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"Blood in the Skies" Event

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Cucumber sandwiches and a cream tea for me.

 

Gin o'clock was about an hour ago.

 

von Tom

Thats after the Kentucky bargain bucket though eh

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  • To II./JG1_Thomas & II./JG1_Baron

Could you check your PMs please and let me know you've seen the messages.

 

Cheers

 

Emil

 

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To SYN

 

I had to leave early - sorry for that.  Despite that, and a nasty 109 that looked at me funny, it was still good fun.  I know lots had lag issues but hopefully that'll be revolved.  A big thumbs up from me and much appreciation for your efforts.

 

Let's do it again.

 

S!

 

von Tom

Edited by von_Tom

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Thats Syn for hosting and thanks everyone for participating!

 

JG5 were the last to land we were all on red lights :D

 

Hope to do more with you all soon 

 

S!

JG5_Emil

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Thank you all. It was great. The lag was pretty awful at times, though....

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Thanks to everyone. ;)

 

I also had pretty bad lag on take off. A bit better after. Maybe targets should be further away from Stalingrad.

 

To the mission builder : please dont have the bombers and fighters take off from the same airfield, or choose an airfield with two runways and seperate spawnings on all the parkings. Its impossible to spawn 12 or more aircraft at the same time on the same parking

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a formal apology to the LW for not showing up, some minor car trouble turned into 4 long hours. i hope i can be on next time :D

 

S!

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Attacking the formation of He111s warping up and down, from left to right was completly insane experience :)

I wasnt even aiming at correct part of the planes, just had 2 He111s "near" the cross of the gunsight and used all of my guns.

 

Shame we couldnt continue the fight with 109s on high altitude at the begin, we had to break and go lower because we couldnt aim at warping planes so there was no point to risk of accidental damage from warping enemies...

 

 

Thx for the organisation & hosting.

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Was skin downloading enabled/disabled?  I'm seeing some custom skins and am wondering if that caused an issue.

 

von Tom

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A big thank you for taking this step forward and organisation, there is clearly wide support for this across many squadrons and a many nationalities. I would have been amazed if it went perfectly the first time and a good learning platform.  I did not realise that skin downloading was possible in BoS MP. They are not small files to download so could be the clue to warping. The ping was a 9 for me so I don't expect problems there, I know in CloD if just one skin is not shared its a nightmare of warp-ovision for the pilot who does not have that skin saved. If Squadrons want their own skin in future I think they need to be shared somehow. Something to be tested as the map can be shared out.

 

One odd thing I saw at about 7km there was a contrail near us that I could not see an aircraft creating it. Also sometimes high contrails that had a point that was more like the top of a letter "T" so was not sure if it was enemy or an artefact.

 

Cheers

Jacko

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This mission was envisioned as a test, and it turned out to be one more than anything else.

 

I think we're on the right track here, and for the next one we should instead of running a full blown mission focus on testing the limits of the game. By that I mean having a large group of bombers flying together with as many fighters as we can place in the near vicinity. Only when the lag is brought down to the minimum should something like this be attempted again. And mind you we had only 8 bombers last night, ideally we'd have 12.

 

Thank you SYN and all others who helped.

 

 

Was skin downloading enabled/disabled?  I'm seeing some custom skins and am wondering if that caused an issue.

 

von Tom

 

There were definitely custom skins used all over the place. If skin DL was on than that, plus non standardized client network settings are primary culprits to blame for the lag fest we had last night. This is speaking from experience in organizing and participating in up to 80 plane missions in the old 1946 game.

 

All bombers except the one you see on the images above used stock winder skins unlocked from the campaign. None of us had any lag on bomber training missions.

 

For future missions skin DL should either be:

  1. Disabled all together
  2. Limited to stock skins only
  3. Limited to stock skins and pre-built skinpack that everyone must have installed and it needs to be loaded onto the server

I say we start from 1 and increase depending what the game can handle.

 

Finding what kind of network setting work best should also be a priority.

Edited by [DBS]TH0R

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I thought there's no such thing as skin download in BoS :huh:

As I know, if you want to see custom skin in MP you must manually download and save it. Thor, what do you exactly mean by 'non standardized client network settings'? Is there anything we can do on our side to prevent warping and lagging?

 

Does anyone have track saved from last night and cares to share it?

Thanks everyone evolved.

