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Komaroff

Digital magnetic sensor for control devices _by Komaroff

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R.A.M.S. - Rotary Angle Magnetic Sensor

Digital magnetic sensor, which is already successfully used in control devices (joysticks, pedals, etc.) for computer simulators of various kinds. 

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The sensor responds to the rotation angle (direction) of the magnetic field generated by the permanent magnet, which is mounted on the shaft of control device. 

On picture:    1. Diametrically magnetized magnet; 2. Sensitive chip; 3. Shaft.

 

The main features of the sensor: 

- The resolution of the 8192 digits (13 bits); 

- Directly measured angle range - 180 degrees (using additional methods, this range may be extended); 

- A digital signal is transmitted to the device controller by only a single wire (plus two power wires ), avoiding a large number of wires in body of the control device. 

 

In other words, it is about 0,022 degrees for one digit. 

Thus, for example, for a joystick can be obtained over 1300 digits at 30 degrees angle of rotation of the grip (pedals etc.).

For comparison, this is the same resolution as that of the magnetic sensor KMA200 from Philips/NXP (for example this sensor is supported by controller from Kreml, about it below).

And in this feature, at the moment of the first announcement, better than closest functional analog.  

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Thanks to algorithms and adjusting methods the sensor has a significant linearity and stability.

When installed on axis of the control device the sensor requires no manual mechanical adjustment of the magnet for zero point ( unlike the Hall sensor) and do not preclude the use of terminals involved in an analog mode.

All this leads to comfort in use, as well as simplicity and ease of installation even in the homemade mechanics.

 

Controllers with support of the RAMS digital sensor: 

- BRD digital controller (Baur's design studio (rus), which is a team of enthusiasts of control devices for flight simulators, electronics on mechanics, 3D-model from  -=NT=-Baur); 

- =SPb=RED BARON (about one of the first applications of its controllers with support for digital sensor RAMS in the pedals Slaw (eng), there's a video, His work on "spread wings" forum (rus), Slaw pedals in this forum); 

- Controllers F2/L2 and F3/L3 from Kreml with DIY open firmware (introduced direct support for RAMS digital sensor). 

This list is not final. Support of RAMS digital sensor with the development may be included in other projects (finished or DIY solutions).

 

Printed circuit boards to one version of the sensor (in the picture) are made to order and take into account the features of the different controllers.

As a result, the sensor is not inferior manufactured industrially and is a perfect alternative to existing solutions.

In principle it is possible to even make a miniature version of the sensor to replace the noisy resistors in joystick.

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The allowed range of supply voltage (digital signal level is tied to the power supply) this version of the sensor 3.6 to 8 volts.

But the "undocumented" works and on 3.3 volts. If necessary, you can use a simplified version of the sensor with a 3.3 volts power supply or put the jumper on the board. 

The sensor has an unrealized potential for increasing resolution. But, first, the existing capabilities is more than enough for an absolute majority of control tasks. Second, increasing the resolution would occur due to other characteristics such as noise immunity.

 

Already few hundreds of digital magnetic sensors RAMS are working successfully in control devices from different manufacturers.

 

 

 

Topics in russian BOS forum and "Heavenly slowmover" forum (Baur's forum)

PS. And sorry for my english  :)

 

 

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Ok, I got an old 3 lever throttle device that spikes like crazy.

Would it be possible to get the old potentiometers out there and replace them by RAMS sensors?

 

How (if possible) would I be doing this.

If this is possible, would it also be possible to adjust each and any other potmeter device into RAMS devices?

Edited by Bando

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I use these sensors in my devices. Very high quality sensors. I use them for 2 years - never had a problem with them. Simple and reliable as AK47.

Edited by Slaw

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Komaroff,

 

The most important: how cost, payment options (PayPal?) and shipping cost for "western" side of the world - case you sold for end user consumer. :)

 

And, is compatible with Mega_Mogz MMJoy?

 

I am a little confuse with this "digital" in RAMS - in other digital sensors, like VKB MaRS or Mega_Mogz MMSENS is need specific firmware in USB controller.

