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74_jim_nihilist

Advanced Config

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Hi there! :)

 

I finally had time to try Beta 2. Since I only recently bought some palnepakcs and play ROF I don't have much experience withe ROFs PWCG. As I understand it, PWCG is a Tool where I can configure my own Campaign.

 

Here's my goal:

- I want uncertainty. If or when I meet enemy planes should be completely open. A sortie doesn't have to have enemy contact. When and where enemies fly should be random. 2 or 3 missions without contact is okay.

 

- Mission length: If I fly 15 minutes or 90 minutes should vary.

 

How can I achieve this with the given options?

 

Today I played close to 20 missions. At first I had everything too aggressive configured (MaxOpppsingFlights: 4 - I though what the hell, let's see what happens), which meant that I met every time enemy planes, roughly 5 minutes after take off. Later I had missions where there was more space between the waypoints, meaning longer flight time (which I liked). I also set MaxOpppsingFlights to 0, that gave me some breathing space until I met enemy planes.

 

What else can I do? I want to have planes in the air, but no matter what the briefing is, always getting into a dogfight shortly after take off is getting stale.

 

Questions:

- I had an escort mission. I know the Bombers where around somewhere but I could never find them. How does this work? Do I wait until they appear and then take off? The waypoints (and their descriptions) on the mission overview overlapped that much, that I couldn't figure out what was where.

 

- Formations. I don't know if this is possible (maybe the developers have to chime in?), but it would be cool when the AI Leader could circle after take off and maybe fly bigger sweeps on the waypoints. This would give AI wingmen and Humans a chance to close the distance, right now it is more like an air race. Even the AI can't get into formation. Travel speed seems to be 400 km/h, which is a bit too steep for me. 330-350 would be more managable. When I was wing leader the AI flew in formation but hung back some distance, never flying with me, only after me.

 

- Is there a tab where I can see the records of the deseased or MIA pilots?

 

- Are there actual transfer flights (I don't mean switching flight groups)? Just flying to your new air base.

 

And there is a typo: "patrol aircpace"

 

Thank you, Pat! It is the first time that I feel like flying in a place where war actually happens. This is what I was waiting for. I really like to have actual wingmates with names, too. I love it.

 

PS: What does everybody think is the best configuration to simulate indeed the Battle of Stalingrad?

Edited by 74_jim_nihilist

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Okay, now with Beta 3 and more knowledge about the various options, I have lots of testing before me, but I still can't make my mind up about:

 

Flight Generation Odds and Flight Generations Odds Modifier.

 

If I set Flight Generation Odds to 100 Squadrons will definitely generate a flight. So on the other hand there is the Modifier which is Downward Modifier...for quiet times.

 

Do I get this right?:

With 100% Odds there will be a squadron created, but the dowmard modifier prevents that for 20% of the time? Why don't I simply put the Odds at 80% and have the same result? Does anybody know more? I think these options are there for a specific purpose, I just don't know how it works.

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Well, since I am talking to myself here, I will turn this into a repository about all the options in the advanced config. Here we go:

 

If I set Flight Generation Odds to 100 Squadrons will definitely generate a flight. So on the other hand there is the Modifier which is Downward Modifier...for quiet times:

 

ANSWER:

http://riseofflight.com/forum/topic/40574-pwcg-requestsdemandsbugs/page-2?do=findComment&comment=589392

 

Pat Wilson:

Every squadron will put up a flight, but many of those flights will be eliminated if they don't come anywhere near you. In the end lots of different factors go into which flights are kept and which are tossed. The end result is a pretty wide range of possibilities.

 

By increasing the random number of planes per flight but keeping the totals at a certain point you should get a great deal of variety where sometimes there will be more smaller flights and at other times a few larger ones. With some exceptions (scramble missions, intercept missions, some others), flights are not programmed to come near you. That part is random. What is not random is that PWCG keeps (writes to the mission file) the ones that do come near you and rejects (does not write to the mission file) the ones that don't.

