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10km aircraft render range and why it is unacceptable.


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#41 Y-29.Silky

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 17:15

I have no clue if this is just me, have no clue if rendering has changed or not, but I remember it being vastly easier to spot distant aircraft in the beta than it is now.

In WoL, a message will say "Target under attack!", and I'll see the target from a distance and scan the area religiously and not see anything.

Other times, there's moments when I'm flying with very few clouds and think to myself, "Damn I should be seeing everything!", yet feels like I'm the only one in the sky.
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#42 Finkeren

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 17:36

I have no clue if this is just me, have no clue if rendering has changed or not, but I remember it being vastly easier to spot distant aircraft in the beta than it is now.


I think this has to do with the fact that back then we were all flying on the tiny Lapino map, which means that not only were distances shorter, but there was a higher 'concentration' of aircraft in a smaller airspace.
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#43 4./JG52_Manu653

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 20:10

By experience, I'm still 20/20, when I'm in flight even if the ATC give me the direction of an another airplane, I still struggle to saw it... In reality even a DASH-8 in white a 7 km of you is very hard to see. Much more easy to spot an airplane when you are on the ground then in the sky... It's much harder to spot in reality then in BOS !


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#44 Alkyan

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 20:18

Winter makes it very easy to spot planes and keep trap of them.

The only time I'm annoyed by dot disappearing it's during high altitude fights when the plane and its contrail suddenly disappear
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#45 Y-29.Silky

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 21:41

Winter makes it very easy to spot planes and keep trap of them.

The only time I'm annoyed by dot disappearing it's during high altitude fights when the plane and its contrail suddenly disappear


That's another thing I wonder about, contrails. You can see contrails from 100 miles away in real life. In this game they don't really render until they're practically on top of you. From say Karpovka, shouldn't you be able to see contrails over Stalingrad?
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#46 [TWB]Hooves

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 21:54

That's another thing I wonder about, contrails. You can see contrails from 100 miles away in real life. In this game they don't really render until they're practically on top of you. From say Karpovka, shouldn't you be able to see contrails over Stalingrad?

Its all about performance, sure they could be rendered, but give something else up in return.


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#47 II/JG17_HerrMurf

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Posted 08 October 2015 - 23:04

My experience flying the big commercial jets equipped with TCAS system is that you can spot a B737 or A320 around 12.5 nautical miles flying in the same airway.

So we are talking about spotting a 34m wingspan plane usually painted white, coming in our out in the same route what gives you the lowest visible cross section possible around 24 km in blue sky day light.

WW2 fighters wingspan is around 10-12m. Does anyone have ww2 pilots books saying how far they usually spotted enemies with no contrails??

Absolutely agree, spotting airliners at greater than 12-15 miles is tough even with tower traffic and TCAS giving you info. Spotting a white Cessna at five miles, co-alt, with the same tower and TCAS info can be a real challenge. The game does a decent job in the spotting department. Spotting a fighter at 40 km is pretty unlikely with the naked eye even with a bit of luck and some means of preliminary guidance. I know Yeager was pretty accomplished at scanning/spotting but he said most guys couldn't spot individual targets out to great distances. As Manu said as well, spotting in real life is much harder than in the game, plus add in defensive 3D scanning to find the target in the first place. It's no wonder so many pilots lost their lives from an unseen bounce IRL.


Edited by [LBS]HerrMurf, 08 October 2015 - 23:08.

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If the argument against expanding to the Western Front is simply the Luftwaffe was overwhelmed and defeated then there is absolutely no reason to ever go back to the late war Eastern Front either. 

 

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#48 Ace_Pilto

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 09:57

They also said that spotting targets was a skill that needed to be cultivated. I've already mentioned this and the entirely different paradigm that exists between spotting aircraft in civil aviation and within the context of the game.

 

24 km is a reasonable maximum distance. (Given that the contact is not coming directly towards/away from you.)


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#49 FlatSpinMan

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 10:21

Dots à la unreasonable sound good to me.

Still no good without a computer that'll run the game properly. :-(
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#50 ZachariasX

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 14:12

I'd love to be able to spot at greater distances, but how exactly is that gonna be achieved with current limitations in screen resolution?

