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So... what can a poor pilot really do with the P-40E...

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Something is wrong, not sure what. But the new tactics from Bf-109 pilots to use his own aircraft propeller to cut through P-40 parts without damage on his own aircraft propeller is just :o:! With this new tactics it is really hard to say what helps to be a better P-40 pilot?

 

Propeller made by Krupp.

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Something is wrong, not sure what. But the new tactics from Bf-109 pilots to use his own aircraft propeller to cut through P-40 parts without damage on his own aircraft propeller is just  :o:! With this new tactics it is really hard to say what helps to be a better P-40 pilot?

 

 

Can also be the other way around - collided unintentional a few times with russian planes while flying the F-4 (most of the collisions took place in a heads on) - only to find out that they took no damage and my plane was literally a piece of scrap metal.

Not sure what causes this - maybe a latency problem so that collisions aren´t calculated correctly.

Edited by 9./JG27golani79

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C'mon... The 202 was much superior to the P40 in every aspect but firepower.  

 

As one RAF pilot remembered:

 

"Sleek, supremely fast - the sight of their high, white-crossed fin would have struck fear into our hearts had the Italians pressed home their attacks. The odd pilot proved that the 202 was capable of mixing it in a dogfight - out-turning our P-40s with ease; but the majority would pull away effortlessly into a climbing roll or a roll off the top when things became at all hectic. There is nothing more exasperating, when you are caning fifty-four inches of boost out of an engine, than to see your enemy indulge in carefree aerobatics; but although we did our damnedest to get near enough to shoot at them,we seldom succeeded. Their aircraft was superior to ours on all counts. No wonder we wanted to fly one." (Squadron Leader D.H. Clarke, D.F.C, A.F.C  book "What were they like to fly")

 

Even the Macchi 200 was considered an almost equal opponent, bar speed and firepower, go figure.

Against G.50 and CR42 it was of course better. 

 

I love the P40E for its uniqueness and sturdy construction. It may not be the best of fighters, but it's a joy to pilot and to look at.

 

 C'mon,dont take everything so seriously :biggrin: My bad,I was not very precise in my wording.What I ment was that I can do better in P-40 against Folgore than any other axis aircraft in BoS.We still speak about the game here,right? When I am able to bring it down low,its speed is not so much greater then my kitty and I have a chance for good firing solution.Even better when folgore tries to turn and I can cut inside of it. ;)

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 C'mon,dont take everything so seriously :biggrin: My bad,I was not very precise in my wording.What I ment was that I can do better in P-40 against Folgore than any other axis aircraft in BoS.We still speak about the game here,right? When I am able to bring it down low,its speed is not so much greater then my kitty and I have a chance for good firing solution.Even better when folgore tries to turn and I can cut inside of it. ;)

 

lol, so P40 must have a broken FM then  :lol:

 

The 202 is indeed slower than the 109 and 190. 

I tried some fights against ai 202 and I was almost always in trouble, same with the 109 or 190. 

I can't even seem to turn better than any axis fighters in the p40. After a few turns, the weight pops in and it doesn't follow the enemy.

 

I still just can't see the real advantage it may have...especially in turn radius... but to each his own  :ph34r:

Edited by Ioshic

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Sustained turning is more about power to weight ratio (and wing design.)

 

The P40 has a good wing design for turning (see P36 hawk) but poor power to weight compared to 109F and Yak. This make instant turning good but sustained bad. If you are trying to sustain turning fights against lighter, more powerful opponents, unless they have a high wing loading (like fw190) you are in real trouble.

 

Granted, you should be able to "high power" and eventually kaboom your engine using 65" boost at very low altitude in the P40... since single stage supercharger with moderately high critical altitude for that single stage (think about it).

 

Not all tactics work with all a/c - and this is realistic and the way it should be. It would have been very boring to fight correctly as a P38 pilot against a 109g6 in real life. But in real life, you are happy to zoom away and not have to worry about getting a hole in your spleen, who cares if you have to wait a little longer to win. ;)

 

 

lol, so P40 must have a broken FM then  :lol:
 

The 202 is indeed slower than the 109 and 190. 

I tried some fights against ai 202 and I was almost always in trouble, same with the 109 or 190. 
I can't even seem to turn better than any axis fighters in the p40. After a few turns, the weight pops in and it doesn't follow the enemy.
 

I still just can't see the real advantage it may have...especially in turn radius... but to each his own  :ph34r:

Edited by Venturi

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The P-40 was a good looking useless plane. Iconic (mostly for the shark mouth painting) but it failed everywhere except maybe in china (maybe) flown by pretty good pilots and young poorly trained japenese pilots. She was a joke for the zero and any other fighter. Much beloved still no use. A modern looking Gloster Gladiatior or I-16 Monowing looking like a modern fighter - still anthother generation (30's) plane. 

