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PERFORMANCE ISSUES and frame rate issues.


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Many thanks to you and squad mates for taking the time to reproduce it online Mastiff.

 

Yep, saw the complete track in details, full screen 1080p and those stutters are similar.

 

Maybe slighter compared to mine on crowded online server but definitely comparable :

- no big FPS drop impression,

- just seems it lacks some images without interfering with FPS, with long micro freeze feeling creating a large handicap and visual effort to follow a target. 

 

It is very noticeable all along the track :

 

On ground, near control tower, when you take off and left turn taking altitude (with up and down head movements to demonstrate freezes) and become a handicap when you are following, then engaging the 109 adjusting you deflection around 8.34 - 8:35 - 8:36 your squad mate is in the perfect path to shoot but each second he looses multiples frames.  

 

Also multiples frame missing and short freezes when engaging the last 109:  Brilliant deflection shoot @10:30 despite very noticeable freeze @ 10:25 10:26 10:27 while your squad mate is adjusting its trajectory. Until the very end of the track we have this bad stutters impression.   

 

Your video demonstrate that those stutters are perceptible even with not a lot of planes.  

It is much more obvious and becomes a real pain when you are on hot spot with > 10 planes.

 

Thanks again for the track m8 !

Edited by MadisonV44
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So for me its not that urgent since I dont think the mayor part of the community is getting this problems.

 

Take a look at this post from the beginning and see that people have these problems.
With the previous update could fly smoothly with this hurts my eyes flying leaps, it's very annoying that frustrates the simulation experience so I think that should be a priority or people stopped flying this simulator.
 
P.S. I am a lover of this simulator.
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Never saw you avatar on WoL ... did you spent enough time on it, engaging on a hot spot on a summer map (then you should meet the issue) or maybe are you only testing on a sand-box environment only ? 

 

I don't spend a lot of time online, hence why I've probably not seen this particular issue. 

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~S~ Fellows,

 

About the He-111, and other multi crewed AI.

 

Each crew position is one "entity" in and of itself.

 

That is, each crew position is equivalent to one single AI "aircraft", or "pilot", more correctly. Each a "subroutine".

 

So in the case of the He-111, you can have 5 "entities per aircraft", with the addition of  a nose, and belly turret gunner.

 

And so, if you have two fully crewed AI He-111 in close proximity of each other, you now have the eqv. of ten AI Aircrafts.

 

 

Such is the case of all multi crewed aircrafts. Even those piloted by human pilots. Each gunner, is considered an "entity". 

 

Now understanding that, you can see why there is such a problem with 60-70 players = potentially hundreds of, "entities".

 

 

This simulator, with it's DX9 build and tacked on ad hoc Dserver program, is much better suited to smaller a group of pilots.

 

I bring this up to further educate people on what's going on behind the "Iron Curtain", and, inform our future mission writers.

 

 

Good Hunting,

 

!S -Jupp- :salute:

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This simulator, with it's DX9 build and tacked on ad hoc Dserver program, is much better suited to smaller a group of pilots.

 

While it is DX9, that doesn't cause any issues. Aces High is DX9, and it supports over 500 players online. Only 32 or so are visible at anytime. They recently began upgrading to DX11. Guess what? The same visible limit exists. They will continue to support 500+ in the same arena (actually 1000+) but the visible amount is far less (32ish).

 

The Dserver is not tacked on, nor is it ad hoc. RoF has the same Dserver system and it works very well. If this dedicated server is tacked on, all dedicated servers are tacked on - including the vocal's beloved viewed through rose colored glasses (the Il-2 that took about a decade to actually be good).

 

So, please, do not spread misinformation.

Edited by FuriousMeow
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Now, for everyone else having performance issues - here are a few things to try:

 

A) Update your video card drivers to the latest version. I can only recommend that with nVidia cards, as that is what I have and there has been zero degradation in performance but actual improvements. I am running 780Tis in SLI. I always install with the check mark to wipe previous drivers which requires setting up all game profiles again.

