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Developer Diary, Part 114 - Discussion

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We introduced Mouse Controls in ROF a couple years ago, I was very much against it, but because of the way it was designed it did not destroy gameplay or make instant aces out of mouse flyers. So now I support it. I am confident it will be the same case in BOS.

 

Those of you who a upset about the inclusion of mouse controls need to remember that the hardcore market is smaller these days and if we don't find a way to bring in new users, it all crashes and there will be nothing new. The core technology of this product is still hardcore. Adding some new options helps the cause.

 

Jason

 

Period.

 

Well said Jason.

 

More options, more players, more money, more budget, more business, and yes...why not....more profit. When we'll get this point i'm asking for? Everytime we have news we have also to complian about htis or that new features.

 

We'll play in our hardcore servers without mouse.

 

Personally i would create now if i was you (1C -777) a new core business for tanks, just to take "some" of the thousand players who pay money to play WoT.

 

They love hardcore sim like us, so don't worry. We should have learned this after so many years of RoF.

 

Business does require money.

Edited by 150GCT_Veltro
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implementing mouse control in a sim is like implementing autoaim in counter strike or doom. some things just aren't done.

 

and i think the idea that it will bring in new blood is ultimately a fallacy. rise of flight did not get more popular, it got less popular over time and mouse control did nothing to save it.

 

but i don't really care. i play sp exclusively. mp is too much air quake already and this just seals the deal.

Edited by johncage
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I'm at best a mediocre simmer, I only fly RoF and now BoS, in Normal difficulty.

I have a joystick (MS FF2), but no pedals, no HOTAS, no TiR, so mouse control should be an option to me.

But... I tried it in RoF, back when it came out. I felt like I put my pants on backward, totally unconfortable.

Yes, less bouncing around, but feels like flying in molassa, slow response, had to resort to keyboard for everything, no way to look around and steer the plane at same time...

Back to joystick for Me.

 

If it's the same system as in RoF, I doubt that mouse players will be a threat. I also think that will be of little use to attract new players. One do not spend 50 bucks to fly a sim with the mouse, but I could be wrong.

Better wait the release, before draw conclusions.

 

:salute:

Fazer.

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As a fellow hardcore simmer I'm all for the mouse aim. Whatever brings in more players and gets people hooked on the sim we love I'm all for. Trust me guys these types of players won't be in our expert difficulty servers, it won't bother us. But lets not forget most people who purchase this game fly offline, so why not let them enjoy this game and get info flight sims without a joystick however they choose?

 

Tanks sound fun may have to try those out.

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7. ATA limiter removed from P-40E-1 since there was none on this model. You can increase pressure above 45.5 for a limited time. If in-game engine helper is switched off (Expert mode), it won't return to normal values automatically after spending time limit, potentially breaking the engine.

Time to put the P-40 to 70" :)

 

But I can't wait to get sniped from 1km whilst the guy is stalling WT.

Edited by RoflSeal

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Great DD, thanks for the update :)

 

1. Bf110 looks ands sounds fantastic.  Can't wait to sit in the cockpit myself!

 

3. Not bothered about mouse-control as it won't affect me at all.  I can see how it's a good thing for the developers and the sim to widen the potential audience.

 

2. Addition of tanks is great, but if you're going to do it at all, please don't forget us single-players.  We'd like to drive them and have missions/campaigns for them as well ;)

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Excited about this release. There's nothing I dislike in the list of points. These points especially caught my attention:

 

 

"T-34-76 made by Stalingrad Tractor Factory, model of 1942" and "PzKpfw III Ausf. L" will be available for all owners of our project.

6. Head movement in cockpit limitation system changed:
9. Bf 109 G-2 engine reacts to throttle axis in a more convenient way.
17. Bf 109 tail reinforced to make it more resistant to taxiing over rough ground.
36. Target destruction messages ('player destroyed something') are visible only for the player coalition in multiplayer (so they won't reveal the player position to the enemy).
41. New feature: ability to automatically login and load a certain mission or replay. Use config file <game_folder>\data\autoplay.cfg.

 

I wasn't expecting the tanks to be available for free. I guessed they might be during a test period, but if I understood correctly the first item the devs are actually giving these two tanks away for free. That's pretty generous of them! I'm not sure what "owners of our project means", is it anyone who has bought the game?

