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Developer Diary, Part 117 - Discussion

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I interpreted that obviously the Mig was part of the patch, and then multiplayer airfield selection screens were being changed and I remember reading about changes to Tank Ai maybe in the last DD?  :unsure:

 

Edit: I'm not against tanks in this Sim... I don't use them but appreciate that they are here, they are even fun to destroy. But what I am against is the development of tanks slowing the progress of Aircraft development and release  :)

I think you are reading way too much into it. The DD is mostly about the map and not tanks per se. Unless someone says otherwise, the Mig-3 is on schedule and in Beta right now. There is a proposed release date around here somewhere but I'm too lazy to look it up ATM.

Also, in regard to the DD*

 

I have to admit, when I initially saw there were airfield improvements I though we were going to get more atmospheric/static ground objects. Engine stands, trucks, tractors, workbenches, start carts, etc. Still hoping for all that someday.

Edited by [LBS]HerrMurf
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I was watching Star Wars movies all day today and just now have a chance to chime in on the DD. Needless to say, as Han has shown above, the 1C-777 team does amazing work.

 

Jason

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I was watching Star Wars movies all day today and just now have a chance to chime in on the DD. Needless to say, as Han has shown above, the 1C-777 team does amazing work.

 

Jason

Indeed, and these latest DDs by Han has really been a further step up in communication. They are excellent.

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Han is doing an outstanding job in communicating with the community!

By the way, is Zak still around? Haven't seen him posting anything for some time.

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Han is doing an outstanding job in communicating with the community!

By the way, is Zak still around? Haven't seen him posting anything for some time.

 

Zak is still with the company, but he is working on something else for 1C these days. You still have everyone else.

 

Jason

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I saw h

 

Han is doing an outstanding job in communicating with the community!
By the way, is Zak still around? Haven't seen him posting anything for some time.

I saw him lingering in the "users ticker" at the bottom earlier today. Was thinking the same thing. Jason, tell him the community says, "hi."

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Han's post on the experiments with flap deployment are great read.

 

In RL different aircraft, low wing and high wing, present different responses to flap deployment. It's in part due to what Han describes, but not only... Other factors like the relative position of the CoL vs CoR also influence the outcome of lowering flaps.

 

An RV-6 pitches down immediately as flaps are deployed, while a Cherokee will pitch up, just as a C150 or a C172, ** even if you hold your yoke in place! "

 

But it's an interesting post, nonetheless, showing how attention to detail is a central point in the development of this simulator.

 

Recently I had a similar discussion at the ED and A2A Forums because of the way the P51d modeled by A2A for MSFS and by ED for DCS responds to flap deployment, and because they have pilot's who had real experience on the type cooperating with them in the development of those aircraft modules.

 

Fact is, in A2A's P51d, flap deployment results in immediate pitch down, irrespective of IAS, AoA and / or aircraft configuration ( gear up or down, etc...) while in DCS there is first a pitch up under most circumstances, and then the aircraft starts pitching down to catch it's new trimmed state.  

 

The effect in DCS's P51d agrees with exactly what Han describes regarding the La-5 behavior in BoS. I don't know if we can compare the two aircraft ( don't know in detail their flight dynamics design and characteristics, although I know a little bit more about the p51d... ), so, for me I always found it is nicely and plausibly modeled in BoS too.

 

IRL I have flown gliders with flaps that respond differently to flap deplyoment, and took time to experiment with the results when holding the stick in place or in free-stick situations, and indeed, some gliders pitch up, while others pitch down ... just as in different prop and jet aircraft.

 

It's great to know this is being accurately modeled in BoS, but, at the same time, it doesn't happen to be, at least IMO, a justification for the wobbling as a response for pitch perturbations from trimmed flight states!

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SNIP

I think it might be a good time for the devs to implement the coop MP game mode, but I don't think that's in the plans.

 

 

Coop missions can already be made. That is roughly how the online wars are flown. A mission is designed, certain aircraft are made at certain fields. Everyone can log in, go to their field (or airstart), get their plane and either start on the ground or wait for the mission to start to begin flying. The better thing about that is that if someone gets dropped, they can actually join back in and just be a little bit behind the main group.

