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jcomm-il2

Wobbling mostly pitch, also yaw ( all aircraft models... )

  

166 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you think there's too much wobbling (pitch and yaw mostly), and less than desired pre-stall buffet on most/all aircraft in BoS, and would like it to get addressed ?

    • Yes, airplanes respond to pitch, and also yaw inputs, specially at higher AoA, with undesirable wobbling.
      131
    • It's fine for me the way it is.
      35


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I just wish half the guys protecting FM issues had the chance to sit in a real aircraft. Take the ASK21, it almost feels like a cheat to fly! No flatspins, no wobbling, stable controlls, ect. How should sby who's influrenced to assume more difficult = more realistic, ever believe this is actually possible?

Yes wobbling can be overcome by flying with slightly masochistic joystick settings or counterintuitive correction movements but that's not a reason for saying it's all accurate and fine at all. Same goes for the obvious slip issue most planes posess.

Luckily, although still effected, the Bf-110 and Bf-109 E behave different (in a good way) from BoS aircrafts in this regard. They're more stable, slip nicely and behave expectable and controllable at any time.

 

If I was to judge how realistic planes ingame behave to me by order I'd say Bf-110 > Bf-109E-7 > He-111 > Yak-1 >>>> everything else.

Edited by Stab/JG26_5tuka
  • Upvote 4

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BTW - The "anti-wobbling" settings used by "Señor Diez" for the  CH Fighterstick PRO, in the pictures for Fw 190, for LaGG is all in "100".*

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/589-video-ot-mkmrx/page-30?do=findComment&comment=368932

 

* 100 means the slider all left, in 0.

 

"In Putin's Russia, a flight game full sensitivity controls is equal to zero".  :biggrin: 

 

Couldn't find it ?  Where in that thread exactly Sokol1?

 

Who Señor Diez ?

 

EDIT: Ok, found it:  http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/589-video-ot-mkmrx/page-30?do=findComment&comment=368932

 

Thx!

Edited by JCOMM

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I just wish half the guys protecting FM issues had the chance to sit in a real aircraft. Take the ASK21, it almost feels like a cheat to fly! No flatspins, no wobbling, stable controlls, ect. How should sby who's influrenced to assume more difficult = more realistic, ever believe this is actually possible?

Yes wobbling can be overcome by flying with slightly masochistic joystick settings or counterintuitive correction movements but that's not a reason for saying it's all accurate and fine at all. Same goes for the obvious slip issue most planes posess.

Luckily, although still effected, the Bf-110 and Bf-109 E behave different (in a good way) from BoS aircrafts in this regard. They're more stable, slip nicely and behave expectable and controllable at any time.

 

If I was to judge how realistic planes ingame behave to me by order I'd say Bf-110 > Bf-109E-7 > He-111 > Yak-1 >>>> everything else.

 

I'm with you 5tuka, but no sim is perfect... and I had to adapt...

 

The K21 or mostly any glider, less a DG 400 I once flew after a repair in the tail I was not aware ... It was so tail heavy that I thought I was flying a modern fighter with the FBW not functional :-)

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Sokol1,

 

you made the wrong translation OR Mr. Mk X changed his settings...

 

In that thread, looking at the screens of the 3 axis, he is actually using 70% for PITCH, 0% for ROLL and 80% for YAW !

 

The 100% you referred to, ( 0% on the slider ) is set only for roll.

 

I am using 60 % on both pitch and yaw, and 0% on roll...

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No.

 

The settings in the pictures is for "Fokker" (Fw 190).

 

For LaGG he use 100 in all: "На ЛаГГе летал всё по 100".

 

For other planes he say that vary, but roll is always 100: Для каждого самолёта разные значения по тангажу, крен всегда 100.

 

When he say 100 means 0% in the adjust (slider for left) - or game default. He explain this "100" in the second postage bellow.

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Oops!

 

Obrigado! Thx for making it clear to my "blind" eyes Sokol1... 

 

Ans BTW, that really makes having separate joystick settings for each aircraft a must in BoS/BoM.... just like it's possible in RoF...

Edited by JCOMM

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From my experience and what I read, real ww2 aircraft needed 40-60+ pounds of force on the stick as the deflection of surfaces got higher, our modern joysticks can be pushed around with your little pinky too easily. And when you release the joystick you end up with it flailing back and forth. It's the joystick fault not the modeled Bos planes. Ideally you need a joystick that has lots of resistance while having no wobble when released. This would almost certainly require fastening the joystick to the desk in some way.

Edited by Smok

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Bought a 15cm extension for my Warthog since that the wobbling is almost completly gone ( if i had 65 % control over the plane at slow speeds before, now its 99% ) when i fly the ME 109. Haven´t tryed the FW 190 yet but will do. So the Joystick maybe the greatest problem for most people that have the wobbling problem.

Edited by Gunsmith86

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From my experience and what I read, real ww2 aircraft needed 40-60+ pounds of force on the stick as the deflection of surfaces got higher, our modern joysticks can be pushed around with your little pinky too easily. And when you release the joystick you end up with it flailing back and forth. It's the joystick fault not the modeled Bos planes. Ideally you need a joystick that has lots of resistance while having no wobble when released. This would almost certainly require fastening the joystick to the desk in some way.

