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SYN_Vander

Feedback on Tanks addition

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The developers have made it very clear that the tanks addition should be considered an experiment -for now at least- and are very interested in our feedback, so here it is :).

I have created a simple (co-op) mission with both tanks and aircraft. One side had to capture an airfield and the other side had to defend. Players were the attackers in Panzer III's, while the defenders were AI (and one or two players to stir things up a bit). We played this on a private server with 8-10 members of our squad.

 

First I have to say I really like the tanks, how they are modelled, how they drive and shoot. I also loved the interaction with pilots. When we ran into a tough obstacle like a dug-in enemy tank we would mark the target with MG fire, so the pilot could see it. then the pilot could attack the position with bombs.

 

Random observations & suggestions:

 

-When you shoot there is a lot of white smoke. This makes it impossible to see where the round hit. I had to use external views to see if i was anywhere close to the target.

-When both driver and gunner are humans, the gunner can change the ammunition/weapon, but it won't show that in the UI for the gunner. 

-AI tank accuracy: We had all AI tanks on "normal" difficulty setting. They would very often not should at all when out of  a certain range, but when they start shooting, they will hit with EVERY shot, even when you are driving. It would be better if this was a little more random, specially if you are moving!

-AI see and shoot through trees.

-Range finder?

-It would be nice to see AI together with human players in one platoon. I strongly suggest to have a "drop in" function, so you can man a tank that is controlled by AI in the middle of a game!

-The "shimmering" of landscape textures is very visible because of the view angle.

-It is great to see your obstacle get attacked by friendly fighter bombers! It really makes you feel you are in a battle zone!

-The tanks are quite durable, at least against AI, so luckily often it's not one shot - one kill so you have the option to hide/retreat if you don't know who fired.

-Damage model of the player tanks is nice, tracks can be shot of etc. The fact that AI damage model is not so sophisticated is not a big deal since you will very often shoot them from long range, so you can't see the detailed damage anyway. Smoke/fire is more important and that is already there.

-Player can't bail out! It would also be very nice to see (AI) crew members bail out, let's say randomized depending on damage level/crew AI level.

-For in-game co-ordination/communication it would be great to have flares (not sure if/how they were used in real life)

-Smoke screen would be another nice option, but then AI should not fire (aim) through smoke!

 

Overall, tanks are a great addition to the game and I hope they will be developed further!

Edited by SYN_Vander
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-AI see and shoot through trees.

 

Not too much of a problem for a fixed wing flight sim, but not good for a tank sim.

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Not too much of a problem for a fixed wing flight sim, but not good for a tank sim.

 

There is a workaround: The mission designer can choose the battleground, ie he shouldn't place AI tank in a forest.

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The see thru clouds mountains and tree is a common AI problem. It is pretty much sorted in the latest patches in old IL 2 so I guess this is a problem that can be tweaced in the coding. I am not sure of course, but it is impossible to sneak on the blind spot on a AI plane, they see you no matter what , my guess is that the AI detect you within a certain range no matter what.

If they sort out this , we will ultimately get better AI behavior in general

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-When you shoot there is a lot of white smoke. This makes it impossible to see where the round hit. I had to use external views to see if i was anywhere close to the target.

IRL, the tank commander provided information about where the round hit. Obviously this would be advantageous for the Panzer III as it has a dedicated commander. Gun smoke was a big problem throughout WW2. In 76mm Shermans, one way to counteract this before the 76mm M1A2 was introduced with the new rifling and muzzle brake was to have one tank solely there to observe the fall of shot, since even the commander of the shooting tank couldn't see.

 

-Range finder?

It is in the game for both Russian and German sights

German: http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/Zeiss_Optics.htm

Russian: http://s23.postimg.org/lppnsgbmj/T_34_Range.png

Edited by RoflSeal
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-When you shoot there is a lot of white smoke. This makes it impossible to see where the round hit. I had to use external views to see if i was anywhere close to the target.

IRL, the tank commander provided information about where the round hit. Obviously this would be advantageous for the Panzer III as it has a dedicated commander. Gun smoke was a big problem throughout WW2. In 76mm Shermans, one way to counteract this before the 76mm M1A2 was introduced with the new rifling and muzzle brake was to have one tank solely there to observe the fall of shot, since even the commander of the shooting tank couldn't see.

 

-Range finder?

It is in the game for both Russian and German sights

German: http://www.fprado.com/armorsite/Zeiss_Optics.htm

Russian: http://s23.postimg.org/lppnsgbmj/T_34_Range.png

 

Thanks! very informative links about the sights.

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One thing that I feel would be interesting, if they add full tank internals, where you have to look through viewports and periscopes, a 3rd player in tanks with a dedicated commander would be an interesting and somewhat critical addition to properly simulate tank combat on in 1941-1943. The purpose of the commander in game would be more of a support role, but one that makes a huge difference to the overall survival of the tank. A commander can help navigate for the driver, help spot targets for the gunner (and help them make adjustments as stated above) and communicate with the team as a whole more freely than the other two. It's an interesting role, since the fact that the commander isn't really actively doing anything makes them one of the most effective tools for a tank crew.

 

Pair this with the infinitely better situational awareness that German viewports and cupolas offered, and you have a very interesting mechanic. The KV-1 may have a dedicated commander, but he would be just as blind as the gunner.

Edited by Brogan1

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