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Version 1.107 First Impressions


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Main points:

 

1. Overall improved look of the summer and autumn maps. Quite noticable in fact. Still a lot of small issues but overall a significant step forward.

 

2. Smoke and vapor trails are now affected by wind! For some reason this is quite important for me. It certainly has made the overall look of the trails a lot more natural.

 

3. Off road bumpyness on the airfields themselves reduced. Will propably make a lot of people happy.

 

4. The Bf 109F2 fits nicely in between the E7 and F4 performance-wise. It is quite a bit slower than the F4 at all altitudes, there is nothing of that "rocket ship"-feeling. At combat power it really has no significant performance advantage over the MiG, even at low altitude. The default skin is beautiful, and even better, the plane model is completely compatible with custom F4 skins.

 

5. The IL-2 1941 and Pe-2 S.37 are cool to have, but really not that different from their BoS cousins in other than armament options and minor details in the cockpit. Their default skins are boring as hell, but fairly representative of what those aircraft looked like early in the war.

 

6. The fix of the MiGs 3D model means that it now looks downright perfect - best MiG model in any sim. Unfortunately it also means, that all custom skins created so far have small but noticeable inaccuracies in the panel lines on the lower cowling. :mellow:

 

7. Great update with a lot of stuff but nothing really groundbreaking other than the fact, that it'll now be posible to set up servers with purely BoM planesets (throw in the He 111 for good measure) Something I hope to see soon.

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Thanks Finkeren! Just the feedback I was hoping for. I for one do not understand why the developers introduce slight variances of existing planes when they could be putting their efforts into new planes like a P39. Anyone else feel this way or is it just me?

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Thanks Finkeren! Just the feedback I was hoping for. I for one do not understand why the developers introduce slight variances of existing planes when they could be putting their efforts into new planes like a P39. Anyone else feel this way or is it just me?

 

For Battle of Moscow I'd say that the F2 makes perfect sense. And trust me: It doesn't feel like the F4 at all. In terms of handling and the all-important climb performance, it feels closer to the E7 than to the F4.  

 

One of the things I really liked about the original IL-2, especially after the release of Forgotten Battles, was that you could follow certain plane types' evolution throughout the war. Of course there comes a point, where new models are so similar, that it makes no sense modelling them both (I wouldn't want a Bf 109G4 to supplement the G4) but the 4 109s we have so far are different enough to warrant seperate models I think. 

 

Honestly I look forward to later models of Yaks and La-5s almost as much as new planes like the P-39.

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I will also confirm an improvement in the scenery. I am digging the F2 more than the F4,G2 and E7 for some reason. I also like the earlier Il-2 more. I haven't tried the Pe-2 though. I do like the early war plain green skins as well. I am extremely grateful for the MiG-3 model enhancement as it was something that once noticed drove me to fits of rage followed by crying in the shower while hurting myself.

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Great. So another rewriting of history 

 

Not really, no.

 

At 1.30 ATA that's pretty much the performance I'd expect of the F2. At that power setting it just about measures up to the MiG-3 going at full power.

 

At higher altitudes the F2 begins to lag behind a bit, but not much, exactly as it should.

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The Mig definitely shouldn't be faster, or even as fast as the F2 at lower levels..it should be around E7 performance. Speaking about combat rating

 

Edit:

Probably found the error. Combat rating in game is 1.25ata, while it was 1.3 back then in real life. One more plane that is broken because of the manipulation of engines in this game...

Edited by II./JG77_Manu*
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The Mig definitely shouldn't be faster, or even as fast as the F2 at lower levels..it should be around E7 performance. Speaking about combat rating

I didn't say the MiG was faster, I haven't run proper speed tests, but in overall combat situations they seem pretty much equal in overall performance at low level, with the 109 obviously having the advantage in climb and the MiG having somewhat better acceleration.

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but in overall combat situations they seem pretty much equal in overall performance at low level

And that's what i meant with rewriting history. All sources you can possibly find tell a complete different story..Mig being "outclassed" is the regular term you'll find 

apart from that, i don't care too much.

I don't have to fly the F2, and every sane/unbiased mission designer will include the F4 for Battle of Moscow scenarios as well, so no point in flying the F2 if it isn't representing the supremacy it should have over Soviet planes at that time

Edited by II./JG77_Manu*
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Seriously I would test it online first. I've quickly tested the F-2 at summer setting (interrupted by a computer crash) and it's definetly faster than the Mig at GL:

 

1.15ata auto rad 460km/h (~ Migs topspeed without boost)

1.3 ata  auto rad 490 km/h

1.42 ata auto rad 500 km/h (radiator opening had a high impact at this point as my engine overheated)

Edited by Stab/JG26_5tuka
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Haven't started the game yet, but I have noticed a few things already:

- Mission editor crashes a lot more often now. Annoying of course, but one can work around it after developing a CTRL-S compulsion.

