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Engine management not nessesary...


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And what I mean by that is engine management seems completely pointless for certain Soviet warplanes... namely, Lagg, Yak and Pe-2...

 

I mean, I literally just throw the rpm and throttle full forward at 100% and just keep it there for the entire flight... I don't even ease up all that much during sustained dives, maybe decrease it to 70-80 percent in a really steep dive but nothing else.  

 

I'm just wondering... how realistic is this? Are Soviet engines just such beasts that you can just max out RPM and throttle and just ignore managing your engine throughout the entire flight without worrying about pushing your engine too hard or mistreating it? I know that it's not fuel-efficient to keep it at 100% but is that all that would happen in a real Yak-Lagg-Pe2? Nothing bad, just wasting fuel managing your engine badly?

Edited by Xenunjeon88
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The russian engines quit less than 5 minutes after overheating. I think this is ok. The german engines, mainly the 109, did have time limits in the books. They have been implemented, and cause the engines to quit much earlier, even if not overheated. This design decision is questionable, because the limits have been set for the longer life of the engines. They didn´t quit, if those limits were exceeded. I guess the russian pilots did use precaution, although no time limits have been written down. Perhaps the difference of russian and german engines might be too sharp modelled in the sim. But it is not "wrong", if you go according the books.

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Meanwhile its worst case scenario for BF-109 at all times.

 

You Will break your engine doing this in a 109 very quickly (under 2 minutes), its happened to me in under 1 minute multiple times throughout various versions of the game.

 

With Soviet plane, you don't need instruments or fancy things to be sure plane is ok. full throttle / forget about engine management. all will be ok! Its Soviet design

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depends on what settings, if you are talking about "fast food" MP fights on normal servers, yes.

 

But on full real missions, the situation is a bit more complicated. On a Yak-1, 10 minutes at 100% throttle/RPM will use up around 140 liters or 35% of your total fuel, so on longer missions, you have to balance your throttle/RPM settings to make sure you have enough fuel to complete your mission objectives and land safely back at your base.

 

You also want to make sure your engine is as cool as possible if you get into a dogfight so you can get the maximum performance out of it when required, which again means balancing throttle/RPM/Oil rad/water rad settings.

Edited by Sgt_Joch
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Russian pilots were known to push the RPM lever all the way forward and leave it there. This is confirmed in interviews with several veterans.

 

 

That may or may not be true, I don't know, but it sounds completely counterintuitive; at least to me.  I'd have thought a motor would have to be built to an extremely high standard if it was to survive for any length of time while operating at it's upper rev limit (unless of course that motor came with an inbuilt rev limiter)    

 

Are you suggesting that Soviet factories built better engines in the early '40s than the Germans - that is to say, engines that were better engineered with higher tolerances?  Is that really what you're suggesting?  Really?  Really???

Edited by Wulf
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No need to fight Wulf - some pilots did say they controlled the engine only via throttle with the prop pitch on the wall. The rest however repudiated this attitude and said pilots needed to learn how to squeeze every inch of performance from their aircraft, engine management included. The oft-quoted Golodnikov said he preferred to fly the P-39 on manual prop pitch because he felt the automatic response was too slow and he noticed he could get a little better performance by doing that.

 

That being said, flying with the pitch floored still means they kept the engines within operational temperatures - else they would be dead. It does sound a little short-sighted but if I remember correctly the pilot who said that was a mechanic quickly drafted into fighter training on his wish, who then underwent accelerated training and was sent to the front.

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No need to fight Wulf - some pilots did say they controlled the engine only via throttle with the prop pitch on the wall. The rest however repudiated this attitude and said pilots needed to learn how to squeeze every inch of performance from their aircraft, engine management included. The oft-quoted Golodnikov said he preferred to fly the P-39 on manual prop pitch because he felt the automatic response was too slow and he noticed he could get a little better performance by doing that.

 

That being said, flying with the pitch floored still means they kept the engines within operational temperatures - else they would be dead. It does sound a little short-sighted but if I remember correctly the pilot who said that was a mechanic quickly drafted into fighter training on his wish, who then underwent accelerated training and was sent to the front.