 

At 40 km distance the wingspan of a fighter sized aircraft (10m) spans less than 0.015o (around 50 arcseconds) of your view. In the most zoomed-in view we have in BoS I think we have around 40o FoV. This means that even in fully zoomed-in view you'd need a screen 3000 pixels wide for the plane to even appear as one single pixel - and even that is a huge stretch since we're only looking at the broadest part of the aircraft. In reality you'd propably need twice the resolution to realistically spot a fighter 40km away as 1 or 2 pixels on your screen. So even in the best scenario, you would absolutely need a screen and PC capable of rendering 4K graphics to be able to spot anything at 40km distance, and even then you'd have the problem of the plane 'popping' in and out of view as you zoom in/out. 

 

A 20 km spotting distance might be achievable, but it would create loads of balance problems, because people with systems and screens capable of running 4K resolutions would have tremendous advantage over people playing at lower resolutions, because they'd be able to spot planes at much greater distances, than people playing at lower resolutions. The 10km spotting distance means, that even on fairly low resolution, you can spot an aircraft without using zoomed-in view at about the same time as someone using 4K resolution.

 

Honestly, I'm not ready to make the sim so grossly unbalanced in favor of people with better screens and systems. So how do you propose we achieve the goal of greater rendering distances? The only other methods I can think of involve either differential scaling, so that planes are rendered bigger at longer distances (which will make it next to imposible to accurately estimate distances) or use some kind of 'black dot' or marker at longer distances (which has looked really ugly in all sims that have used it)

 

I understand why you'd want spotting at greater distances to be posible, I would too. But I just don't see how it's posible without making the sim hugely unbalanced or really ugly.

 

Good point, but reality is "ugly". Things are not seen in direct proportion. If you look for instance at the moon, you will see/perceive that one to be much larger that it would appear on a photo. Now If you take a foto taken from the moon with a standard lens, it will remain the tiny speck it actually is. To make it look correct on a photo, you must enlarge it several times.

 

Vision is a rather distorted thing from "absolute reality". Contrast is increased between objects with different luminosity, soemthing that doesn't go well with very small images. Or if it is done on a painting then those Mach bands around an item are a clear departure from the "real" shading of that object.You will however learn to spot a moving dot very easily. But if it is a moving dot on a moving image, you have a much harder time to do so.

 

A trained vision can spot very distant objects IRL. This kind of image processing is not really applicable to looking at images. This is why you actually can "distort" an image slightly (or you even have to do it) to show "what you are actually seeing".

 

In short, a correct photo/render of a scenery is NOT how you actually see it. You are made to see relevant things faster IRL, but much less so on pictures. This is why you have to show things a bit differently in a sim, than a totally realistc render. You should also create a level playing field for monitors. Once an object enters the playerbubble, it should be drawn on all monitors.


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#51 ZachariasX

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 14:22

By experience, I'm still 20/20, when I'm in flight even if the ATC give me the direction of an another airplane, I still struggle to saw it... In reality even a DASH-8 in white a 7 km of you is very hard to see. Much more easy to spot an airplane when you are on the ground then in the sky... It's much harder to spot in reality then in BOS !

 

Spoting aircraft is an aquired skill, even with 20/20 eyesight. Having the eye focus set to infinite in rest is something you have to train for. And you can't focus at the blue sky. Looking at many fancy gauges in the cockpit is actually contraproductive, as it is keeping your resting eyefocus close. Some get very god at it very fast, others struggle with it forever. Spoting distance of 7 km I find not that bad, given that you are loaded with other tasks in the cockpit as well.


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#52 Ala13_Lothar29

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 14:48

I absolutely agree with you and your opinion, when online flight limit myself to climb very high, because otherwise I hit where they want.

 

and I have never considered bad fighter pilot simulator, on the contrary, always used to combat online dating a couple or three planes shot down.

here in IL-2 BoS, I have good online experience percisamente to detect the latest contacts

 

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#53 II/JG17_HerrMurf

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 14:55

There is also, however, a vast difference between seven and forty kilometers. If the poster was suggesting we bump spotting out to fifteen I'd say it's a reasonable but unlikely to be implemented request. Suggesting 40k is realistic is almost laughable for anyone who flies in real life. Spotting a the equivalent of a minivan at 24 miles (for us Yanks) in even a slightly occluded sky is nearly impossible and in a clear crisp winters sky is unlikely for anyone other than the most gifted. The game handles spotting, with technical considerations, within reason and simulates the average pilot's abilities within those parameters.

