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This is where we will discuss PWCG for BOS


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#1 Jason_Williams

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Posted 18 September 2015 - 20:17

Hello everyone,

 

This sub-forum is where we will discuss PWCG for BOS by Pat Wilson. There is still a ways to go on this project, but it is progressing. If we need anything from the community I will ask for it in this area of the forum. There are many bits of info and content the community may be able to help out with during development and after initial release.

 

You can learn more about PWCG for BOS by reading the following link and watching the included video.

 

http://forum.il2stur...-generator-bos/

 

Jason


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#2 PatrickAWlson

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Posted 18 September 2015 - 23:49

Let the fun begin.  PWCG for BoS is in the very early stages of "barely functional".  I have run effective fighter patrols and IL2 attack missions.  The IL2s dropped bombs but did not make strafing runs.  The fighters fought - so that part is good.  Air start only right now.

 

Bomber missions are not moving through their way points.  Not sure why since the way point movement is identical for different mission types.  

 

Lots of little idiosyncrasies too.  We'll clean things up as we go along.  


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#3 II/JG17_HerrMurf

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Posted 19 September 2015 - 03:07

Not an SP'er but thanks. It is very generous of your time and talents.
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#4 6./ZG26_Emil

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Posted 19 September 2015 - 03:24

Well from a non offliner all I can say it thanks for this, you are going to make a lot of people very very happy :)


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#5 LLv24_Zami

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Posted 19 September 2015 - 07:05

Thanks for the news Pat! Glad to hear about your progress. Thanks once again for doing this, it is a huge favor for single players like me. And there are a lot of us. :salute:

 

Nice to see that also offliners understand the value of PWCG to this title. It benefits all.


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#6 PB0_Foxy

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Posted 19 September 2015 - 14:48

Very very good news !  :salute:


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#7 PA-Sniv

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Posted 19 September 2015 - 17:18

Great news Pat and Jason!

Keep it up!

:)


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#8 4SCT_Vespa

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Posted 19 September 2015 - 17:49

Thanks for your efforts Pat and Jason...your tools drives BoS into a new dimension!


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#9 keeno

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Posted 19 September 2015 - 23:53

Pat,

 

Thanks for all your time and efforts. I use PWCG in RoF and it is brilliant.

 

Cheers again.


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#10 PatrickAWlson

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 03:05

Lot of progress on bombing missions today.  They are starting to look good. 

 

PWCG is generating effective missions right now.  Lots of play testing will be needed to work out the kinks and get the mix right.  I have been making a lot effort in transforming the missions from WWI to WWII.  Higher altitudes, faster speeds, longer distances, different mix of mission types.

 

Dive bombing is next.


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#11 Juri_JS

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 07:20

Dive bombing is one of the biggest problems for me when building missions, because AI planes will only drop one bomb per dive and  will often crash into the ground when they try to pull out of a dive with some of the bombs still attached. I hope you can find a solution for the problem or maybe convince the devs to fix this behaviour.


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#12 Habu

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 07:24

Lot of progress on bombing missions today.  They are starting to look good. 

 

PWCG is generating effective missions right now.  Lots of play testing will be needed to work out the kinks and get the mix right.  I have been making a lot effort in transforming the missions from WWI to WWII.  Higher altitudes, faster speeds, longer distances, different mix of mission types.

 

Dive bombing is next.

Keep in mind that only ventral payload can be used for dive bombing for PE2 and IL2. Bombs in hatch will not drop in dive bombing.


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#13 LLv24_Zami

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 08:18

Some AI behaviour could use more work from devs. I know they are busy right now with new stuff but hope they don`t forget that completely.


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#14 Bando

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 14:46

Thanks Pat!!!!


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System specs:

Spoiler

#15 PatrickAWlson

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 15:25

Remember that my code just builds missions.  I can do  my best to design around AI issues but it is not within my ability to fix them.  With that in mind the feedback is appreciated. 

 

I had not intended to do dive bombing for the IL2 or PE2.  Was not even aware that they were used that way.  


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#16 Dauntless

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 15:34

Lot of progress on bombing missions today.  They are starting to look good. 