 

So coop mode can already be done, it just requires coordination of start time.

 

That is full blown MP coop kind of and for from both sides.
He probably means coop one can fly it with buddies against AI, all mission planes on ones side left unoccupied turning into AI.
 
That way Pat's CG can be flown with friends.
Lots of ppl may be interested in that.
Edited by West
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Interesting discussion of the effect of flaps. In the aircraft I have flown for more than an hour or so, I would describe the sensation of lower flaps as 'ballooning'; I always thought (in simple terms), this was the result of simultaneous increase in lift with aft movement of center of lift, meaning that the aircraft rose slightly while stabilizing at a lower angle of attack (as the flaps increased wing lift for a given speed). After a while, the additional induced / form drag resulted in the nose gently lowering.

 

I remember this was most pronounced in the Shorts Bulldog, but the Grob Tutor also did it. I seem to remember that the Chipmunk pitched up more than down, but that could be just me - maybe the different sitting position vs CoL / CoG means it felt different but actually behaved similarly?

 

Cannot remember what the Cessnas did so much; more like a slight increase in pitch? Very different sensation to the spoilers on the Grob glider series where you can feel the wings immediately lose lift.

 

Well done to the team for their painstaking research on these issues :salute:

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No "Galland Special" Bf-109F-2 modifications :(

 

A one off modified airplane? That opens the door for so much that it would be impossible to try to model all special single aircraft.

Edited by FuriousMeow

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That is full blown MP coop kind of and for from both sides.
He probably means coop one can fly it with buddies against AI, all mission planes on ones side left unoccupied turning into AI.
 
That way Pat's CG can be flown with friends.
Lots of ppl may be interested in that.

 

 

PWCG has the capability to do coop with Rise of Flight. I'm pretty sure it works basically the same way, otherwise any plane's not taken by humans wouldn't fly and it would just be a couple player controlled planes flying around an empty sky.

 

It can also be done without PWCG, that is just an easier way to do it. I was wrong though, once the coop designed mission begins no one else can rejoin. So once it starts, its locked just like the old coop system - but it does work basically the same way.

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PWCG has the capability to do coop with Rise of Flight. I'm pretty sure it works basically the same way, otherwise any plane's not taken by humans wouldn't fly and it would just be a couple player controlled planes flying around an empty sky.

 

It can also be done without PWCG, that is just an easier way to do it. I was wrong though, once the coop designed mission begins no one else can rejoin. So once it starts, its locked just like the old coop system - but it does work basically the same way.

 

Pat’s generator is a rather complicated thing starting with lots of configurable variables some of which crisscross the map, eventually meet and finalise in a mission only holding the waypoints for your side along with the necessary triggers for the flights to meet, be it friendly or opponents only generating somewhere just out of ones radar range.
Pats IL2 interface even still mentions COOP, but that selection is left greyed out, of course ...
If ever COOP would become available I sure hope Pat is still game for incorporating it in his IL2 campaign generator too and hosting also becomes available from within the game without need of Dserver, all pretty much like ROF.
But hé, it took a while in ROF too now, didn’t it.
While figures are told to show that PPL doing MP represent only a single digit % of the whole community, the option of flying SP missions with friends must at least hold potential.
Edited by West

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Thank you Kostya, for being so very kind as to assist with this.

Very informative, and educational update, I learnt something new today reading and viewing the information within this update.

Really like the "details" of this sim, (in all aspects).

As always, you guy's are doing a fantastic job, and it's a real credit to all of you :salute:  :)

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Pat’s generator is a rather complicated thing starting with lots of configurable variables some of which crisscross the map, eventually meet and finalise in a mission only holding the waypoints for your side along with the necessary triggers for the flights to meet, be it friendly or opponents only generating somewhere just out of ones radar range.
Pats IL2 interface even still mentions COOP, but that selection is left greyed out, of course ...
If ever COOP would become available I sure hope Pat is still game for incorporating it in his IL2 campaign generator too and hosting also becomes available from within the game without need of Dserver, all pretty much like ROF.
But hé, it took a while in ROF too now, didn’t it.
While figures are told to show that PPL doing MP represent only a single digit % of the whole community, the option of flying SP missions with friends must at least hold potential.