FTR, I've suggested on several occasions that icons fade out on the normal servers at 3-5 km to force better spotting. I'd be fine with a single pixel out to fifteen k on both types of servers.

Edited by [LBS]HerrMurf, 09 October 2015 - 14:58.

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If the argument against expanding to the Western Front is simply the Luftwaffe was overwhelmed and defeated then there is absolutely no reason to ever go back to the late war Eastern Front either. 

 

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#54 ZachariasX

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 15:33

There is also, however, a vast difference between seven and forty kilometers. If the poster was suggesting we bump spotting out to fifteen I'd say it's a reasonable but unlikely to be implemented request. Suggesting 40k is realistic is almost laughable for anyone who flies in real life. Spotting a the equivalent of a minivan at 24 miles (for us Yanks) in even a slightly occluded sky is nearly impossible and in a clear crisp winters sky is unlikely for anyone other than the most gifted. The game handles spotting, with technical considerations, within reason and simulates the average pilot's abilities within those parameters.

 

I believe the guy that he can see a big balloon in an Arizona Sky at about 40 km distance. I on purpose didn't suggest a "suitable" detection range myself, as IMHO those detection ranges vary tremendously betwen equally eyesighted people. Having a good eyesight, I consider 20 km are a *very* good range to spot planes of the size of a Spitfire. The casual eye (light GA plane passengers) won't see planes farther than 1 km and usually only see them shoudl you have to make an evasive maneuver. I don't really think that the given 10 km is an unreasonable range. Look up at an airliner at cruising altitude. With good vision, you can see the plane very well ahead of the contrails. Imagine the plane being 1/4 of the size. I'm certain that poor window/canopy quality will not let you see the aircraft. Any sort of weather will do so too (unless, as said you are in a climate like Arizona etc.). Detection range should vary depending on athmosphere, as it does IRL. Up at 10 km altitude, you can se very far. 1000 meters above London, sometimes you're happy to see your co-pilot. It's not just clouds, but also humidity.

 

What I think is more lacking is that added part of contrast that make a plane way easier to track IRL than on the screen. The flat colors in DCS world i find rather appaling in terms of seeing other planes. I find BoS is doing a bit better in that. Still, planes should appear at a given distance in correlation to the athmosphere (also depending on altitude) and when they appear, they should appear *on all screens*, not just on 4k monitors first.

 

What we have here, that the "pros" see other aircraft as soon as they enter the player bubble is not something that was common back then (and still isn't! Planes still just keep on ramming themselves in mid-air because the pilots didn't see the other!).

 

J E Johnson mentiones an episode, where he was on a mission with his wing, and he saw some Dorniers flying along at some distance. He decided to wait for the first of his mates to call them out and then hand that guy the first shot. After what he thought were like two minutes, he reported the bogeys and thought it was only right that he would get them. The others would react with an icy silence after he mentioned that they were flying formation with the Dorniers for these like 2 minutes. It clearly shows that looking out is something you have to learn. And second is that those Dorniers were certainly not at the edge of where he could see them, they were much closer already. They were close enough for him to directly initiate an attack.

 

So, IMHO 777 can have their 10 km player bubble if they show then the appearing planes to everybody.


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#55 Ace_Pilto

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 17:28

I did concede that 40km is unrealistic, 24 km is a more reasonable outer limit to render a 1 pixel dot.


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#56 II/JG17_HerrMurf

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 17:57

Fair enough but as to your one pixel I suggest multiple renderings. Light gray to white pixel for white AC, medium gray for any shade of gray AC and dark gray for anything else at the dark end of the spectrum because that is pretty much what I see in a typical daytime sky when co-alt at distance. No black pixels!


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If the argument against expanding to the Western Front is simply the Luftwaffe was overwhelmed and defeated then there is absolutely no reason to ever go back to the late war Eastern Front either. 

 

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#57 simplyjames

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 18:11

Ape has a good video on this subject:

youtube.com/watch?v=LsYTPNOKyNA

He has good points about why more people aren't playing multiplayer. Hopefully the distance in which you can see the enemy can be fixed.


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#58 driftaholic

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 19:57

DCS sprites would be a great addition to this game.