 

The common USB controller used be DIY there is BU0836 that have analog inputs for axis.

 

BTW - Post there: http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/forums/243/1/Flight_Sim_Controllers

Bando

 

 

Ok, I got an old 3 lever throttle device that spikes like crazy.

Would it be possible to get the old potentiometers out there and replace them by RAMS sensors?

How (if possible) would I be doing this.

If this is possible, would it also be possible to adjust each and any other potmeter device into RAMS devices?

 

Some old devices are gameport or serial. This old throttle lever had a USB controller inside? What the brand?

But I suspect that even if have is not suitable, because (what I ask above) RAMS work in digital (some binary code) mode, these conventional USB controllers work in analog mode (voltage variation).

 

Anyway getting the RAMS and a compatible USB controller you end with a better quadrant that these COTS ones. :)

Edited by Sokol1

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Ok, I got an old 3 lever throttle device that spikes like crazy.

Would it be possible to get the old potentiometers out there and replace them by RAMS sensors?

 

How (if possible) would I be doing this.

If this is possible, would it also be possible to adjust each and any other potmeter device into RAMS devices?

Unfortunately, at this time, the sensor operates in a digital mode.

Replacing (by size) resistor is possible, if make the minimum SIZE of the sensor to be installed instead of the resistor. But the controller must have the support of a specific digital protocol.

 

The most important: how cost, payment options (PayPal?) and shipping cost for "western" side of the world - case you sold for end user consumer.  :)

And, is compatible with Mega_Mogz MMJoy?

I am a little confuse with this "digital" in RAMS - in other digital sensors, like VKB MaRS or Mega_Mogz MMSENS is need specific firmware in USB controller.

...

My location - Kharkiv (Kharkov), Ukraine. Shipping cost I can only define by postal calculator. 

The cost depends on several parameters. On average 10-11 usd. More detailed, it is possible in PM.

Mega_mozg at the moment did not support the sensor in the DIY project.

DIY controller project from Kreml have support of RAMS sensor.

My sensor is designed to obtain maximum accuracy with the balance of other useful options (such as noise immunity). For this is a special two-step adjusting procedure in the production.

Other sensors without adjusting procedure in general are accurate "how lucky". :) For example KMA200 also is adjusted in the production.

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I know Kreml project, but make that thing in SMD is not for me (I did some Mjoy/Mjoy16). :)

 

The ideal option - from buyers point of view - is if you can sold the RAMS sensors and a compatible USB controller together.

Edited by Sokol1

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...

The ideal option - from buyers point of view - is if you can sold the RAMS sensors and a compatible USB controller together.

Exactly.:)

Now, if necessary, you can contact the controller manufacturer.

In addition. 

Video about the test electronics on the pedals of Slaw.

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Bando

 

 

Some old devices are gameport or serial. This old throttle lever had a USB controller inside? What the brand?

But I suspect that even if have is not suitable, because (what I ask above) RAMS work in digital (some binary code) mode, these conventional USB controllers work in analog mode (voltage variation).

 

Anyway getting the RAMS and a compatible USB controller you end with a better quadrant that these COTS ones. :)

 

Hi Sokol, I got an old Flight throttle quadrant from Saitec. Used it for about 6 months and then it started spiking. Have not used it since I purchased a CH throttle quadrant.

The CH also (after 4 years of pretty frequent use) starts to spike a little.

I was hoping to open the Saitec, replace the Potmeters with RAMS or Hall sensors (anything not being a potmeter) and have a much better device left in the proces. If done correctly by myself, I'd do it for the CH as well.

 

I understand I also need some controller circuit to let Windows make sense of it all.

I am not a mechanic and sparsely used soldering devices, so is it possible to find on the internet as how I need to go about this. I did search, but it never revealed what I'm looking for. Perhaps you know where to look?

 

 

Bando

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Bando,

 

To don't divert the focus of Komaroff topic I send a MP for you. ;)

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I received. Thanks.

I'll get into it shortly.

 

Good stuff    :salute:

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From other topic.

Komaroff

 

What magneto resistive sensor is available for buy, ready to use in analog mode?