- DServer seems to use more CPU. Not necessarily bad, depends on what these cycles are used for.

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And that's what i meant with rewriting history. All sources you can possibly find tell a complete different story..Mig being "outclassed" is the regular term you'll find

apart from that, i don't care too much.

I don't have to fly the F2, and every sane/unbiased mission designer will include the F4 for Battle of Moscow scenarios as well, so no point in flying the F2 if it isn't representing the supremacy it should have over Soviet planes at that time

I honestly don't get what you're talking about.

 

It's not like the MiG is as good a fighter (or better for that matter) as the Bf 109F2 or even the E7.

 

The F2 has a very clear advantage over the MiG in the following areas:

 

- Climb rate at all altitudes

 

- Ease of handling, especially at lower speeds

 

- Overall ease of piloting

 

- Stability as a gun platform

 

- Durability (the MiG is fragile as hell)

 

- Maneuverability in all planes except rolling (very noticable at low and very high speeds)

 

- Maximum dive speed

 

- Sustained turn rate

 

- Easier take off and landing

 

The MiG pretty much has this:

 

- Better roll rate

 

- Better cockpit view

 

- Seems to have a slight advantage in acceleration

 

- Better performance (except climb) above 5000m

 

- Acceleration in a dive

 

- Gorgeous looks

 

Add to that the factors that aren't represented well in this sim, better radio equipment, better tactics and better pilot training all in favor of the 109 and I don't see how this is far off the mark.

 

Is the Bf 109F2 superior as a fighter to the MiG? Hell yeah! I'd argue that even the E7 is overall a better fighter. That doesn't mean the MiG is completely impotent, it's not, but it's far more demanding and requires careful piloting to just measure up to the F2. After all, the MiG did father a handful of double- and tripple aces in it's short service life under the very unfavorable conditions in 1941.

Seriously I would test it online first. I've quickly tested the F-2 at summer setting (interrupted by a computer crash) and it's definetly faster than the Mig at GL:

 

1.15ata auto rad 460km/h (~ Migs topspeed without boost)

1.3 ata auto rad 490 km/h

1.42 ata auto rad 500 km/h (radiator opening had a high impact at this point as my engine overheated)

Seems about what I found. That bring said, I can make the MiG go 495 in summer at SL for short sprints.

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Finkeren, the better acceleration seems fishy. Apart from that, i think you summed it up pretty good, and apart from the better acceleration it seems correct historically (don't know about roll rate in the Mig). Maybe i overreacted a little. But with your statements "same combat performance" you made me  :P  guess i am going to test this duel in duel server, before making anymore (possibly unjustified) comments.

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Haven't started the game yet, but I have noticed a few things already:

- Mission editor crashes a lot more often now. Annoying of course, but one can work around it after developing a CTRL-S compulsion.

- DServer seems to use more CPU. Not necessarily bad, depends on what these cycles are used for.

Ouch! that dserver cpu info hit where it hurts the most.
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And that's what i meant with rewriting history. All sources you can possibly find tell a complete different story..Mig being "outclassed" is the regular term you'll find

apart from that, i don't care too much.

I don't have to fly the F2, and every sane/unbiased mission designer will include the F4 for Battle of Moscow scenarios as well, so no point in flying the F2 if it isn't representing the supremacy it should have over Soviet planes at that time

Which mig, which serie... Which factory.. When... Where ? :)

 

Talking of mig 3 - yak 1 or any Russian plane, is pretty much a non sense given the disparity of quality, quite opposite to the standardized German planes.

 

Russian pilots did not even names the number of the "model" they were flying.... And said mig or yak or lagg. In Europe we say yak 1-3-9 as we say spit IX or 109 F2-4 etc... But for Russian pilots it would have been a total non sense regarding disparity of quality, and regarding the fact squadrons often flew a mix of several series of aircraft,

 

It has been said many times : late series mig were excellent aircraft, stopped development for political reason, no more.

 

Not arguing they were better than Friedrich... And I mean it, no debate here. This does not mean the best mig3 was not a very close match versus a standard F2.

 

Again, what you think you know from an European perspective has probably been biased towards 50 years of cold war prism, and the urgent need for Western democracy after war to look like they were the actual winners, and not the second role numbers and actual facts might suggest they were.

