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Bearcat

Who in this community has coding experience?

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You know... with all this stuff going on and on about the SP campaign in this sim and it's lack of umph... and how great the PWCG is... IIRC Pat Wilson has offered up the code to his campaign generator to anyone whop wants to try to work it into BoS... Now I don't know what is going on behind the scenes and for all I know someone may already be on this... but I am just curious as to who in this community has the skills and the time to actually pull something like this off... ? I know Lupson may since he made that great SME... I know that Uberdemon and Crazy Schmidt did something similar in IL2 as far as mission builders go... I know that Starshoy & Lowengren made it happen in IL2..

 

Why can't that happen here? So I ask... who has the skills.. even if you don't have the time... who knows.. maybe you could put heads together and come up with an IL2CCG.. IL2 Community Campaign Generator.. 

 

As I said.. IDK how far the works are already going on this..  For all I know Jason already has someone on this...  Just because no one is talking does not mean nothing is happening...  but just to pass the time and find out .. Who out here has the skills, the time .. and the will to take on a task like this... ? This kind of speculation surely beats sitting around complaining about it or speculating on where things are not going...

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I'm sure quite a few of us do. (EDIT: BSR is a programmer with 30 years of experience!   :rolleyes:)

 

But, I don't get paid to produce content (ie. it's not my job) and the engine can't support the type of gameplay that I desire... So all and all, there isn't much to even consider committing to that type of personal investment.

 

PWCG is great (and the saving grace of ROF though I do like BCareer as well) but it can't support large scale conflicts either.

Edited by 4./JG26_Adler

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Is there a place where one can look at the code of PWCG? Is it open source?

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I'm sure quite a few of us do. (EDIT: BSR is a programmer with 30 years of experience!   :rolleyes:)

 

I have no interest in making this game more enjoyable for you.

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I do have experience and am planning a PWCG-like addition since last November, even contacted Pat about it . Unfortunately I've never found the time (between new RoF gameplay, attempt to get new job and wife's demand that we find and buy perfect enough flat this spring). Now my queue looks almost empty again, I'm looking to go back to the idea within a month. In meantime, I spent a lot of time thinking how to break it into smaller parts and build from ground up (see below).

I have no skill in making missions, let alone generating them by script, so currently I was thinking of extension to campaign mode we have :( . Parts / stages I have envisioned so far are:

1. Logs extractor. Reads mission log, extracts players kills number by type, mission accomplishment, landing / bail out / wounded status. Updates players personal log and lets him browse his statistics. Make general enough to later add functionality for multiple logs, for AI wingmen / multiple player careers.

 

2. Basic career. Add "current date" and "squadron" fields to player log. Add squadron data format, telling which airfields was squadron occupying at historical dates, and mission types that squadron flew. If pilots log says player is member of XXX Soviet squadron and current date is 1st December, and XXX squadron file says at 1st December it was stationed at Lapino field, flying LAGG-3 in intercept and ground attack missions, the program gives player historical briefing (at that moment about necessity to stop German airbridge) and orders : "Select campaign Chapter 3:Air Bridge, fly intercept mission in LaGG-3 from Lapino airfield. Import log files for debriefing." After completing mission program extracts mission log (point 1), updates pilots log with victories, lost plane etc, and advances date in his log to 2nd December.

3. If thing works, add more squadrons with help of community.

4. Extended career. Add decorations, ranks and promotions for both sides. Add medical leaves after being wounded. Add transfers to different squadrons. Add special events and random missions for succesfull pilots (combat tests of new, experimental FW-190, La-5 or Ju-87 G. Ground attack plane pilots with to many air-to-air kills being forcibly transferred to fighter squadron for propaganda reasons, and having to fly ground attack missions in fighters if player wants a transfer back to his IL-2 or Stuka unit). Send pilot on month of forced R&R after  receiving high decoration, to keep him from dieing while his name is on headlines; this may end campaign prematurely if battle is won/lost during R&R. Add named wingmen to players squadron and keep their scores (after the mission, program extracts the mission logs and chooses which nameless plane was flown by whom). Add option to import new pilots rank and decorations (but not kills) from other player logs (player earned them, his pilot might have eared them prior to battle of Stalingrad. this lets players go for higher decorations as long as they get them in single historical campaign).

5. Add squadrons for Battle of Moscow. Allow pilots that finished BoM to continue in BoS.

6. Either learn to generate missions or find someone who can, and replace the "go fly campaign mission" orders with a real generator.

 

7. Experience points, unlocks and archivmens (sorry, couldn't resist)  :lol:

Edited by Trupobaw
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Great plans Trupobaw! Would be awesome to have something like that in BoS :)

 

Maybe excluding point number seven :lol:

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The point of this thread is .. that at the end of the day we all want the same thing.. I am certain that if we all could manage to arrange a massive GTG where we all could attend we would all have a great time together... A lot of the angst that goes on surrounding this sim just bothers me because at the end of the day this us vs them BS is just manufactured nonsense.. We all want the same thing and i am certain that we would all spend a lot more time just simming if we could whether the restrictions on that are life induced .. as in not enough time in the day or product induced as in nothing tht sufficiently scratches that itch..