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#59 Sokol1

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 21:05

FTR, I've suggested on several occasions that icons fade out on the normal servers at 3-5 km to force better spotting. I'd be fine with a single pixel out to fifteen k on both types of servers.

 

A set like you suggest will educate MP people to spot better - in these NORMAL servers.  :good:

 

Despite hate icons/labels, I had no other option than to use a custom set for DCS SP (before 1.5): a . for planes and * for ground targets, but visible between 25 Km and 8Km - bellow this the targets becomes visible and I am forced to use the old "eyeball". :)


Edited by Sokol1, 09 October 2015 - 21:07.

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#60 Ace_Pilto

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 05:48

Fair enough but as to your one pixel I suggest multiple renderings. Light gray to white pixel for white AC, medium gray for any shade of gray AC and dark gray for anything else at the dark end of the spectrum because that is pretty much what I see in a typical daytime sky when co-alt at distance. No black pixels!

 

+1


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#61 ZachariasX

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 07:57

Fair enough but as to your one pixel I suggest multiple renderings. Light gray to white pixel for white AC, medium gray for any shade of gray AC and dark gray for anything else at the dark end of the spectrum because that is pretty much what I see in a typical daytime sky when co-alt at distance. No black pixels!

 

If you define your pixel already you can place your sprite and don't need to render anything anymore. But I'm not sure if your focus on pixel is any good, as pixels are sized differently on different monitors. And keep in mind even white aircraft appear pitch black (unless you have the sun in your back) at distance seen towards a clear sky. Too much contrast. On the computer screen you had a blueish and a light gray tone with about the same luminosity, whereas IRL the luminosity would be orders of magnitude different.

 

If you displayed an aircraft as soon as it qualified to be shading the first pixel, then you had 2x the spotting range (using the same FOV) on a 4K monitor in comparison to a 1080P monitor. If your 4K monitor is about 2x the size of a one-of-the-mill 1080P monitor, the pixel is equially sized. Thus, that way the entire MP party would be utterly unfair.

 

I'd say, start to display objects allways at the same distance for everyone, and use about similar size in relation to your screen resolution. You know the resolution at wich the game runs, and you know the FOV. Then you can scale them reasonably equal.

 

And yes, objects always always "pop-up" when you are scanning for them in the sky. You NEVER are looking at the correct place in the sky (that would be a very tiny keyhole where your eyes have the good resolution) as you do on a computer screen, but objects enter visible range. At this poing you are not seeing them because you are not tracking them yet with your eyes. Objects move closer, and the better you are, the sooner you will detect them, but them already being rather inside you max. detection range.

 

And finally, indiviual objects not in relation to other things we see bigger than they actually are. It's how the brain processes the image we see. You can in fact enlarge them at distance silghtly and this would be simulating realistic eyesight.


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#62 SharpeXB

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 14:47

If you displayed an aircraft as soon as it qualified to be shading the first pixel, then you had 2x the spotting range (using the same FOV) on a 4K monitor in comparison to a 1080P monitor. If your 4K monitor is about 2x the size of a one-of-the-mill 1080P monitor, the pixel is equially sized. Thus, that way the entire MP party would be utterly unfair.

 

Well multiplayer is already "unfair" in that hardware can always be an advantage. I'm using a 4K screen any my experience with it in DCS 1.2 which renders the models farther away, I can still only see another aircraft at about 10 miles max with either screen. It doesn't let me spot anything farther away compared to 1080p really. It's sharper and I can identify things much better but it doesn't make anything larger.


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#63 ZachariasX

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 15:31

Well multiplayer is already "unfair" in that hardware can always be an advantage. I'm using a 4K screen any my experience with it in DCS 1.2 which renders the models farther away, I can still only see another aircraft at about 10 miles max with either screen. It doesn't let me spot anything farther away compared to 1080p really. It's sharper and I can identify things much better but it doesn't make anything larger.

 

Sure. But that is unfairness "within reason". The important thing is that you have (as you say) about equal spotting distance. The quality of the depicted item will of course be better on your setup which is an advantage, but not an advantage like spoting something at double distance. The difference betwen not spoting and spoting something I feel is greater than beeing able to discriminate plane types. A certain level of unfairness I think we should be able to tolerate. ;)

 

Z


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#64 SharpeXB

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 15:48

Sure. But that is unfairness "within reason". The important thing is that you have (as you say) about equal spotting distance. The quality of the depicted item will of course be better on your setup which is an advantage, but not an advantage like spoting something at double distance. The difference betwen not spoting and spoting something I feel is greater than beeing able to discriminate plane types. A certain level of unfairness I think we should be able to tolerate. ;)

 

Z

The only thing a 4K screen would let you see before you could see it at 1080p would be a single 3840x2160 pixel, which is incredibly small.