 

Ask this because old controllers, like CH or Cougar is no compatible with digital sensors.

 

For use this sensors as potentiometer (resistor) replacement.

I think about this.

I want use inexpensive DAC chip.  10 or 12 bit output resolution ?

But in order to do good design I need to know the most popular form factors of this option the sensor.

What a resistor and a joystick must be replaced more often. Naturally, this should be fairly respectable joystick.

Otherwise, it will be easier to throw out the broken and buy a new one.

Under the most demanded form factor I can develop and order good PCB.

Additionally need help with resistor dimensions and dimensions of mounting location.

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To give a idea of this, people pay 50$ in (2) HALL sensor over a small PCB, connectors, magnet and some kind of supports for magnets. Of course that guy are selling a solution and not only parts:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2676780&postcount=7

 

Other people still paying 100$ in Midori HALL sensor for use in Cougar - because some MOD seller use this sensor in the past, so they are "the better".  :)

Edited by Sokol1

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Analog?

 

Cougar/CH owners need analog "PnP" sensors.

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No, it's just a restyling.

The analog output will be in the next year. Initially - prototype. PCB of prototype is ready. The form factor from R.A.M.S.-Full. 

BTW. Whitch config of mounting holes need for Cougar/CH ?   Which form of the PCB ? Help me :)

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Do these sensors can simply replace "jumping" cheap pots in Saitek throttle quadrant? (Pz 45)

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Very odd how these new joysticks dont last and have issues.

MY Saitek ST290 pro well over 15 years old with well over 5,000 hours of use and abuse in flight sims and space games.

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For simple replacement of potentiometers need sensors with analog output.

For quadrant occurs the problem of shielding near sensors. The magnet of one sensor may affect on sensor of near located axis.

What potentiometers used in the quadrant ?

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So how do we obtain them? I want them for my hobby project.

 

 

....and forgive my ignorance (I am not an electronic guy) what is the benefit of using them over magnetic hall sensors?

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What USB controller you have, this sensor require specific one, with support for digital input in axis.

 

 

 

what is the benefit of using them over magnetic hall sensors?

 

From DIY perspective specially this, easy positioning or magnets:

 

"requires no manual mechanical adjustment of the magnet for zero point ( unlike the Hall sensor) "

Edited by Sokol1

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You can't, MMjoy2 firmware has support for contactless sensor in digital mode only for  TLE5010/11 through serial interface (6 wires).

 

Can use other contactless sensor if they work in analog mode, e.g. GVL224 MagREZ.

 

You find TLE5010/11 assembled in PCB - although is simple assemble one, use few components - in Aliexpress.

 

GVL224 can be PM in this forum.

 

R.A.M.S. is not good option for DIY because the requirement of specific USB controller based in Microchip m/c (see compatible models listed in OP), I think their market target is more (small) manufacturers like Baur/BRD, Slaw.

Edited by Sokol1

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I have just found your post about MMJoy2 

http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/3899105/1/mmjoy-mmjoy2-build-your-own-usb-controller

 

Wow! thats a lot of great information. as far as I understand from what you have noted that MMJoy2 can support up to 8 axis using 12 bits (4096 position) using external ADC MCP3201, 3202, 3204, 3208.

if not 13bit at least you say it supports 12bit. But I dont get exactly why not 13bits? Why exactly RAMS is not compatible? I thought it would be universal.

Edited by Europa

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MMjoy2 was a improvement made by MEGAMOZG over (2004) Mindaugas MJoy8/16 idea - a low cost USB controller option for DIY.

Why some limitations is the used ATMEGA32u4 internal ADC is 10 bits, and the external ADC supported models is 12 bits.

 

BTW - About resolution, VKB say recently in Russian forum that resolution above 10 bit for the limited movement angle of domestic joysticks is "eccentricity".

 

Thing is that this sensors that work in digital mode require specific code and the code programmer choose add support for ATMEGA but not for Microchip or ARM32 or vice versa. 

 

Eg. Warthog Melexis 3D digital sensor work only with Tm controller.