 

PWCG is generating effective missions right now.  Lots of play testing will be needed to work out the kinks and get the mix right.  I have been making a lot effort in transforming the missions from WWI to WWII.  Higher altitudes, faster speeds, longer distances, different mix of mission types.

 

Dive bombing is next.

:cool:


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_______________________________

   


#17 PatrickAWlson

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 15:37

First signs of life in a full PWCG mission.  I am flying an HE111 on a high altitude recon mission.  As we cross the front there are planes below.  IL2s going about their business.  Good, they won't bother me.  I cycle through some of the units and I see Russian armored cars attacking a German position.  The IL2s are there to support the Russian assault.  A minute later a group of ME109s appears.  A call on the radio indicates that they are going to engage the IL2s.

 

At this time the whole sim slows to about 1/4 speed as my poor old 6 year old computer is overwhelmed ... and that is on low density settings.

 

Anyhow, life promises to to interesting, especially for those with the horse power to handle it.


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#18 LLv24_Zami

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 15:58

Sounds brilliant! Thanks for the updates :)

 

Is the PWCG going to use premium planes also? I mean La-5 and FW-190.

 

 

Remember that my code just builds missions.  I can do  my best to design around AI issues but it is not within my ability to fix them.  With that in mind the feedback is appreciated. 

 

I had not intended to do dive bombing for the IL2 or PE2.  Was not even aware that they were used that way.  

 

Pe-2 has dive brakes so I think it was used to both level and dive bombing.


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#19 Space_Ghost

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 16:27

Sounds brilliant! Thanks for the updates :)

 

Is the PWCG going to use premium planes also? I mean La-5 and FW-190.

 

 

 

Pe-2 has dive brakes so I think it was used to both level and dive bombing.

 

If it is anything like PWCG from ROF you will be able to select which aircraft you own.


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#20 LLv24_Zami

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 17:10

If it is anything like PWCG from ROF you will be able to select which aircraft you own.

 

Yes, I would imagine same system here. But I was thinking about the fact that Fw-190 wasn`t in Stalingrad battle afaik. La-5 was in limited service, I`m not 100% sure. So is Fw-190 dropped out because of that.


Edited by Zami, 20 September 2015 - 17:14.

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#21 PatrickAWlson

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 18:13

I did find the FW190 at Stalingrad with I JG51.  Not sure how accurate that info is but I'm going with it for now.

 

For starters (as in alpha release) the PE2 will have the same mission profile as the HE111.  I will try to complete the profile by the time of release,  Ju88 also has that mixed profile, so developing the capability to handle it will be useful.

 

initial release will be Stalingrad only and will not handle BoM map or aircraft.  In subsequent releases I will not only add new aircraft but I will also refactor order of battle on older battles to incorporate new planes.  For instance, the Italians were at Stalingrad, so maybe the Macchi was there?  Not sure on that one but you get the idea.


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#22 Habu

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 18:23

Keep in mind that only ventral payload can be used for dive bombing for PE2 and IL2. Bombs in hatch will not drop in dive bombing.

I did a mistake. The IL2 do not perform dive bombing, but PE2 does.


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#23 LLv24_Zami

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Posted 20 September 2015 - 18:30

I did find the FW190 at Stalingrad with I JG51.  Not sure how accurate that info is but I'm going with it for now.

 

For starters (as in alpha release) the PE2 will have the same mission profile as the HE111.  I will try to complete the profile by the time of release,  Ju88 also has that mixed profile, so developing the capability to handle it will be useful.

 

initial release will be Stalingrad only and will not handle BoM map or aircraft.  In subsequent releases I will not only add new aircraft but I will also refactor order of battle on older battles to incorporate new planes.  For instance, the Italians were at Stalingrad, so maybe the Macchi was there?  Not sure on that one but you get the idea.

 

Sounds good!