 

B) It's worth it to just install from scratch every once in a while. Back up your current settings, or even make a new install to a new directory so you can copy over settings as needed if you have the space. The current price per gigabyte is so cheap that it's silly to not have the space. I have 4 SSDs and 1 platter drive which is reserved for downloads and backups. I have about 500GBs of free space.

 

C) Clean your system up. Make sure all temp folders are clean - for nVidia if you notice there is an option in the drivers to cache shaders, clean that out shader cache folder out and reboot - that actually helped me with Elite Dangerous. Its easily found through Google using nVidia shader cache folder.

 

D) Other system drivers, make sure everything is up to date.

 

I will say that a big help has been a brand new install. I copied over my joystick/input settings and was all set. May not be the best for those that have limited internet allowances, but with software that is constantly updated sometimes it is necessary. I kept moving the original Il-2 from drive to drive because I had so many skins and installed so many different things that I wouldn't be able to do it again to get back to where I was. I finally wiped it all, and my performance improved at least 50%. The one big issue was that every single time a plane crashed - SP or MP, my game froze up for a few seconds. I lived with that for a few years. After the total reinstall, completely gone. Re-install to get software working optimally again is NOT unique to this title.

 

I will say that I don't have any microstutters in MP, the only problem I have is unique to Wings of Liberty server at one airfield East of Stalingrad and only looking South - which doesn't happen anywhere else except WoL, so its something funky with what that server has setup around there.

Edited by FuriousMeow
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@LukeFF, yes it is mainly happening online, this could be an explanation why you had no such stutters mate.  

@Furiousmeow, OK to tests all possible best practices, I will have a look at them even if it seems I already applied the majority. However since it was fine with 1.104 I am not suspecting the drivers settings (I didn't change anything in the meantime) ...

 

A quick question for you Furiousmeow, did you get rid of stutters on massive online missions like WoL ?   

Edited by MadisonV44
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The only issue I have with Wings of LIberty is one airfield that is East of Stalingrad. If I look South, my framerate tanks. It is unique to Wings of Liberty, I can't replicate it anywhere else.

 

Flying Legends also had a lot of individuals on it, and it ran much better than Wings of LIberty does with the equal amount of people.

 

I think Wings of Liberty may need to go back and redesign or re-evaluate their mission design because there have been some odd occurrences on that server recently - like one winter map having contrails at 0 meters and that poor performance isolated to the south of one airfield that goes away when flying towards the direction of the slowness.

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I have observed some micro stuttering too when version 1.04 was introduced. It was offline in single player, and it was slightly different from what Mastiff has in his video - in my case the stutters were less dramatic but more frequent. While I was able to find a workaround that works for me, I still think there is an underlying issue that will need to be looked at, so I'm glad to hear that it's on the agenda.

 

Here's a description of micro stuttering, my setup and observations, and my workaround.

 

What is micro stuttering?
Micro stuttering is a variation in the time it takes to render each frame (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_stuttering). For a graphical representation, see for example: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-geforce-stutter-crossfire,2995-3.html. The framerate can still be high because it is calculated from the average time it takes to render frames. Micro stuttering is mostly observed in setups with multiple GPUs, but can also occur in single GPU setups.

 

My setup and observations
Until recently I used the following system:
- CPU: AMD 1055T @ ~2.85GHz
- GPU: ATI Radeon HD 5870 (1GB)
- RAM: 16GB
- OS: Windows 7 (64bit)

All components were about 5 years old. I was using the latest Radeon drivers from ATI. In hindsight this system seemed to have a good balance between CPU and GPU power. Over the winter maps of BoS (with graphic settings at normal, 4xAA, HDR on, limited to 60FPS), I saw framerates in the low 30's over rural areas and down to the mid 20's over the smoke of Stalingrad. More AI would cause occasional hiccups. I did not notice any micro stuttering (which is why at that point I didn't even know the meaning of the term).

 

When version 1.04 arrived, I experienced a bit of micro stuttering when taxiing on the new summer maps, and when flying very low. Since I was planning to upgrade my box anyway, I thought this was a good time. So I upgraded my CPU, but (scroogily) kept my old GPU (for now). My current setup is:
- CPU: i5 4690 @ ~3.9GHz
- GPU: ATI Radeon HD 5870 (1GB)
- RAM: 16GB
- OS: Windows 7 (64bit)

My BoS graphic settings were still the same: normal, 4xAA, HDR on, limited to 60FPS.

