up, as all Engines have waaay too efficient cooling when stationary and in Idle. 

The P-40 is a prime Example of an Overcooled Engine that will never Warm Up, similar for the 109 which IRL should not do Ground Runs longer than 1 to 5 Minutes, but ingame can sit there indefinetly.

For both these Aircraft it was actually recommended to Take-Off pretty much as soon as the Engine is running evenly, so normally no more than 1 Minute after Start Up in normal Weather, and a Maximum of 5 in very, very cold Weather. 

 

So you shouldn't have to worry about taking a long time to Warm Up, as most of these were ready to go pretty much immediately and have to be Shut Down when stationary for a couple of Minutes. 

 

It does state that in the 109 Manual quite specifically. 

Edited by 6./ZG26_Klaus-Mann
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No self-respecting mechanic would leave the engine warm-up in the pilot's hands for an aircraft about to depart.

 

Soviet ground crews used to wrap the engines in protective material (same as the unfashionable and extremely warm telogreiki jackets) and kept the engines nice and cosy with rudimentary heaters which burned fuel to produce heat that was driven to the engine via a tube.

 

355957_3_i_044.png

Edited by 216th_Lucas_From_Hell
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Well, none of the things said here matter.

 

In Winter pretty much all Aircraft were either kept running 24/7 or the Engines were simply emptied of Coolant for the Night and filled with Boiling Water before Startup. The Germans learnt this from the Russians.

The Ju-52 the Manual actually recommended Pre Heating the Oil with a common Immersion Heater and stirring it with a Cooking Spoon.

 

In a Way the "Pre Warmed" Engines are a realistic Option for Winter Maps.

 

Only in Autumn and Summer would be more realistic to have Cold Starts.

 

But then there is the Problem that the Thermodynamics in Il-2 suck when it comes to Ground Run Up, as all Engines have waaay too efficient cooling when stationary and in Idle.

The P-40 is a prime Example of an Overcooled Engine that will never Warm Up, similar for the 109 which IRL should not do Ground Runs longer than 1 to 5 Minutes, but ingame can sit there indefinetly.

For both these Aircraft it was actually recommended to Take-Off pretty much as soon as the Engine is running evenly, so normally no more than 1 Minute after Start Up in normal Weather, and a Maximum of 5 in very, very cold Weather.

 

So you shouldn't have to worry about taking a long time to Warm Up, as most of these were ready to go pretty much immediately and have to be Shut Down when stationary for a couple of Minutes.

 

It does state that in the 109 Manual quite specifically.

Very interesting! Well, I’m sure TAW devs had some gameplay reason for putting in cold starts. Doubt it was an attempt to make things more historical. Maybe trying to avoid people from taking off so quickly for one reason or another. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

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same as the unfashionable and extremely warm telogreiki jackets
 

 

What do you prefer, freeze your arse off but look fashionable or be warm :^)


 

 

Will be interesting to see how it plays out.
 

 

Unintended consequences come to mind :^) 

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavochkin-Gorbunov-Gudkov_LaGG-3

 

Soviet pilots generally disliked this aircraft. Pilot Viktor M. Sinaisky recalled:

It was an unpleasant client! Preparing the LaGG-3 for flight demanded more time in comparison with other planes. All cylinders were supposed to be synchronized: God forbid you from shifting the gas distribution! We were strictly forbidden to touch the engine! ... [T]here were constant problems with [the] water-cooled engines in winter.... [T]here was no anti-freeze liquid [and y]ou couldn't keep the engine running all night long, so you had to pour hot water into the cooling system ... in the morning. ... [P]ilots didn't like flying the LaGG-3 – a heavy beast with a weak ... engine... [T]hey got used to it ... [but] we had higher losses on LaGG-3 than on I-16s.[11]

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I don't think its a good idea cold starts warm starts ect its hard enough getting onto the server and taking off with the wait times .

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Very interesting! Well, I’m sure TAW devs had some gameplay reason for putting in cold starts. Doubt it was an attempt to make things more historical. Maybe trying to avoid people from taking off so quickly for one reason or another. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Well, in General the Weather on TAW needs improvement. The Winds are unrealistic in Distribution and Speed, the Cloud Levels and Coverage are unrealistic as well, and the Temperatures are too Low across the Board.

