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Developer Diary, Part 114 - Discussion

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S! Expert server 1st person only problem solved.

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However it's possible to create a user scenario where a player controlling a tank can participate in a large AI battle with ground and air forces involved. We can add the best of such scenarios created by players to the game (by author permission of course).

I will see what I can do. In the past I had build some detailed AI tank battles for test purposes, it shouldn't be to difficult to add a player controlled tank to such a scenario.

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I don't see how the Mouse mode would impact gameplay for the current playerbase in any way or shape - We all are Joystick users anyway, why would we bother with mouse mode, except if we wanted to? If anything it'll atract new players to the game, that are new to the Sim-experience. Isn't that something we want?  ;)

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Great, then don't use it. The point is, mouse control is for people who don't have a joystick to be able to play the game with a mouse. That's it. No one is taking away your HOTAS. 

 

Relax already.

Agreed. In fact i think the veterans among us will nothing but apprechiate the new and easy "mousepray":)

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Great, then don't use it. The point is, mouse control is for people who don't have a joystick to be able to play the game with a mouse. That's it. No one is taking away your HOTAS. 

 

Relax already.

I don't think I am the one who needs to relax..i'm calm

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Oh I had missed this the first time:

 

5. Planes made for Battle of Moscow are added to Battle of Stalingrad campaign as AI controlled planes based on their real life participation in the battle (they appear in certain time periods): La-5 ser.8, MC.202 ser.8, Bf 109 E-7, Bf 110 E-2, I-16 type 24 and P-40E-1. This makes the campaign more interesting and its chapters more diverse.

This is awesome and much awaited.

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I'm fine with mouse control, I just don't understand why it is not the mouse position that gets translated to aileron and elevator setting directly but a helper that steers the plane to a certain point, this way it takes everything away about the feeling for control surfaces.

 

BTW: Nice update!

Edited by Jordan

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Does it give slower performance though ( I'm not accusing anyone of nerfing, just interested in what it means for performance)

Speed is slightly higher than before.

 

As for mouse control, the only advantage I'm seeing is when landing. Fighting is definitely much harder with mouse control. But even if people are worried about anything, they can just stick to joystick only servers, so I can't really understand the fuzz.

Edited by Matt
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1 and 2 are good news BUT:

 

I'm very concerned about the planes mouse controlls. The description is not clear about it (plane can stall and spin in mouse controlls vs. "Pilot wil only fly it within the limits") and some (if not the most importened) strongpoints of mosue controll are not being touched at all, even though it's clearly visible in the video.

 

That major concern is: Accurancy. From the video it looks like a player flying with mouse controlls is equiped with a fly by wire system that automoaticly stabilizes the aircraft, even when flying threw turbulences, pulling harsh manouvres or maybe even a bumpy landing that normally requires high pilot skill to overcome. This is a MAJOR advantage over joystick controlls.

 

Next thing is the logic of players moving on to joysticks. No, frankly this is not going to happen. Gaijin told the same to please their simmers but infact only few mouseaimers made the transition to flying wiht a joystick (most stick with the "easy mode" for minimal effort and "lots of killz without requiring skillz").

 

There's only a few reasons the same might not be the case in BoS/BoM. One of them being the price tag, which should turn quite a few WT fellows off. Second is the lack of MP grind options, means players don't usually fly with only $$$ in their eyes.

 

Also, with a radical gameplay influrencing feauture like that, a comunity split is nearly unavoidable. Even if it's only a minority that ends up using mouse controlls they'll not feel integrated becaue of their either advantaged or disadvantaged controll type

 

What I really wish as mouse controll type is a "mouse-joystick" mode similar to the one in WT (which is allowed in Sim battles). In that mode a circle with a cursor inside is displayed in the center of the screen. The cursor can be moved inside the circle freely and represents the relative joystick movement. There's no autostabilisation or aiming helper whatsoever, only a translation of 2d mouse input into a 3d world. This is the perfect compromise that gurantees no great advantages since no auto correction system is involved. It consequently requires more skill than "mouse aim" which closes the skill gap between joystick players and mouse users further.

 

That's my opinion about mouse aim. Pls consider this feauture VERY wisely. The way it looks in the video I consider it too accurate and the auto corrcetion too present. At least a slight reaction delay for the auto correction system would be adequate.

Edited by Stab/JG26_5tuka
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If you are a MP person, stick to only Joystick servers and you have no worries. So I dont see why the fuzz about it at all, Its not like they will force people to fly against others players with mouse.

 

If you still so worry about it, I invite you to try it with RoF and you will see how's the deal...

 

Reading again, it is available in expert mode. But, it seems users won't be able to roll (barrel) or do other manoeuvres so will be at a disadvantage in that sense. I think some of the online aces will eat up anyone on mouse control, just like they do to me!

It's available if the server owner wants, its giving options to everyone. I'm sure that if SYN server goes back live, it will be a only Joysticks server so no mouse control allowed.

 

Cheers

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Looks like a great update.  The 110 should be a blast.