 

Guess how surprised I was when I discovered that the micro stuttering was now much worse than before! Didn't I just throw in a much faster CPU? That's when I started reading up on micro stuttering.

 

Here's my hypothesis: The new fast CPU was pushing frames to the GPU faster than the GPU can process them. Sometimes the GPU could not render them quick enough, which caused little some frames taking more milliseconds to render, as described in the above links. My framerate was around 35 fps - this appears to be the limit of my trusty 5870.

 

My workaround:
After trying all kinds of things over the course of a few days, and when I started to understand the concept of micro stuttering (from the above links), I finally thought: Well, if my average fps is 35, and I get micro stuttering, then the stuttering frames might be just a little slower than 35 fps, maybe around 30 fps. So why not just limit my FPS to 30? And, voila, that did the trick! Framerate locked at 30 FPS, frames are rendered rock solid. And large numbers of AI are not a problem thanks to my new CPU.

 

Now this worked for me, with the unbalanced hardware that I currently have, and it works by sacrificing a few FPS. It might not work for others, and I might encounter other variations of micro stuttering as soon as I upgrade to a better GPU.

 

Thus I'm glad the devs are going to look into this.

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Went online tonight. WoL was empty (tank map with so much stutter that everybody was leaving ... :P less than 20 players ...) so we decided to rejoin Fighting Legend server. 

 

My friend crashed is memory two times in a row, in the meantime I was waiting circling above base waiting for him, a lot of 110 and 109 in my range of vision resulted in huge FPS drop + stutters that I was really exhausted waiting for him. he was about to take off it was actually the end of the map  (almost 45 mn after its first attempts) !!!

 

We were so tired of fighting with elements that when went away.

This is the way it is in a normal BOS evening experience since 1.105

 

Guys, we love this game and its a real heartbreaking to see it go this way

Very sad   

Edited by MadisonV44
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Here's my system:

 

2x 780GT (typically overlocks to 1150MHz on their own) 3GB SLI with a Asus Swift monitor using Vsync. FPS is typically above 70fps, but sometimes dips when areas of lots of smoke (fill rate).

i7 4770k @ 4.4GHz with HyperThreading disabled

16GB G.Skill PC3-12800 XMP-2133

4x SSD (OS and games installed on those)

1x platter disk, download and garbage placed there

1 x Creative SBZ latest drivers

AsRock Z87 Extreme3 Mobo with latest drivers and BIOS (audio, video, and other unnecessary features disabled)

Win 7 64Bit, last update 10.8.2015

Last DX install was run a few months ago.

Saitek X55 joystick and throttle (latest drivers, don't use programming software but it is installed)

Saitek Pro Combat Pedals (latest drivers)

 

 

BoS settings:

Res 2560x1440

Ultra settings

Full Screen

Vsync off

MultiGPU not selected (auto detected)

SSAO off

HDR on

4x Distant landscape detail

FPS limiter Off

4x FSAA

Gamma correction 1

 

Audio:

100% volume

Interface and title music selected

Bit rate High

 

Multiplayer:

Recv and send: 10Mb (50Mb up/down but it never even gets close to 10Mb usage anyway and I have unlimited data usage)

 

nVidia settings:

16x Anisotropic filtering

FXAA off

Gamma correction On (used for antialiasing)

Antialiasing mode application controlled

Antialiasing setting greyed out

Antialiasing transparency Off

CUDA GPUs Off

Max pre-rendered frames Use 3D application

Monitor Technology GSync (probably absent without a Gsync capable monitor)

Multi-display/mixed-GPU accleration Single display performance

Power Management Mode Prefer Maximum Performance

Preferred refresh rate Highest available (probably Gsync related)

SLI rendering SLI (although I have run single card and aside from less FPS, no stuttering)

Shader cache On (but recently wiped)

Texture filtering - anisotorpic sample optimization Off

Texture filtering - Neg LOD bias Allow

Texture filtering - quality High Quality

Texture filtering - trilinear optmization greyed out

Threaded Optimization Auto

Triple buffering Off

VSync Off

VR pre-rendered frames (global setting 1)

 

I don't have any stutters in SP or MP, with one card or both cards. I primarily play MP, SP is only QMB when I want to just try some things out or get some screenshots.