 

About the Italians, I found this from another forum:

 

Eastern Front operations

In May 1942, the 22° Gruppo Caccia, that had reached its operational limit, was replaced by the newly formed 21° Gruppo Autonomo C.T. composed of 356ª, 382ª, 361ª and 386ª Squadriglia. This unit, commanded by Maggiore (Major) Ettore Foschini, brought new C.202s and 18 new Macchi C.200 fighters.[43] In August 1942, at the beginning of the Soviet offensive they were deployed at the Stalino, Lughansk, Kantemirovka and Millerovo airfields, fighting against the Red Army positions on the east Don river during October–November 1942. the fighters operated in adverse climate conditions (40° to 45° below zero and heavy snow storms) while under heavy Russian fighter-bomber harassment. Under these circumstances, 21° Gruppo - which had 17 C.202s on strength - was rather moderate in deploying the C.202s. Only a total of 17 missions were flown with Folgores on the Eastern Front during a four-month period. The C.202s were forced to escort C.200s alongside Fiat BR.20Ms and Caproni Ca.311s in attacks against Soviet columns, while facing great numbers of new VVS' fighters. The C.202s also escorted CANT Z.1007bis in reconnaissance missions and German transport aircraft. One of these missions was the escort to Junkers Ju 52s flying to Stalingrad, on 11 December 1942, during which Tenente Pilota Gino Lionello was shot down and had to bail out from his Folgore.

After the abandonment of advanced airfields between December 1942 - January 1943 at Voroshilovgrad, Stalino and Tscerkow, the Italian air units operated in defensive actions against a more potent Soviet air offensive, mainly using Ilyushin IL-2s Shturmoviks and Petlyakov Pe-2s. In March 1943, the Corpo Aereo Italiano was detached to Odessa airbase joining Reggiane Re. 2000 Héja I of the Hungarian MKHL 1 and 2/1 Vadászszázad and IAR 80C and Bf 109E/G of Romanian FARR 4 and 5 detached at same base and Saki (Crimea) in a holding action against the V-Vs armada of 2,000 aircraft, at a time when Axis air forces only countered with 300 operative aircraft with very small quantities of fuel, munitions and equipment.

The last effective operation of Corpo Aereo Italiano in Russia occurred on 17 January 1943, when one mixed formation of 25 surviving Macchi fighters (out of a remaining total of 30 C.200s and nine C.202s) attacked Red Army armored and motorized infantry columns to support German and Italian units encircled in Millerovo.


Edited by Zami, 20 September 2015 - 18:32.

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#24 Juri_JS

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 05:19

I did find the FW190 at Stalingrad with I JG51.  Not sure how accurate that info is but I'm going with it for now.

That's not correct. I./JG51 flew Fw-190 during this time but was based far away from Stalingrad. The unit fought in the Battle of Velikie Luki.


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#25 Blooddawn1942

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 06:17

That brings us to the question, if the V.L. map could be featured at some point in the Future.

Anyway. Thanks for creating this for BoS and thus beeing the saviour for us single player folks. :)
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#26 dhillr

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 08:59

This is going to be a legend. Thanks Pat, thanks Jason.  :salute:


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#27 Matt

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 10:37

While its true that the Fw 190 wasn't there, I would still be in favor of seeing it included in the career mode. It should be rare though, compared to the 109. But it would be a bit of a shame not making use of it at all.
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#28 Saurer

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 10:40

Maybe just a box to tick in the config if you want Fw 190's or not if that is possible


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#29 Gunsmith86

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 13:38

My suggestion for the FW 190 and future planes that were not into the fighting is to make a airfield in the rear area of the map where a player can be relocated. There he can try aircrafts that his unit proberbly will have to fly later on in the war. We could even let him try captured aircrafts there so he learns more about his enamy. Such things were done in WW2 so it would be not ahistorical.


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#30 Warhamm

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 13:57

Great news.
 
Pat, perhaps some of my developments for IL2CareerGenerator will be useful to your work . I have a collection of about 500 photos of soviet and german pilots. Full list of objects for logs. Photos and information on awards. Information of many detachment and their airfields. If something of this will be helpful i will share it.

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#31 Jason_Williams

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 15:46

Waltham,

Thanks for the offer. You can send any materials to the email listed in my profile. I'll make sure Pat gets it.