 

Point 6. never bothered me too much because I'm not much of a competitive player, but it felt a bit wrong nevertheless and I'm glad it's being addressed.

 

Point 9. wasn't a big issue to me, but was annoying me quite a bit anyway. And apparently it was a big issue for many. I'm surprised I'm not seeing more alleluias, mouse control is getting all the attention it seems.

 

Point 17. is nice, but I wonder if it's enough. From a mission designer perspective, it's annoying to have to move all German spawn points because planes fall apart. Was this problem limited to the G2?

 

Point 36. is something I reflected over. As a mission designer, if you want to inform a team their objectives are being attacked, you can do that using subtitles. No need for the chat to always give that info away, when there are situations where you might want to hide or delay that information.

 

Point 41. is also very nice to have for third-party tool developers that build stuff around the game.

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Excited about this release. There's nothing I dislike in the list of points. These points especially caught my attention:

 

 

 

I wasn't expecting the tanks to be available for free. I guessed they might be during a test period, but if I understood correctly the first item the devs are actually giving these two tanks away for free. That's pretty generous of them! I'm not sure what "owners of our project means", is it anyone who has bought the game?

 

Point 6. never bothered me too much because I'm not much of a competitive player, but it felt a bit wrong nevertheless and I'm glad it's being addressed.

 

Point 9. wasn't a big issue to me, but was annoying me quite a bit anyway. And apparently it was a big issue for many. I'm surprised I'm not seeing more alleluias, mouse control is getting all the attention it seems.

 

Point 17. is nice, but I wonder if it's enough. From a mission designer perspective, it's annoying to have to move all German spawn points because planes fall apart. Was this problem limited to the G2?

 

Point 36. is something I reflected over. As a mission designer, if you want to inform a team their objectives are being attacked, you can do that using subtitles. No need for the chat to always give that info away, when there are situations where you might want to hide or delay that information.

 

Point 41. is also very nice to have for third-party tool developers that build stuff around the game.

Agreed. Too many good things at once.

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Thanks , very good , more players for the best SIM ...

Better , more popular and compatible . I like in multiplayer the tanks go to flags and destroy airfields , very good idea ...

 

 

 

&

For The future FW 190 A5 1.65 Ata -of(1943).

 

My new Pc :Intel Core i7 5930K soket 2011-v3 , Asus Rampage V Extreme USB 3.1 , liquid cooled Reserator 3 MaX , 64 GB of RAM ,

for Overclock +50% , Win 10 Pro , NVidia TITAN X & SSD Crucial -DDR-8 GB - 2400MHZ DIMM .

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I cant wait to try the 110 out too ... I had so much damn fun in IL2 with the beast.

 

Overall its coming along quite nicely. Mouse control: I don't care what it takes ... as long as my hand is on a stick, its WWII and a 'warmer weather' option might be on the horizon!  :biggrin:

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Its no Ju-52 but these new things look great.

 

Mouse support will be awesome to get more players(got a friend who needs that) and more players = more content --> flyable Ju-52

Edited by McKvack
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Its no Ju-52 but these new things look great.

 

Mouse support will be awesome to get more players(got a friend who needs that) and more players = more content --> flyable Ju-52

This is the most brilliant example of logic I have ever seen on any forum.

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Looks like a great patch, i've been waiting for the bf110 for a long time and it looks amazing in that video. Good job guys.

Mouse controls are great, I'll be able to get some buddies into this game now. They like warthunder but moving over to joystick was a bit overwhelming for them (they're lazy.) I'll be able to get them into this now and then slowly talk them into dusting off the old joystick and joining a real server for men :)

Thanks for adding the joystick only flags that saves the day.

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3. Mouse controls...

Well, this is probably great for someone not me. I, otoh, would really like to be able to set throttle/prop pitch/mixture/flap setting/radiator/etc. to specific settings with my keyboard instead without fiddling with some stupid +/- keys only only to ...missed...bit less ... wait a little more ... nah, almost, just a little less ... a little lesssss, darn, a bit more again... you get the picture. It's three years old, and near 15 behind original Il-2.

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Point 9. wasn't a big issue to me, but was annoying me quite a bit anyway. And apparently it was a big issue for many. I'm surprised I'm not seeing more alleluias, mouse control is getting all the attention it seems.