 

If it were a global problem with the title itself, I'd be seeing it too. That's the way of troubleshooting, identify how many it impacts, isolate those that it impacts and work down from there if it doesn't impact all. Keep working down and drilling down from there. That's the downside of PC gaming, so many different combinations and complexities that who knows where the problem is and that's why some developers go to consoles because it is one backbone across the board (software, hardware, controllers) , so it is difficult to identify where the actual issue lay. Not to mention how many different things can be installed on a PC that can conflict or in general are an issue. Not to mention it appears to mostly be MP for those that are experiencing it, so that seems unlikely it is the title itself because it if were graphics issue or CPU bottleneck/general performance problem it would be seen in SP more.

 

I also went through and disabled all unnecessary Windows services - this is a dedicated gaming machine, I don't think even Adobe reader is installed.

Edited by FuriousMeow
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If anyone is running a resolution greater than 1024x768 (and even then, should probably check) with anti-aliasing, then run a GPU-Z and watch the memory utilization.

 

Anti-Aliasing can more than double memory usage. That means the video memory is then stored in system RAM (like AGP video cards, but faster with PCI-E - however not nearly as fast as the memory onboard the video card itself).

 

A 1GB (1024MB) card these days just barely cuts it when using Anti-Aliasing, especially at 1024x768. A 2GB (2048MB) card, also, is just barely making the cut. Even with DX9, because memory usage itself does not know DirectX limits. However, expecting a 1 to 1.5GB card to run 1024x768 with anti-aliasing requires the end user to actually look at their video card's memory usage. I bet it's very close to the limit if not exceeding it.

 

At my resolution, in-game settings, and AA settings I am over 2GB (2094MB) of memory usage. I have a 3GB card (SLI still limits to 3GB, two cards doesn't equal 6GB).

 

I'd suggest actually looking at getting system monitoring tools like CPU-Z and GPU-Z to find out CPU usage, and video card memory usage and GPU % usage. That is primarily for SP users that have poor performance. However, it is worth it for MP users as well to check memory usage. There's less CPU usage (no AI, no AI FM, and no AI DM to calculate), but there could be more video memory usage due to skins, more aircraft being available (not all aircraft have to be loaded to fly so in SP you will have just the two or four planes loaded into video memory but ALL of the planes loaded into memory for MP.)

 

There's a lot to look at to find the actual root of the problem, but if it were the title itself I too would experience it.

 

If the memory usage is high, the first thing to cut is anti-aliasing.

Edited by FuriousMeow
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Memory usage hasn't increased from what I've seen before on my end, and CPU/GPU usage hasn't really either in MP. Overall, it all looks the same but I don't have stuttering except for the one airfield in WoL. So not sure what else could cause it, but if it were the software itself then everyone should experience it. If it's a conflict with the software and some random app that will be difficult to identify. If it is a conflict with a certain piece of hardware, that will be easier to identify if everyone that has the problem looks at their hardware, posts it, and finds a commonality.

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Either way, according to Mastiff, the devs are looking into it. If they find something, great - we all benefit. If not... back to looking at the many different configurations all of us run in the PC world and to due the demanding requirements of an air combat simulator it could be anything as simple a com port needing to be disabled (happened with Red Baron 2 and it impacted a minority of users).

Edited by FuriousMeow
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Well since I have stopped playing I did some testing around last night.  I found that I could not get my 4GB 970 to use more than 2048 of memory no matter what I did.  I remember a year ago when I got the card I did some testing then and depending on the settings was able to reach 3.5 GB on the card.  

 

Last night my memory usage was slammed up against the 2048 ceiling and would not go any more even though it appeared like it needed to.  My micro stutters are small but really annoy the hell out of you.  My guess would be if I could get my card to use its full memory then my stutters might go away.  