 

Moscow should have very strong Winds (5+m/s on the Ground) from Southwest with Westerly Directions being more prominent in the Spring. Clouds Levels would be between 400 and 1200 at the most, but 600 to 800 should be Normal, going up to almost 2000m in Summer.

It's hard to find good Information otherwise, but it should be quite Overcast or very Clear in Winter, very little inbetween. Summer would be more diverse. 

 

Stalingrad Weather is hard to find in English, so is Krim, but I think I'm right in thinking that it is quite deliberately made Easy Mode. Temperatures are low to keep the Engines happy, 5° on Summer Maps often enough, and freezing in Autumn, Clouds are Minimum 2000m and Visibility is always great. Never Rain, never Snow, never anything to make it challenging. 

 

Coconut isn't afraid to use more Realistic Weather, and it changes the Way you can fly quite a bit, it's a lot more challenging to fly in a Summer with 35°C instead of 5°C and you have to Plan your Fights and Attacks differently. Just try flying on Coconut's for a bit until TAW comes and I bet it will change your Perspective a good Deal. 

 

I wish TAW could try it as well, take more Risks, be a bit less convenient and at the same time more historically accurate. 

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I wish TAW could try it as well, take more Risks, be a bit less convenient and at the same time more historically accurate. 

You mean make it less easy for all the mini-Hartmanns and mini-Kozhedubs?!?! My God man ;)

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You mean make it less easy for all the mini-Hartmanns and mini-Kozhedubs?!?! My God man ;)

Well, if you claim to have a Ground Attacked based Server and Community and then make it Easy Mode for the Fighters, by stationing Laser AA, having Retarded AI Gunners, putting Targets within 3km of Airfields full of Fighters and having Weather that's Tailormade for the Fighters, well, I think that claim is worth as much as Greece. 

Edited by 6./ZG26_Klaus-Mann

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Well, in General the Weather on TAW needs improvement. The Winds are unrealistic in Distribution and Speed, the Cloud Levels and Coverage are unrealistic as well, and the Temperatures are too Low across the Board.

 

Moscow should have very strong Winds (5+m/s on the Ground) from Southwest with Westerly Directions being more prominent in the Spring. Clouds Levels would be between 400 and 1200 at the most, but 600 to 800 should be Normal, going up to almost 2000m in Summer.

It's hard to find good Information otherwise, but it should be quite Overcast or very Clear in Winter, very little inbetween. Summer would be more diverse.

 

Stalingrad Weather is hard to find in English, so is Krim, but I think I'm right in thinking that it is quite deliberately made Easy Mode. Temperatures are low to keep the Engines happy, 5° on Summer Maps often enough, and freezing in Autumn, Clouds are Minimum 2000m and Visibility is always great. Never Rain, never Snow, never anything to make it challenging.

 

Coconut isn't afraid to use more Realistic Weather, and it changes the Way you can fly quite a bit, it's a lot more challenging to fly in a Summer with 35°C instead of 5°C and you have to Plan your Fights and Attacks differently. Just try flying on Coconut's for a bit until TAW comes and I bet it will change your Perspective a good Deal.

 

I wish TAW could try it as well, take more Risks, be a bit less convenient and at the same time more historically accurate.

Maybe you missed a few maps or campaigns, but TAW weather can be pretty harsh. No way I’d call it “easy mode”. If you notice the temp on the 1st map of this upcoming campaign, it’s 30C, probably will climb from there a bit since it’s just mid-July. I’ve played on Coconut’s server a bit (few hours), haven’t seen a whole lot of difference weather wise from similar TAW maps. Wind is often very strong on most maps, my only complaint in that area with TAW is that wind direction has always been set to same direction for all altitudes (why is that?). I couldn’t speak to the normal or historical conditions around Moscow/Stalingrad/Kuban at all, though.

 

Well, if you claim to have a Ground Attacked based Server and Community and then make it Easy Mode for the Fighters, by stationing Laser AA, having Retarded AI Gunners, putting Targets within 3km of Airfields full of Fighters and having Weather that's Tailormade for the Fighters, well, I think that claim is worth as much as Greece.

