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Mig 3 - First Impressions


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It does very annoyed me .. I found the 3D modeling little bit mediocre. Sorry guys to break it down but somehow I am disappointed.  Those  canopy sharp bolts/rivets are just too much. who wants sharp things in a cockpit ? I maybe completely wrong but this is the MiG-3 from IL2 BoM that they used as model. and I wonder which model exactly did they use. New aircraft is not necessary good..  if we report what is wrong they may fix it.  I do not want even talk about the Yak it is a disaster. 

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Edited by GOZR
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I got BoM premium today! However, I have only been able to open the game and make sure it works. The suspense is killing me :(

It's so good :)

 

And the MiG-3 was totally worth the wait... its a bit quirky to fly (expected) but it has such speed and the flexibility in firepower really makes it an interesting type to be in the air with. I'm excited to see the rest of the lineup and the new Moscow map in 2016!

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Been flying it for a while now and I have to say I love it. The takeoff isn't as bad as I thought it would be from reading about it here. I'm just hoping that starter tooth will grow on me because it looks kinda weird.

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Been flying it for a while now and I have to say I love it. The takeoff isn't as bad as I thought it would be from reading about it here. I'm just hoping that "starter tooth" will grow on me because it looks kinda weird.

what is that meaning?

 

another 10,000meter fight.

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When you select either 2xUB or 2xShVak in the nose it adds a starter tooth on the tip of the spinner. To me it looks kinda weird and not like the ones seen in wartime photos.

 

MiGs with a starter tooth did exist, but they're rare in wartime photos (which is propably an indicator that they were rare in real life as well)

 

A couple of examples:

rubtzov.jpg white12fr.jpgpost-13181-0-72285100-1451030143_thumb.jpg

 

For some reason they appear much more often in artwork, scale models and computer games. I think it's just become a way of indicating a late production MiG, even though it's not really representative of that either.

 

The starter tooth apparently started to be added to some MiGs late in its service life. I don't think I've ever seen a good explanation as to why it was added, other than presumably some MiGs had trouble starting their engines without assistance? :unsure:  :unsure:  :unsure:

 

I have a personal idea, that might be the explanation though (WARNING: This is pure speculation on my part) I think the MIGs with starter tooth could be examples that were re-engined with AM-38s, based on the fact that photos of them are really rare and that virtually all IL-2s with AM-38 engines have a starter tooth.

 

In BoM I think they chose to include the starter tooth simply to have an easy way to visually identify an up-gunned MiG-3, even though it's not strictly speaking historically accurate. In real life there was virtually no way of telling, what cowling armament a MiG carried. Some have even suggested, that the central gun port (which weren't in use on UBS or ShVAK armed MiGs) might not even have been covered, like it is in the BoM model, making the up-gunned MiGs completely imposible to distiguish.

Edited by Finkeren
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Some further thoughts having spent some quality time with the MiG, mostly offline with the occassional stint into MP: 

 

1. This aircraft is nothing but fun to fly. I literally haven't touched the controls of any other plane since the patch came out.

 

2. As a fighter it's a lot more capable than it's initially letting on. I would name it second amongst the VVS aircraft after the Yak in terms of dogfighting qualities. Its great acceleration and pleasant handling in the 350 - 550 kph range makes it a great dogfighter. Not quite the equal of the Bf 109 F4 and G2 but close enough.

 

3. The effective cooling and simple CEM makes it quite easy to get the best performance compared to for instance the La-5.

 

4. It winter it's a god**** beast! The power boost and generally faster speeds at which fights take place benefit it tremendously. On top of that you can run the engine with almost no radiator all day long.

 

5. With upgraded armament it's a potent bomber killer, provided you don't expose yourself to counter fire.

 

6. In this plane the maxim "altitude is life" is more true than ever. Your first priority should always be to get as much air beneath you as posible.

 

7. It seems really fragile, perhaps too fragile? The wings come off really easily (there seems to be a pattern of newly released aircraft having "glass wings", the Bf 109s, the Fw 190 and now the Bf 110 and and MiG) and virtually every time I get hit, the result is catastrophic damage. Of couse, that can partly be explained by the very small, compact airframe, where the pilot and engine take up a considerably larger portion of the entire aircraft than on larger planes. Still, I think a DM review might be in order.