 

 

Hey bro, I come in peace, as always.  And I'm not trying to crash anyone's party.I just find it difficult to understand how you can 'floor' a Russian motor and everything's cool, but if you do the same thing with a German motor, and you're getting roughly the same sort of performance, it fails after a just a few minutes.  I mean, isn't that a bit ...you know, weird, given what we know about German engineering?

And I mean, I don't really know, cos I'm not an 'engine guy'** (this has been established previously) but, I'd have thought overheating was just one of your problems.  Unless your engine has been 'balanced' very carefully I'd have thought the thing would probably start to come apart if it was left at full throttle for too long.

 

(** However I'll just say that I did once have this really hot little 1969 Mini Cooper S.  I had the 1275 A series motor re-built.  It had all the usual stuff done (ported and polished head, really lumpy cam, lightened fly wheel, race pistons, peened rods, 45 side draft Weber on a nice straight inlet manifold, 3 into one exhaust and a straight-cut gearbox etc etc.  It delivered over 95 hp at the wheels and revved out to - 8K!!.  It was so loud in the cockpit that normal conversation was impossible and you had to drive it with ear plugs.  It was the most fun I've ever had in a car.  Wish I still had it.   :( ) 

Edited by Wulf
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I just find it difficult to understand how you can 'floor' a Russian motor and everything's cool

 

I really think you underestimate Russian engine  technology of the 30's and 40's, take for example the 2500hp  Dobrynin M-250 water-cooled  24 cylinder engine of 1941, in development from 1939 it was not followed up properly after evacuation and relocation of the factory in October 1941 due to advancing German forces

 

post-6177-0-50821200-1451696998_thumb.jpg

Intended for IL-2 it would have been interesting, none were ever fitted to an aircraft but the prototypes were successful, due to the relocation of the factory to OKB-36 (Opytno-Konstruktorskoye Byuro-36 or Experimental Design Bureau-36) in Rybinsk, and splitting up of the design team it was only really developed after the war, eventually into the M-253K  VD-4K producing 4300hp and was probably the most powerful piston engine ever fitted and flown in an aircraft (Tupolev T-85)

 

post-6177-0-33651000-1451697890_thumb.jpg

 

While the Tu-85 and its VD-4K engines achieved excellent test results, the Tupolev Tu-95  turboprop bomber was under development and showed greater promise

 

Although probably not as durable or as advanced as similar German engines, consider that 129,000 Klimov M-105 engines (Lagg/Yak/Pe-2) were produced, a shorter life and abuse/high wear were tolerated due to massive production from 42 onward, so long as temperature limits were considered it was rated to run 'flat out' and had counterbalanced crankshaft, an improvement on design from the Hispano-Suiza 12Y it was based on, although mass produced in some very basic factories it was far from a crude Russian 'tractor engine'

 

Cheers Dakpilot

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Educating masses is difficult and after X time repeating the same.With M105PF if you could keep coolant temperatures within limits it was max continuous power output at 2550rpm 1st supercharger and 2700rpm 2nd stage unlimited/until your fuel tanks dryed out.There was no WEP/over boosting.

 

Taking into account radial M-82,with its F variant,the previous model boost (limit 5-10min) became max continuous.Read some books prior creating yet another BS thread.

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I disagree. The G2 is virtually fool proof, and the F4 is fast enough I don't feel the need to push the throttle for more than a few seconds, if at all.

 

My death in 109s comes from my own decisions not engine failure.

 

I only have experience of the Emil offline, so that might be different, but I can fight the AI BoM fighters without engine issues.

I should have specified, I meant the BF-109 F4, have not flown the G2 much at all. That being said the AI is not a problem for me either, but when it gets to multiplayer I just find it odd to have such strict limits that seem to be more strict than they were in real life

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Total  during 7 year production run (37-43) was of 19,000 DB601 engines,

 

it was probable that engine limits were more strictly enforced in Luftwaffe, it was not so much a 'throw-away' engine as many others, even DB605 had 42.000 produced, and in many ways was built from less sophisticated components/materials, it was considered much less durable than DB601 all through design improvements until the end of the war

 

Cheers Dakpilot

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Educating masses is difficult and after X time repeating the same.With M105PF if you could keep coolant temperatures within limits it was max continuous power output at 2550rpm 1st supercharger and 2700rpm 2nd stage unlimited/until your fuel tanks dryed out.There was no WEP/over boosting.