 

When i was reading about the mouse control feature, I figured there would be many opposed to having it in mp servers.  I am not so sure it gives the user any flight advantage whatsoever, in fact, it will be a disadvantage.  To the rest of us using joysticks the ones using a mouse will be indistinguishable from any other aircraft.  Sounds like more targets to me.  My only concern is the type of person it may attract, i.e., someone with little concern for others in the game, no knowledge of the most basic airfield protocols, kamikazes, etc.  Maybe the best approach is allow it and see what happens.  It can always be shut down.

 

Any word on a fix for invisible planes in mp?

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If you are a MP person, stick to only Joystick servers and you have no worries. So I dont see why the fuzz about it at all, Its not like they will force people to fly against others players with mouse.

 

If you still so worry about it, I invite you to try it with RoF and you will see how's the deal...

 

Cheers

The thing is that MP is still very low crouded atm with joystick only guys. Once the mouse to jyostick ratio rises to 2:1 there'll probably be only mouse servers availabel.

 

Also, compared to RoF we have way more nimble, fast and accurate aircraft in BoS that additionally appeal to a wider audience than WW1 biplanes, so any advantage this mode gives will effect the game twice as heavily as in RoF.

 

Again all mistakes that can result from this have been done in WT. I can see the devs intent of fishing in their pool of players but the risks of failure are very high.

 

 

Of course the rest of the update sounds nice. I'm very happy to see some ancient bugs like the G-2 throttle being dealt with so I'm quite looking forward to this update, even with 3. leaving a bad taste in my mouth.

Edited by Stab/JG26_5tuka

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Options are coming thick and fast... options to use tanks, options to use mouse assisted flying and aiming.... now, how about the option to use rotary trim controls?... that's an option that many people have been asking for.

 

Some good stuff in the latest update by the way....

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Asgar - give it a rest. It won't affect you, with your HOTAS and whatever, play the game. That should be fairly clear from the DD, various replies, and, if you are really worried, check Rise of Flight. A similar (identical?) system has been in place for months.

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Lovely list on the next update, thanks devs.

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invisible planes? never saw any :lol:

A non habitual and hard to reproduce bug that the devs already are aware of. Only need to wait for them to find a realable fix.

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Well.. one good thing is that we will be able to do more accurate measurement of climb rates and turn times as maintaining a constant angle of attack will be much easier over time with mouse control. FM discussion will gain much from it i think. 

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I think the mouse aim is a good idea, it may bring some new players in :)

But I don't really agree with some of you guys saying it will ruin the game when ther'll be far more mouse aimers. It's not a free game, and doesn't have as much planes as WT, so I don't think the basic guy who wants to play out with planes will buy it when he can have WT for free, and get more planes for it. So this will still be for a specific (but larger than now) public, a one willing to try it out, interested, but maybe not to the point of buying a stick :)
I personnaly am not concerned about this, I look at it as a good thing :)

And don't forget that it's a test version, it woun't be perfect, but it also woun't be a definitve version ;) If the devs find out that it isn't as balanced as they wanted it to be, I'm sure they'll fix it ! :)

I'm looking forward for this update ! Especially the tanks and air missions, combinig both ! :D

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Predictably, the mouse control has stirred a bit of controversy. In the end I don't think it's going to matter much. Joystick is going to be far superior in almost every aspect.

 

Even if this mode offers slightly better accuracy (which I seriously doubt, the 'safe mode' will make quick adjustments too slow, even if the plane becomes more stable) the limits in what maneuvers can be pulled will far outweigh the posible slight accuracy advantage.

 

You know what it's going to feel like flying against mouse users? It's going to be like fighting less predictable AI. Perhaps they're gonna be a bit more accurate in their aim, but a joystick user can outfly them with ease.

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Nice update but......... I will not be flying in a server that has 'Mouse Control' activated. This was 50% of the reason I left War Thunder. It give player an unfair advantage in combat. They will always be able to hit you no matter what. I think this is a very bad move on your part. I hope I read the update wrong. I really hope server admins can decide to close that type of control and allow stick only.

 

 

"Minimal skillz with lots of killz"  - Stuka

 

 

+ 1,000,000,000,000,000,000

Edited by 6./ZG1=SPEKTRE76
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Interesting update.. I like the fact that server hosts can disable mouse controls.... Otherwise that would be a huge issue.. I don't imagine too many MC servers will be up when it is all said and done but having the option does not hurt.

 

Agree with you IF mouse control remains a helper for new and inexperienced pilots on dedicated MC servers only (just like Normal mode server with Icon and external views can coexist with distinct Full Expert servers). It could be a good way to recruit newcomers that will attracted by an Expert full flight experience with Joysticks in a second phase.  

 

BUT ...   please devs and server hosters (especially WoL), always keep in mind that the MC / Normal servers must be kept separated from the Experts ones and that MC control should not be allowed Expert mode in any case. Otherwise, I agree with Bearcat, that would be a huge issue and the end of the story for hardcore pilots. 

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I'm surprised they implemented mouse aim and not mouse joystick.

 

I'm also surprised no one talked about the tweak on yacks flap :)

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That's not at all how the new mouse control works though.

he never said it was

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Amazing update again thanks!