It will get my applause if it is historically correct now, just "more convenient" is no reason to celebrate. ;)

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Well, this is probably great for someone not me. I, otoh, would really like to be able to set throttle/prop pitch/mixture/flap setting/radiator/etc. to specific settings with my keyboard instead without fiddling with some stupid +/- keys only only to ...missed...bit less ... wait a little more ... nah, almost, just a little less ... a little lesssss, darn, a bit more again... you get the picture. It's three years old, and near 15 behind original Il-2.

 

All of those can be mapped to something that isn't + or - keys, like a rotary or a slider. The flaps aren't finely adjustable for all planes, so they can't go on a slider or rotary because then the planes that have only stepped settings won't work properly on a rotary or a slider. The only thing I have on two keys are trim, and they are just fine that way. Some planes also used two keys to adjust trim (190), so it's accurate for that. For the ones with the wheel adjusted, it's not going to be any faster putting them on rotary knobs.

 

I'm also more interested in other items and seeing certain things, but since this isn't made just for me - I am fine with them doing what they want to build this for more individuals.

Edited by FuriousMeow

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http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/7-questions-developers/page-17?do=findComment&comment=115283

Nobody expects casual players will coming. They need mouse control to play which do not planned. But b&w position also not correct. I`m personally playing with MS FFB only with no pedals or quadrants or else. Who i am? Casual? No. I can call myself midcore player. I like FM and DM but don`t  like too much controls and wires. And our core audience from my pov exactly the same as me. Also we have some small % of hardcore players (like you may be) and casual players (from warthunder may be).


 

Do not planned, only presetups,

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i am quite confident that someone who is rdy to bring up the dough for this title (yeah it's expensive) will probably have no issue to put in some extra cash after trying mouse for a simple twist stick if he/she is "bitten" by the bug of sims....

WT is free to play so our "doorstep" is quite higher. mouse is a non-issue for many reasons Other than the positive side effect of maybe giving us some fresh blood. If they stay they will get a stick eventually, if they don't stick around then we had a noob amongst us for a few days who will not only lack the skill (yes Skill) of armchair piloting but also having to deal with an inferior device setup.

 

this is only good news..and the 110 looks like it needs..... me in it

Edited by SvAF/F19_Klunk

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It's good that the mouse control option was added. It will bring in more players and fund more game. It's not a surprise since it's already in ROF and the icon has been on the BoS servers for some time. It's good to have the option to segregate the players online so it's a win-win.

I've tried it for myself in RoF and I find it impossibly difficult to use. So that's good ;-)

A mouse isn't any more advantage than a HOTAS Warthog with an extension and Crosswind pedals and four monitors. So bring it on.

I don't really care what controller anyone uses as long as there's actually more players online. More is better. Good news guys!

Edited by SharpeXB

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I'm certain we won't see a massive influx of War Thunder players because we don't have multiplayer YOU GOT XP flashing across the screen.

 

Dont give "new ideas"!  :lol:

Edited by Sokol1

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It's good that the mouse control option was added. It will bring in more players and fund more game.

 

 

People keep saying that....

 

 

 

I've tried it for myself in RoF and I find it impossibly difficult to use. So that's good ;-)

 

 

If it's impossibly difficult to use, how will it bring in more players?... hello?

 

:ph34r:

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Love to see the new update.

I am thrilled with all the new things added to the sim.

Especially the Me110, and the fact that the BOM planes will be usable in the BOS campaigns.

The throttle of the 109 is corrected and the headmovement reduced to somewhat more realitic values.

 

I fly HOTAS, but mouse control for people that just found this sim and want to try it out a bit is fine with me.

I guess they will like it and buy real hardware to fly those kites.

 

Curious about the tanks.

Is it only for MP, or can I just drive around in one in SP?

 

All in all, I love this new update.

Can't wait till tuesday.

 

Thanks devs  :)

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This a thousand times.  Either the grumpy old men with their metre meter extended flight stick and 4 monitors can accept a trickle(It won't be more than that) of new blood who want to learn something new(even with crippling disadvantages) , or they can continue to play among themselves until they all die off and there's no one left

 

 

 

<~~~~~~Grumpy old man here

 

 

We would also gladly play by ourselves as he have for many years in IL-2 1946. A game that is still active BTW. Talk about grumpy; see your own quote above. Every mouse user I ever met acts just like you. Because you don't want the truth to be made light made light of.