 

Taking into account radial M-82,with its F variant,the previous model boost (limit 5-10min) became max continuous.Read some books prior creating yet another BS thread.

 

Okay, sorry for interrupting your holiday and compelling you to deal with one of the 'great unwashed' but you have me at a serious disadvantage here.  I only have one reference work to go by and that's Gordon and Khazanov's Soviet Combat Aircraft of the Second World War.  Now, I don't know what these guys 'been smokin', but they make the following comments about the Yak 1 and the M-105PF motor that appear at odds with your assurances:

 

"The oil overheating noted [during the Yak 1's very] first flight [and therefore before the development and installation of the boosted version of the  M-105] remained incurable, although the system was redesigned numerous times" (P 123)

 

"In hot weather, [once the boosted M-105PF engine was installed] flight with the radiator intake fully closed for maximum speed could be maintained for only two minutes, after which time the water and oil exceeded the permitted limits.   A boosted climb was also impossible because it was necessary to return to level flight to restore normal engine operating temperatures" (P 124) 

 

"Take-off performance also appeared to be improved [after the installation of the M-105PF] At the same time, the augmented engine suffered from water and oil overheating.  To keep the temperatures within permitted limits the normal RPM had to be reduced from 2700 to 2400-2500, which negated all the advantages of boost augmentation" (p 124)

 

 

Anyway, when you can make the time, please feel free to set the record straight.  Thanks man, much obliged. 

Edited by Wulf
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The part you quoted by Brano says 'if you could keep the coolant temperatures within limits"

 

you then quote a sentence from a book talking about flying with the rads shut

 

In game the Yak overheats too,

 

Your point was that a Russian engine should self destruct, because for some reason it cannot be built/designed as well as a German one

 

handy fact, when the DB601A was introduced it had almost identical performance to Hispano-Suiza 12Y-51, except the Hispano was 300lbs lighter, also the Hispano military rating and take-off rating are the same at 1100hp, whilst the DB601 military rating is 1000hp and take-off is 1150 hp, leading to the hypothosis that even in its earliest iteration the Klimov M-105 was designed to run 'flat out'

 

thanks man much obliged, seems like you are arguing with yourself, about a subject you freely admit that you know little about

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Edited by Dakpilot
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And the Russian police is all out again  :lol:  It's getting really ridiculous, you can't start any thread at all these days, which questions anything Russian related, without getting reviled by the two same guys again and again. Forum police at it's best. OP just raised normal questions, without assuming or concluding anything. 

Yet, you have to read stuff like 

 

Read some books prior creating yet another BS thread.

 

 

Your point was that a Russian engine should self destruct, because for some reason it cannot be built/designed as well as a German one

worst kind of twisting somebody's every words.

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And the Russian police is all out again  :lol:  It's getting really ridiculous, you can't start any thread at all these days, which questions anything Russian related, without getting reviled by the two same guys again and again. Forum police at it's best. OP just raised normal questions, without assuming or concluding anything. 

Yet, you have to read stuff like 

 

 

 

worst kind of twisting somebody's every words

 

 

Did you actually read Wulf's posts in this thread? and many of his others?

 

The trouble is when someone says something that is simply not true and very much based on myth and mis-information, if left unanswered the myth is continued

 

If someone said something in the same manner about German aircraft I would respond in the same way, the OP did ask in a reasonable manner and was answered reasonably and got some good info

 

someone else derailed the thread as usual, is that what i am really suggesting?  Really?  Really???

 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Edited by Dakpilot
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Manu, with all due respect there is way too much 'it's Russian therefore it must be bad', usually from people who are not well informed at all on the subject yet spread that the developers have some sort of 'Russian bias' because all of a sudden the über German engineering isn't beating the Soviet aircraft some believe to be crop-dusters 10/10 times. Then once those who are actually well-informed on the subject come to clarify (for the millionth time on the same subjects and in response to often the same people) you accuse them of being Russian police and twisting words? :)

 

Just keep in mind you have as much right to raise questions about Russian aircraft as they have to answer, and I have to say I have learned a ton of things from Brano and Dakpilot that I would never have on a usual day, and this is for the very same reason their replies are well-placed: they know what they're talking about, and use good information from reliable sources.