 

post-23845-0-68656600-1445475539_thumb.jpg

Edited by indiaciki

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Sustained turning is more about power to weight ratio (and wing design.)

 

The P40 has a good wing design for turning (see P36 hawk) but poor power to weight compared to 109F and Yak. This make instant turning good but sustained bad. If you are trying to sustain turning fights against lighter, more powerful opponents, unless they have a high wing loading (like fw190) you are in real trouble.

 

Granted, you should be able to "high power" and eventually kaboom your engine using 65" boost at very low altitude in the P40... since single stage supercharger with moderately high critical altitude for that single stage (think about it).

 

Not all tactics work with all a/c - and this is realistic and the way it should be. It would have been very boring to fight correctly as a P38 pilot against a 109g6 in real life. But in real life, you are happy to zoom away and not have to worry about getting a hole in your spleen, who cares if you have to wait a little longer to win. ;)

 

Yes Venturi, indeed it seems istant turning is very good on the Kitty.

All in all, I really like the P40, such a beautiful plane: and, together with the C.202 and I-16, it is among my favourite birds in the game right now, just for that immensely un-measurable feeling one has when flying all of them.

I just love the underdogs and the slow(er) fighters planes of WW2.

Edited by Ioshic

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Flew I whole mission with 30% flaps down but didn't notice as the plane is so god darn slow anyway lol

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Against MC202 it is succesfull to some degree.When I fire up quick mission,one on one or better 4 on 4 to have more fun and variables in combat,even my AI wingmen can succesfully bring macchi down.It is about geting it low and then turnfight.Cut inside their turn followed by one good short salvo and macchi is burning.AI does not seem to push it too much into vertical.Kitty and machi have comparable top speeds down low, 490 vs 500+,just dont be affraid to boost your allison over limits for a while,it can sustain such settings for a time needed to get a firing solution.

Messers and fokkers just fly-by leaving me in smoking piece of duraluminium :biggrin:

PS: I use flaps only for landing

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The P40 is not a maneuverable fighter, it's also facing aircraft far better than it. Against the Macchi, 109E7, and 110, it'll have better successes. Not significantly, but better.

 

As it stands, it's great for intercepting bombers - the few that are ever up there. 50% fuel in it is still longer flight duration than 100% fuel for any other fighter. It climbs decently well up to 16/17,000ft, and can dive fast without losing anything. The best thing to do is get high altitude, look for lower targets and dive on them. Especially 190s, since some are still quite insistent on turning with everything out there.

 

All you need is one good hit with the 6 .50s and most planes will be heavily damaged. The P40 can also take significant damage itself. Stay high, dive down, stay fast and hope to find a huge cloud bank to hide in to escape. It's not going to win any energy bleeding stick stirring dogfights against many fighters.

 

http://lend-lease.airforce.ru/english/articles/romanenko/p-40/

  • Upvote 1

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Ok guys,

 

this weekend I'll try to invest on the P-40E only.

 

I'm the typical stuborn guy... so, although I know I'll get smashed like a blind pigeon, my sorties will ALL be on the P-40E, starting with 60% fuel and a minimum of 40%...

 

I'll try to first climb to at least 10,000', and from there use b&z techniques...

 

Will report back :)

 

Thx for that doc Furious!

Edited by jcomm

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From my experience it turns quite well with macchi,even messer for a short time if he accepts horizontal turning game.Just take care that you dont push it too much over critical low speed and AoA in turns.It has nasty habit to enter violent spin.When you are only few hundred meters above ground,there is not much to do,you better jump out  :biggrin:

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Basically the P-40 is best as a bomber in this game. It can carry one 500kg bomb( I think it's in kilos at least, being used in Russia)

 

You can actually do a little bit of fighting with this plane, if you are extremely careful. Do not enter a turn fight.

 

Go into the AOE at high altitude (not too high, seeing you have no adjustable supercharger) stay the heck away from any contrails, or higher contacts.

If they do engage from a higher altitude, you are better off diving and extending out eastwards.

 

Go for lower targets, preferably with a moderate amount of energy. Go after them in a dive. The P-40 is a heavy plane, and a strong one. Your strength is in the weight, dive capabilities and firepower

After the pass, try keeping the energy. If target is neutralized or weakened, you climb back up. If not, extend away, using the energy you have.

 

And last but not least, as with all the Russians; don't go alone. You are better off in a group!

  • Upvote 1

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Superghostboy, on 21 Oct 2015 - 11:53, said:

snapback.png

Something is wrong, not sure what. But the new tactics from Bf-109 pilots to use his own aircraft propeller to cut through P-40 parts without damage on his own aircraft propeller is just   :o:! With this new tactics it is really hard to say what helps to be a better P-40 pilot?