 

It sounds like what you are asking for is another level of randomization where PWCG may or may not generate a flight for nearby squadrons. I could probably do that with a single parameter that sets the odds of a squadron creating a flight. Default would be 100 which would result in the behavior we have now. Reduce it and squadrons will generate flights less frequently.

This is rather old and belongs to ROFs PWCG, but there's information to be found, too:

Which means not all options are there in the BOS Version.

http://oldfokkers.myfunforum.org/archive/help-with-pwcg__o_t__t_3184.html

As you can see Pat has simplified the options A LOT in this version.

 

I will now give you a point by point rundown what everything does:

 

- Always air start: basically what it says, not really applicable to us experienced flyers.

 

- Initial Squadron Search radius & Max Squadron Search Radius: These controls set the minimum and maximum radius, respectively, in kilometres which the CG will use when deciding from which squadrons on the strategic map theAI flights (both friend and foe) will be drawn. The radius begins at the your squadron's home base and extends out. So for example, if you are in No. 56 Squadron RFC, seeing as Jasta 11 is usually just across the frontline from you there is a good chance they will fall into that radius and you will be flying against Jasta 11 planes. (In fact, PWCG does this cool thing where when it draws AI planes from a squadron to form a flight, it gives all those planes the paintscheme for the unit. So if you know squadrons colours, you tell which unit you are fighting against!)

 

- Junk Flight Distance: as stated, distance at which friendly and enemy AI flight will be encountered.

 

- MG Spacing: space between MGs at the front if "Use Front MGs" = 1

 

- Max Ambient Balloons: maximum number of Observation Balloons on the map which are NOT mission objective specific. for example setting this option to 6 will result in there being 1-6 balloons on the map. You can still shoot these balloons down if you wish but as always they are surrounded by loads of flak.

 

- Max Enemy planes: as it says. This option will help solve the problem you have Duck with encountering 12 planes at once. Lowering this setting also helps people with lower spec PCs deal with the CPU and GPU load.

 

- Max Friendly planes: as it says.

 

- Max Offensive Length: PWCG there are two types of patrols: Line Patrols and Offensive Patrols. The route length of the Line Patrols is controlled by Patrol Distance Base and Patrol Distance Random options on the second page Duck put up. The Offensive Patrols (patrols behind enemy lines) the Max Offensive Length controls the patrol length in kilometres. It is a randomiser and I am not sure how the base Offensive Patrol Length is calculated. So at the default setting of 35 will give you patrol lengths of up to 35 clicks.

 

- Max Opposing Flights: Controls the maximum number of flights which will intentional have flight routes that cross the player's flight's flight route. The number of aircraft in the flight is controlled on the second page, and the chance the flights used to be Opposing Flights exist is controlled by the Flight Opposition setting (See below). Setting this to the default of '2' is a good idea to keep things manageable.

 

- Odds of Ace Flying: sets the percentage with regards to your chance an Ace will spawn, like von Richthofen or Ball. Aces are set to maximum skill level and use the paintscheme used by that Ace historically.

 

- Flight Opposition Odds: set the percentage (chance) you will encounter an enemy flight. The CG uses the settings to create a pool of enemy flights which can be 'Opposing Flights'. This number is then modified by the Max Opposing Flights setting so that, for example, if 3 flights pasted the Flight Opposition Odds check but the Max Opposing Flights setting was set 2, then only 2 flights will oppose the player's flight.

 

- Distance from enemy & Distance from Player: sets the radius in kms planes are deleted if Use Plane Deletion = 1. This is a performance setting only, and should be switched off if your PC can handle the load.

 

- Randomise Planes per side: adds a variable that increases the amount of planes on each side over the settings you put in for Max Enemy planes and Max friendly planes.

