Jump to content
indiaciki

What's the wobbling thing ?

Recommended Posts

Dakpilot,

 

you may have a good point there, but I also find the wobbling in the Yak-1, even if not so pronounced, as well as in the C.202 and the P40...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes ive ran firmware long time ago . All works  but thanks .

Yes i have made a small profile with the switches that  don't  register when trying to input them straight into the game . works now .

 

Even in DCS is need a profile for make Warthog base 2/3 positions switches work as DX buttons - map then direct in game GUI without that "press button to press keys".

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=153039

 

Add that in BoS his dumb down controls use only toggle functions (same key for turn ON and OFF some function, e.g. lights), so without profile is not possible practical use of this 2/3 positions switches, as will be need turn ON the switch to do something and turn ON again to stop...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dakpilot,

 

you may have a good point there, but I also find the wobbling in the Yak-1, even if not so pronounced, as well as in the C.202 and the P40...T

 

Yes I find it in the Yak as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yesterday I did a simple test.

 

As the last time I've flown a Russian plane in BoS was in the tutorial, I decided to hop in a LaGG-3 for some testing.

 

The difference compared to a Bf109 was shocking. I pointed the nose somewhere, it went there. It almost felt like cheating, after struggling so hard with the controls on the Messer.

 

This is the exact same control setup, same pilot skill, same everything - except the plane. I was shocked.

 

But after all, what did you expect?

This game was developed and designed by a Russian company, to entertain the Russian players.

Who plays in the opposing faction is the Bad guy, and like all fairy tales with a happy ending .... should die.

Too bad for them, that even with aircraft castrates, we bring home the our kill. :D

 

But i give you reason that all this is quite historically ridiculous,unacceptable from the point of view of any idea of a balancing about the factions,and unprofessional towards paying customers.

You can be sure that if this happened to their legendary soviet aircraft, they had already corrected the problem.

I hope they have well saved my money, because they will not see another penny for a long...long time!

 
 

 

Edited by Ltn_F_Baracca

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This game was developed and designed by a Russian company, to entertain the Russian players.

Who plays in the opposing faction is the Bad guy, and like all fairy tales with a happy ending .... should die.

 

It's been 14 years since the first ever Il-2 release, and after all this time one would think we would be past this point. Alas :nea: 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's been 14 years since the first ever Il-2 release, and after all this time one would think we would be past this point. Alas :nea:

 

You right my friend,and i follow this brand from that age.

 

There has been always some problems in all editions of IL2,after all it is a game, and you can not ask the perfection, and i have always accepted the issue, because there were too many good things inside the 1C games,and anyway, they dont removed the their playability!

But in this edition Studio 777 have lost control about what it's right and wrong, and they dont care about what's going on...............they follow their idea/concept indifferent to any complaint made from customer,as the unstable about german fighters for example.

 

Damn!...I forgot that they have the famous archive historic!.....Delete the last part of the post.. THX!

 

PS.

Sorry for my OT !....But i lost the patience!

Edited by Ltn_F_Baracca

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately some of you got right here about game balancing. As a rl pilot with some aerobatic experience of taildrager old fashion style i think yak 1 beside its flaps down behaviour got immersion and nicely flight model (dont want comment about it performance) which is quite close to real plane handling. Unfortunately spring effect in pitch movements in german planes is very strange for me

  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately some of you got right here about game balancing. As a rl pilot with some aerobatic experience of taildrager old fashion style i think yak 1 beside its flaps down behaviour got immersion and nicely flight model (dont want comment about it performance) which is quite close to real plane handling. Unfortunately spring effect in pitch movements in german planes is very strange for me

Hi

 

Unfortunately for you, i have some experience about real flight world,and virtual world,and never in my life ,i see some many concentrate about lies and silly fantasies,as this title.

I invite you to take parameters that can justify that airplane, that the Studio 777 call that ufo...Yak 1.

It dosent lose energy, it can pull up very quickly even to 200 Kmh whitout unbalance whit flap out,it's can destroy you plane whit 4 shot,but it's not the same for you same calibr whit MG 17,it's can take a nosedive, and to touch the speed over 800 Kmh whitout danmage,when everybody know that after 600 Kmh it's begin to tearing his rivets,it's can collect huge damage even the them wings were in wood material,and it's can to be stable in any manouvre and shot you like a sniper whit bipods so easily....and go on!

If you want there is a nice collection about it in you tube .

And if you want my advice, do not get into this discussion, because you go out defeated hands down....and it is true, i do not like blind fans!

There is the free will, but i dont like that somebody come out whit some irrealistic idea and pass them off as truth.

Whit it, i invite Han to entry in this discussion as to shed light on what i'm saying.

 

Since we are under Christmas Time,and i  will give you my key as present,if somebody can to try ,that what i am saing are lies....and i am not joking!