 

Any warfare material data we have about has to been taken very cautiously.... Some red pilots actually shot quite a lot of Friedrich in their mig.... When used properly, suggesting the difference of performance was not that large. And many sources do not even quote what version of mig was used....

Edited by =LAL=Trinkof
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Not arguing they were better than Friedrich... And I mean it, no debate here. This does not mean the best mig3 was not a very close match versus a standard F2.

The best Mig3? Definitely not doubting that! The average Mig for winter 41? Mhh...probably 10% below the Mig ingame in every aspect apart from high alt speed. I have an extract of 5 randomly taken Mig3s with their respective performance. Speeds have been between 455 and 490 at ground level. That would give you an average of 473.. of course the scientist could say those 5 aircraft from different periods and different setups (slats - no slats, etc) are not representative.

But i guess that's just how it is in game.

I am going to ignore the point about bias, because i think we all know, which country liked to whitewash it's own capabilities in every aspect the most in WW2....

 

 

 

Any warfare material data we have about has to been taken very cautiously.... Some red pilots actually shot quite a lot of Friedrich in their mig.... When used properly, suggesting the difference of performance was not that large. And many sources do not even quote what version of mig was used....

 

109s have also been shot down by Polish PZL, or Croatian biplanes. That doesn't tell us anything about their actual capabilities..in a huge furball there's gonna always be the situation, where even highly inferior planes get to shoot down an enemy

Edited by II./JG77_Manu*
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The best Mig3? Definitely not doubting that! The average Mig for winter 41? Mhh...probably 10% below the Mig ingame in every aspect apart from high alt speed. I have an extract of 5 randomly taken Mig3s with their respective performance. Speeds have been between 455 and 490 at ground level. That would give you an average of 473.. of course the scientist could say those 5 aircraft from different periods and different setups (slats - no slats, etc) are not representative.

But i guess that's just how it is in game.

I am going to ignore the point about bias, because i think we all know, which country liked to whitewash it's own capabilities in every aspect the most in WW2....

Indeed regarding performance, but as a video game, devi have to make something "standard", so I guess they took the optimal and "ideal performance" mig, probably not representing the average quality on Frontline service. And I will not blame them for that, because they had to choose, in a highly unbalanced scenario, we're shortage of fuel and maintenance issues which plagued LW during stalingrad cannot be represented.

 

As for the bias, I will even agree with you regarding red propaganda etc.... But I am trying to be the devil defender : it is quite easy to see the bias and propaganda in the "other side".... Much harder to see those in your side, especially when you (and I) have been educated in the opposite camp, reading books, novels, biography, tech data etc... All coming from our side.

 

"in order to determine the truth, you must doubt from anyone"

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Indeed regarding performance, but as a video game, devi have to make something "standard", so I guess they took the optimal and "ideal performance" mig, probably not representing the average quality on Frontline service. And I will not blame them for that, because they had to choose, in a highly unbalanced scenario, we're shortage of fuel and maintenance issues which plagued LW during stalingrad cannot be represented.

 

As for the bias, I will even agree with you regarding red propaganda etc.... But I am trying to be the devil defender : it is quite easy to see the bias and propaganda in the "other side".... Much harder to see those in your side, especially when you (and I) have been educated in the opposite camp, reading books, novels, biography, tech data etc... All coming from our side.

 

"in order to determine the truth, you must doubt from anyone"

agree with everything you said there

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agree with everything you said there

Cool, cause I did not want at all to be "agressive" or search to start a war here, just to be the "devil" defender, I feel it is important in order to have a balanced and compromised idea emerging from a debate!

 

No revisionism here, but I think red planes have MAYBE been better than we westerners thought they were. No super plane or war winners, but the difference of performance might have been more marginal than we usually thought. Not even sure of it, but doubt is allowed.

 

Thanks for the talk!

 

'S!

Edited by =LAL=Trinkof
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I honestly don't get what you're talking about.

 

It's not like the MiG is as good a fighter (or better for that matter) as the Bf 109F2 or even the E7.

 

The F2 has a very clear advantage over the MiG in the following areas:

 

- Climb rate at all altitudes

 

- Ease of handling, especially at lower speeds

 

- Overall ease of piloting

 

- Stability as a gun platform

 

- Durability (the MiG is fragile as hell)

 

- Maneuverability in all planes except rolling (very noticable at low and very high speeds)

 

- Maximum dive speed

 

- Sustained turn rate

 

- Easier take off and landing

 

The MiG pretty much has this:

 

- Better roll rate

 

- Better cockpit view

 

- Seems to have a slight advantage in acceleration

 

- Better performance (except climb) above 5000m

 

- Acceleration in a dive

 

- Gorgeous looks

 

 

Please dont add the last one in the list. its too subjective. ;)

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Ahem-Spit-Mk5...