VKB MaRS digital sensor work only with Njoy32 controller (ARM32).

 

Fortunately MMjoy2 can use TLE5010/11 sensor in digital mode and this sensor is a cheap option, requiring only a capacitor and few resistors as additional components and use analog sensors.

 

Other good option for DIY - although complete customizable firmware cost 15$ - is Easy Joy32 One, that use the cheap STM32F103C8T6

Why I ask above for Komaroff a analog version, this will be compatible with any USB controller for joystick.

Edited by Sokol1
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Hi all. 

Analog?

Cougar/CH owners need analog "PnP" sensors.

About the analog voltage output and the ability to replace of dead potentiometers in existing joysticks to magnetic sensor.
I have long considered options to make an alternative, "fill the niche" of the discontinued KMA200 chip (supported for example in the Kremls L2, F2, F3 controllers), which had the option of analog output voltage. 
The motivation for practical implementation was the questions from the Brazilian pilot Sokol1 (Sokol1_br), well-known in our community, about the application of developments and methods in the analog axes of existing joysticks with native controllers to replace the dead potentiometers. 
I decided to implement an analog output using a DAC chip (digital-to-analog converter).  

post-16504-0-88210400-1501138856_thumb.jpg
This is not the final version, so the photo has focused mainly on the DAC chip. It looks like a "teaser" :)
DAC chip, shown in the photo, is installed, because it was then available. Now I'm reworking with smaller chip cases.
I had to put a slightly more powerful processor. The previous one was packed with code to the limit.
In general, the implementation of the analog output had little affected on the price. At cost, almost on the cost of the chip DAC and small strapping, necessary for setting operating modes.
The DAC chips in the photo and the planned ones have a resolution of 12 bits (4096 discretes of output voltage).
Naturally, the efficiency of their use will depend on a number of factors. In particular, from the operating range of the angles, the range of rotation of the handle of the control device.
In some cases, only 10 bits is enough, but I thought - let it be a stock, it is useful.

 The nuances of using the control axes (in particular roll, pitch, yaw, trottle) entail the need to be able to adjust and calibrate the output voltage of the sensor for a particular type of axis and its personal characteristics. Therefore, we have to look for a compromise (improvise) between the limited dimensions of the sensor and a relatively wide range of variations of the necessary settings in order to obtain a sufficiently universal sensor.
In accordance with the settings, the prepared signal (the angle value) will be recalculated into the voltage required for to be fed to the ADC of the control device. 
Among the planned settings are axes with and without center, automatic and manual calibration, with and without inversion. The settings are planned by jumpers.
The possibility to use the sensor in digital mode is saved. 
Dimensions of the sensor I want to do the same as before 

post-16504-0-35525700-1501139053_thumb.jpg

in PDF

DS_RAMS_full.PDF

In fact, this method of obtaining analog voltage does not depend on the technology of extracting a useful signal (the angle of rotation of the axis).
I prefer using the technology of classic magnetoresistors (MR) on the KMZ41 chip, which combines stability, reliability, budget cost and ease of use.
In my opinion, from other technologies on a magnetic principle (for example, GMR (giant giant magnetoresistor) and Hall effect), existing solutions lose at least one of the listed parameters.
Therefore, among my developments using a number of solutions MR, GMR (for example), several varieties on the Hall effect, I give priority to the classic MR (more precisely - anisotropic MR, AMR).

Now I'm doing the WIP version of a cheap small-sized adapter for converting the digital signal of an excellently proven classic digital sensor from this topic to analog voltage. In particular, to replace the failed potentiometers of existing joysticks.
Running forward, I can say that this will be a 4-channel version for the possibility of obtaining the voltages of a standard set of axes of joysticks - roll, pitch, yaw, trottle. 

PS. The main driver of developments is the interest to physics, mathematics and algorithms, searching for non-standard and best solutions. 
 I will not hide that it pleases, when my developments are used in the constructions of enthusiasts-joystickers and have a practical interest in the community.

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Dear Komaroff, Are your sensors still on sale? 

 

I've sent you a PM to avia-sim.ru.

 

Please check it if you read this reply ))

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