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That may or may not be true, I don't know, but it sounds completely counterintuitive; at least to me.  I'd have thought a motor would have to be built to an extremely high standard if it was to survive for any length of time while operating at it's upper rev limit (unless of course that motor came with an inbuilt rev limiter)

 

 

Did you use propeller pitch control?

 

Rarely. Most commonly we would push pitch control all the way forward, and then only used throttle.

 

Were there any limitations for engine resource?

 

I never heard of any limitations. If an engine worked out it’s resource, it was changed immediately. After that you had to test fly your plane for at least 5 hours, otherwise you will not be allowed to the combat mission. In 1944 we were sitting at Kummolovo airbase, from the mid of May, I think. Then, for 2 or 3 day at the same time an unknown plane was circling around our base. Belyaev ordered me:

– Tikhomirov! Either land him at our base or shoot him down! 

I took off and show to the pilot – land! He shows me - no! I show him that I’m gonna shoot him down! He landed and explained everything. Between Habolovskoye and Babinskoye lakes there was an airfield, and there were some Army pilots there, who flew uncommon planes – Kittyhawks or Hurricanes, I forgot now. He got engine changed, and was flying for those 5 hours.

 
 

— About engine control. Germans had Kommandogerat, and La’s pilot had to manually change prop pitch, close cowls and stuff…

 

We had no problems… We mostly operated speed only by throttle. If we would fly on the rout separated controls were better… If you do not want problems in flight – you have to know how to fly!

 

 

http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/pilots/kardopoltsev/kardopoltsev.htm

 

— Suggest, you saw an enemy, what was your actions? One hand on the stick, other on throttle? How you controlled prop blade pitch?

 

What for? I enter a fight with everything ready. There was no time for pitch control, move it to the front all the way… Only throttle and cannons. Start maneuvering as much as your strength allows you. So much that your head would spin.

 

 

http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/pilots/nasilevec/nasilevec.htm

Edited by LukeFF
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Manu, with all due respect there is way too much 'it's Russian therefore it must be bad', usually from people who are not well informed at all on the subject yet spread that the developers have some sort of 'Russian bias' because all of a sudden the über German engineering isn't beating the Soviet aircraft some believe to be crop-dusters 10/10 times. Then once those who are actually well-informed on the subject come to clarify (for the millionth time on the same subjects and in response to often the same people) you accuse them of being Russian police and twisting words? :)

 

Just keep in mind you have as much right to raise questions about Russian aircraft as they have to answer, and I have to say I have learned a ton of things from Brano and Dakpilot that I would never have on a usual day, and this is for the very same reason their replies are well-placed: they know what they're talking about, and use good information from reliable sources.

 

 

Okay, lets just quickly summarize the sequence of events.

 

  • The OP asks: "Are Soviet engines just such beasts that you can just max out RPM and throttle and just ignore managing your engine throughout the entire flight without worrying about pushing your engine too hard or mistreating it?"

 

  • Black Devil then notes that "German engines, mainly the 109, did have time limits in the books. He suggests these have been implemented, and cause the engines to quit much earlier[than their Russian counterparts], even if not overheated."

 

  • Luke then states that "Russian pilots were known to push the RPM lever all the way forward and leave it there." He then goes on to state that "this is confirmed in interviews with several veterans."

 

  • I then pitch in because, to my way of thinking, if a German engine can only run at full tit for 5 minutes whereas its Russian counterpart can be flown in a maxed-out state all day long - then the Russian engine must be better engineered.  So I ask the question: is this realistic in 1941-42?  (and of course, it's not.  Post WW1 soviet Russia was not noted for it's engineering excellence or innovation) 

 

  • Lucas then accuses me of fighting -presumably because I asked a question

 

  • I back up my question with some references from two acclaimed Soviet aviation historians.  These are dismissed out of hand by Dak.

 

  • Lucas then cautions Manu and then goes on to revel himself to be totally smitten by Dak and Brano.

 

WTF!

