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jcomm-il2

Still difficult to blackout...

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I am still able to perform high G maneuvers, at least in the E7, but also on the Yak1, LaGG, Fw190, without suffering blackout ....

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Yes, me too sometimes, but under extreme circumstances...

 

I believe it is still happening too late on the "G" spectrum...

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Just flew a couple of QMB missions in my Stuka, and the blackout effects from pulling out of dive-bombing runs seemed to be working as expected (i.e., as it was before the patch that broke it a while back, as best I can recall).  I haven't flown the other types to the point of blackout before, and haven't flown any types IRL, so I can't compare them, but it seems about right in the Stuka compared to what it used to be.

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The 190 should black out later. The seat design was to allow the pilot to have higher G tolerance.

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The 190 should black out later. The seat design was to allow the pilot to have higher G tolerance.

 

This is a bit of a myth, seating position has a minimal effect on turning blackouts.

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True. IL-2:BoS typical pilot is too tough.

He can easily look around with 4-6 G, maintain high G without any problems, put negative and then positive G without any consequence...

 

 

This is a bit of a myth, seating position has a minimal effect on turning blackouts.

 

 

Ohh really ??? 
You are a doctor, a pilot or a aviation engineer ?

 

Anyway you are wrong.

 

French Rafale

rafale_cockpit-2.jpg

 

 

 

USA F-16

 

YF-16cockpitprofile_zpsf4c4566c.jpg

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I too noticed that really rarely I blacked out, even when engaged in the most aggressive G-sustained manoeuvers..

Edited by Ioshic

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I think its good the way it is. If youre too fast and pull high G for too long you definately black out. Its controllable by increasing the circle. Feels good to me. I experience beginning blackouts regularily since i am very fast when attacking most of the time.

 

Another thing i would really like to "hear" is some noise of the airframe when its overstressed. Right now the wings just ripp off and there is zero indicator soundwise that youre overstressing the wings. I think some squealing screeking noises would be awesome.

That other sim has some of the modeled.

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An untrained pilot can pull some 5 - 6G before inducing G-LOC. A trained one can propably go past 7 without a G-suit.

 

I think it's fine as it is now.

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Please do not bring in the Creaking and and Groaning like some ancient galleon in a hollywood storm...!

 

While some 'form' or indication may be desirable, please no unrealistic/unhistorical 'submarine breaking up' sounds

 

All IMHO of course :)

 

Cheers Dakpilot

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Imo I think its too extreme as well.. I have never flown that fast or turn anything more than 4g in my experience but I am sure our pilots are a bit too tough.. 

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The team consulted with aerobatic pilots and they claim it is quite easy to stave off G-Loc in piston planes. The G-forces are just not as bad in a jet and they perform without G-suits.

 

I consulted with an active U.S. Navy fighter pilot and got a similar answer. However, to get it 120% accurate we'd need to factor in all kinds of pilot fatigue etc. and that takes much more  programming work and I don't think it's on the current plan.

 

Right now we get it pretty close assuming the pilot has some awareness of what happens when you pull hard Gs.

 

I'm just happy it is working at the moment as before it was accidentally turned off.

 

Here's a snippet from my source who I trust. For me this issue is closed and we have it currently pretty accurate albeit with more work it could be even better, but that is unlikely on the current plan.
 

So, a simple scale accounting for no G-suit
 
0-4 Gs  little to no effort for an in shape, trained pilot with experience can do this all day long
5-6 Gs  Elevated breathing and some tightening of muscles to prevent tunnel vision or early stage Gray out effects
7-8 Gs  For short periods, no big deal, but sustained turn fight at that G means you are working hard.  Heavy breathing, and straining.  No one can do this forever, but is pilot dependent and could in fact mean the difference in a 1 V 1
8+ and the scale starts to go up exponentially from there. 9 Gs over 2 sec...no biggie.  9 over 10s?  Ouch.  9 over 30 seconds whoa...longer than that you better be on your A Game.
above 10 Gs and you are really reaching the limits of sustained performance.  Again dependent on the effort of the individual and probably some genetics out there that help...
 
9 Gs WITH a G-suit is generally the limit we've reached for safety reasons, even for most trained people.  The main reason we have no A/C that go above 9 Gs unless you paddle off the G-limiter to avoid that SAM at the last minute....

 

Jason

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Good enough for me Jason.

 

Thx for the detailed explanation. I am satisfied :-) :good:

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Imo I think its too extreme as well.. I have never flown that fast or turn anything more than 4g in my experience but I am sure our pilots are a bit too tough.. 

4G are really not as bad (I also though it was worse). I've expirienced it when flying aerobatics as a backseater in our ASK21. We performed loops at starting off at ~230 km/h and pulled a max of 4G for like 2-3 sec.

 

Once in the loop I preserved full vision, had no problems with breathing (I was so exited I was breathing heavily anyway) and also didn't feel the need to really strain my muscles. Lifting arms was definetly much more difficult, so I think it's very unlikely a WW2 pilot could have fully operated the aircraft under constant 4G influrence.

 

After we finished I couldn't even believe we pulled 4G.

