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Gomwolf

You guys should try War Thunder now.

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Ok. Before start, I was a big hater of War thunder.

 

When it comes out, I hope it will be next-gen IL-2 1946. I spent big money for investment but they disappointed me. After that, I called it Shit Thunder. Few days ago, WT was updated and... it revived. Do you guys remember IL-2 1946 4.08m? The golden age of IL-2 1946. Before Daidalos destory the game. War Thunder is very similar with 'that' IL-2 1946. FM, DM, Scaling and etc. Far better than before.

 

I had same hope to IL-2 BoS. It have better graphics, better physical engine and actually it was great before 1.007 update. After that, FM and DM ruined. Even it does not match with Soviet documents! It is most important core part of flight simulation game. I am disappointed and I have no plan to buy futher products now. Actually, I am waiting IL-2 CoD Team Fusion 5.0.

 

Lot's of flight simulation players doesn't like arcadic name tag, chatting system, and matching system of WT. However, it is getting better. It have huge amount of players, lot's of planes, better online gameplay environment and now they got better FM/DM, even they have worse physical game engine. Now it is pleasure playing WT.(I never thought I'd say this.)

 

If 777 keep ignore their problem and does not fix it, IL-2 BoS will be weed out from flight simulation market. I really do not want that kind of end. Please do something. Your competitors improving their products.

Edited by =Bout1=Gomwolf_K_

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Why did you post this in General Discussion?

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Ok. Before start, I was a big hater of War thunder.

 

When it comes out, I hope it will be next-gen IL-2 1946. I spent big money for investment but they disappointed me. After that, I called it Shit Thunder. Few days ago, WT was updated and... it revived. Do you guys remember IL-2 1946 4.08m? The golden age of IL-2 1946. Before Daidalos destory the game. War Thunder is very similar with 'that' IL-2 1946. FM, DM, Scaling and etc. Far better than before.

 

I had same hope to IL-2 BoS. It have better graphics, better physical engine and actually it was great before 1.007 update. After that, FM and DM ruined. Even it does not match with Soviet documents! It is most important core part of flight simulation game. I am disappointed and I have no plan to buy futher products now. Actually, I am waiting IL-2 CoD Team Fusion 5.0.

 

Lot's of flight simulation players doesn't like arcadic name tag, chatting system, and matching system of WT. However, it is getting better. It have huge amount of players, lot's of planes, better online gameplay environment and now they got better FM/DM, even they have worse physical game engine. Now it is pleasure playing WT.(I never thought I'd say this.)

 

If 777 keep ignore their problem and does not fix it, IL-2 BoS will be weed out from flight simulation market. I really do not want that kind of end. Please do something. Your competitors improving their products.

 

I disagree with you on the most parts. I came over from War Thunder to IL2(s) and DCS back then. Didn't play it for a year, but with the issues this game has right now, and waiting for DCS2, i thought i'd give it another go. Installed it a few days ago, set up controls, and jumped into simulator mode - just to realize, that they apparently erased the only fun mode - the historic events. Right now it's only this 2vs2 duell [Edited]shit, or just random gameplay on random maps, with random planes, that don't even match the same historic timeframe. 

No thanks, I'd come back to BoS/Clod/whatsoever a 1000 times before playing War Thunder again.

My highest hopes in flight sims are right now with DCS2..

followed by BoS/Bom.. but they really have to find a way for more interesting multiplayer missions. The only way right now to get fun gameplay, is to participate in squadron missions.

Edited by Bearcat
Langiage

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I disagree with you on the most parts. I came over from War Thunder to IL2(s) and DCS back then. Didn't play it for a year, but with the issues this game has right now, and waiting for DCS2, i thought i'd give it another go. Installed it a few days ago, set up controls, and jumped into simulator mode - just to realize, that they apparently erased the only fun mode - the historic events. Right now it's only this 2vs2 duell shit, or just random gameplay on random maps, with random planes, that don't even match the same historic timeframe. 

No thanks, I'd come back to BoS/Clod/whatsoever a 1000 times before playing War Thunder again.

My highest hopes in flight sims are right now with DCS2..

followed by BoS/Bom.. but they really have to find a way for more interesting multiplayer missions. The only way right now to get fun gameplay, is to participate in squadron missions.