Edited by 102nd-YU-shtele

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I was told there is no skin download as well, yet many used their own skins last night. Since I haven't tried controlling the server, I don't know if there is such a thing to disable skins in the first place. Most of my comments come from experience with 1946 version. All I know we had no lag when we trained for the mission and we all used stock skins. TBH there were just us the bombers on these missions but non the less.

 

Same goes for non standardized client network settings. I know I adjusted my upload and download to what my connection is capable, perhaps many didn't even try to mess with those settings - perhaps what I set is whats the cause of the problems and we should either go for maximum or minimum - and maybe none of this matters. But speaking from, again 1946 experience, having as much bandwidth as possible is a must have for these missions. Together with pre-defined skins, or lack of.

 

Anyone remembers netspeed=8000 setting in old IL2:1946? Well for this to work you needed to up that value to something like 40000.

 

 

In short, I think the above are things worth looking into for future missions and I would like to do some proper testing to see what the game engine is capable before starting something like this again. Eliminate all the variables and go from there.

Edited by [DBS]TH0R

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I don't think skins are the issue. If someone does not have your personal skin then they will just see the default skin for that aircraft. From my understanding there is no skin download while you are in game. I see potential for a lot fun in these missions and hope this issue gets sorted fast.

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If someone does not have your personal skin then they will just see the default skin for that aircraft. From my understanding there is no skin download while you are in game.

 

Can we get a confirmation on this please? Else the server first needs to DL the skin from the client, then distribute it to all other clients. That takes up (in this kind of missions critically needed) bandwidth and time, i.e. creates lag.

 

I would also know what options we have to set on the server side to limit the skins and any other unnecessary download.

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Thor, do you have RoF ? This is the same system of skins - you can see only skins what you have in folders. No skin DL in game - this is different system from old IL2 or IL2:CloD. SImply - custom skins dont create any lags and warps. 

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But there must be some transfer of data for the client machine to determine that it is only the default skin that should be seen.  If the server has having to constantly confirm this that may cause an issue.

 

von Tom

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Ok von Tom, have a question: why i havent warps and lags on next server than? There players using custom skins without problems. Yesterday i was flying Wings of Liberty too - without any issues.

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No idea and I've played servers without any issues at all.  But the server may still be checking skin details then confirming to client machines that a non-default skin is used, so use the default skin.  If they're doing that check a lot, then with the numbers of aircraft in close proximity this might be the issue.

 

As some have suggested it could be the AI gunners but from the chat it seemed the lag problems were there before combat.

 

Hopefully someone will find the true answer soon.

 

von Tom

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Ok von Tom, have a question: why i havent warps and lags on next server than? There players using custom skins without problems. Yesterday i was flying Wings of Liberty too - without any issues.

 

Yes I go have ROF, haven't touched it in years though and spent little time with it. All I posted above was experience learned from past such events in an older sim. Thats all. Perhaps few guidelines from that could be taken.

 

How many planes in the same location were on that server? I've seen warping on a much smaller pilot base on our own server.

 

And I know for a fact that a lot of pilots used custom skins last night.

 

 

Having uniform network settings and experimenting with the server controls (which I will do myself soon) is the way to eliminate variables as to reach the optimum this game can at this point offer. Skins draw with a delay as it is, so there is some client - server - client communication going on, no matter how small.

Edited by [DBS]TH0R

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Thor, we are not in dispute. I hope the problem on the server will be removed as soon as possible and we will be able to try again. 

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And I am not disputing. :)

 

I am just recommending we do a massive test with stock skins (not even unlocked ones), mess about with network client settings and see if there is an improvement. If then 40 planes can fly at the same place in the sky - we have solved our problem. And can from there on upgrade with skins and more units.

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Custom skins and skin download is a non-issue.  The DN engine uses a different system from Maddox games.  If you haven't already downloaded a custom skin manually, all you'll see is the stock skin.

 

The problem lies in the netcode.  They need to do big work on it which is why we are limited to 48 players max at the moment.  BoS does require a fairly muscular internet connection as does RoF these days too.

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Thanks for the event everyone, hopefully the lag issue will be resolved and we will see more events in the nearby future.

 

That was my first try flying in an organized MP event... My hand still hurts from the concentration I had to put in keeping with the formation of the experienced DBS bomber pilots  :)  Does anyone have a .trk recording of the mission and can share? Would love to see some of the action in reply mode.

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And I am not disputing. :)

 

I am just recommending we do a massive test with stock skins (not even unlocked ones), mess about with network client settings and see if there is an improvement. If then 40 planes can fly at the same place in the sky - we have solved our problem. And can from there on upgrade with skins and more units.