 

- Flight Generation Odds and Flight Generation Odds Modifier: Flight Generation Odds sets the chance that a Squadron which is caught in the Initial Squadron Search radius & Max Squadron Search Radius will actually spawn a flight. The Modifier is used to reduce the chance even further to simulates 'quieter times' in the fighting. This settings is mostly used by players who are doing a long haul single player campaign and want some missions where there is a chance they encounter no enemy planes at all. For mission building the Flight Generation Odds Modifier should be set to 0 and the Flight Generation Odds be set to 100 so that you will always have enemies to fight.

 

- Artillery Spotting Time: as it says. Note: Pat's missions don't have Grids for spotting.

 

- Use 10x Flak: Changes the fire rate of flak guns so they shoot 10 times as fast. This means two or more flak batteries can create walls of flak. Probably best avoid unless you enjoy getting shot down by flak.

 

- Use Airfield MGs: as it says. Especially useful in Scramble missions when enemies attack your base.

 

- Use Front MGs: dots the frontline with MGs. Note: even if this setting = 0 you still get flak batteries at the front.

 

- Use Plane Deletion: a performance setting that deletes planes if they get too far away from the player. If your PC can handle it I would suggest setting this to 0 (i.e. OFF).

 

And that's all she wrote. I hope it helps.

About the internals of PWCG:

http://www.sas1946.com/main/index.php?topic=48443.0

Edit 2: PWCG uses an internal system generated "dice roll" when setting probability percentages for any parameter. For instance, when you adjust the skill level of AI pilots to say: 25% Ace, 50% Veteran, 25% Rookie that means that overall you will face 25% Aces on the average of say 100 missions. It doesn't mean that on every mission you will face 25% Aces. You could run into a squad of rookies, but on the same mission you may run into a squad with a couple of aces and two veterans. So you can control the overall big picture, but on any given mission, or any given encounter within a mission you won't know for sure who you're up against. Of course, you can skew the percentages to 0% Aces and 0% Veterans if you only want to fly against Rookies. But any reasonable spread of percentages makes things fairly unpredictable but with a slant towards the percentages you have specified.

More from Patrick:

Question here:

http://riseofflight.com/forum/topic/35879-how-use-pwcg/page-5?do=findComment&comment=641769

His answer:

http://riseofflight.com/forum/topic/35879-how-use-pwcg/page-5?do=findComment&comment=642463

All RoF missions are preplanned, PWCG or otherwise. So the flights in the mission are set from the beginning. What I invented for PWCG are "virtual flights".. The flights are a series of moving check zones that emulate a real flight going about its business. They spawn into a real flight when you or any enemy flight gets close.

 

Virtual flights allow me to put many more flights in the air than I would be able to otherwise. Real flights take up a lot of CPU for the AI. Virtual flights are just a series of moving check zones. They only become real planes when you get close.

 

So ... to answer your question - maybe. I do not spawn virtual flights across the front. They are more or less within your mission radius. However, by no means are they all on your flight path, so straying might lead to an encounter.. Straying way out probably will not result in anything.

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More Tidbits how PWCG works:

http://riseofflight.com/forum/topic/40574-pwcg-requestsdemandsbugs/page-7?do=findComment&comment=611900

 

They need to add up to 100? Did not know this. The default settings don't, so I assumed they didn't need to. Good to know.

 

Do the Weather chance settings need to add up to 100 as well?

Yes. The way that it works is that the values are stacked and then a number is generated from 1-100. From that a selection is made.

Example:

Clear 30

Cloudy 40

Very Cloudy 20

Thunderstorm 10

 

Between 0-30 it is clear, 31-70 cloudy, 71-90 very cloudy, 91-100 thunderstorm.

 

Example 2 not adding up to 100:

Clear 50

Cloudy 40

Very Cloudy 20

Thunderstorm 10

 

Between 0-50 it is clear, 51-90 cloudy, 91-110 very cloudy, 110-120 thunderstorm.

 

Thunderstorm would never be selected because the dice only goes to 100.

 

Pat, that's interesting. Do settings for AI Skill Levels and Mission Type work the same way?

...

All of my "odds" adjustments work this way. So yes, mission types, etc.