I did actually test this out in DCS because the modern jet combat has you engaging targets that are 10 miles away and that's considered "visual range" for those weapons. With either screen 10 miles was the farthest I could spot something and even then it's just a speck when fully zoomed in.

4K does let you use a larger screen and have it look better. But that's mostly immersion value. If you're sitting close enough to a monitor to need antialiasing then you're effectively seeing the pixels. For a typical desktop arrangement that's just a 24" size screen.

But hardware doesn't put players on an equal footing and never will. Head tracking, multiple screens, setting better graphics, HOTAS controllers. It's all part of the game. 4K will quickly become as popular as 1080p so no worry.


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#65 ZachariasX

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 20:39

....

But hardware doesn't put players on an equal footing and never will. Head tracking, multiple screens, setting better graphics, HOTAS controllers. It's all part of the game. 4K will quickly become as popular as 1080p so no worry.

 

...Your hardware specs are like a QED to your statement...  :rolleyes: 

 

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#66 SharpeXB

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Posted 10 October 2015 - 22:47

...Your hardware specs are like a QED to your statement...  :rolleyes: 
 
Z

So what's the point? What you're saying about a 4K monitor being able to spot a plane 2x as far away as 1080p really isn't the case. The game works great at both resolutions.
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#67 ZachariasX

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 07:26

So what's the point? What you're saying about a 4K monitor being able to spot a plane 2x as far away as 1080p really isn't the case. The game works great at both resolutions.

 

No, that would be the case if pixel density would determine when an object is in range to qualify to be drawn as a first shaded pixel. This however does not seem to be the case. Thus, that advantage of a better system is limited, even though it is there (on a tolerable level).


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#68 Ace_Pilto

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 08:01

Remember, we're talking about making planes potentially visible out to 15 miles, not making them obviously visible. They're still going to be very hard (maybe impossible) to see until they are inside 10 miles or so. 

 

I don't think using TrackIR is unfair but it gives me a huge edge over someone who isn't using it, fairness doesn't come into it. This is a competitive game in many senses and anything that can't directly be called cheating is fair. If people have the good fortune to be able to buy and advantage in hardware then that is their prerogative.


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#69 307_Tomcat

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 08:53

Ape has a good video on this subject:

youtube.com/watch?v=LsYTPNOKyNA

He has good points about why more people aren't playing multiplayer. Hopefully the distance in which you can see the enemy can be fixed.

 

 

I had many times same experience as author of this video.


Edited by tomcatqw, 11 October 2015 - 08:54.

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#70 ZachariasX

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 11:17

Remember, we're talking about making planes potentially visible out to 15 miles, not making them obviously visible. They're still going to be very hard (maybe impossible) to see until they are inside 10 miles or so. 

 

I don't think using TrackIR is unfair but it gives me a huge edge over someone who isn't using it, fairness doesn't come into it. This is a competitive game in many senses and anything that can't directly be called cheating is fair. If people have the good fortune to be able to buy and advantage in hardware then that is their prerogative.

 

Would you want those 15 km under all circumstances? I most often do feel the same way as well as the author of the video above. But I think his diagnosis of the observed fact is wrong. Games draw just objects (clouds are such objects as well) and do not have an athmosphere. Unlike in the game, the air is not 100% tansparent. And it doesn't have to be smog conditions for that to have an effect. It is rare (or requiring specific geographic locations) that the air lets you see though it (almost) unobstructed. This effect is more pronounced, the lower you are (and the more air there is). Spoting ability at 10 km altitude is a completely different sport than at 1 km altitude. If you can spot over 2 km at tree top level in average European day, then you are really, really good. High up, this is easy.

 

If there was realistic athmosphere, the effect mentioned in the video would not be that pronounced, as in most cases planes would not be visible anyway at that distance. IRL, we subconciously use this athmosphreic effect to judge distances. On the moon, lacking athmosphere, human eye is almost incapable of judging distances out of the range of stereoscopic vision if known objects are missing in the FoV (which is the common case on the moon). So a furball down low is a bad example. At 10 km altitude, detection range should be such, that the issue mentioned in the vid really is an issue.