Can also be the other way around - collided unintentional a few times with russian planes while flying the F-4 (most of the collisions took place in a heads on) - only to find out that they took no damage and my plane was literally a piece of scrap metal.

Not sure what causes this - maybe a latency problem so that collisions aren´t calculated correctly.

 

 

:)

 

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Again, the fact that the engine could be, and was, pushed to high manifold pressures (over 55" boost) during a sortie should play a role here, considering the USSRs really mediocre consideration of the performance of the plane - guaranteed that her pilots certainly pushed those Allisons hard (and reportedly, they could take it much better than other engines).

The fact of the matter to me seems that the western allies were overly cautious when it comes to safety margins on their engines.

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/150grade/44-1_Fuel-16March44.pdf

Admittedly this is from later in the war, but the V-1710, Merlin, and R-2800 all ran for 7.5 hours on WEP. (Technically 5 hours alternating power settings, and 2.5 hours straight WEP.)

This about the R-2800 puts the icing on the cake.

http://www.enginehistory.org/Frank%20WalkerWeb1.pdf

...Pratt & Whitney routinely ran its engines for 100 hours straight at War Emergency Power. The seven and one-half hours required by the Government was no problem whatsoever.

 

...Frank was regularly running his R-2800 at 2800 HP for 100 hours at the time.

It seems that with settings like these, the engine will outlive the plane it's flying in!

Edited by Silavite

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If we start delving into what the engines can do... as in, they were rated for this performance but they can do this performance and then they need a total overhaul. Then there's a few options:

 

There is no point to have limits in all aspects if the engines get a white wash just because some think they should be able to run it until it may blow. It may, it may not.

But if that player wants to delve into that territory, then there are four alternatives. 

1) The engine just randomly blows. I can see that one being a no go. I can hear the whining already.

2) The person who exceeded their aircraft's engine's set limits get to enjoy a nice break from play for a while. Built in default 35 minutes. Server adjustable to make it longer. Keep your engine within it's limits. No one will like that, but that's what would happen.

3) Every single time someone exceeds the engine's limits, that aircraft is written off from the flyable list for the duration of the scenario. Servers that keep track of aircraft, hopefully most, keeps removing over run aircraft from the list. Can't see that one going very well.

4) Or the current compromise - which other massively multi-player sims do as well.

 

The only reason to exceed the engine's limit is in case of emergency. If someone is in an emergency for 10+ minutes, that wasn't an emergency - that was intentional.

 

Other massively multi player air combat sims do it the way it's done here. The above limits are boost. They are limited. As it should be. If there's zero recourse for burning the engine out because its running above its capable limits, then what the hell is the point of simulating anything else?

Edited by FuriousMeow
  • Upvote 1

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Against MC202 it is succesfull to some degree.When I fire up quick mission,one on one or better 4 on 4 to have more fun and variables in combat,even my AI wingmen can succesfully bring macchi down.It is about geting it low and then turnfight.Cut inside their turn followed by one good short salvo and macchi is burning.AI does not seem to push it too much into vertical.Kitty and machi have comparable top speeds down low, 490 vs 500+,just dont be affraid to boost your allison over limits for a while,it can sustain such settings for a time needed to get a firing solution.

Messers and fokkers just fly-by leaving me in smoking piece of duraluminium :biggrin:

PS: I use flaps only for landing

 

 

I find the C.202 turns better than the P40, even better than the 109s IMO.

I think actually that it's the best turner in the Axis' stable right now.

 

Speed of Macchi is on the range of 530-545 km/h (with wep and at 2400 rpm) on the deck, which is fast, and which is about 30-40 km/h faster than P40, and at the same time 20km/h slower than 109 G2.

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/17614-570-kph-yak-1-sea-level/?p=285295 )

 

Apart from this, I found out the P40 can take tremendously amount of damage and still keep its pilot safe and warm  :)

 

Best tactics I find with the Kitty are to:

1.) Open the canopy for better view, who cares about the speed loss, you'll be slower than anyone else anyway

2.) Use scissors maneuv. at your advantage when flying against a close enemy a lot, it rolls not too bad 

3.) Don't turn too much. Or actually, turn fast for a few seconds and then change tactic if you can't get a firing solution

4.) Pay attention to dangerous spin characteristics, but at the same time use this to your advantage as you can physically "stop in mid-air". Recovering from a spin is not too hard should you have a decent alt under your butt.

5.) Select 4 x 12,7 Brownings with additional ammo on, and fire A LOT whenever you seem to have a chance, as the ammo supply is great, as much so as your firepower. Fire also at a distance as the ballistics are very good and you will still ahve lots of ammo to "launch" at your enemy.