...

Understood. So what happens when the "odds" add up to less than 100?

...

Beyond 100 gets ignored

...

Yes, got that part. Any effects for the numbers adding up to less than 100%?

...

The last in the stack gets whatever is left over

 

Pat, could it be possible to increase towns/villages placement/spawning around our mission area?

 

Advanced Config -> Mission Ground Objects -> Keep Group Spread

 

PWCG calculates a box around a mission. "Keep Group Spread" defines the distance in meters beyond that box that PWCG includes ground objects. Increase the value and PWCG will keep more stuff. Pat, could it be possible to increase towns/villages placement/spawning around our mission area?

 

I don't know if the BOS PWCG has this, but found this rather interesting:

http://riseofflight.com/forum/topic/40574-pwcg-requestsdemandsbugs/page-4?do=findComment&comment=594054

PWCG has airfield relocation missions. I think I call them transfer or ferry flights. Things can happen too as other flights are generated.

 

The thing about PWCG transfer missions is that they must be accepted as soon as they are generated. Unlike other PWCG missions,transfer missions are event driven and not a random selection. The idea is that if you don't want to fly it you can scrub it and move on to the next mission. Also, if the range is excessive I do not generate a transfer mission.

Aaand to make it complete:

(Afaik your wingmen get better the more kills the rack up - so your wingmen better survive!)

http://riseofflight.com/forum/topic/40574-pwcg-requestsdemandsbugs/page-7?do=findComment&comment=611340

About kill confirmation: no way to please everybody. As Dude points out, you can decide for yourself how many to claim and then claim only those that you feel would be confirmed. Any change that I make will probably piss off a half dozen people.

 

If you give up a claim PWCG will usually assign it to a wing man. Good way to boost your squad mates. It does matter since your squad mates quality improves with missions flown and victories.

 

Mission odds: they should add up to 100. If they do not then PWCG stops counting and some mission types will not be generated.

Edited by 74_jim_nihilist
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Wow, I can't believe someone dug that old post of mine up...

 

For record the Flight Generation and Flight Opposition options do work. In RoF (and now BoS) I done many uneventful patrols where the enemy hasn't graced my flights presence (just like it was in real life). It makes it quite a suprise when you do encounter an enemy flight. In fact on one occassion in RoF, I had gone three patrols without a contact and was getting a bit complacent. Half an hour into the fourth patrol an enemy flight snuck up behind us and shot up me and my wingmen! I managed to escape and limp home, but my flight had several KIA and I was wounded and out of the fight for a few weeks.

 

My settings for these options are:

Flight Opposition Odds - 25

Flight Generation Odds - 50

Flight Generation Odds Modifier - 20

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Hey Andrei!

 

Nice that you chime in. :) It was the most comprehensive Information about the options I could find. I am experimenting with the settings, I've yet to have a mission that takes that long, haha.

 

Just for clarification: With what level of air density do you fly?

Edited by 74_jim_nihilist

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I have air density on 'high' but then increase the aircraft numbers further to put more planes in.IIRC I have 18 German aircraft to 24 Soviet ones.

 

That said, your air density setting should be determined with regards to your PC's performance. I have a gaming desktop which is barely a year old, so I can afford to have large numbers of aircraft in my missions.

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Sorry to double post. It won't let me edit my previous post.

 

Higher air density should not effect the chance of encounter too adversely. The other day I did a patrol, and though I heard from a flight of LaGGs on the radio saying they were engaging some fighters and bombers, my flight of two Yaks did not encounter a single aircraft. Hence,higher air densities coupled with lower flight opposition and generation settings means you get realistic low chances of encountering the enemy whilst having 'ambient' engagements going on. This makes you feel like you are a small part of a much bigger war effort.

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Thank you, Andrei. This is basically what I'm striving for, intermingled with the intention to recreate the (Air-)Battle of Stalingrad. It gives me a good starting point to find the balance I like best.