 

 

I love DCS, too. However I have to play DCS with over 300 ping. 300 ping is good enough for other games but not DCS. You can't understand about this before you do this. You have to shot a barrage for few hits. Bf109K-4 is worst. Only 60 ammo for main caliber. I really hope DCS 2.0 improve their online gameplay environment.

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And its more awesome now, TD has kept the game alive and kicking.

 

It is quite good know but not better. TD's Superfire make game sxxks. 4.08 was better I think.

Edited by =Bout1=Gomwolf_K_

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Speaking as someone who was actually present for the "golden age" of Il-2 1946 I'd rather spend a week in prison than go through "flying" in War Thunder.

 

 

It's nothing like Il-2 46 ever was, not even remotely similar. Even before Team Daidalos made it better by improving the AI, adding more planes, standardising a lot of features (like increased resolution and widescreen that we previously had to use mods for) and fixing the ridiculous engine management (Run away all day at full boost and RPM with everything in the red.) Team Daidalos kept a lot of players in the game with their patches and it's played massively offline still but it got too old to attract the same multi-player attention as it once had because people like nice, shiny, pretty colours and being pandered to with things like mouse control, not because the things you don't like about it "ruined it". 

 

I'm incredulous that you seriously have the audacity to come here and compare '46 to WT? It's astounding. 

 

For one, there is no mouse control in '46 and configuring controls is a nightmare in WT, the axis modifiers make about as much sense as starting a stamp collection in a wind tunnel. The controls are spread out across three different difficulty modes and presented in a generic way that makes about as much sense to the layman as the combined works of Shakespeare makes to a gopher. They are difficult to find and confusing to map and then, when you do change game modes, half of them no longer work despite clearly being mapped in the config.

 

With that nightmare over you join a sim battle and find that you have to slam the stick around like an actor in a low budget air war movie to get any kind of response from the aircraft. It becomes immediately apparent that there's no flight modeling beyond up, down, left, right, fast and slow. So you suffer all this while some idiot shouts at you that you need to "Capture more zones". There are no squadrons, no online wars, no dedicated servers, no battles with any historical or chronological context between some vague restrictions. 

 

War Thunder is to Il-2 1946 what running into the wind with your arms stretched out and shouting "NEEOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWW" is to flying a in real aircraft.

 

Now speaking of ping and DCS, the other night I was playing on the JG-27 server with a ping of 350. I lined up a 109K-4 and fired a single burst that set him alight. Two more attacks resulted in  two more victories because I configured the aircraft well enough and shot accurately. Not because I bought premium ammo or a better plane but because I worked my butt off practising and learning. In WT I can slam shells into an enemy all day and not do any real damage through packet loss despite playing at half the ping (But ten times the packet loss) and even if a plane catches fire it will just fly away and yet the slightest damage to my aircraft results in wings falling off because I haven't paid for any really good planes or upgrades. (Beacuse that's what they did in WW2 right? There was this big department store where pilots went to buy parts for their planes and only the rich ones survived since poor people only got to fly biplanes...)

 

Sorry OP and no offense but if you're looking to compare WT favourably to Il-2 circa 4.07, 8, and 9m then you're either deluded or you just weren't there. 

  • Upvote 3

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I tested WT some time ago, then left it as a arcade game for mouse users.

I v checked WT few days ago.

 

They changed a lot, but the most important issues with FM are the same.

 

Energy managment completly sucks. During aerial combat the most crucial factors are :

- engine power

- flaps managment

 

Your radius cant affect the situation so much like in other sims. Air combat for low level players ( ...not the virtual pilots ).

 

And I`m talking about the Sim battles/Full Real mode of course...

 

Arcade and Real battles just dont ever exist...

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And its more awesome now, TD has kept the game alive and kicking.

Not really, for me, TD was just "another modding team", with interesting ideas, but on the same level as DBW, HSFX, IEM ...

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Speaking as someone who was actually present for the "golden age" of Il-2 1946 I'd rather spend a week in prison than go through "flying" in War Thunder.

 

 

It's nothing like Il-2 46 ever was, not even remotely similar. Even before Team Daidalos made it better by improving the AI, adding more planes, standardising a lot of features (like increased resolution and widescreen that we previously had to use mods for) and fixing the ridiculous engine management (Run away all day at full boost and RPM with everything in the red.) Team Daidalos kept a lot of players in the game with their patches and it's played massively offline still but it got too old to attract the same multi-player attention as it once had because people like nice, shiny, pretty colours and being pandered to with things like mouse control, not because the things you don't like about it "ruined it". 