 

That, and also there is a side effect from the fact the joysticks are both self centering and not directly linked to the control surfaces which leads to abrupt changes in deflection unlike what would happen in a real airplane with direct linkage.

 

I fear the solution may be worse than the problem - control dampening/delay or artificial virtual control force/pressure in game that can't be easily defined or felt.

Edited by FuriousMeow

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I also am a real pilot with some stick time in aerobatic aircraft and yes I do agree these aircraft DO NOT behave as they should. I cannot get one of these aircraft to snap roll as they should. They just short of flop over and mush about. The snap roll has always been a favorite defensive maneuver of mine no longer possible in this sim. because of the instability of most of the planes accurate  Boom and zoom shooting is quite hard but as describe in countless combat report of ww2 and the books of the pilots in that conflict they describe a no maneuvering plane to be a sitting duck. Here again this is not modeled very well and even after repeated hits the planes often  just fly along as if nothing has happened. I wait till I am VERY close 80meters or less. Also AI always react when most pilots shot down never even saw their attacker. If one gets in the low cold six the ai should not be able to see you but they do every time. The FW-190 in this game is virtually unusable as the boom and zoom champion that is was because of this and because they have made it so very vulnerable when by all accounts it was much tougher than the 109 and many Russian single seaters. Well just my two cents. Can't wait to finally get some stick time in the PITTS S2C!   

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That wobble is a bigger problem than most think! It is why it is so hard to shoot accurately in a way that the real WW2 pilots wrote about in combat reports. Describing for example Sarvonto' Shoot down of all those Bombers at once over Finland. He first took out many of the gunner by aiming carefully. Something that would be all but Impossible in IL-2 BOS. Folks this need change because I cringe as real pilot at what they are going to do to the Pacific arena aircraft. Ouch! 

Edited by BlitzvogelMcpeek78

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Apparently going to get fixed in one of the next patches, in March if I'm not wrong, by the time the A-5 also makes it's debut.

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I also think wobbling is an issue +1. and this kills the immersion. Setting non linearity to the joysticks reduces the problem but not completely and I think non linearity also kills the immersion. I believe this is happening becouse of the physics of how Windows directInput (or what ever technique is used to program them) handles the controllers when it is digitised. No matter how precise the sensors are they are digitesed by 1024 intervals and converted in to game. Thus killing the resoulution of the input.

 

You pitch the plane a bit and it reacts like it is spring loaded and starts to oscilate killing the flight dynamics only after spending hours we may get used to it a bit with muscle memory (if we can). 

Edited by Europa

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I'm not enough of an experienced pilot to say for sure....

 

But based on my short flight time in a glider, I'm extremely skeptical about the wobbling. I feel it needs a good investigation at some point.


I also want to say I don't like the term "undesirable". It makes me think "unpleasant".

 

I don't care about how pleasant it is or not. I just want it to be as close to reality as possible. I'll never get to fly WW2 aircraft, so I want my sim experience to be as accurate as possible.

 

It's like the Mig-3. For me it's the most stressful to fly, especially in takeoff and landing, but I'd never ask them to make it easier if they are confident it's as accurate as possible.

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I'm not enough of an experienced pilot to say for sure....

 

But based on my short flight time in a glider, I'm extremely skeptical about the wobbling. I feel it needs a good investigation at some point.

I also want to say I don't like the term "undesirable". It makes me think "unpleasant".

 

I don't care about how pleasant it is or not. I just want it to be as close to reality as possible. I'll never get to fly WW2 aircraft, so I want my sim experience to be as accurate as possible.

 

It's like the Mig-3. For me it's the most stressful to fly, especially in takeoff and landing, but I'd never ask them to make it easier if they are confident it's as accurate as possible.

 

Sorry for my English but I didn't understand. Do you say wobbling is realistic or do you say it is not due to your glider experience. I think we all agree about the realism in the world of IL2 Sturmovik. As real as it gets.

Edited by Europa

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Sorry for my English but I didn't understand. Do you say wobbling is realistic or do you say it is not due to your glider experience. I think we all agree about the realism in the world of IL2 Sturmovik. As real as it gets.

I'm skeptical about whether it's current magnitude is realistic or not and I think it needs an investigation by the developers at some point.

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Just brain storming. Air is compressible, so the air must apply gradual resistance due to compressibility which will prevent the plane to wobble naturally. Second I observe that the plane tends to wobble mostly because  of the stick centering is exponentially effecting on flight controls. The quicker the stick is goes back to center the more the wobbling is.

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Just brain storming. Air is compressible, so the air must apply gradual resistance due to compressibility which will prevent the plane to wobble naturally. Second I observe that the plane tends to wobble mostly because  of the stick centering is exponentially effecting on flight controls. The quicker the stick is goes back to center the more the wobbling is.

I've noticed this, too. I'm not saying the way it's modeled in game is definitely wrong, just that I feel it could use a review and possibly some tweaking.

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Exactly. So the compressed air has to damp this spring bouncing force when centering.

Edited by Europa

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Hi, does the joystick controls angle of attack it that is true why the critical angle of attack changes with airspeed?

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