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The Future of IL:2: BOS

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The thing is BoS is based on the RoF engine which again wasnt designed to support driveable ground forces. It would require great rework of the game code, masses of new content (maps, code, graphic and sound files) and an extensive testing program. Even with all this effort it could still fail if exeeding the engine's limit.

 

Flight sims are designed for optimal flight simulation unlike games like Arma or Battlefield. Those titles tend to use simplified physics for vehicles and low view ranges enabling them to easily simulate more kinds of vehicles using basic physics.

 

If you want to see the result of incooperating groundbforces into a large scale flight simulator look at the combined arms module for DCS World. It's nothing like tank combat in WT or any title of that kind.

 

Again it took WT over a year of constant development to implement their tanks and they pretty much put all their ressources on it. Its nothing you can easily pull off just because its a nice idea.

Edited by Stab/JG26_5tuka
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Please ,no tanks!

 

This is promising to be a great flight sim series, I hope they will stick to that. I'm hoping for more flyable planes, more expansions: first on the Eastern Front, let's say Kursk, then perhaps move to Italy/ Mediterranean/ Western Front/ Pacific - hopefully all of them at some point.

 

What I definitely don't want is for it to turn into a wargame, where planes are but a weapon option to kill each other. There are other titles to do that.

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Nonetheless, an interesting possibility ( OP )... Why not ?

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Please ,no tanks!

 

This is promising to be a great flight sim series, I hope they will stick to that. I'm hoping for more flyable planes, more expansions: first on the Eastern Front, let's say Kursk, then perhaps move to Italy/ Mediterranean/ Western Front/ Pacific - hopefully all of them at some point.

 

What I definitely don't want is for it to turn into a wargame, where planes are but a weapon option to kill each other. There are other titles to do that.

 

Amen & well said

 

I'm solidly in the "lets concentrate on it as a flight simm" there are few enough really good simms around, DCS, CLOD, ROF are the other ones that spring to mind.

 

BoS is the best out there of the genre IMHO it strikes an excellent balance, the aircraft are challenging (to master properly), the graphics (especially with some small mods) simply jaw dropping especially high altitude. 

 

Why would you want to dilute what has been up until now a concentrated simm formula that has produced brilliant results.

 

How many are still moaning about FMs and bugs (that the Devs fix as time goes on), you want that to be put to one side so we can drive tanks??

 

Please stick to the game core.

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Exactly. That's why a full WW2-simulator is the answer. Tank simmers and FPSer's would come to this game.

 

I get what you are saying.

 

But you can just go and play Aces High or War Thunder for that type of play (maybe not with FPSers).

 

To be honest you are probably posting in the wrong community forums for those type of ideas of gameplay.

 

As others have mentioned, I would much prefer the devs focused on the current path. Eventually(hopefully) expanding into other theatres of operations with more maps and varities of aircraft etc etc.

Edited by beepee

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Tanks without Infantry supporting them does not make to much sense either.

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I think you mean Steel Beasts.

 

for WW2 tank action, check out "Combat Mission".

"Steal Beasts" sounds like a new rustling add-on for GTA V.

Edited by unreasonable

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Those 2 videos were released 3 years ago...I think technology is able to support it by now

The drivable ground vehicles in Cliffs of Dover are the best example of how that project failed to control its scope. The game was already busted and in desperate need of fixing and yet they were working on a feature that wasn't needed and hardly any one uses. And while the Battle of Stalingrad was indeed a ground war, the Battle of Britain was not, making this effort even more ludicrous. Maybe BoS should add a flyable Su-26 stunt plane too.

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I would play the [Edited] outta some tanks in BOS BoM. The reason you dont see anyone playing tanks in Clod is because there were no armor fights in the BoB and the mechanics are terrible in cod anyway.

Tanks could offer a whole lot more people into the mix who enjoy that aspect. The game is beautiful enough to provide so e real immersion for the tankers as well.

Not sure why everyone is so negative Nancy on the issue. There is an entire genre of gamers that would love this and it all means money in the pocket for future development.

I say a large resounding YES to tanks. I'm astounded by the lack of vision by the majority of these forum members.