 

What ever they do, it will only turn this into WT all over again. It may as well be a touch screen game after that. Just keep your finger on the plane and shoot. And BTW none of us who are "Grumpy" ever said we hated mouse users. We just hate playing against you and being trolled when we are actually trying to simulate combat. Even in 'Full SIM' mode (back when it was called that in WT) it still made you and instant Ace. Especially if you have the UFO La-7 or I-153.

 

I say to solve this just make mouse only servers. No feature locking just pick a type of server to be run. Sure it will be packed with 10-16yr old's cussing non stop and threatening violence on chat or TS...but hey it's what you are defending right?

 

 

 

P.S. I fixed your quote. And I only have one 23" monitor and an X-52 Pro w/o pedals.

Edited by 6./ZG1=SPEKTRE76

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Yes but mouse allows for way more precise aiming and better lead when shooting at long range.

Doesn't sound that bad until you get an enemy firing at you 500 meters below and stalling, and still managing to hit you.

 

That already happens in full real.  It's called the Yak Helicopter with a 720 twist to nose low 400 kmh recovery...if get all 10s from the judges it adds to your overall mission score.

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Not to be rude, but it is ironic that people are reacting about the hypothetical rude youngsters causing a fuss... By causing a fuss. Grumpy people of all ages are a pain in the rear, and when we talk about a feature that is absolutely optional and may benefit someone whose stick broke for example it kind of feels like a big storm in a very, very tiny espresso cup.

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Curious about the tanks.

Is it only for MP, or can I just drive around in one in SP?

 

My understanding is that the only missions available on release will be two multiplayer ones. People will be able to create their own single player missions in the editor though.

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If it's impossibly difficult to use, how will it bring in more players?... hello?

 

Possibly there are players who are more used to this type of control. I can never adapt to a mouse or gamepad thumb stick for controlling a plane because the Y-axis is inverted. So it's impossible for me to adapt to it. I had that problem before I even discovered a joystick. To use this kind of control you'd have to be totally unaware of how a real aircraft is controlled. If I even have a gamepad I'll try to pull back to climb then to shoot I'll slip into thinking I'm playing an FPS and my mind inverts the control.

I can't stand playing arcade flying games with my little nephews on the console. It makes me crazy.

 

I'm sure some people will like this mode though though.

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Great update with lots of big and small issues getting fixed! I'm looking forward to the patch.

You huys are setting the bar very high!

 

I have no issues with giving people the option to use the mouse controls. It's pretty obvious that it's a smart move from the devs, to include a bigger audience that might not be fully equipped to run a sim (trackIR, joysitck etc).

 

Those complaining, should read the post again, and pay more attention. It's fully optional and you can set the MP servers to be joysick only. If you dont want to, you dont have to use it or even meet anyone on MP that does. Problem solved!

 

Also, i dont think it will give you any advantages since you lose a lot of control over the plane's exact movements. We will have to try it to really be sure, but i can see how using HOTAS + TrackIR can have a bigger edge than using a mouse only.

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Looks like a nice update. Can't wait to watch some tank vids. I especially like the direction you devs are going with the PoV movement. Any plans to code some dynamic physics and wobbles for the PoV? Would look great on rough landings. 

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I am clueless about mouse control, perhaps that's why I do not understand why there would be an aiming reticle and such a sweet ability to aim when in external (F2) view as in the video.  That seems REALLY arcade.  Will joystick users now be able to select a "follow" view and aim in external view?  Maybe an option to "lock on target" and have the onboard systems calculate a firing solution?  Just kidding of course but the external view guns idea just seems bizzare...is it just necessary with mouse control?

 

My bad... I had never played with external views, seems like F4 always was there and is more or less the view of which i speak, but still...a reticle to aim and shoot?

Edited by Sandhill

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I am clueless about mouse control, perhaps that's why I do not understand why there would be an aiming reticle and such a sweet ability to aim when in external (F2) view as in the video. That seems REALLY arcade. Will joystick users now be able to select a "follow" view and aim in external view? Maybe an option to "lock on target" and have the onboard systems calculate a firing solution? Just kidding of course but the external view guns idea just seems bizzare...is it just necessary with mouse control?

Necessary to get the War Thunder audience

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External view shouldn't have a aiming crosshair if players using s joystick don't have it. I play expert so I have no idea what flies there. I don't mind mouse aimers who are confined to the cockpit as joystick users are. 

Edited by driftaholic

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