Too funny! I agree with many of your points, but still love TAW despite the flaws. I’d play a campaign that you put together, Klaus. Sure have a lot of good ideas and knowledge, you should put it to use rather than just use it for jabs and complaints. Edited by HenHawk

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Too funny! I agree with many of your points, but still love TAW despite the flaws. I’d play a campaign that you put together, Klaus. Sure have a lot of good ideas and knowledge, you should put it to use rather than just use it for jabs and complaints.

It's easier to be a Critic. The best Man to make Suggestions for Improvements isn't the Engineer, but the Operator, the User. 

 

The other Guys in my Squad are more Versed in Mission Building, I am the flying Encyclopedia on how to fly everything, I try and test everything and come to Tactical Conclusions. 

And Based on my Observations I make reasonable Suggestions. I leave Building Stuff to my Real Life.

When I work, I prefer getting my Hands just about as dirty as necessary. Enough Vintage Planes, Classic Bikes, Cars and Boats to worry about as is. 

Edited by 6./ZG26_Klaus-Mann

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The "Forum" Button on the webpage is still linking to a old campaign post. 

 

is changed.  thx. 

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Coconut isn't afraid to use more Realistic Weather, and it changes the Way you can fly quite a bit,

 

I flew Coconut last week and it had solid cloud cover at 300m.  That certainly changed the way we flew :-)    Very difficult but atmospheric and we did find action in the murk.

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I have issues with registration.

 

I registered Axis pilot to name SCG_Fenris_Wolf.

Then I registered Allied pilot to another callsign.

I used the same E-Mail Address for both.

 

Now I cannot login to SCG_Fenris_Wolf at all, it always says wrong password. Pressed "I Forgot Password" to get new password. It also does not work, and says wrong password again.

 

What can I do? Can you help me please? :(

 

I found a solution thank you

Edited by SCG_Fenris_Wolf

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Hi friends.

 

 

 

Nice numbers on register.  We are near of 200 players registered.   Aprox 125 blue and 75 red.  Ratio is under 2 blue for 1 red .... lowest as usual, i prefer ratio near 3 blue vs 1 red, 

 

 

 

hahahahhahaaha, 

 

 

 

See you soon on air. good luck mates.

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We are still unsure what to Name ourselves this Campaign. What would be one of the more ironically famous Squadrons, a Group known for their F-Ups and what you would consider quite the opposite of Elite?

 

What would a Training Squadron be called?

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We are still unsure what to Name ourselves this Campaign. What would be one of the more ironically famous Squadrons, a Group known for their F-Ups and what you would consider quite the opposite of Elite?

 

What would a Training Squadron be called?

 

national guard

 

- like in US when the airline pilots fly fighters on weekends

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And the Russian Version of that would be?

 

If the short for National guard is NG (or ANG)

 

the Russian version could be RNG ;)

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Didn't Russia have penal regiments ie units made up entirely of people they suspected of being un-communist?

Names, I need Names. 

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I remember many campaigns starting with huge blue number advantage in registration. Has never really meant much in the end before, could be different this time, though.

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Change list looks sweet Kathon, can't wait!

 

Here is a video I made a while back that quickly shows off the sharing feature of il2missionplanner, for folks that don't know about it. Video says its beta but it's outdated, the feature has existed for a while.

 

 

 

Thanks for integrating your work into TAW, should be a huge help!

 

Lowering the 61K amounts should make a difference to even things for ground attackers, but I’m a bit sad both sides weren’t just given roughly the same AA calibers instead. The lowered AA AI level in overcast is a very welcome change! Airfields will be tougher to hold, hope this greats more back-and-forth action rather then the steamrolling in the last campaign. Now, let’s see how these cold starts work out for gameplay...

Edited by HenHawk

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Good to have you stick around on red Tumu. I've been practicing so my gunnery while on fire has improved a notch. Perhaps I can be of use other than as a beacon to where the action is.

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Hi friends.

 

 

 

Nice numbers on register.  We are near of 200 players registered.   Aprox 125 blue and 75 red.  Ratio is under 2 blue for 1 red .... lowest as usual, i prefer ratio near 3 blue vs 1 red, 

 

 

 

hahahahhahaaha, 

 

 

 

See you soon on air. good luck mates.

Yup. Looks like the stacking will continue ... I'll see you on the red side Tumu :)

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