 

On the pc console thing. . . There are plenty of pc games that run perfect on many different settings.  (Opinion)  This is the 2nd (1st CLOD) poorest coded pc game I have ever played.

 

Component Details Subscore Base score Processor Intel® Core i7-3770S CPU @ 3.10GHz  (overclocked 4.2GHz) 7.7 7.7   Determined by lowest subscore Memory (RAM) 8.00 GB 7.7 Graphics NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970 7.9 Gaming graphics 7778 MB Total available graphics memory 7.9 Primary hard disk 41GB Free (112GB Total) 7.9 Windows 7 Home Premium

 

System     Manufacturer System manufacturer   Model System Product Name   Total amount of system memory 8.00 GB RAM   System type 64-bit operating system   Number of processor cores 4 Storage     Total size of hard disk(s) 708 GB   Disk partition (C:) 41 GB Free (112 GB Total)   Media drive (D:) CD/DVD   Disk partition (E:) 424 GB Free (581 GB Total)   Disk partition (F:) 6 GB Free (15 GB Total) Graphics     Display adapter type NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970   Total available graphics memory 7906 MB         Dedicated graphics memory 4096 MB         Dedicated system memory 0 MB         Shared system memory 3810 MB   Display adapter driver version 10.18.13.5582   Primary monitor resolution 1920x1080   DirectX version DirectX 10 Network     Network Adapter Intel® 82579V Gigabit Network Connection   Network Adapter Realtek PCIe GBE Family Controller   Network Adapter Broadcom 802.11n Network Adapter   Network Adapter Bluetooth Personal Area Network   Network Adapter Broadcom Virtual Wireless Adapter   Network Adapter Microsoft Virtual WiFi Miniport Adapter

 

I did do a fresh install yesterday and that didn't seem to help.  The graphic drivers are a few months old, but everything was fine with the drivers before the patch.  When customers start losing interest like me because of these problems, it's not real good.  I represent a 200 dollar customer, but I have many pc games that run great.  This is not one of them.  

 

Probably take a Christmas break and check back after next patch.   :salute:

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This isn't poorly coded. As a matter of fact, that is a relative opinion that some have that is totally incorrect because first, those who claim it haven't actually seen the code and second, it actually utilizes multi-core CPUs far better than many AAA titles.

 

Have you played Rise of Flight? That isn't poorly coded, and runs very well with a very complex FM. This title is even more complex. RoF is far more complex than CloD - CloD is Il-2:1946(a decades worth of development)'s FM that is barely more advanced FM. I could delve into that more, but its not the point of this.

 

I am not hitting a 2048 ceiling - you can look above I hit 2094 at one point which is well above 2048, so if you are then it seems like there is an issue localized to your system. That's why I said, PCs are far different than consoles because who knows what someone did to their system.

 

For example the gamers latest haterade title: Fallout 4. Runs great on my system, so many claim it runs like crap. So many claim it crashes all of the time. Not experiencing any of those problems.

 

I represent, adding in RoF, a customer far higher than $200 - a little more than double that. Does that make me anymore valuable? No. Does that invest me more in the product? No. The quality of the product invests me, and the number of air combat games and sims I've played - I know this is far more high quality.

 

I also look to isolate the issue and find out where the true problem is. If someone else says they don't have the same problem, I try to look for a cause for the problem by testing and looking.

 

I finally saw stuttering in Multi-Player on Wings of Liberty while attacking a heavily guarded Ammo Depot. Lots of AA. 11 people online. No stutters until I get to the target area and then a few stutters while trying to go in and bomb, first time that has happened since the latest patch - just a few days ago I attacked a depot that wasn't as heavily defended and never saw that. I'll have to try and see if I can replicate it on other servers and in SP. Wings of LIberty's server is also a 140+ms ping for me. That is a ping triple the amount I should be playing on with a fiber connection.

 

I would play on a server closer to home but everyone runs to WoL for some reason despite it's restrictive loadout.