 

8. Proper trimming helps a lot in gaining stability and reducing energy loss in maneuvers (well, that goes for all aircraft, but it seems particularly important here)

 

9. In a BoM scenario it might actually dominate, especially in winter. It already can play on an almost even footing with the Bf 109G2 in winter and outclasses the E7 - even at low altitude, so who knows how it might compare with the F2?

 

10. As great as the overall modelling work is, I have to agree with people like GOZR, that the perspective makes some parts of the pit look oddly proportioned. The cockpit looks "too large" somehow. I don't know what creates that effect, but it's not just head position as can easily be confirmed just by moving your head around with TrackIR. 

 

11. And the last and most important lesson: Don't ever go slow in the MiG! Below 250 kph it's a sitting duck and can do absolutely nothing well.

 

Well, does my appreciation for the MiG mean, that I'm now a crack pilot and totally dominate online? Far from it. The MiG being great doesn't change the fact, that I'm a pretty sloppy pilot and regularly get my *** handed to me in MP. Also: Apart from the CEM, this is not an easy plane to master, proper energy management is not simple in the MiG and getting good climb performance in any given situation still feels like hit-and-miss to me. Still, after only a couple of days I feel a lot more confident in the MiG than in any other VVS fighter apart from the Yak, and I hope we'll soon see true BoM servers pop up, where every single opponent isn't a damn Bf 109F4. There it might better show its qualities.

Edited by Finkeren
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If you'd put the MiG second to the Yak, then what of the LA-5?

It's a personal preference. I know that some people can do great things with the La-5. I just can't.

 

Also: I genuinely believe, that the La-5 is more unforgiving and more difficult to get the best performance out of than the MiG.

 

In terms of pure numbers, sure, the La-5 is better, but as to how it handles in a fight, I much prefer the MiG.

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Just wanna bump my question. Which load out of the Mig gives best performance.. Obviously adding the gunpods adds weight and more drag so. However which out of the other weapon variants is the lightest and will give best climb and speed.  I am thinking the 2x BS as maybe two smaller guns are lighter than the two 20mm option and the 1xBS and 2x Shkas machine guns...            Anyone done any tests? 

Edited by Bullets
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The La-5 is nearly the complete opposite of the Mig. Tha La-5 shines down low with forzah where the Mig is short of spectacular in terms of speed while the La runs into trouble at 3km and higher where the Mig, still not reaching it's peak performence, starts to take over. The only thing similar with the 2 is their good roll rate.

 

It's similar to the Fw 190 vs Bf-109 debate. No one really sta´nds out as a clear winner and with the right mindset and tactics both can be great.

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I simply hate fighter duty, go around patrolling , minding your own business and WHAM someone blast you out of the sky just when you whereat looking. All the waiting and seeing. 

The other day I was testing this bird at 5,5 K and my wife went by and we talked for 20 sec. well maybe 45 sec. And when I turn back my attention I see firework all around the canopy.

But If I where to fly fighter again I fly the MIG . I like the Russian planes, they all got their special attitude, except from the YAK , it feels like a BF 109, = no feeling what so ever. it just do what it´s told. No sudden shakes or grunt´s of unwillingness , all forgiving. I want a plane that kills you if it does not like what you are doing. The MIG just best at that

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Interesting points...  
I've always read it was a rather "dog" down low though, and not very maneuverable. Perhaps it was another myth that needed to be busted.

It was a cool looking bird as well, so, after the C.202 and I-16, it may probably become one of my favorite :)
I can't wait to get home in January and try it myself... Still a long time to wait , argh.

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Interesting points...

I've always read it was a rather "dog" down low though, and not very maneuverable. Perhaps it was another myth that needed to be busted.

Depends on what you mean by "maneuverable". Its turn performance isn't great, and at low speed it's rather useless overall. Once you get it above 350 kph however, it really starts to shine with overall agility and especially roll rate better than the 109s.

 

At high speeds the controls start to stiffen up, and at 600 suddenly the Fw 190 is the greatest threat.

 

The strong point of the MiG IMHO lies in the great high altitude performance, awesome acceleration and high agility at the right speed. Combined with a great FOV and easy CEM makes a fighter that isn't easy to master but lets you focus on the all important energy management.

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and I hope we'll soon see true BoM servers pop up, where every single opponent isn't a damn Bf 109F4. There it might better show its qualities.

 

But you know, if you make a historical correct server, the F4 should be in anyway. It was deployed to front lines earlier then late Mig3..in fact the percentage of F4 in the Luftwaffe during the attacks surrounding Moscow (not talking about the city bomber defense) was way higher then the percentage of Migs in the VVS...