 

I'm incredulous that you seriously have the audacity to come here and compare '46 to WT? It's astounding. 

 

For one, there is no mouse control in '46 and configuring controls is a nightmare in WT, the axis modifiers make about as much sense as starting a stamp collection in a wind tunnel. The controls are spread out across three different difficulty modes and presented in a generic way that makes about as much sense to the layman as the combined works of Shakespeare makes to a gopher. They are difficult to find and confusing to map and then, when you do change game modes, half of them no longer work despite clearly being mapped in the config.

 

With that nightmare over you join a sim battle and find that you have to slam the stick around like an actor in a low budget air war movie to get any kind of response from the aircraft. It becomes immediately apparent that there's no flight modeling beyond up, down, left, right, fast and slow. So you suffer all this while some idiot shouts at you that you need to "Capture more zones". There are no squadrons, no online wars, no dedicated servers, no battles with any historical or chronological context between some vague restrictions. 

 

War Thunder is to Il-2 1946 what running into the wind with your arms stretched out and shouting "NEEOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWW" is to flying a in real aircraft.

 

Now speaking of ping and DCS, the other night I was playing on the JG-27 server with a ping of 350. I lined up a 109K-4 and fired a single burst that set him alight. Two more attacks resulted in  two more victories because I configured the aircraft well enough and shot accurately. Not because I bought premium ammo or a better plane but because I worked my butt off practising and learning. In WT I can slam shells into an enemy all day and not do any real damage through packet loss despite playing at half the ping (But ten times the packet loss) and even if a plane catches fire it will just fly away and yet the slightest damage to my aircraft results in wings falling off because I haven't paid for any really good planes or upgrades. (Beacuse that's what they did in WW2 right? There was this big department store where pilots went to buy parts for their planes and only the rich ones survived since poor people only got to fly biplanes...)

 

Sorry OP and no offense but if you're looking to compare WT favourably to Il-2 circa 4.07, 8, and 9m then you're either deluded or you just weren't there. 

Nailed it.

OP I actually downloaded and tried WT based on this thread.

I want that hour of my life back.

Not really, for me, TD was just "another modding team", with interesting ideas, but on the same level as DBW, HSFX, IEM ...

DBW, HSFX, and UltraPack all based themselvs upon the latest update from TD, much of the advancment we have is due to the constant expansion TD brings.

And the new AI? Way better than any AI mod we ever had.

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DBW, HSFX, and UltraPack all based themselvs upon the latest update from TD, much of the advancment we have is due to the constant expansion TD brings.

And the new AI? Way better than any AI mod we ever had.

Yes, but they would have existed even without TD's work.

TD's work is very good, that's why most package adapted to the latest TD version, but modders can do without it (IES)

Edited by jeanba

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I tried War Thunder again just recently. I found it very irritating and deleted it. Each to their own I guess.

 

 

PS... Diadalus Team rocks. ;)

 

PPS.... Love your doggy avatar!

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Better FM/DM ? 

Dont make me laugh, I worked there for 2 years and I know what kind of crap is pushed on daily basis as flight models. Look at N1K2-J which for over 2.5 years cant get any decent flight model, now being UFO again. My good friend was doing Flight Models for the for some time, lately he did some work for Vintage Wings in Canada (those guys not only preserve but fly real Spitfires and Hurricane on daily basis) and just for the sake of seeing what has changed he and some Spitfire pilot installed Wt. It's no even close to realism of flight, they had bad experiences and quickly uninstalled it. 

As for the DM. There is little realism in how most of the guns seem to be working, or how the damage is received and calculated. It takes few .303 hits to remove your wingtip, but burst of 20 mm's may do nothing to your machine. And new damage model indicator is so incredibly unreadable ...

 

WT may be good for tanks. Else its not even close to Il-2 1946, not to mention BoS or DCS. 

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"Do you guys remember IL-2 1946 4.08m? The golden age of IL-2 1946. Before Daidalos destory the game"

 

Just out of interest what was done/changed in patch 4.09 and after that destroyed the game Il-2 1946 ?