I'm also surprised no one talked about the tweak on yacks flap :)

 

I noticed that as well :)

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he never said it was

No, but he's afraid, that they now introduce that kind of control, when it's always been possible in BoS anyway.

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That's funny. You can control planes like this since the very beginning of early access inBoS, by using the mouse for elevator and ailerons.

 

That's not at all how the new mouse control works though.

Even better. It only requires a fancy inerface than and it's perfect.

 

No, but he's afraid, that they now introduce that kind of control, when it's always been possible in BoS anyway.

You must have mixed up sth. The video I showed was Mouse Joytsick (the mode I promoted) and not Mouse Aim. Compare this video with "Sneakside's" flight in the Bf110 and you'll see why I did say it's better.

Edited by Stab/JG26_5tuka
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Also guys, Please read the whole thing..

 

Han: "Furthermore, in case a part of the community feels they want to play only with players who use a joystick, we added a special option to dedicated server configuration that allows a server owner to restrict the control scheme to joystick."

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You must have mixed up sth. The video I showed was Mouse Joytsick (the mode I promoted) and not Mouse Aim. Compare this video with "Sneakside's" flight in the Bf110 and you'll see why I did say it's better.

You're right, i misunderstood.

 

Still, the new mouse control is not comparable to how it works in Warthunder and it will be up to the server admins (and consequently, the players) to even have it avaliable in MP. It's an option like normal mode and just because normal mode might attract more players, you don't find many popular servers with normal mode right now. It will be the same with mouse control.

Edited by Matt

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Closing the server for those guys wanting to experience fully developed MP environment is not the best way how to atract more players into MP.And thats what most of you MP guys want - more players,If I was a potential mouse control user (for whatever reasons) I would feel offended and discriminated by such posts and restrictions.How about closing server for people who does not have TIR,pedals,big screen monitor or whatever? This moaning about unfair advantages of mouse control BEFORE it is even tried out is really pathetic.Together with that anoying elitarist approach to anything that differs from your perfect expert simmer world.On the other hand,coming from usual suspects and doomsday prophets,I do not wonder...

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We introduced Mouse Controls in ROF a couple years ago, I was very much against it, but because of the way it was designed it did not destroy gameplay or make instant aces out of mouse flyers. So now I support it. I am confident it will be the same case in BOS.

 

Those of you who a upset about the inclusion of mouse controls need to remember that the hardcore market is smaller these days and if we don't find a way to bring in new users, it all crashes and there will be nothing new. The core technology of this product is still hardcore. Adding some new options helps the cause.

 

Jason

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Read... the... %#%*% DD... before... you get hysterical... about things that is explained thoroughly in it..

People see "Mouse Control"... and stops reading....... and freak out.

Magic words: optional on server

 

 

geez

Edited by SvAF/F19_Klunk
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I'm indifferent to mouse control because 1) I don't know how it works but based on the description I can't see any way of them having any kind of an advantage, but many disadvantages, and 2) Servers can block mouse control.

 

If anyone thinks this sim is going to be flooded with mouse control, well maybe in Normal mode with external views but certainly not on Expert difficulty servers which doesn't impact me at all. And if there are dozens of mouse control normal difficulty servers out there - awesome. That means more money for the devs to get a larger team and do more. I am certain it won't be that way, and I'm certain we won't see a massive influx of War Thunder players because we don't have multiplayer YOU GOT XP flashing across the screen.

 

I'm confident that the mouse control players on Expert servers are going to be more airborne targets than much competition.

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Once you see how easy it is to shoot down people who are using mouse control you will want the server filled with people using mouse control.

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I'm indifferent to mouse control because 1) I don't know how it works but based on the description I can't see any way of them having any kind of an advantage, but many disadvantages, and 2) Servers can block mouse control.

 

If anyone thinks this sim is going to be flooded with mouse control, well maybe in Normal mode with external views but certainly not on Expert difficulty servers which doesn't impact me at all. And if there are dozens of mouse control normal difficulty servers out there - awesome. That means more money for the devs to get a larger team and do more. I am certain it won't be that way, and I'm certain we won't see a massive influx of War Thunder players because we don't have multiplayer YOU GOT XP flashing across the screen.

 

I'm confident that the mouse control players on Expert servers are going to be more airborne targets than much competition.

..and I am quite sure the developers have a Very clear picture what Not to become.

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Closing the server for those guys wanting to experience fully developed MP environment is not the best way how to atract more players into MP.And thats what most of you MP guys want - more players,If I was a potential mouse control user (for whatever reasons) I would feel offended and discriminated by such posts and restrictions.How about closing server for people who does not have TIR,pedals,big screen monitor or whatever? This moaning about unfair advantages of mouse control BEFORE it is even tried out is really pathetic.Together with that anoying elitarist approach to anything that differs from your perfect expert simmer world.On the other hand,coming from usual suspects and doomsday prophets,I do not wonder...

 

 

This a thousand times.  Either the grumpy old men with their metre extended flight stick and 4 monitors can accept a trickle(It won't be more than that) of new blood who want to learn something new(even with crippling disadvantages) , or they can continue to play among themselves until they all die off and there's no one left.

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