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I think F-2s and F-4s should be present indeed, though I must note that while if you are correct the percentage of MiGs in the VVS was smaller than F-4s in the Luftwaffe by the time Moscow was under siege, the MiG-3 was omnipresent in Moscow. Most of this is due to MiGs being produced right there in Moscow at Vnukovo, thus making them the most convenient fighter to defend the city.

 

All in all servers that cover all different stages should be the most interesting. Early scenarios with Emils, F-2s and a very small number of F-4s against I-16s and just a few MiG-3s, then progressing onto the battle as we know it. For the record, the Bf-109F-4 and the improved MiG-3 reached the front at exactly the same month - June 1941.

Edited by Lucas_From_Hell
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My comment about the starter tooth was about it's execution as a 3d model. The tip of the spinner on the 3d model isn't as pointed as a real MiG. The starter tooth just looks a bit strange on the tip of the more blunt nose. It also doesn't appear to have any actual teeth on it. It looks like a low-poly cylinder with the Pepsi wave on the tip.

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All in all servers that cover all different stages should be the most interesting. Early scenarios with Emils, F-2s and a very small number of F-4s against I-16s and just a few MiG-3s, then progressing onto the battle as we know it.

I hope it will be exactly done like this.

A few days ago i had squad training in 1946, I16 against E7 in a 4v4. I was on the I16 team. We have been all but without a chance. In fact it was almost even. Things look way different balancewise, when there are organized teams against each other. No need to give unhistoric advantages.

Edited by II./JG77_Manu*
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Coordinated aircraft are good stuff, I think a major shortcoming of the perspective of a flight simulator pilot is the focus people put on aircraft performance when picking their ride. Little attention is given to coordination in the air and most of all pair tactics, so most will just fly lone wolf with an aircraft that performs well just to be squatted like a fly by any old Joe and his wingman.

 

All that asides, is there info on which units were using what model of the Bf-109 in the middle of 1941 in the East? I can never find decent information about the Luftwaffe, on the Soviet side there is a nice database that covers every single regiment from both Army and Navy with what aircraft they flew, which division and army they were attached to, who were the regiment commanders and general information about combat performance.

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Some further thoughts having spent some quality time with the MiG, mostly offline with the occassional stint into MP: 

 

1. This aircraft is nothing but fun to fly. I literally haven't touched the controls of any other plane since the patch came out.

 

2. As a fighter it's a lot more capable than it's initially letting on. I would name it second amongst the VVS aircraft after the Yak in terms of dogfighting qualities. Its great acceleration and pleasant handling in the 350 - 550 kph range makes it a great dogfighter. Not quite the equal of the Bf 109 F4 and G2 but close enough.

 

3. The effective cooling and simple CEM makes it quite easy to get the best performance compared to for instance the La-5.

 

4. It winter it's a god**** beast! The power boost and generally faster speeds at which fights take place benefit it tremendously. On top of that you can run the engine with almost no radiator all day long.

 

5. With upgraded armament it's a potent bomber killer, provided you don't expose yourself to counter fire.

 

6. In this plane the maxim "altitude is life" is more true than ever. Your first priority should always be to get as much air beneath you as posible.

 

7. It seems really fragile, perhaps too fragile? The wings come off really easily (there seems to be a pattern of newly released aircraft having "glass wings", the Bf 109s, the Fw 190 and now the Bf 110 and and MiG) and virtually every time I get hit, the result is catastrophic damage. Of couse, that can partly be explained by the very small, compact airframe, where the pilot and engine take up a considerably larger portion of the entire aircraft than on larger planes. Still, I think a DM review might be in order.

 

8. Proper trimming helps a lot in gaining stability and reducing energy loss in maneuvers (well, that goes for all aircraft, but it seems particularly important here)

 

9. In a BoM scenario it might actually dominate, especially in winter. It already can play on an almost even footing with the Bf 109G2 in winter and outclasses the E7 - even at low altitude, so who knows how it might compare with the F2?

 

10. As great as the overall modelling work is, I have to agree with people like GOZR, that the perspective makes some parts of the pit look oddly proportioned. The cockpit looks "too large" somehow. I don't know what creates that effect, but it's not just head position as can easily be confirmed just by moving your head around with TrackIR. 