 

Cheers Dakpilot

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To me War Thunder, as a flight sim, is as dead as always. I had it since beta. However, The tank aspect of it is a lot of fun for me. Maybe because I'm getting burned out with flight sims, maybe because I don't take the ground war too seriously, but I have lots of fun, flanking and camping the crap out of the other team in my lovely Jagdpanther. :lol:

 

And BTW, Team  Daidalos is awesome.

Edited by Jaws2002

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I haven't done much tanking, recently re-installed just to that actually but I got bogged down trying fiddle with the planes. 

 

It looks pretty good though, is the hardcore mode anything like the old "Red Orchestra" mods? They got me a bit interested in tanks there for a while. 

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I'll only play WT for tanks. And even then prefer simulation tank battles. I eagerly await an implementation of Tanks in BoS. I know, I know, here come the "tanks in BOS! HOW DARE YOU!!!" Crowd.

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I find that hating on WT is the next "cool" thing to do lately. I think its a great soft-sim, that is a very good entry point for people that are first time encountering a flight sim. Having that platform to first try SB and buy the stick, learn to deal with basics of a flight. I like the standard mission layout. You fly once and if you die, you go to the hangar. So you realy have to watch out not to "die". I like those breaks between flights. It feels like two teams fighting for supremacy.

 

 

Of course the game is not  as advanced as BOS or DCS, but I nevertheles would say that its not as bad as some of you describe it. And I am certainly not going to call people names like some do, for playing WT. And I flew in IL2 (46) and CloD and I tried BOS(my PC sucks so I can't fly more) and I fly in DCS. :coffee:

 

FM/DM wise, not realy impressive. A lot of bugs and problems with how planes react to damage and damage output and FMs are a mixed bag as usual. Some planes become UFOs, while some can't even take off. But I can have a good time there. Just lower your expectations and play... or don't. But for Pete's sake, don't call people names/exclude) just because they enjoy what you don't. :joy:

Edited by =LD=Solty

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i prefer to see my brother in a brothel than playing war thunder

  • Upvote 1

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i prefer to see my brother in a brothel than playing war thunder

Friends don't let friends play warthunder.

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I'll only play WT for tanks. And even then prefer simulation tank battles. I eagerly await an implementation of Tanks in BoS. I know, I know, here come the "tanks in BOS! HOW DARE YOU!!!" Crowd.

 

I look forward to multi-ops capability. It's done in Aces High II, flying cover for tank assaults or attacking a tank assault force that is human controlled and over running your own assets. SO_MUCH_FUN!

 

I want 200+ player capable servers for 777's series, and to have player controlled land vehicles would just be awesome. Add in, for a-historical but fun MP servers, dynamic front line and a war system (much of which is already present) and there's so many hours of online gameplay right there.

 

 

 

As far as OP... BoS is far from being "weed out" from the air combat simulation market. I've been playing these for over two decades online, and the 777 series is awesome. I had so many problems with Maddox Il-2 v1.0, through its entire life span up to 1946. I liked it. I didn't love it. It was fun, but I had many gripes because there were SO many issues and problems with the ground modelling and flight modelling. Not simple performance, not a 109 slightly faster or a Spitfire turning better but omissions in modelling - they didn't model lateral traction with the landing gear, there were several major updates where there was ZERO prop drag, for several major versions ALL aircraft had the same torque, g-scope and p-factor values - the SAME and EVEN THE JETS!!!, and even with their 4.0 FM you could point a P38 straight vertical, chop throttle, slam throttle while pulling straight back on the elevator and do some of the most bizarre crap ever. The 4.0 FM is also the CLoD FM with some additions but not a complete overhaul, like start from scratch, which that FM needed... so....

 

I've played War Thunder, and that is the future of gamers. Like Call of Duty is the future of infantry military simulations. When people want to play a real sim, it won't be War Thunder.

 

I was still playing Aces High and AHII during Maddox's Il-2 series because that series was simply free with some different planes AH didn't have but AH was better FM wise.

 

777's start of the Il-2 series, on the other hand, not so much. I don't like it, I F'IN LOVE IT.

 

Let's also look at this: the 777 guys were a bunch of Il-2 players. A group of WWII air combat fans. They played, and we've played against, them in the Maddox Il-2 series. They hosted servers and ran tournaments. They went off and built RoF because historical air combat is their passion. I'll stand behind the 777 guys because they know what they are doing and because they are far more passionate about it.