 

I agree we should do this test asap.

 

It would also be interesting to do the same number but replace the 111 with say a stuka or pe-2 to see if there is any difference in performance as well.

Thanks for the event everyone, hopefully the lag issue will be resolved and we will see more events in the nearby future.

 

That was my first try flying in an organized MP event... My hand still hurts from the concentration I had to put in keeping with the formation of the experienced DBS bomber pilots  :)  Does anyone have a .trk recording of the mission and can share? Would love to see some of the action in reply mode.

 

Yes in General section there is a post with two tracks posted by one of the bomber guys 

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As has been said, the skins can't be the problem since they are client side. No traffic of data between the server and the players when talking about the skins.

 

I will share the mission with the French guys and let see what they encounter.

 

Thanks all for participating.

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Sorry for yesterday , a family problem kept me away from this ...hope to join the next one .

Nerv :unsure:

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I have checked everything server side and there was nothing i could see that was set wrong. I have put the mission up again today (Monday), still passworded so that if you wish you can go on and test a bit...maybe just bombers etc.

 

Skins are set to "default only" to see if that helps.

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As has been said, the skins can't be the problem since they are client side. No traffic of data between the server and the players when talking about the skins.

 

I will share the mission with the French guys and let see what they encounter.

 

Thanks all for participating.

I confirm that skins can't be the problem. There is no skin download. If you don't have the personalised skin, you'll see the default skin. 

 

Haashashin, i'm waiting the mission for testing it.

 

 

Jedder, did you have a vintage mission which were runing yesterday ?

 

Have you check the upload and download settings in the sds ?

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I may or may not have found the issue, try it out again, the startup.cfg may have been limiting clients to 1 mb up and down, its not a setting we have ever changed but I saw the mission reporting up and down at 1000 when normally it is 90000 which we have set for the server, so maybe something changed in the dserver (we had to redo the directory structure after the last update due to an undocumented "feature")

 

But, this would certainly be the cause of lag if everyone had their own settings at 1 up and 1 down, which incidentally you should check after each update as this can get reset to 1/1 and will cause frame rate issues as well as lag for you.

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I confirm that skins can't be the problem. There is no skin download. If you don't have the personalised skin, you'll see the default skin. 

 

 

Looks thatway. For some reason I thought there was a skin download  tick box in the SDS and there is not. What I did wonder though is what happens when someone is using a skin that is unlocked through the campaign that others don't have. These skins are not visible in the folders are they seen as default or are they unpacked by the server from somewhere.

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Jacko, no skins are on our server, the way I understand it is if custom skins are allowed the client queries the server regarding the aircraft it is looking at and what the skin is, if it is a custom skin the server responds with the name it has received from the custom skin wearer client tells you and you then check if you have it, if you do it loads it. hence the slight delay as you see a default skin change to custom skin because there is a limit on the number of custom skins you can see at one time on the screen, I think it is 6 but don't quote me.

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Ok guys the problem was a conflict in the startup.cfg and the mission.sds file limiting upload and download. Issue is resolved and ready for next run. I will let others decide when it will be. For now the mission is running tonite with the same password

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Looks thatway. For some reason I thought there was a skin download  tick box in the SDS and there is not. What I did wonder though is what happens when someone is using a skin that is unlocked through the campaign that others don't have. These skins are not visible in the folders are they seen as default or are they unpacked by the server from somewhere.

Everybody has the unlock skin, but if you don't have unlock it, you can't select it, but every skin is in your game, and you'll see players who used it even if you don't unlock it. Like solo mission provide by 777, skins are package in your game. You can only access to custom skin which are stored in the graphic/skin folder. If you use ungtp, you can access to the game skins.

 

The server has only the stock skin and that's all, we don't need to upload any skins on the server. If a player use a custom skin and want that other see that skin, he has to provide its skin to other players.

 

 

Blackrat, the upload and download settings for BoS are now in the SDS (there are some change compared to Rof since last patch). You can find the old settings in the starup.cfg, but the settings used by the dserver are in the sds, rcon seetings are in the sds too now.

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Blackrat, the upload and download settings for BoS are now in the SDS (there are some change compared to Rof since last patch). You can find the old settings in the starup.cfg, but the settings used by the dserver are in the sds, rcon seetings are in the sds too now.

 

Thanks, we haven't created an SDS automatically yet so probably where that fell through the cracks.

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