 

As a community we need to focus on what we can do and what we have as opposed to what cannot be done and what we do not have... There will always be naysayers and there will always be those who just live and breathe with negativity..  That does not have to be how we roll here.

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I have experience in coding. I've been brainstorming something that'll be more immersive kind of like 1946; a pilot career so to say. I don't know what PWCG is though, never played RoF.

Edited by [Y-29]Silky
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I have no interest in making this game more enjoyable for you.

 

 

Nor I for anybody else.

 

 

Well that is a real suck @ attitude on both your parts. :mellow:

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Nothing wrong with my attitude,  I'm looking forward to whatever the dev team gives us.  

 

[Edited]

Edited by Bearcat

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Nothing wrong with my attitude,  I'm looking forward to whatever the dev team gives us.  

 

[Edited]

 

He doesn't even fly the sim 

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I have experience in coding. I've been brainstorming something that'll be more immersive kind of like 1946; a pilot career so to say. I don't know what PWCG is though, never played RoF.

Wow, that would be just great....

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I don't have coding experience unfortunately. However I can write, make textures, skin a GUI, do backgrounds etc. I also spent a lot of time over the years on concept stuff. If a serious project is on the go I would be a very willing volunteer.

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I don't know what PWCG is though, never played RoF.

RoF has a free demo and PWCG is free although he deserves a donation.

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it doesn't, most people have blocked him :)

 

:cray:

 

:rolleyes:

 

For the record, it certainly does. You may not like that or agree with that and that certainly isn't my problem: I paid for the game and I fly it when I want to.

 

I imagine 777 wanted my money then and I would venture to guess that they want my money now.

 

Get over yourself.

Edited by 4./JG26_Adler
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And yet he seems to think his opinion has some value.

 

it doesn't, most people have blocked him :)

 

 

It does. That gold bar says that it does  so let's just ratchet that back a bit gentlemen.

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That is enough... His opinion matters just as much as yours.. even if you, me and a boatload of other folks disagree with it more than we agree with it.. Please back away from this train of thought that seems to prompt you to dictate what others can or cannot say on this forum. That is not your call to make.

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I have no skill in making missions, let alone generating them by script, so currently I was thinking of extension to campaign mode we have

 

I could help with that (mission blocks and putting them together by script). I started developing a mission parser a while ago. I haven't done much with it lately, as I've mostly spent my time on building missions, but I'll keep working on it. 

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Hello guys,

 

The job to take PWCG to BOS is a very big job, but it is possible and I have been working on this solution for a while. Pat has already done some preliminary work setting up PWCG for the conversion, but he is not the one to finish it. We had someone on board who was a professional programmer, but he seems to have disappeared for whatever reason. This is the usual result of trying to collaborate with random members of the community on projects whether they be models or coding with no pay or very little. We've been fooled several times by folks claiming they can help us only cause a train wreck. Only a select few things have come from the community that we have been able to incorporate or use. PWCG will never be incorporated into our code, but it is a truly awesome piece of 3rd Party ingenuity and work. Pat deserves a lot of credit for it. I can count the truly professional and reliable partners we have had on ROF and BOS over the years on one hand.

 

If a truly professional person had a PASSION for this kind of work (like Pat) and can work unsupervised, but take direction we could bring PWCG over to BOS. But it's a long road ahead even if we find that person. I haven't given up on this, but I'm not going to force it. The Messiah may yet appear.

 

Jason

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Hello guys,

 

The job to take PWCG to BOS is a very big job, but it is possible and I have been working on this solution for a while. Pat has already done some preliminary work setting up PWCG for the conversion, but he is not the one to finish it. We had someone on board who was a professional programmer, but he seems to have disappeared for whatever reason. This is the usual result of trying to collaborate with random members of the community on projects whether they be models or coding with no pay or very little. We've been fooled several times by folks claiming they can help us only cause a train wreck. Only a select few things have come from the community that we have been able to incorporate or use. PWCG will never be incorporated into our code, but it is a truly awesome piece of 3rd Party ingenuity and work. Pat deserves a lot of credit for it. I can count the truly professional and reliable partners we have had on ROF and BOS over the years on one hand.

 

If a truly professional person had a PASSION for this kind of work (like Pat) and can work unsupervised, but take direction we could bring PWCG over to BOS. But it's a long road ahead even if we find that person. I haven't given up on this, but I'm not going to force it. The Messiah may yet appear.

 

Jason

 

 

It is highly appreciated to hear such a frank reply even if it's not exactly what people want to hear.

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It is highly appreciated to hear such a frank reply even if it's not exactly what people want to hear.

I agree wholeheartedly +1

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Sounds like some of what I was asking for in a previous post and it does help clarify just how difficult this enhancement would be to complete.  Not very reassuring, but good to have it straight like this.  

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So now this thread has become extremely relevant, it seems that the pwcg for BOS is our best hope for enhanced sp. If we can't get a credible volunteer to step up, why not pay pat a fee or set it up with donation ware like fsx to do work on the conversion. He might do it for money since he is not interested in BOS, just seems logical since it's his code. I have seen community tools developed for xplane or fsx where you had to make a manditory donation to download the software. That way someone gets compensated for time and may be more inclined to give a serious effort.