 

I do not understand the business strategy of 1C/777 if there exist any at all. We are supplied regularly with all sorts of interesting and sometimes inconsequential information in the DDs. But the greatest weakness of all in this simulator series, namely its SP campaign is meticulously concealed. The SP-community consoles itself with BoS PWGC and hopes this 3rd party activity will pull the cart anyway out of the mud. Where is the commitment of 1C / 777 for the greatest player groups of all? I see nothing of the sort. At least DCS has smelled a rat and today launches the "Baltic Dragon" campaign (a story - driven campaign) for its large SP fan base.

And no, I'm not getting paid by DCS. I'm just an ordinary SP consumer who would prefer to spend his money at 1C / 777.

Edited by Grancesc
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When shall have we the last planes which have participated in the operation Uranus, as the Yak 1B, the Yak 7 and  7B......?

 

yak1b.jpg

 

Image extracted from this book

 

stalingrad.jpg

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When shall have we the last planes which have participated in the operation Uranus, as the Yak 1B, the Yak 7 and  7B......?

 

 

 

Ok, but we want Bf110F-2 and Hs129B-2 for blues :)

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Ok, but we want Bf110F-2 and Hs129B-2 for blues :)

 

yes, of course ;)

bf110-f2.jpg

Edited by NN_Avenger

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Yes, I'm pleased to here Zac is still with the team as well, and everyone else. It's a great team here :salute:


 

 

I was watching Star Wars movies all day

I took the kids to see "The Force Awakens" Friday night. My eyes where glued to the big screen the whole time the film was running :)

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Coop missions can already be made. That is roughly how the online wars are flown. A mission is designed, certain aircraft are made at certain fields. Everyone can log in, go to their field (or airstart), get their plane and either start on the ground or wait for the mission to start to begin flying. The better thing about that is that if someone gets dropped, they can actually join back in and just be a little bit behind the main group.

 

So coop mode can already be done, it just requires coordination of start time.

 

No, coop missions cannot be made in BoS (or rather, they can be made in the editor, but DServer won't load them). What you are describing is deathmatches where people agree on some sort of cooperative gameplay. It's not the same thing. In particular, you can't escort AI bombers, and AI fighters can't escort you when in you are flying a bomber.

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No, coop missions cannot be made in BoS (or rather, they can be made in the editor, but DServer won't load them). What you are describing is deathmatches where people agree on some sort of cooperative gameplay. It's not the same thing. In particular, you can't escort AI bombers, and AI fighters can't escort you when in you are flying a bomber.

I don't agree, you can escort AI bomber, but it's right that ai fighter can't escort human plane like human can do it. You can give a patrol area to the AI fighter and can't link them to the bomber with an escort formation command.

 

Here is a formation of AI HE111 where i'm one of the last HE111. Friends wich are player escort us for the mission.

 

7493cde5155954f1fca6e1e47a752c47aa7f6d3b

Edited by Habu
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Tomorrow is my guess. Tuesdays have been the most common release day recently.

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Glad you plan to fix the force feedback issue. While you're working on it feel free to add some dampening forces. Seems you only use Spring forces in game.

Edited by driftaholic

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Thanks for update Devs, Merry Christmas to all.

 

BTW. How to play them (maine are greyed) and what are the missions (didn't  noticed them before) in some campaign chapters with padlock symbol?

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I noticed that putting the yak in a skid using rudder bleeds almost no speed. Have others noticed this and will it be addressed in a flight model fix?

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Rhino, do you have video? I am a bonafide Luftie and this is not my experience with that AC.

Edited by [LBS]HerrMurf

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When shall have we the last planes which have participated in the operation Uranus, as the Yak 1B, the Yak 7 and  7B......?

 

yak1b.jpg

 

Image extracted from this book

 

stalingrad.jpg

It bother me not to fly with . :)

 

Ok, but we want Bf110F-2 and Hs129B-2 for blues :)

1000+

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