 

Edited by Wulf
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Some interpretation of events :)

 

For the record, Soviet aviation was in fact renowned for its innovation after WWI, with the Polikarpov, Tupolev and Ilyushin bureaus at the forefront, and many record-setters like Chkalov.

 

Also, Yefim Gordon while a great source has some imperfections in his work - nothing major of course, only a couple of details here and there that the biggest nitpickers will verify as some many recall from the MiG-21 DCS team which was headed by a MiG-21 pilot who pointed out a few discrepancies. Again, nothing major but when you go down to the detail in a discussion it can make a difference.

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That may or may not be true, I don't know, but it sounds completely counterintuitive; at least to me.  I'd have thought a motor would have to be built to an extremely high standard if it was to survive for any length of time while operating at it's upper rev limit (unless of course that motor came with an inbuilt rev limiter)    

 

Are you suggesting that Soviet factories built better engines in the early '40s than the Germans - that is to say, engines that were better engineered with higher tolerances?  Is that really what you're suggesting?  Really?  Really???

 

+

 

Hey bro, I come in peace, as always.  And I'm not trying to crash anyone's party.I just find it difficult to understand how you can 'floor' a Russian motor and everything's cool, but if you do the same thing with a German motor, and you're getting roughly the same sort of performance, it fails after a just a few minutes.  I mean, isn't that a bit ...you know, weird, given what we know about German engineering?

And I mean, I don't really know, cos I'm not an 'engine guy'** (this has been established previously) but, I'd have thought overheating was just one of your problems.  Unless your engine has been 'balanced' very carefully I'd have thought the thing would probably start to come apart if it was left at full throttle for too long.

 

I think the main issue here is maybe a misunderstanding by those who predominantly fly German aircraft about how the Russian engine management works.

 

Because of the constant speed propellor system by setting the RPM controller to max you are not 'flooring the engine'. It is possible to have the RPM control set to max with throttle near idle and the plane sitting stationary on the runway. In this case the manifold pressure is very low.

 

It is the position of the throttle that will govern the manifold pressure and the strain on the engine.

 

So I could understand that to keep things simple some Russian pilots may have just set the RPM gov to max and adjusted everything on the throttle. It would be completely possible to do this and manage engine temps / stress solely by throttle. Probably not the 'textbook' approach though.

 

Reading back over the posts above I think THIS is the problem here. It's not about relevant engineering quality of the engines - that is a red herring.

 

Also my recent personal experience in the game has been with tech tips turned on and I get regular warnings in the Lagg and il-2 about engine temps being high - and then have to open rads further and reduce RPM/throttle. Will try with tech tips turned off I think. Remember blowing engines quite often before the tech tips were brought in.

Edited by kendo
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I think the main issue here is maybe a misunderstanding by those who predominantly fly German aircraft about how the Russian engine management works.

 

Because of the constant speed propellor system by setting the RPM controller to max you are not 'flooring the engine'. It is possible to have the RPM control set to max with throttle near idle and the plane sitting stationary on the runway. In this case the manifold pressure is very low.

 

It is the position of the throttle that will govern the manifold pressure and the strain on the engine.

 

So I could understand that to keep things simple some Russian pilots may have just set the RPM gov to max and adjusted everything on the throttle. It would be completely possible to do this and manage engine temps / stress solely by throttle. Probably not the 'textbook' approach though.

 

Reading back over the posts above I think THIS is the problem here. It's not about relevant engineering quality of the engines - that is a red herring.

 

 

You may well be right.  I'd typically follow that up with a few questions, just to clarify the situation, but I fear Lucas will probably accuse me of war crimes or something. 

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Okay, lets just quickly summarize the sequence of events.

 

  • I then pitch in because, to my way of thinking, if a German engine can only run at full tit for 5 minutes whereas its Russian counterpart can be flown in a maxed-out state all day long - then the Russian engine must be better engineered.  So I ask the question: is this realistic in 1941-42?  (and of course, it's not.  Post WW1 soviet Russia was not noted for it's engineering excellence or innovation) 

 

Your way of thinking yet again shows your prejudice and lack of technical knowledge and of aviation history, 

 

Lack of knowledge is not an issue, refusal to accept some facts is

 

Cheers Dakpilot

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I'm just wondering... how realistic is this? Are Soviet engines just such beasts that you can just max out RPM and throttle and just ignore managing your engine throughout the entire flight without worrying about pushing your engine too hard or mistreating it?
About what realism do you say?
IRL M-105PF had to be working for 100 hours (oficial resource) and in game for about 40 minutes (average flight duration). 
BTW before production of the M-105PF was started, engine was tested on the stand and was working for about 200 hrs with full boost. AFAIK devs have the report about this testing.