Edited by FuriousMeow

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Its just the way people treat each other based on what game they play. People who say "the real sim" or "real virtual pilots don't fly in WT", its just silly.

 

"Normal" people would say "Wierdos, instead of doing something valuable, they stay at home and play their simulations like some dorks" or "Want to fly a plane? Fly a real one". Realy you don't have to segregate people, based on what difficuly/complexity level they want to play.

 

War Thuder is free, I don't see a problem with it. It is its own thing and many people I know started flying via that game, and moved from WT to other sims.

Edited by =LD=Solty
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Strange, I always thought WT was way better in closed beta than whatit became afterwards. No unlocks, great comunity and lot of sim players. Oh good times.

 

Anyway WT is not the ultimate crap sim some try to put it. There's no argument against it's lack of historical accuracy, physical nightmares and game mechanics (cough MM) but it has a great attraction for total newcomers that just begin to learn the basics of simming.

 

That does not only include flying an airplane but also situational awarenes, spotting and (to some extent) navigation.

 

The fighting itself is crap for most of the part withat least half the planes having broken FMs (which of course are flown most numberously).

 

During my sim career I learned spotting and situational awareness in WT but hit a.brick wall in terms of air conbat tactics and manouvres. Than I started playing RoF where I learned air combat in a totally new way. Most of that expirience still serves me well in BoS.

 

Btw. if you want to know how WT can feel like take the P-51 d or P-47 out for a spin. Those have currently top notch FMs and are suprisingly enjoyable to fly.

Edited by Stab/JG26_5tuka
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It's for kids, some of them will grow up into real sim pilots so it serves the cause.

Actually I think there's nothing wrong with that. It's like the minor league that can recruit players for games like this.

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Okay, On the whole War Thunder thing. The idea of the game is very solid. You've got the main nations, different classes, tanks, a bunch of stuff to do. But. The thing that kills it for me is the amount of time you need to invest to get to where you want.

My profile is level 93, so you'd imagine I have everything I want, yes? Kinda. After you get a tank or plane (after spending about a week on it), you need to upgrade it. This takes longer than the initial research process its self, and the performance difference between a fully upgraded vehicle is completely different than the same model stock.

A few of the flight models are absolute BS. For example, the Bf-109 G-2/trop can out turn the Spitfire Mk.Vb/trop with gunpods equipped.

The teir system just doesn't work, as it's based on player performance in the plane, this leads to the F-84 fighting Fw-190 Ds, and the P/F-80C fighting MiG-15s.

As for the community, a member of COG got kicked because he decided to go on a random team killing spree (this happened yesterday). But, is it like WoT, where you get suspended for team damage? No. TK two people in RB, and you just get kicked from the match.

Control wise, mouse aim is god here. If you want to play RB with a joystick, good luck.

 

In short, War Thunder is a very good game idea, but it gets shut down by a horrid tier system, borked flight and damage models (rounds also 'spark'), a very boring grind and post grind, one of the most toxic communities I've seen, and a control scheme that babies players.

 

Oops, I went on my rant again  :P

Edited by =ICOGI=milopugdog

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Actually I think there's nothing wrong with that. It's like the minor league that can recruit players for games like this.

 

Yeah, that's what I was driving at, I used to play the 8-bit classic "1942" at the arcade amongst other aircraft themed games before we had a PC and here I am. War Thunder is like a time machine compared to those old games.

 

Anyway, I'm keen to try the tanks so somebody needs to help me hi-jack this topic to talk about them.

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It's for kids, some of them will grow up into real sim pilots so it serves the cause.

Define a real sim pilot. Who gave you the licence? Who tested you?

 

I fly since Janes Attack Squadron and later I flew on IL2 and then IL2 46(my first multiplayer) and then I played CloD, and the War Thuder and then I bought BOS and DCS.

 

You are the one that should grow up and realise that adult people can choose what they want and not follow orders from the likes of you that act like rebelious teens.

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Yeah, that's what I was driving at, I used to play the 8-bit classic "1942" at the arcade amongst other aircraft themed games before we had a PC and here I am. War Thunder is like a time machine compared to those old games.

 

Anyway, I'm keen to try the tanks so somebody needs to help me hi-jack this topic to talk about them.

I love it when my team is full of people who try to penetrate the front of a Tiger. Or when I get destroyed 5 minuets into the match and can't respawn. Or when I destroy 4 tanks, but don't get squat for research.