 

11. And the last and most important lesson: Don't ever go slow in the MiG! Below 250 kph it's a sitting duck and can do absolutely nothing well.

 

Well, does my appreciation for the MiG mean, that I'm now a crack pilot and totally dominate online? Far from it. The MiG being great doesn't change the fact, that I'm a pretty sloppy pilot and regularly get my *** handed to me in MP. Also: Apart from the CEM, this is not an easy plane to master, proper energy management is not simple in the MiG and getting good climb performance in any given situation still feels like hit-and-miss to me. Still, after only a couple of days I feel a lot more confident in the MiG than in any other VVS fighter apart from the Yak, and I hope we'll soon see true BoM servers pop up, where every single opponent isn't a damn Bf 109F4. There it might better show its qualities.

 

 

Finky,

      Aborted man and I went out and pillaged in the MiG the other day, but we did struggle with Thermal management.  What are your recommendations?  I think I am the least uneducated about the MiG of all the aircraft from the VVS side.

 

We found the following from trial and error:

 

- Summer/Autumn, this thing runs HOT.  Its all about cooling, but that water cooler is like a billboard hanging down and after an aggressive climb you really have to work to get your water below 100 degrees.

 

- The Green Temp gauge seems to be a cylinder head reading?  But THAT is the one you need to watch as too long around 120 deg and your motor will quit

 

-  Mixture above 85% and power up near 94-100% = BOOST, but not for long without overheat.  

 

-  Cruise setting I find to work fairly well above 3k are 90% throttle, 85% RPM and Mixture around 60%, but this only yields a top cruise speed of 400-450 KMH.  Not very good in my mind, but I am probably doing something wrong.

 

-  Fighting characteristics seem to be similar to a Slower FW-190, Roll is strong and crisp from 350-500kmh, but turning needs to be light for fear of bleeding too much.  In any case you'll never out turn a 109 of any kind!

 

-  Above 600 kmh the ailerons seem to suffer from compression and you have to help your roll with rudder while simultaneously trying to slow down

 

-  Flaps I am thoroughly confused by... no idea how to use them in combat....

 

 

Love to hear your thoughts dude...

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A great plane for his time. Sadly nobody will fly only Bf-109 F-2 & E-7 or the Mc.202. You are forced to face newer planes that are better for his time. The only plane what survive every time period is the Rata-Ta-Ta. 

 

This is where accurate mission making will come in handy.  MiG-3 is of course a BoM plane, and while they did soldier on into 1943 to face G-2s, FWs, and the like, they were already out of favor by Stalingrad as the Yaks rose.

 

So When the F-2 comes out, we can have, god forbid, historically accurate missions that place other BoM adversaries opposite the MiG rather than the uber-fighter everyone defers to...the F-4.

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Afaik, the Mig-3 was about 10 times more common during the BoM than the Bf 109 F-4 variant and almost as common as the I-16 series which we currently have.

 

- The Green Temp gauge seems to be a cylinder head reading?  But THAT is the one you need to watch as too long around 120 deg and your motor will quit

 

The green indicator is coolant temperature.

 

The indicator on the top right (with fuel and oil pressure) is the outgoing oil temperature. The red one on the bottom right is the ingoing oil temperature. The difference between those two temperatures shows how effective your cooling is, but you should concentrate on the outgoing oil temperature.

 

Overall, i think 30% open oil cooler flaps are enough on autumn map, maybe a bit more on summer maps. The coolant radiator needs constant adjustments to keep the temperature down without causing too much drag. In a steep climb or slow speed turns, 70+% open flaps might be necessary for some time.

Edited by Matt
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All that asides, is there info on which units were using what model of the Bf-109 in the middle of 1941 in the East? I can never find decent information about the Luftwaffe, on the Soviet side there is a nice database that covers every single regiment from both Army and Navy with what aircraft they flew, which division and army they were attached to, who were the regiment commanders and general information about combat performance.

Not near my books right now, but in general:

 

JG52 and JG54: F-2s and F-4s

JG51: F-2s

JG77: E-series. In fact, they were one of the main fighter units supporting the drive on Moscow.

Edited by LukeFF
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Afaik, the Mig-3 was about 10 times more common during the BoM than the Bf 109 F-4 variant and almost as common as the I-16 series which we currently have.

 

 

The green indicator is coolant temperature.

 

The indicator on the top right (with fuel and oil pressure) is the outgoing oil temperature. The red one on the bottom right is the ingoing oil temperature. The difference between those two temperatures shows how effective your cooling is, but you should concentrate on the outgoing oil temperature.