 

[The Mig? OK, if you're - you know - trying to compensate for some sort of anatomical inadequacy...]

same goes for the two "parts" attached to the Spit's wings...they completely ruin the look of the plane for me :( i love Spits with "clean" wings however

Edited by II./JG77_Manu*
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same goes for the two "parts" attached to the Spit's wings...they completely ruin the look of the plane for me :( i love Spits with "clean" wings however

 

If you're referring to the "normal" wing, withouth a clipped wingtip or "extended wingtip", naturlich, mein freund!  :)

[if you're referring to the teeny-tiny cannon blisters... I think we can forgive a discrete bulge here or there!]

Edited by No601_Swallow
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Main points:

 

 

4. The Bf 109F2 fits nicely in between the E7 and F4 performance-wise. It is quite a bit slower than the F4 at all altitudes, there is nothing of that "rocket ship"-feeling. At combat power it really has no significant performance advantage over the MiG, even at low altitude. The default skin is beautiful, and even better, the plane model is completely compatible with custom F4 skins.

 

 

I wonder how many of you run this game with FPS setting >=120? the current default F2 skin's black and white spinner is too flashing and unrealistic at this setting, for me it's horrible. Seems development team change the methodology for this kind of spinner skin to make less blur on dynamic effect because peoples in the forum seldom complains this kind of treatment?

Edited by III/JG2Gustav05
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I really like the Pe2 and the fixed crew-death.. really nice to see them jump

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLbUo7yDC7Y

 

However I noticed that the transition of the 3d model on the newPe isn´t smooth as it is taken from the series 87

 

 

on the F2 I got to say that it feels very very light.. but is also a lot more fragile, things come off easyier. Only that I question myself: where there that many structural differences? I think not, so shouldn´t it be worse then the F4/g2 soo much in terms of structural weakness..

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Thanks Finkeren! Just the feedback I was hoping for. I for one do not understand why the developers introduce slight variances of existing planes when they could be putting their efforts into new planes like a P39. Anyone else feel this way or is it just me?

 

 

You might just have to get used to this sort of unremarkable "Meh" feeling that concerns me the most for the future of this sim.  There is either a great many current customers, or perhaps just a vocal few, that feel all these variants must be produced over any appreciable new content...just saying...

 

I am very happy to get 3 new planes that flesh out the current stable, however...the very idea that the Devs could release three aircraft today is an indicator of the effort it takes to tweak a current flight model and release a variant, and yet were are devoting a full release development cycle and paying full price for the privilege of flying the F-2, IL-2 1941, Pe-2 series 35.  It is my sincere hope that this is the most we see in terms of airplanes that differ very little from current models in game in any future release.

Edited by TheElf
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Finkeren, the better acceleration seems fishy. Apart from that, i think you summed it up pretty good, and apart from the better acceleration it seems correct historically (don't know about roll rate in the Mig). Maybe i overreacted a little. But with your statements "same combat performance" you made me :P guess i am going to test this duel in duel server, before making anymore (possibly unjustified) comments.

Oh, I think you misread me. I didn't say "combat performance" I was speaking specifically about speed and acceleration at "combat power setting" (for the F2) vs. "full power setting" (for the MiG)

 

In overall combat performance the 109F2 is still the better fighter, no question. But the gap in performance to the MiG is small enough that a competent MiG pilot can outfight a less skilled 109 jockey even without an energy advantage (something that cannot be said for the LaGG-3 and P-40 - at least not in my experience)

 

That's why I put the MiG as the second-best VVS fighter in BoM/BoS, behind the Yak-1 but slightly ahead of the La-5. But of course all of these are still inferior to the Bf 109 F2 through G2.

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This update made me pissed off more than anything. I really been patient with this sim, but the most important thing they had to fix was the defense of the bombers. Gunners witch do not response when ordered to fire at attacking targets and range , now do not do anything. There are no warnings when you got attacked.

The times they do react it is far too late. But in the post above , you can see why. It is all about fighters.

To me this sim make no sense anymore, it looks like the bombers are there just to please the fighters with easy targets, flying them online make absolutely no sense.

For the first time I got micro stutters, that after bringing settings from high to Balanced. So in terms of how much better it looks , I deem it even more of a challenge for a mediocre pc. 

And after this update I have no intention to upgrade, I really do not like the way this is going. No matter witch server you choose it si a dogfight server

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