 

Edit: The only thing I find lacking in BoS is the transition from normal to blackout. It feels like after exeeding a certain G-load full blackout gets triggered to me. Having blackouts with transition (constant 5G -> slight tunnel vision, 6G -> tunnel + grey vision, 7G -> full blackout) would probably be more realistic and make blackouts more noticeably in combat (and easier to prevent).

Edited by Stab/JG26_5tuka

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The team consulted with aerobatic pilots and they claim it is quite easy to stave off G-Loc in piston planes. The G-forces are just not as bad in a jet and they perform without G-suits.

 

I consulted with an active U.S. Navy fighter pilot and got a similar answer. However, to get it 120% accurate we'd need to factor in all kinds of pilot fatigue etc. and that takes much more  programming work and I don't think it's on the current plan.

 

Right now we get it pretty close assuming the pilot has some awareness of what happens when you pull hard Gs.

 

I'm just happy it is working at the moment as before it was accidentally turned off.

 

Here's a snippet from my source who I trust. For me this issue is closed and we have it currently pretty accurate albeit with more work it could be even better, but that is unlikely on the current plan.

 

So, a simple scale accounting for no G-suit
 
0-4 Gs  little to no effort for an in shape, trained pilot with experience can do this all day long
5-6 Gs  Elevated breathing and some tightening of muscles to prevent tunnel vision or early stage Gray out effects
7-8 Gs  For short periods, no big deal, but sustained turn fight at that G means you are working hard.  Heavy breathing, and straining.  No one can do this forever, but is pilot dependent and could in fact mean the difference in a 1 V 1
8+ and the scale starts to go up exponentially from there. 9 Gs over 2 sec...no biggie.  9 over 10s?  Ouch.  9 over 30 seconds whoa...longer than that you better be on your A Game.
above 10 Gs and you are really reaching the limits of sustained performance.  Again dependent on the effort of the individual and probably some genetics out there that help...
 
9 Gs WITH a G-suit is generally the limit we've reached for safety reasons, even for most trained people.  The main reason we have no A/C that go above 9 Gs unless you paddle off the G-limiter to avoid that SAM at the last minute....

 

Jason

Very well explained, and much respect.  

 

 

. . . I wish we could get some kind of explanation about trim on axis. . .  I flew the 109 last night for the first time in six months, and wow, it is so, so, so, nice and easy to have trim on the axis.  This game is great and getting better, but that is one thing where it is not up to par.   

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This is a bit of a myth, seating position has a minimal effect on turning blackouts.

 

No, it's not. The seat design allows blood flow to not drain directly to the legs, which is exactly what happens. There are many seat designs of modern day jets that follow that, and the difference between upright seats and slanted back seats with raised legs results in better G tolerance. Without G Suits.

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True. IL-2:BoS typical pilot is too tough.

He can easily look around with 4-6 G, maintain high G without any problems, put negative and then positive G without any consequence...

 

 

 

 

Ohh really ???

You are a doctor, a pilot or a aviation engineer ?

 

Anyway you are wrong.

 

French Rafale

rafale_cockpit-2.jpg

 

 

 

USA F-16

 

YF-16cockpitprofile_zpsf4c4566c.jpg

I pull 4-5g in my Yak-52 all the time and don't black out. If you in good shape and use proper techniques you don't need a Gsuit to stand 6 or 7 g

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The team consulted with aerobatic pilots and they claim it is quite easy to stave off G-Loc in piston planes. The G-forces are just not as bad in a jet and they perform without G-suits.

 

I consulted with an active U.S. Navy fighter pilot and got a similar answer. However, to get it 120% accurate we'd need to factor in all kinds of pilot fatigue etc. and that takes much more programming work and I don't think it's on the current plan.

 

Right now we get it pretty close assuming the pilot has some awareness of what happens when you pull hard Gs.

 

I'm just happy it is working at the moment as before it was accidentally turned off.

 

Here's a snippet from my source who I trust. For me this issue is closed and we have it currently pretty accurate albeit with more work it could be even better, but that is unlikely on the current plan.

So, a simple scale accounting for no G-suit

0-4 Gs little to no effort for an in shape, trained pilot with experience can do this all day long

5-6 Gs Elevated breathing and some tightening of muscles to prevent tunnel vision or early stage Gray out effects

7-8 Gs For short periods, no big deal, but sustained turn fight at that G means you are working hard. Heavy breathing, and straining. No one can do this forever, but is pilot dependent and could in fact mean the difference in a 1 V 1

8+ and the scale starts to go up exponentially from there. 9 Gs over 2 sec...no biggie. 9 over 10s? Ouch. 9 over 30 seconds whoa...longer than that you better be on your A Game.

above 10 Gs and you are really reaching the limits of sustained performance. Again dependent on the effort of the individual and probably some genetics out there that help...

9 Gs WITH a G-suit is generally the limit we've reached for safety reasons, even for most trained people. The main reason we have no A/C that go above 9 Gs unless you paddle off the G-limiter to avoid that SAM at the last minute....

 

Jason

Accurate.

 

Source: I pulled 9 Gs today. And the day before. And the day before that.

 

As a side note: the Viper's seat is mostly canted back so it will fit in the cockpit. It's seriously tiny. But yes, it does have a bit of an impact on G tolerance, but doesn't make a world of difference.

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