Try to fly whit BF 109 G2 vs a Yak 1 in same altitude ....4500 mt....and tell me what 's going on in MP....you are dead 100%....it's fly like a light bombarder.

 

How i saied before,this is a video game, but I do not like that someone plagiarism with false information on as aircraft has to fly....and Studio 777 it's a Software House about PC games,and not the Air Force Academy!

In a few words ...It is not the bible of flight....begin to think with your head.

 

Regard

Edited by Ltn_F_Baracca

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

-snip-

 

Don't be offended, but being a real life pilot tells us nothing about your understanding of airplanes, you may or you may not, but that is not determined by you being a pilot.

From what you say: Have you ever really flown the Yak? Because mine tears apart at 650.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't be offended, but being a real life pilot tells us nothing about your understanding of airplanes, you may or you may not, but that is not determined by you being a pilot.

From what you say: Have you ever really flown the Yak? Because mine tears apart at 650.

Jordan , you dont offend me,dont worry,but if you ask me if i never flown whit a Yak 1,the answer it's..no!

And you belived everything about what developer a software house?...You never doubt that maybe something is not right?

You have never search about some interview from real history pilot about some model?

And about the existing real plane WW II in some air show? Did you never see fly it?

Do you realy think that a plane whit a weight about 3000 Kg whit 1000 Hp (YAK 1),it  can keep better the dive in comparation whit another one whit 2500 Kg and 1300 Hp (BF 109 F)?

If you tell me the YAK 1 get a different drawing wing,and it can turn better...OK!....But you will lose the energy faster whit the same angle attack, always in comparation to the other whit different wing but more light and power.

1+1 = 2.....and this one it applies worldwid...even to the YAK 1.

Anyway,try YAK 1 and BF 109 and test it, and you will understand what i am talking about, even if you are not a developer.

Edited by Ltn_F_Baracca

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually want to make a report on this!!!

 

Thing is none of u know what static stability is!??

 

Then none of u know what dynamic stability is???

 

Then everyone has a non clear ashole!

 

 

I have a advance understanding of flight dynamics.

 

The problem I have is that I don't have teat data.

 

But really stop being arsea

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Do you realy think that a plane whit a weight about 3000 Kg whit 1000 Hp (YAK 1),it  can keep better the dive in comparation whit another one whit 2500 Kg and 1300 Hp (BF 109 F)?

 

 

 

Where do those figures come from?  Voices in your head? :rolleyes:  

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Merry Christmas to you All guys!

 

Enjoy the best ww2 game available, with or without wobbling, with or without UFOs... It's a great Flight Sim, I think it can / will become even better, so, I also wish you All a GREAT 2016! with All of the Best!!! including new 1C/777 releases !!!!!!!!!

 

Be statically stable and dynamically stable in your lives, should any perturbations occur!  Wobble when necessary ( there are actually many good circumstances under which wobbling a bit / or a lot, helps! )

Edited by JCOMM
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's been 14 years since the first ever Il-2 release, and after all this time one would think we would be past this point. Alas :nea:

 

Amen

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Do you realy think that a plane whit a weight about 3000 Kg whit 1000 Hp (YAK 1),it can keep better the dive in comparation whit another one whit 2500 Kg and 1300 Hp (BF 109 F)?
  BF 109 F4 has a weight of 2890KG with full fuel and ammo. The F4 has 1200hp at 2500 U/min and ~1.3 ata. In this game you have 1350hp at 2700 U/min and 1.42 ata for inadequate 1min.  Yak1 has an equal weight and the engine has 1180hp.

 

If you tell me the YAK 1 get a different drawing wing,and it can turn better...OK!....But you will lose the energy faster whit the same angle attack, always in comparation to the other whit different wing but more light and power.
  F4 climbs better than yak, but only a few m/s. Maybe your adversary use the "what ever rooster" button to hang in the air, when you both are slow If you be fast and save your energy yak is in trouble.
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi

 

Unfortunately for you, i have some experience about real flight world,and virtual world,and never in my life ,i see some many concentrate about lies and silly fantasies,as this title.

I invite you to take parameters that can justify that airplane, that the Studio 777 call that ufo...Yak 1.

It dosent lose energy, it can pull up very quickly even to 200 Kmh whitout unbalance whit flap out,it's can destroy you plane whit 4 shot,but it's not the same for you same calibr whit MG 17,it's can take a nosedive, and to touch the speed over 800 Kmh whitout danmage,when everybody know that after 600 Kmh it's begin to tearing his rivets,it's can collect huge damage even the them wings were in wood material,and it's can to be stable in any manouvre and shot you like a sniper whit bipods so easily....and go on!

If you want there is a nice collection about it in you tube .

And if you want my advice, do not get into this discussion, because you go out defeated hands down....and it is true, i do not like blind fans!

There is the free will, but i dont like that somebody come out whit some irrealistic idea and pass them off as truth.