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#71 SharpeXB

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 16:08

No, that would be the case if pixel density would determine when an object is in range to qualify to be drawn as a first shaded pixel. This however does not seem to be the case. Thus, that advantage of a better system is limited, even though it is there (on a tolerable level).


My experience with both type of screens, 1080p and UHD in DCS 1.2 which draws the models very far away, is that with either display the farthest I could see another aircraft was at about 10 miles (16 km) and then it's a very small speck even when zoomed in max. It's a safe assumption that there is a slight advantage to the UHD screen but it's not a 2x advantage. I can't see another plane 20 miles away. UHD is twice the resolution so it's twice as sharp, but it's not magnifying anything 2x the size. There are a lot of benefits to using a UHD screen but spotting targets twice as far away isn't really one of them.

Edited by SharpeXB, 11 October 2015 - 16:12.

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#72 SharpeXB

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 19:46

Certainly that draw distance is related to CPU usage given the AFM for the AI etc. So increasing it would mean changing something in that regard
I saw Han had posted some ideas like making only AI close to the player have AFMs or some other solutions. Other sims draw stuff farther out but their AI isn't as advanced. There's sort of a haze in BoS that helps camouflage this distance. In DCS planes that spawned within only 10km would be immediately obvious and distracting. BoS handles this pretty well it seems.
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#73 Dakpilot

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Posted 12 October 2015 - 07:40

I had many times same experience as author of this video.

 

 

http://forum.il2stur...act-visibility/

 

Ape has posted in this other thread, retracting some of his issues from that video

 

post  # ​39

 

maybe you will find some tips in that thread to improve your experience

 

Cheers Dakpilot​



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#74 ESCOMM_FlyMaker

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 20:44

http://forum.il2stur...-help/?p=362829


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#75 seafireliv

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Posted 10 June 2016 - 16:38

I agree with the OP. i`m surprised many more people haven`t complained. I`ve seen them struggle almost silently Online with it. It really does affect air combat. You have to be inside that myopic `bubble` before anything can happen. It`s not very realistic at all.


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#76 iceheart

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Posted 10 June 2016 - 22:14

I agree with the OP. i`m surprised many more people haven`t complained. I`ve seen them struggle almost silently Online with it. It really does affect air combat. You have to be inside that myopic `bubble` before anything can happen. It`s not very realistic at all.

+1


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#77 MadisonV44

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Posted 10 June 2016 - 22:40

I agree, a 10km radius is not realistic at all and this should be considered as the next step of improvements

 

10km is spoiling the gameplay and this is not homogeneous : Desert vs Dogfight ... you have no intermediary ! 

 

Too often it's the desert because you miss every bubble of action. As a result a lot of pilots are frustrated and get concentrated over bases or targets (then everyone get stuck on the same dogfight zone).  

 

Another drawback : it's almost impossible for a bomber to avoid crossing the way of a fighter patrol : As soon as you get something in sight, it's already too close ... you cannot escape ! Suddenly a dot appear and a few seconds later it's dog time ! I remember a time in IL2 46 when we where identifying that a zone was covered by a cap of fighter, then you could elaborate a strategy to avoid, turn around, take altitude, call reinforcements, it was not too late to put a little understanding and strategy in the gameplay.

 

Now if you get the chance to see something, it's too late ... you're struck in the glue. 


Edited by MadisonV44, 10 June 2016 - 22:41.

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#78 339_pan

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 00:21

10km is spoiling the gameplay and this is not homogeneous : Desert vs Dogfight ... you have no intermediary !

 

+1


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#79 Dakpilot

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 07:42

Out of interest what was (is) the actual spotting range in old IL-2 with normal resolution not the super low sometimes used as a bit of an exploit to improve it

 

Cheers Dakpilot


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#80 ESCOMM_FlyMaker

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Posted 11 June 2016 - 07:53

I remember a time in IL2 46 when we where identifying that a zone was covered by a cap of fighter, then you could elaborate a strategy to avoid, turn around, take altitude, call reinforcements, it was not too late to put a little understanding and strategy in the gameplay.

 

Now if you get the chance to see something, it's too late ... you're struck in the glue. 

+1


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