 

Overall, i think 30% open oil cooler flaps are enough on autumn map, maybe a bit more on summer maps. The coolant radiator needs constant adjustments to keep the temperature down without causing too much drag. In a steep climb or slow speed turns, 70+% open flaps might be necessary for some time.

 

Interesting.  Without doing any research whatever before flying it, AbortedMan and I thought the larger Temp gauge above and to the right of the Green and Red gauges was the Water/Coolant.  Good info.  Thanks.

 

Any idea what temps you want to avoid exceeding on the Green Water gauge?  

 

What about how mixture plays into the thermal game?

Not near my books right now, but in general:

 

JG52 and JG54: F-2s and F-4s

JG51: F-2s

JG77: E-series. In fact, they were one of the main fighter units supporting the drive on Moscow.

 

And around Stalingrad, and likely to the chagrin of most Luftwaffe boys, from October '42 to the fall of 6th army, JG 3, and JG 52 were equipped only with G-2s...

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Thanks for the info guys. I was also under the impression that particularly in the Autumn and Winter the MiG-3 was overwhelmingly common as the mainstay while the F-4 was sharing space with the F-2, is that correct?

 

Luke, these figures are applicable to what part of the operation? :)

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Any idea what temps you want to avoid exceeding on the Green Water gauge?     What about how mixture plays into the thermal game?
 

Temperature should be around 110 °C.

 

In general, the richer the mixture, the cooler the engine. However, in the Mig-3, you also increase manifold pressure by adjusting the mixture and a higher manifold pressure will also lead to a hotter engine. For continous use, try to use as rich mixture as possible, without exceeding 1040 mmhg manifold pressure with 100% throttle and RPM.

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Just wanna bump my question. Which load out of the Mig gives best performance.. Obviously adding the gunpods adds weight and more drag so. However which out of the other weapon variants is the lightest and will give best climb and speed.  I am thinking the 2x BS as maybe two smaller guns are lighter than the two 20mm option and the 1xBS and 2x Shkas machine guns...            Anyone done any tests? 

1xBS and 2x Shkas machine guns

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Eh, don't worry :) I think it shows clearly that the thick of the action was between F-2 vs. MiG-3, with F-4s, E-7s and I-16s making up the rest of the numbers.

 

By the way, thanks everyone who is sharing all this data on flying the MiG - it makes it easier and fun for us who have to wait :D

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Temperature should be around 110 °C.

 

In general, the richer the mixture, the cooler the engine. However, in the Mig-3, you also increase manifold pressure by adjusting the mixture and a higher manifold pressure will also lead to a hotter engine. For continous use, try to use as rich mixture as possible, without exceeding 1040 mmhg manifold pressure with 100% throttle and RPM.

 

 

 

Cool.  Thanks for this.  MiG-3 is definitely quirky in comparison to other VVS planes.

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Afaik, the Mig-3 was about 10 times more common during the BoM than the Bf 109 F-4 variant and almost as common as the I-16 series which we currently have.

 

 

The green indicator is coolant temperature.

 

The indicator on the top right (with fuel and oil pressure) is the outgoing oil temperature. The red one on the bottom right is the ingoing oil temperature. The difference between those two temperatures shows how effective your cooling is, but you should concentrate on the outgoing oil temperature.

 

Overall, i think 30% open oil cooler flaps are enough on autumn map, maybe a bit more on summer maps. The coolant radiator needs constant adjustments to keep the temperature down without causing too much drag. In a steep climb or slow speed turns, 70+% open flaps might be necessary for some time.

summer map 40 t o 45 seems about right on summer maps

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Afaik, the Mig-3 was about 10 times more common during the BoM than the Bf 109 F-4 variant and almost as common as the I-16

First of all that was the early Mig, not the one in game. Second of all most of them have been used over Moscow to defend the bomber raids. Which is not included in our BoM theatre. On the front lines even the old ones haven't been common. Amongst other due to their bad performance for those tasks. The K/D ratio in those operations have been worse then even I16. They have been slaughtered.
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First of all that was the early Mig, not the one in game. Second of all most of them have been used over Moscow to defend the bomber raids. Which is not included in our BoM theatre.

Umm...it's entirely possible they were used to defend against bomber raids over the western approaches to Moscow. One can defend a city against bombing raids without actually flying right over the city in question.

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