Whit it, i invite Han to entry in this discussion as to shed light on what i'm saying.

 

Since we are under Christmas Time,and i  will give you my key as present,if somebody can to try ,that what i am saing are lies....and i am not joking!

Try to fly whit BF 109 G2 vs a Yak 1 in same altitude ....4500 mt....and tell me what 's going on in MP....you are dead 100%....it's fly like a light bombarder.

 

How i saied before,this is a video game, but I do not like that someone plagiarism with false information on as aircraft has to fly....and Studio 777 it's a Software House about PC games,and not the Air Force Academy!

In a few words ...It is not the bible of flight....begin to think with your head.

 

Regard

You are talkig about performance of Yak-1 which was proved here that was overmodeled in BOS ( too good performance at high alts, too fast speed, too fast maximum dive speeds and unrealistic flaps down behaviour).   But as we speak stricte flight model and flight immersion Yak-1 behave quite natural to me as computer game could reproduce real life flying immersion.  I can't say the same about German planes in BOS which got strange wobbling ( spring ) effect during pitch movements.  Yak-1 is much more realistic here for me as a real life pilots. Just all.  Im not blind fan ( i think rather opposite) and i know that unfortunately russian planes in these sim were balanced to be more match for German planes which historically in 1941-1942 were much superior then russian ones.

 

But these topic is about wobbling ( spring effect)  which is much more noticable in German planes thats why i tell that Yak-1 or LAgg-3 is much more accurate for me that German planes comparing to real planes behavior in the air.

Edited by 303_Kwiatek

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When was the Yak-1 being over-modeled in BOS proven with solid evidence?  From what I've seen, the developers have stood by their word that if one can quantifiably prove that aircraft performance differs from what it should, they will correct the deficiency.

Edited by Silas
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When was the Yak-1 being over-modeled in BOS proven with solid evidence?  From what I've seen, the developers have stood by their word that if one can quantifiably prove that aircraft performance differs from what it should, they will correct the deficiency.

 

Agree completely.  Very little solid evidence has been offered one way or the other.  However, there has been a vast amount of classic Luftwhining from a number of people who seem to be under the impression that what happens in an online dogfight server is what happened in real life when nothing could be further from the truth.

 

In reality the performance differences of WW2 fighter aircraft in any given year were not vastly different, no one ran there engines at max power all the time, no one took off with a fifty per cent fuel load and there was very little of the round and round we go dogfighting so beloved online.

 

The vast majority of pilots who were shot down by enemy aircraft never saw their attacker.  No experienced pilot entered a dogfight by choice as that was merely a way of handing an initial tactical advantage to your enemy.  The reason the LW hacked down the Russians in droves in the early years of the eastern front was because they had superior tactics and a vastly greater amount of experience....and radios.

 

Not because their aircraft were uber. :salute:   

  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with Kwiatek.

 

Overall, and although I would like some of the issues like the theme of this thread to be addressed, namely the wobbling, there is a feel of realism in all of the aircraft models, that is particular to this sim.

 

I am a bad virtual combat pilot, but I like to try all of the fighters, Axis and Allies. I can easily find their limitations, and get shot down by the opponents.  For me it is clear each of the models has it's pluses and minuses...

 

I can particularly identify their minuses :-), being it the G2, the F4, the A3, the Yak-1, the LagG3, the La-5, the C.202 and even!!! the E7 :-)

 

When I read about the Russian Fighters using overpower or flight characteristics that make them way better than they should be against the German fighters I think about the many times, with or without flaps, with or without an almost empty fuel tank, a G2 easily shot me down. Then, if I fly a G2, I can easily meet some Yak-1 or LagG3 pilot that shoots me down....

 

For me, I still prefer the F4 .... probably turning to the E7 in the Axis side, and the LagG3 or La-5 for the Allies :-)

Edited by JCOMM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When was the Yak-1 being over-modeled in BOS proven with solid evidence? From what I've seen, the developers have stood by their word that if one can quantifiably prove that aircraft performance differs from what it should, they will correct the deficiency.

The too high performance of the Yak-1 at 4000m+ has been proven many times. I don't think it's even disputed by anyone, who has spend 5 minutes to check it himself.

 

That doesn't mean that it's balanced. Otherwise the F-4 wouldn't be too fast as well, which certain people always forget to mention for some reason.

 

It's not easy to get the performance right for all flight conditions and I think that using the Winter conditions at the beginning (with no chance whatsoever for the testers to check the ISA performance) also didn't help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And in reality how often is the Yak-1 flown above 4000m in game or historically  :biggrin:

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

And in reality how often is the Yak-1 flown above 4000m in game or historically :biggrin:

go online,  WOL Server and you will see how often Yak1 is flying above 4000m.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gents fly the 109 and then fly Yak ..see the difference .

Simple . Wobble 109 , stable Yak .