Definitely could use info on medals, units, pilots etc.

Jason
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#32 PatrickAWlson

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Posted 21 September 2015 - 22:57

 

Great news.
 
Pat, perhaps some of my developments for IL2CareerGenerator will be useful to your work . I have a collection of about 500 photos of soviet and german pilots. Full list of objects for logs. Photos and information on awards. Information of many detachment and their airfields. If something of this will be helpful i will share it.

 

 

Thanks.  Appreciate it.  Conversely, you are welcome to any of my resources.  You are probably much further ahead than I am but still, it's there for the asking.


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#33 Picchio

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Posted 22 September 2015 - 13:30

giphy.gif


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#34 6./ZG26_McKvack

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Posted 23 September 2015 - 09:04

A question Pat. Do you think we will see historical missions depending on time? Example in the beginning of BOS you bomb Stalingrad in 111's and later on you do transport missions into the pocket? :)

Regards
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#35 PatrickAWlson

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Posted 23 September 2015 - 14:48

Just to level set expectations, the initial release will have:

Support for Stalingrad map only

Support for Stalingrad plane set only (Me109 F4, Me109 G2, FW1090 A3,LAGG 3, LAGG 5, Yak 1, PE2, He111, JU87 D3, IL2 M42)  

Missions types:

Patrol, intercept, escort, scramble, level bomb, dive bomb, ground attack.

Germans and Russians only

 

Support for aces limited to my ability to acquire information in a programatically usable form

Support for squadrons limited to same

Support for skins limited to same

What I mean by this is that I do not have the time to research and do the data entry for these things.  To the extent that I can get help I will add them.  

 

PWCG is very extensible so in the future anything is possible.  If there are dozens of aces in RoF then there are potentially hundreds in BoS.  Same with skins and squadrons.  There can be new mission types.  Spanish, Romanian, and Italian squadrons have all been mentioned.  These things are all possible at some point.  There are limitless opportunities but, unfortunately, limited time.  It becomes a matter of priorities.  


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#36 =38=Tatarenko

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Posted 23 September 2015 - 15:00

Pat the LA-5 was used a lot at Stalingrad (see the units thread) but the Fw190 never was. 

 

Please make it like the normal campaign that the player can choose it but you'll never see AI planes flying it. Seeing them over Stalingrad would be a real shame and detract from the game for me.


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#37 =38=Tatarenko

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Posted 23 September 2015 - 15:08

incidentally (for later addition) the Stalingrad map features the following BoM planes too:

 

Ju88

I-16
Macchi 202

P-40
Bf-110

Bf-109E7 (Schlacht and Rumanian)


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#38 Bucksnort

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Posted 23 September 2015 - 16:22

Pat the LA-5 was used a lot at Stalingrad (see the units thread) but the Fw190 never was. 

 

Please make it like the normal campaign that the player can choose it but you'll never see AI planes flying it. Seeing them over Stalingrad would be a real shame and detract from the game for me.

 

I agree with this, Pat.  If a player wants to pretend, I guess they should be able to outfit their flight with the FW190, but hopefully no 190's anywhere else in the skies over Stalingrad.

 

Thanks for everything you're doing!


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#39 Jason_Williams

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Posted 23 September 2015 - 16:29

Ok this quickly turned into a mess. I locked the Ace and Skins thread until we first solve the issue of what Units we need. Need to take it step by step since it appears I will need to be the one to prepare the information for Pat.

 

Focus all energy on identifying what Units were in the Stalingrad theater, what planes and what bases they would have used. I need to turn this data into a spreadsheet and then into a format Pat can use.

 

Once have the units complete then we can go back to Aces and Skins since all else flows from the Units involved.

 

Jason


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#40 Warhamm

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Posted 23 September 2015 - 16:29

Patrick, how do you plan to move the front line? In the original campaign 5 episodes for winter offensive? Do you plan to do the same? 

 

Dont try to add many squadrons, aces and skins at first release. It's a lot of work, which can wait. We can play and test with about 10 squadrons at first time. Focus on mission generator. IMHO.


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