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Wow!

 

Well at least we know the devs are open to it. Hopefully now someone will step up...

 

crowdfunding to pay someone ?

Name your price, Pat Wilson!

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-snip-

 

If we can't get a credible volunteer to step up, why not pay pat a fee 

 

-snip-

 

Simple... Pat did it because he wanted to and because his interests and studies lie in WW1 aerial combat... If Pat wanted or expected to be paid for his work it would have started with ROF's PWCG... If Pat wanted to commit to creating a BOS PWCG he probably would have gone further than he did.

 

I don't see why it's his problem.

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I don't see why it's his problem.

 

No one even hinted that it's Pat's problem.  He's just wondering if Pat would be willing to do the work if he was paid.

Edited by BraveSirRobin

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It sounds like the only practical solution is to introduce a Mods-On mode like RoF enjoys, and also move the current campaign configure files and mission templates OUT of the encrypted SCG.gtp file. Make it so that the game recognises extra mission templates that are user created so that we can get some badly needed variety.

 

If the developers were to do this we wouldn't need to pin our hopes on some Captain Awesome to save the day and take care of everything. Dozens of individuals could make a contribution according to their talent and cumulatively start making a difference from day one.

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Simple... Pat did it because he wanted to and because his interests and studies lie in WW1 aerial combat... If Pat wanted or expected to be paid for his work it would have started with ROF's PWCG... If Pat wanted to commit to creating a BOS PWCG he probably would have gone further than he did.

 

I don't see why it's his problem.

I know all that, that's why I suggested money through donation ware. People might do things they don't like for pay...money is a proven incentive. I suggested him as the focus because it's his system, so it seems the most likely to quickly adapt it.

It sounds like the only practical solution is to introduce a Mods-On mode like RoF enjoys, and also move the current campaign configure files and mission templates OUT of the encrypted SCG.gtp file. Make it so that the game recognises extra mission templates that are user created so that we can get some badly needed variety.

 

If the developers were to do this we wouldn't need to pin our hopes on some Captain Awesome to save the day and take care of everything. Dozens of individuals could make a contribution according to their talent and cumulatively start making a difference from day one.

^ Yes, best thing I've heard in these forums to date. That truly would be the way forward.

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Wow!

 

Well at least we know the devs are open to it. Hopefully now someone will step up...

 

crowdfunding to pay someone ?

Name your price, Pat Wilson!

 

I'm open to it. Moscow is not involved.

 

Pat isn't interested in doing it for money. If we paid his normal hourly wage it would be tens of thousands of dollars which is unlikely to be generated even though it seems there is interest. He took donations for his ROF work and amounted to less than one month's mortgage payment. He built it for a challenge and he loves WWI. I'm not going to speak for Pat though. He is willing to help a proper programmer get his feet wet and then hand it off. That's all I can ask of the guy.

 

And this has nothing to do with Mods On or Off. This is simply about harnessing our mission tech and wrapping a standalone GUI around building and tracking those missions that are generated.

 

Jason

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You know... with all this stuff going on and on about the SP campaign in this sim and it's lack of umph... and how great the PWCG is... IIRC Pat Wilson has offered up the code to his campaign generator to anyone whop wants to try to work it into BoS... Now I don't know what is going on behind the scenes and for all I know someone may already be on this... but I am just curious as to who in this community has the skills and the time to actually pull something like this off... ? I know Lupson may since he made that great SME... I know that Uberdemon and Crazy Schmidt did something similar in IL2 as far as mission builders go... I know that Starshoy & Lowengren made it happen in IL2..

 

Why can't that happen here? So I ask... who has the skills.. even if you don't have the time... who knows.. maybe you could put heads together and come up with an IL2CCG.. IL2 Community Campaign Generator.. 

Any hard core flight sim fan will vouch for Falcon 4.0's dynamic campaign engine. If there was any campaign that should be resurrected, its Falcon's campaign. We all know & remember the stir when the code was released. The people you mentioned just may know what I'm talking about.  A campaign engine that is protracted in nature, running every conceivable element on land, sea & air. Nothing is scripted and its never the same.

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Let's hope a programming savant appears.. wish I could help, but it's not my field :(

 

Maybe making it something you have to pay 10 dollars to download or something... you could probably get away with more than that, judging from how much interest there is around the forums but you'd never get enough to pay anyone to do it professionally.. though it would help if someone was already on the fence about doing it.

 

Someone will, sooner or later.

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[Edited]

 

Sigh ... just thinking out loud .....  :)

Edited by Bearcat
DFetracts totally from discussion

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And this has nothing to do with Mods On or Off. This is simply about harnessing our mission tech and wrapping a standalone GUI around building and tracking those missions that are generated.

 

Jason

Thanks for clarifying that. It's a pity that Moscow isn't taking an interest in the framework of a campaign. I had hoped so much that they would.

 

If a third-party program gets off the ground and you do find a code writer, you will certainly need a creative writer too. Please let me know, as you will find me very willing to help.

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[Edited]

Edited by Bearcat
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