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Define a real sim pilot. Who gave you the licence? Who tested you?

 

I fly since Janes Attack Squadron and later I flew on IL2 and then IL2 46(my first multiplayer) and then I played CloD, and the War Thuder and then I bought BOS and DCS.

 

You are the one that should grow up and realise that adult people can choose what they want and not follow orders from the likes of you that act like rebelious teens.

 

And you are the one that should try reading my posts before getting on your high horse of folly, fanboism and pubescent petulance.

 

 

I love it when my team is full of people who try to penetrate the front of a Tiger. Or when I get destroyed 5 minuets into the match and can't respawn. Or when I destroy 4 tanks, but don't get squat for research.

 

How long does it take to get a Tiger? I only have what might be optimistically called armoured cars. Did you buy your way through the tiers or is it possible to grind up to a decent tank in a reasonable amount of time?

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And you are the one that should try reading my posts before getting on your high horse of folly, fanboism and pubescent petulance.

 

 

 

How long does it take to get a Tiger? I only have what might be optimistically called armoured cars. Did you buy your way through the tiers or is it possible to grind up to a decent tank in a reasonable amount of time?

I'm what my squadron would call a 'premium [Edited], thus meaning I collected premium vehicles. So, I kinda bought my way up? But I am yet to get a Tiger. I run out of patience for the game so fast that I can't even sit in queue for 5 mins. And no, you can't get tanks in a reasonable amount of time. I wouldn't even waste the time trying to get it.

Edited by Bearcat
Language

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Come on people, I got my start in air combat games with "World of Warplanes", the unbelievably terrible turd excreted from Wargaming several years ago.

For those of you who have never heard of it, it's the War Thunder of War Thunders.

 

Everybody needs a start, you don't go from nothing to DCS and X-Plane 10.  I started playing WT after I'd already been addicted to 1946, and I still (occasionally) play it as a fun arcade game.

Just because you only like sims doesn't mean that all sim pilots only enjoy sims themselves.

Tanks are nice, although they'd be more realistic and more entertaining with a M rating and infantry though.   ;)

Edited by CF-105
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it as a fun arcade game
  I think this is what is relevant, Its an "arcade" game. I don't know why people constantly try to compare WT to a sim because it isn't. It has badged as one but it sure ain't.  Sure you can have fun grinding away, or spend 700 quid on golden eagles to go premium.  Then you can buy a Tiger to obliterate the other poor saps T-80 and win win win! 

 

Is it fun? For awhile yes.

Is it a sim? Nope.

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It definetly has sim elements in it that give it the potential of being a quite nice combination of game and simulation flying elements. The only issue is that most of the sim feautures (FMs, DMs, system modeling, visual model, maps) are messed up to a state it's hard to believe they simulate sth real.

 

What I look most forward to is the new enduring conflicts game mode (along many improvements on FMs and DMs) which was - despite it's many bugs and lacks - quite fun to play. But as it is now I don't really don't see any point returning back to it.

 

As far as FM complains go I can assure their FM engine isn't uncapeable. It's how these ressources are utilized ingame which make it seem so bad.

 

But saying that WT is no sim at all (and ultimately that everybody playing WT is no simmer) is just plainly wrong.

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But saying that WT is no sim at all (and ultimately that everybody playing WT is no simmer) is just plainly wrong.
I look at like this, is Call of duty a modern combat simulator or a game? In my view it a game and although successful it's awful IMO.  We all have differing views but personally I think that WT is "trying" to be a sim to appeal to the sim crowd. Its very successful at what it does, that is give instant gratification without having to worry about the finer details. Most people that play WT are not in "sim" mode. 

 

I'm not judging people who play WT at all but I wish it wasn't put in the same genre as BoS, CoD or DSC. It's an MMO.

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Most people that play WT are not in "sim" mode.

That's a different story :) I though we're all reffering to sim battles only because we sure know none of the other modes does compare even as closely to sim flying.

 

The concept was the same as in BoS. Make a flight game as realistic as possible and give it a good playability combined with gameplay simplifications to make it appeal to nearly any player. They only took it a few steps further and messed more things up.

It's really sad to fly the P-51 and P-47 because you know it would be so much more fun if all planes handled that realisticly. Unfortunately such a thing is very unlikely to happen as the last 2 years of development showed.

Edited by Stab/JG26_5tuka

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