 

 

http://www.airwar.ru/enc/fww2/yak1-105pf.html

Точку в споре поставили стендовые испытания М-105ПА с наддувом 1050 мм рт.ст., которые начались 24 апреля 1942 г. Мотор успешно их выдержал, проработав до разрушения 203 ч. По постановлению ГКО от 30 апреля 1942 г. завод ╧ 26 (г. Уфа) с 1 мая перешел на выпуск моторов М-105ПФ, как начали называть серийные моторы с повышенным наддувом.

 

Edited by NobbyNobbs
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Your way of thinking yet again shows your prejudice and lack of technical knowledge and of aviation history, 

 

Lack of knowledge is not an issue, refusal to accept some facts is

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

 

[Edited]

 

ENOUGH of this kind of rhetoric. If you cannot make points about such matters without reverting to comments about political ideologies then do not post on it at all.

Edited by Bearcat
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OMG, That's really rich coming from an old-school Soviet apologist.    

 

 

Machines know no nation or patriotism.  There have been plenty of direct and informative replies to your posts and the OP's original question, feel free to reply to those rather than cherry picking to create dramatics.

Edited by Silas
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Mr.Wulf,if you think that calling me and others Russian police and such will touch my soul and make me cry,your wrong.

Serious researcher always study several sources,compares them and makes his own conclusions. I have 5 books on yaks,2 of them military tech.descriptions written by those that developed and tested the aircraft. You have one line taken out of context which you repeat on and on like scratched vinyl record.

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OMG, That's really rich coming from an old-school Soviet apologist.    

 

Aircraft, Engines, designers and technicians have no part in politics (except for a few well known examples (from all countries) who used political influence  to further their companies futures 

 

How does giving details of aircraft engines make me an apologist for Stalin, one of the most evil dictators in history, your views show a remarkable example of xenophobia 

 

Cheers Dakpilot

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Okay, sorry for interrupting your holiday and compelling you to deal with one of the 'great unwashed' but you have me at a serious disadvantage here.  I only have one reference work to go by and that's Gordon and Khazanov's Soviet Combat Aircraft of the Second World War.  Now, I don't know what these guys 'been smokin', but they make the following comments about the Yak 1 and the M-105PF motor that appear at odds with your assurances:

 

"The oil overheating noted [during the Yak 1's very] first flight [and therefore before the development and installation of the boosted version of the  M-105] remained incurable, although the system was redesigned numerous times" (P 123)

 

 

These quotes are true, but taken out of context. The first refers to the Yak prototype, oil overheating was incurable, but only on the prototype, not production ac.

 

"In hot weather, [once the boosted M-105PF engine was installed] flight with the radiator intake fully closed for maximum speed could be maintained for only two minutes, after which time the water and oil exceeded the permitted limits.   A boosted climb was also impossible because it was necessary to return to level flight to restore normal engine operating temperatures" (P 124) 

 

"Take-off performance also appeared to be improved [after the installation of the M-105PF] At the same time, the augmented engine suffered from water and oil overheating.  To keep the temperatures within permitted limits the normal RPM had to be reduced from 2700 to 2400-2500, which negated all the advantages of boost augmentation" (p 124)

 

 

Again, this quote does not refer to the in game M-105PF, but to experiments carried out on the earlier production M-105P engine. It was found that you could increase HP by increasing boost, but that this led to overheating issues. This was partly solved in the production AC we have in game by installing better oil coolers.

 

However, in game on the summer map, closing the oil/water radiators will cause the temp to skyrocket and you can get an overheat warning in only 1 minute. That is the real limiting factor, the difference between fully open and closed Rads can be as high as 25+ kmh.