 

For adequate multiplayer play, that should be less than 50ms unless on dial-up. I went to another server, granted it was empty because for some reason everyone goes to Wings of LIberty despite it's locked load outs and its much higher ping than optimal for US users and I'm betting some far Western European users as well. Did the same attack run on a depot, not as much AA, but it was smooth as glass.

 

Flying Legends also has a very high ping (+100ms).

 

 

Also, a 970GTX - if you do get that memory usage above 3.5GB (which you'd have to add a lot on to do) - the extra 500MB is lower quality memory that will actually induce performance issues.

Edited by FuriousMeow
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I have the opposite issue as snake. Once starting a mission, no matter if MP or SP, memory usage rockets up to 3.7-3.5 Gb on my GTX970. A friend of mine has the same card and Nvidia settings and he has only roughtly more than 2 GB but still same performance issues (strutters, FPS).

 

Also, in my case, memory usage stays at 3.5GB as long as the application is open. When returning back to the main menu I observed my gpu usage nearly is twice the ammiunt of what i had during flight.

 

Sth, sonewhere is very wrong here.

 

System: MSI Gtx970 4G, i5 4570 3,2 Ghz (capped), Gigabyte ZSU87 mainboard, 16Gb Ram 1333 Ghz, HDD 1TB hard drive, Windows 7 Professional

Edited by Stab/JG26_5tuka
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I found that the old method of editing the graphics config file to get the better distance textures could lead to very/too high VRam use

 

Maybe you still have those active? if anyone is still using those it is better to delete and use 4 X in game

 

Cheers Dakpilot

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It's kind of funny Meow, do you not remember we had the same conversation about a year ago.  You told me and everyone back then that it must be a local problem.  Even though it never got perfect, the Devs made good strives back then to correct their bad patch.  (the G2 patch)  

 

My guess is maybe a year from now we will look back on the (tank patch) and come to the same conclusion.  

 

 

p.s.  I do wish there would be a popular US server.  My ping on Wings of Limitations is in the 160s.   :unsure:  

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wow mastiff - that is horrible....and you still do better than me - maybe they cant see you behind them when you are stuttering lol. - btw that was FL server not WOL.

.

i normally dont get stutters. just rarely and they dont last long - however, i believe it was that session of your video i was shooting at a stuka and the screen just froze - wouldnt move - thought it was a CTD, but it came back to game after about 10secs - just before i hit the ground. never had that happen b4.

.

my pc is not as big as furiousmeows. dont know all the specs right now, but i know its an i7, gtx780, win8.1 ...my pings are worse than meow's, with WOL being over 200 most of time and FL being near 150s

Edited by Gump
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Friends, I feel this in Spanish.

 

but I have prepared a small guide as temporarily solve these problems. this Link is the Escuadron69 are my recommendations to my colleagues Squad

 

 

I hope someone your assistance

 

http://www.escuadron69.net/v20/foro/index.php?/topic/63799-configuraciones-graficas/

 

Salute Friends Lothar29

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I went looking but I couldn't find the path to this setting.  Do you remember where it is?

I found that the old method of editing the graphics config file to get the better distance textures could lead to very/too high VRam use

 

Maybe you still have those active? if anyone is still using those it is better to delete and use 4 X in game

 

Cheers Dakpilot

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I went looking but I couldn't find the path to this setting.  Do you remember where it is?

The original file is gone. You have to insert a newly made file to get changes. File Was Originally posted by Coconut somewhere's.

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Thanks,I'll check it out.

 

As said above delete the terrain .cfg file if you have it

 

It is redundant/hidden now, unless people still wanted to experiment with 8X etc. by creating a new one, many did and may still have forgotten they still have this file laying laying around

 

Cheers Dakpilot

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A bit of speculation. I usually do not play SP, but for sake of experiment tried playing over a dozen of quick missions with 16 or so fighters. There was no stutters and even when FPS were in the low, game felt way smoother than in MP. However, I noticed one interesting thing: sometimes it felt like in game time fluctuates, and it was like game missed some ticks and then tried to catch up by accelerating things. If game also misses ticks in MP, but is forced to be in sync with server, it can't just accelerate things like in SP, and it probably just jumps to correct time frame causing a stutter.

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