The thing is BoS is based on the RoF engine which again wasnt designed to support driveable ground forces. It would require great rework of the game code, masses of new content (maps, code, graphic and sound files) and an extensive testing program. Even with all this effort it could still fail if exeeding the engine's limit.
Flight sims are designed for optimal flight simulation unlike games like Arma or Battlefield. Those titles tend to use simplified physics for vehicles and low view ranges enabling them to easily simulate more kinds of vehicles using basic physics.
If you want to see the result of incooperating groundbforces into a large scale flight simulator look at the combined arms module for DCS World. It's nothing like tank combat in WT or any title of that kind.
Again it took WT over a year of constant development to implement their tanks and they pretty much put all their ressources on it. Its nothing you can easily pull off just because its a nice idea.

This proves you have zero.idea what you are taking about. It would not need a "rewrite if the engine" tanks are possible at this very moment. Trust me

I also love how people think the game will somehow get worse, like they will stop working on airplanes altogether lol. Come on guys. They have the core tech ready to go, and I for one would have an incredible time storming an airfield in a t34 whilst the tate is trying to haul the 6th army outta russia!

I know at least 5 people that would buy bos/BoM just to play tanks. Why is this a bad thing again?

Edited by Bearcat
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I would play the [Edited] outta some tanks in BOS BoM. The reason you dont see anyone playing tanks in Clod is because there were no armor fights in the BoB and the mechanics are terrible in cod anyway.

 

Tanks could offer a whole lot more people into the mix who enjoy that aspect. The game is beautiful enough to provide so e real immersion for the tankers as well.

 

Not sure why everyone is so negative Nancy on the issue. There is an entire genre of gamers that would love this and it all means money in the pocket for future development.

 

I say a large resounding YES to tanks. I'm astounded by the lack of vision by the majority of these forum members.

 

This proves you have zero.idea what you are taking about. It would not need a "rewrite if the engine" tanks are possible at this very moment. Trust me

You need to try WT Ground forces in realistic or even simulator mode.....

Edited by Bearcat

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I do play WT tanks in sim and realistic mode. And it is niether. What I want is open world tanks with at least 2 crew members.

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Hooves_McG' timestamp='1435668040' post='269354'] This proves you have zero.idea what you are taking about. It would not need a "rewrite if the engine" tanks are possible at this very moment. Trust me

 

How do you know that? How do we know that you have more than 'zero idea' of what you are talking about?  You talk of proof...but where is yours?

 

Do you think 1C/777 has spare programmers, 3D artists etc sitting around while the others all work on BOS & BOM? 

 

 

I know at least 5 people that would buy bos/BoM just to play tanks. Why is this a bad thing again?

 

 

 

Because further division of an already sparse player base is not what this game needs.

 

Pointing fingers and telling the majority that they suffer for 'lack of vision' because it goes against something YOU personally think is a great idea is not the way to get people excited about it.

 

I'm not against the idea at a later date, but as with many of the 'visionless' majority, I would like to see this thing develop as a successor to the IL2 Air Comabt Sim legacy.

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I do play WT tanks in sim and realistic mode. And it is niether. What I want is open world tanks with at least 2 crew members.

There was a tank sim - Iron front Liberation 44 (arma 2 engine) with multicrew but quickly died. Just because there is not enough of hardcore tank simmers it seams. Also simmers in general, I suppose.

Edited by blackram_

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The problem with ground and air combat sharing the same sim is the size and level of detail for the map. It's designed for air combat, less detailed and large. A ground combat game needs a smaller more detailed map. The two aren't really compatable this way.

 

It's funny that some people think it would be fun to play a ground war game with as few players as you'll ever get online, on a map as big as the one in BoS. The players would never see each other. There would be 4 people driving around blind and slow on the huge map with completely zero chance of seeing the other 2 people somewhere else on the ground.

If you want a boring game where you get to drive a slow tracked vehicle around by yourself, get Farming Simulator.

Edited by SharpeXB
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Tanks would look good in the BoS world but .... you have to have other arms to make a decent tactical game. Modeling AI infantry behavior would be tricky to say the least. Morale and fatigue must be modeled. The timescale of ground engagements is so different.

 

I can see it might work in an open platform where different teams developed different modules (ARMA?), but hard to see how it could work for 1CGS.

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Apart from the model of the tank would it really be that hard to implement? The ballistic model is there, we can drive ac around on the ground already so why not a tank, we have an ai sytem....I think the only real problem would be the huge distances of the map

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The DN engine would be capable of a ground combat game I think. Jason said somewhere it can do giant robots if it wanted to

But an armor game would have to be a completely separate effort. It would need better detailed maps and buildings for the ground action, better infantry animation, more detailed sim level vehicles etc. None of that is compatable with an air combat sim. It would be a hindrance to creating more air action which is already limited by the game engine.