 

As to what Soviet pilots were recommended to do, here is the official pilot manual:

 

 

74. To achieve the maximum speed (when you met with the enemy, to make pursuit, 

for air combat or out of it) should do following steps: 

  

a) close the mixture;

 

b) at all altitudes set the revs at 2650-2700 rpm; if the engine expels oil, reduce rpm to 

2,550 rpm; 

  

c) close the water and oil radiators, fixing in position "with the flow"; 

  

d) flying above 3,000 m with M-105Pa engine and above 2000m with M-105PF 

engine, put the second stage supercharger. 

 

https://www.docdroid.net/gmjm/yak-manual.pdf.html

 

edit: just did a quick QMB on the summer map. dogfighting in a Yak1, 100% RPM/Throttle, keeping Oil/Water rad fully open, the water temp will go from 70 to 115 c in 4 minute flat and you get a overheat warning.

 

If anything, I would say the Devs are modeling the overheating issues with the Yak worse than they were in RL, not better.

Edited by Sgt_Joch
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These quotes are true, but taken out of context. The first refers to the Yak prototype, oil overheating was incurable, but only on the prototype, not production ac.

 

 

Again, this quote does not refer to the in game M-105PF, but to experiments carried out on the earlier production M-105P engine. It was found that you could increase HP by increasing boost, but that this led to overheating issues. This was partly solved in the production AC we have in game by installing better oil coolers.

 

However, in game on the summer map, closing the oil/water radiators will cause the temp to skyrocket and you can get an overheat warning in only 1 minute. That is the real limiting factor, the difference between fully open and closed Rads can be as high as 25+ kmh.

 

As to what Soviet pilots were recommended to do, here is the official pilot manual:

 

 

https://www.docdroid.net/gmjm/yak-manual.pdf.html

 

 

Where do Gordon and Khazanov say the overheating issues with the Yak 1 were resolved?  I'll help you out there, they don't.  There's nothing in the text that I have read to suggest that solutions were found and then subsequently incorporated into later series production Yak 1s.  That, presumably, is why they describe the overheating problems as being "incurable" rather than just one of the many teething problems identified in the  prototype.  To suggest otherwise is absurd.

 

So unless you can come up with some actual references from the book, to prove what you say, it just becomes wishful thinking on your part doesn't it Joch.

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Mr.Wulf,if you think that calling me and others Russian police and such will touch my soul and make me cry,your wrong.

Serious researcher always study several sources,compares them and makes his own conclusions. I have 5 books on yaks,2 of them military tech.descriptions written by those that developed and tested the aircraft. You have one line taken out of context which you repeat on and on like scratched vinyl record.

 

 

I laughed when I read it but I didn't come up with the phrase, it was someone else.  What is more, my reference to 'Soviet apologist' was directed at Dak, not you, so why when someone uses the term you should immediately assume it's intended for you I can only speculate on.  However, if the term fits then all well and good. Wear it with pride.

 

I'm still waiting for your response to the extracts from Gordon and Khazanov.  Unlike my earlier comment, they were, in fact, directed at you but for some reason you appear to have overlooked the fact.

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Wulf I do believe that the one book that you have read about Yak 1 is probably not the ONLY material on the subject of Klimov M105 development and the Yak 1 

 

I am fairly sure there are other sources as well...also your interpretation of what is said  in your book quote seems very strange as pointed out by Sgt_Joch

 

Cheers Dakpilot

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Blimey.  This got boring quickly. :(   Anyway, sod all the personal stuff.  I wanna' hear more about getting an A series engine to rev to 8k!!! :o:   

 

 

I loved that bloody car.  It wasn't all that fast, (maybe it did 165 k/ph or so on a straight) but it was a serious weapon on hills.  OMG yes.

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Wulf I do believe that the one book that you have read about Yak 1 is probably not the ONLY material on the subject of Klimov M105 development and the Yak 1 

 

I am fairly sure there are other sources as well...also your interpretation of what is said  in your book quote seems very strange as pointed out by Sgt_Joch

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

No, there's nothing "out of context" about them.  Read the book if you don't believe me or, provide some contradictory material from another 'reputable' source, if you can.   And please, no old wartime Soviet propaganda.

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