Same joystick on desk , same rudder pedals and throttle , same curve settings .

Different FM. :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

Oh`  is this a FM thread or a Curve settings thread `

If half of you spent as much time flying  instead being in here talking about ` wobbly bits` the servers wouldn't be empty and i would see 70% of you , ......................on-line flying ...lol :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

 

Oh and before some of you have a melt down , i am only joking here . PC world ...Baaa.......... Humbug

 

Have to agree on that one. You cannot blame the wobbling on the heavy handedness of the pilot or on the bad control settings when with same pilot and same setting you get different behaviour in 109 and in Yak. It is simply that the stability characteristics of the 109 on pitch is modelled differently. As simple as that and no need for pages long discussions. It IS a modellization issue.

 

I also don't think that this issue is linked to stabilizer stuff. Afaik FW190 has it too on pitch axis but - for me - does not show this wobble behaviour.

 

In order to prevent ANY conspiratory theory. Try the P40. It has one of the most aweful yaw wobbles in the game imho.

Edited by sturmkraehe
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reading the old topics about the subject would be enough. All the same arguments over and over again don´t have to be repeated every few weeks ;)

 

At least it shows, that every plane in BoS has its own FM. Other sims have one FM for all planes, just with different numbers.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Reading the old topics about the subject would be enough. All the same arguments over and over again don´t have to be repeated every few weeks ;)

 

At least it shows, that every plane in BoS has its own FM. Other sims have one FM for all planes, just with different numbers.

It's repeated because it warrants investigation. Not that hard to understand.

 

Anyway, this topic has devolved into the usual -- heightened emotions and my plane v your plane. That was not the intent.

Edited by Prefontaine

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do what i do , take a Yak out and do some damage , or the Lagg in winter time .

For axis i take stuka and 190 i don't touch the 109 i cant fly it .

Still plenty of fun to be had .

Waiting for next patch and i hope its a good one , We need to get this game stable then work on other silly bugs .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

In order to prevent ANY conspiratory theory. Try the P40. It has one of the most aweful yaw wobbles in the game imho.

 

So right you are!

To bad actually, I was looking forward to it. Now it's just installed on my PC not in use, sad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe the real P40 was known exactly for it's directional instability ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe the real P40 was known exactly for it's directional instability ?

 

Maybe, I can't say though I never read any accounts pilots complaining about directional instability. Nor anyone complaining about wobbling LOL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes,it was indeed.Thats why there was an elongation of rear fuselage and elargement of tail section introduced in F version (IIRC).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Truth must be said,

 

the more I practice, the more I learn to fly the G2, F4 and A3 to the limits, but always taking care of avoiding abrupt inputs, and now using some curves and a central deadzone of 8%, the less I feel the wobbling.

 

Not saying it isn't there, but merely recognizing that after all I have to re-think my theory about it's origins....

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
 
 
 
Why turn around a problem,, when instead ,i't's possible to go straight to the point without losing time?
 
The question about this issue it's very simple:
 
It is true that certain airplanes suffer a excessive effect woopling in comparison to others ?
And if the answer it's yes .... There is a historical documentation that proves this effect in those models?
 
That's all!
Edited by Ltn_F_Baracca

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's repeated because it warrants investigation. Not that hard to understand.

 

Read the old topics, and you see what I mean. I do understand. The plane can be flown without wobbling. Just check the vids of the good pilots. But it is an agil plane (historical correct), and that makes it harder at the PC. You are missing the g-loads, that prevent overcontrolling in RL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Read the old topics, and you see what I mean. I do understand. The plane can be flown without wobbling. Just check the vids of the good pilots. But it is an agil plane (historical correct), and that makes it harder at the PC. You are missing the g-loads, that prevent overcontrolling in RL.

 

 

I've been around the sim community for a long time. No need to go back, I've been part of most of the discussions. 

 

Of course it can be flow without wobbling. Clearly you haven't read the thread -- I posted a video of me doing just that a few pages back. Just because you can fly through it doesn't mean it should be there in the first place. 

 

Thanks for the lecture on G loads in combat, btw. How many hours do you have at high G, fighting another aircraft? Go ahead, ask me the same question. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been around the sim community for a long time. No need to go back, I've been part of most of the discussions. 

 

Of course it can be flow without wobbling. Clearly you haven't read the thread -- I posted a video of me doing just that a few pages back. Just because you can fly through it doesn't mean it should be there in the first place. 

 

Thanks for the lecture on G loads in combat, btw. How many hours do you have at high G, fighting another aircraft? Go ahead, ask me the same question. 

 

Why get so uppity about a simple comment saying that one does not have the same feedback in a sim as in a real aircraft, which is one of the main contributing factors in a 'sim' being harder to fly

 

SOME people who are not experienced pilots in RL will suffer from overcontrolling

 

sheesh!

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...