It would have to be a completely separate effort with its own team etc. There's no good way to combine air and ground action in the same sim and have them both at a high level of quality.

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AeroACE' : .I think the only real problem would be the huge distances of the map

 

And the Tanks interior modelling, and the controls, and the the firing and sighting mechanisms, and the multi-crew aspect and functions, and the sound development while in the tank, and the physics of how everything moved mechanically in the motor, and the different damage models when different weapons types hit the tank, and so on and so on.

 

What we have now in the tanks and trucks are a basic model.

 

We have Tanks and other vehicles which are good to look at from the air (and pretty good looking zoomed in), but they are not as highly detailed as you would need them to be if you were wanting them to be playable.

 

Which means, more people, more time, and much more money to implement.

 

EDIT:  What SharpeXB said. :)

Edited by beepee
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Iron front was based on buggy arma 2. The landscape in BOS is plenty for tank combat. And I'm sorry but, "divide the community further"? There are about 12 people online at any given time and that's being generous. Perhaps you aren't looking at this the way I am. I see tanks as another feature that brings folks into the il2 verse. WT has proven it works wit h out infantry models. So there goes that argument. And tanks don't have to start at airbases and travel across the entire map. Armor spawns are easy to place close to the action.

 

Starting with an arma like cockpit is a suitable solution to interiors. "A driving eye slot and a gunsight. With an out the hatch view". A simple damage model for now, and keep the AI we have now. Totally minimAL development time and an entity new way to experience the BoS or BoM or any other conflict. Reading some of you pontificate on why it can't whe it already does is actually entertaining.

 

Besides if YOU don't like tanks no one is forcing you to climb in one. But plenty of folks would LOVE to. Why dont their opinions matter? Tell me you have SO MUCH insight to 1cgs's work schedule that you can promise they dont have the time resources or talent to produce a cool armor experience. You must know something we all dont.

Edited by [TWB]Hooves_McG
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They don't have the resources to produce this armor nonsense and it would be a waste.

Nobody is going to pay $89 for this game and then use the lesser quality armor units instead of the really high quality planes. Nobody. It's a ridiculous idea.

 

Now a completely separate game and a new team and new maps, vehicles etc. That could sell. But it can never be combined with the flight sim game for very obvious reasons.

 

The "future of BoS" is in the air, not on the ground.

Edited by SharpeXB
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Tell me you have SO MUCH insight to 1cgs's work schedule that you can promise they dont have the time resources or talent to produce a cool armor experience. You must know something we all dont.

 

I do not know their work schedule: but what we do know is that, as you said, there are only a few people online and in addition the SP campaign has been quite rightly subjected to severe criticism.  So it is still an open question whether they have the time, resources or talent to provide a cool aviation experience.

 

If they did make playable tanks I expect I would find it entertaining for a day or so, but in my opinion such a move would be a mistake, unless it could be farmed out to a mod team.

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You are wrong, and it's proven by Warthunder. They mix tanks and aircraft and the gameplay is very fun and it works. I woukd love to play armor and lead a take squad to take an airfield on the TWB server. Lots of people that enjoy tanks like I do also like sims like I do. It makes perfect sense to add them together. 1 doesn't affect the other. But im glad you have thier resource information. Can you share that with us?

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Again it's worth to take a look at the Combined Arms module DCS has. It sure has tactical depth but other than that you can't really say that it's a fun simulator for tankers at all.

 

I wouldn't expect 777 to pull off anything majorly different given the small development team and limited founding (sth Eagle Dynamics has to worry about less) even if shifting all focus on tanks. Than add 1.5 years of constant development with long Alpha and Beta testing. That's not the kind of issues people seem to consider when demanding such radical game and devlopment changes.

 

I'm all for combined arms games and think the more the better although I realise BoS, in it's current shape, simply isn't suited for this. IF we are ever going to see massive game code, physics and Multiplayer changes I might believe it to work out well but as for now it's just pure speculation. Even if BoS had the foundation for GF already development would still take long time and eat a lot of ressources from BoM devlopment and BoS bug fixing.