6.) If the enemy decide to climb, as he should do, try to mimetize with the ground and turn the opposite direction gently without sacrifying your E and try to get as much distance as possible. When he decides to get back to you, turn violently and opt for a head-on firing solution with your good Brownings and fire A LOT. You will be climbing and he will be descending, but for a few seconds you can sustain that and destroy the enemy with your 50 cals.

7.) If you're caught at higher alt by an enemy in a better position, you can dive very fast if you see that you're not able to enter a firing solution on him

 

And of course, wingmen and teamspeak can do wonders, but this is true for all planes regardless.  :salute:

Edited by Ioshic
  • Upvote 3

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My posts were about fighting the AI offline.And I do it as I wrote it,With success.Fighting MP is something completly different.Over there,vast majority of pilots are veteran/aces using lots of vertical maneuvers and other tricks.In MP,without teamwork,you are sitting duck in P-40.

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Pretty cool video. Who will take the challenge to do a bos version with some nice MP kills?

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P-40 in old Il2 could be different bird then these one from BOS:P

Indeed.It is field mod with klimov engine.The one in that old sturm video.

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I thought so too but at a second look some parts were filmed with the regular P-40E. Is it me or nobody was particularly happy with that Klimov mod?

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I guess you can't do anything in a P-40. I was flying her yesterday. Some simple aerobatics above the airfield. She's less fun than a JU-87

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You guys got all spoiled by the Yak  :lol:  :P

 

You might be right

:)

Edited by indiaciki

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Has anyone put up video tutorials yet for the P-40 or any of the new BoM aircraft yet? I know startups, etc aren't rocket science but I always like to check out a few tutorial vids on new birds to get a better grasp of limits and do's/dont's.

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I have a lot of P-40 crashes in my flight records directory :D Just think about anything you can do flying a Bf 109 or Yak 1 - you can't. The I-16 on the other hand is perfect for aerobatics. The mc.202 is a pleasure.

Edited by indiaciki

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I still find weird at least two things ...

 

- that huge tendency to nose down during the takeoff run...

- the poor acceleration under any circumstances other than dives...

 

Somehow, from what I read allovber the place, it should feel like a much more solid and harmonious aircraft ? Almost tempted to buy the A2A FSX version - those guys pay attention to a LOT of details, and can really recreate the maincharacteristics of a powerful ww2 aircraft, like they did with the p51d...

 

~I tend to refuse to believe it was so inferior to their present opponents, the I16 - EVEN the Rata ???? - included ?....

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Yesterday on WoL I jumped in to "Carolina Moon", my personal P-40. I armed her with a 500kg bomb and some extra ammo, because the target was the artillery batteries near a forest by the Volga.

 

I used the clouds to approach the target unnoticed. I dived on the batteries, took out one with the bomb and 2 more n the additional passes I made. Then I climbed away and visited a friendly city that had our tanks and vehicles. I bounced a 109 and shot it down. I was then attacked by another, but I managed to do a quick split-S and dive away. he lost me because there were other planes around. I actually got behind him, but I ran out of ammo. I flew home and landed.

 

 

The P-40 is a capable plane, if you set realistic expectations and mission goals. It's certainly not for those "blonde knights".

Edited by Reflected
  • Upvote 3

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Thx Reflected, it really payed to read your description - practice makes the difefrence and that's probably my main handycap...

 

Will keep trying :-)

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that huge tendency to nose down during the takeoff run...

 

Set the pitch trim to the "T.O." setting before takeoff. It'll help a lot. 

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That's pretty much what we have in BoS/BoM.Nice reading ;)

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The P-40 is an energy fighter,read how the flying tigers flew them. Basicly hit and run. I managed to knock down 2 109s in it this afternoon before biting the dust(the pilot always seems to get hit) I dove in hit climbed and repeated.

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The P-40 is an energy fighter,read how the flying tigers flew them. Basicly hit and run. I managed to knock down 2 109s in it this afternoon before biting the dust(the pilot always seems to get hit) I dove in hit climbed and repeated.

Problem is the P-40s climb rate, which is much too poor to hold on to an advantage against a well climbing opponent such as a 109.

 

Any fighter can win against any other, if it starts out with a significant energy advantage.

 

The P-40 is fine for diving at an enemy, but it can't fight on even terms or turn around the fight on a regular basis, and hence is inferior.

 

Btw: If your only tactic is "hit and run", it's a pretty good indication, that you're not flying the superior fighter.

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Depends on how hard you're hitting and how fast you're running, see Me262. ;)

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Depends on how hard you're hitting and how fast you're running, see Me262. ;)

All right, that might be the exception to the rule :)

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