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Sorry to re-open this thread but I've got a question that fits in here; in Mission Ground objects, which parameter directly controls the effective placement of town buildings? E.g., I've set Keep Ground Spread to 150000 but Staligrad still has no buildings; is the distance still related to the airfield selected as mission starting point?

I'm conducting further tests, but every help is appreciated.

To extremize: what settings should I use if I wanted every airfield, town and village to be generated?

 

Edit: I'm not sure I understand Keep Group Spread right. I'll make more tests and report back. Meanwhile, any suggestions?

Edited by Picchio

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They should be there.  If they are not there then there is a bug.  In a previous version a bug existed where only groups were loaded and standalone blocks were not.  That was fixed.  Maybe something else is keeping the buildings from appearing - i.e. a new type of ground placement that PWCG is not coded to recognize.  Worse would be if the files that I have do not contain the necessary buildings, although I believe that is not the case.

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Thanks for the reply. I generated abnormous mission filesizes but I couldn't identify the issue. I'm going to try with version 1.0.1.

Any specific test I should conduct, in order to provide data useful to you?

Edited by Picchio

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Thanks for the reply. I generated abnormous mission filesizes but I couldn't identify the issue. I'm going to try with version 1.0.1.

Any specific test I should conduct, in order to provide data useful to you?

 

Tested in 1.0.1, Stalingrad map, summer, with these settings:

 

AirfieldInclusionRadius = 150000;

KeepAAASpread = 50000;

KeepAirfieldSpread = 50000;

KeepGroupSpread = 125000;

 

Everything else as default, Ground Unit Density set to High, Air Density set to Low. Still no buildings in Staligrad or other (kind of) distant towns. Staligrad is certainly not on the other side of the map, so something's wrong. Mission starting point is near Golubinsky.

 

It's strange because with those distance/radius values, they should be there, assuming I understand what I'm doing. AAA batteries are successfully placed as far away as expected, though.

Definitely something's up with structures placement.

 

Waiting for your input, Pat. Thanks in advance.

Edited by Picchio

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PWCG has to correctly consume the information.  Once it does things will be there.  Biggest help would be to have an example of something that should be there from another mission.  if I could identify the missing objects I could pinpoint the problem very quickly.

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I don't know if it's a valid example, but I'm looking at a mission generated with the QMB around the same area, just so it's easy to compare the structure placement; e.g. in QMB Stalingrad is there, while PWCG just doesn't place it. Same goes for many other structures (towns, bridges)... PWCG places them near waypoints, but not at all at the radius indicated in the advanced settings. As I stated above, AAA emplacements do work, and that's a bit curious. Towns are just not there.

Any specific file you need, please do ask.

 

I've saved separated group files containing Blocks, Ground, Groups, Fixed Groups, and Bridges generated by the QMB, covering approximately the entire map. Could they be of any use?

Edited by Picchio

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For my install, Stalingrad is visible. All buildings are there (well, they're shot to pieces, but they are there).

All villages have the houses there, airfields have buildings and so on. 

Edited by Bando

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For my install, Stalingrad is visible. All buildings are there (well, they're shot to pieces, but they are there).

All villages have the houses there, airfields have buildings and so on. 

 

What version of PWCG are you using and with which settings? Is it (Stalingrad, for example) visible in every mission? Even your flight path/waypoints are far from it?

Edited by Picchio

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1.1

In simple setup I use med-med

I don't know if the city is rendered in all missions, but the missions where I flew over the city I could clearly see the buildings.

I did not fly to the city when I was not supposed to be there, but I will try tomorrow and report.

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1.1

In simple setup I use med-med

I don't know if the city is rendered in all missions, but the missions where I flew over the city I could clearly see the buildings.

I did not fly to the city when I was not supposed to be there, but I will try tomorrow and report.

 

Well, I get lost quite often... :happy:

What I am trying to understand is if and how structures placement distance/radius can be forced through advanced settings, which at the moment don't seem to work properly...

Edited by Picchio

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