Edited by Stab/JG26_5tuka
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Combat tank? no thx

AA control? no thx

Alien control? no, alien is op

 

IL2 just only flight sim please do not spend your time in vain.

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Such hand wringing over tanks.

 

Jason

 

In a flight sim... :popcorm:

Bear in mind that the OP is talking about planes, tanks and infantry.. basically a MoH,WoT,WT kind of thing all under the DN engine.. and it sounds appealing.. very appealing but based on what I see coming from this team I just do not see it happening any time soon.. if at all...

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Personally I fail to see the appeal of tank games.

basically a MoH,WoT,WT kind of thing all under the DN engine.. and it sounds appealing..

Now a full on ground war game using the Digital Nature engine? With sim tanks, artillery and vehicles modeled to the standards of these aircraft and a more highly detailed map, more numerous and better animated infantry. Sold as a completely different game. Yes that sounds pretty cool. But adding it to the flight sim is too problematic. Edited by SharpeXB
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I just want to be able to kill those bastard on the ground but i can't they jump out of car, run, duck and disappear :/

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Personally I fail to see the appeal of tank games.

Now a full on ground war game using the Digital Nature engine? With sim tanks, artillery and vehicles modeled to the standards of these aircraft and a more highly detailed map, more numerous and better animated infantry. Sold as a completely different game. Yes that sounds pretty cool. But adding it to the flight sim is too problematic.

 

 

In a perfect world that would be the ultimate.. and add in a Naval sim to boot since we are fantasizing.. but I just don't see anythuing like it happening on a more than arcade scale... and for me the appeal is flight sims anyway.. I have CA.. I bought it on sale.. I think I played it maybe 5 times.. I am just a WWII CFS nut.. that is my thing so all the other stuff for me is .. mehh ..

 

I have seen some videos of the tank battles in WT.. and while it looks like a lot of fun.. it does not look very high fidelity to me...

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Tank games doesn't do it for me unless there is a massive ammount infantry to battle along with others tanks. Planetside 2 is the only game where I have enjoyed driving tanks for more than a few minutes. Tanks in other games feel like a powerup that you pick up for a few minutes.

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Buy Graviteam's game for great tank sim or combined arms battle sim

Edited by 150GCT_Pan

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Buy Graviteam's game for great tank sim or combined arms battle sim

 

I will buy it if they change it to include flyable aircraft  :lol:

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Such hand wringing over tanks.

 

 

Good point.

 

Topic unfollowed.

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Iron front was based on buggy arma 2. The landscape in BOS is plenty for tank combat. And I'm sorry but, "divide the community further"? There are about 12 people online at any given time and that's being generous. Perhaps you aren't looking at this the way I am. I see tanks as another feature that brings folks into the il2 verse. WT has proven it works wit h out infantry models. So there goes that argument. And tanks don't have to start at airbases and travel across the entire map. Armor spawns are easy to place close to the action.

 

Starting with an arma like cockpit is a suitable solution to interiors. "A driving eye slot and a gunsight. With an out the hatch view". A simple damage model for now, and keep the AI we have now. Totally minimAL development time and an entity new way to experience the BoS or BoM or any other conflict. Reading some of you pontificate on why it can't whe it already does is actually entertaining.

 

Besides if YOU don't like tanks no one is forcing you to climb in one. But plenty of folks would LOVE to. Why dont their opinions matter? Tell me you have SO MUCH insight to 1cgs's work schedule that you can promise they dont have the time resources or talent to produce a cool armor experience. You must know something we all dont.

ARMA2 is ok and ARMA3 gets constant updates and works great even on my machine.

BTW, why are you heating up a normal discussion? People are just expressing their opinions. I also agree BOS/BOM franchise should stay only as airwar sim. But I would give a chance to express their opinions to ppl who would like to see ground combat....After all...maybe as separate 77 product. Once in a future. Who knows what future brings. Currently both WT and WT GF are very popular games. Much more than "our" ww2 prop sim genre. So from the business perspective..... :)

Edited by blackram_

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I will buy it if they change it to include flyable aircraft  :lol:

lol flying tank

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Such hand wringing over tanks.

 

Jason

It's easy to get excited when tanks look like this in the enginehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=EGwJtUZpAb8&app=desktop

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We've had the ability to drive tanks in our engine for a very long time. It's no surprise and has had no impact on our development schedules. Please don't get worked up over it. I-16 and the next update is in Beta so progress is humming right along.

 

Jason 

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