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Summer Map

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Sometime between summer and into the fall. I think originally they said Q3 but could be anywhere in there.

 

So far as I know it's both summer and an autumn map that are being developed and released around this time frame. With campaigns to go along with them.

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Sigh, so summer could over by the time we got a summer map? makes no sense

 

Do you want it done now, or do you want it done right?

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I literally threw my hands up when I read this.

It'll be done when it's done, no sooner. I dint see what the big deal is.

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Thirty plus servers running, more or less the same map.  All EMPTY but one , maybe two servers.  same mission , same planes, same map, same winter, and all paid a premium for it. 

 

Come on really? I want the game to succeed but there is very little if any variety.  How many people have the game and every time I look there are 20 or 30 people maybe 40 people playing? 

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They've released more than a handful of WIP-shots of the summer textures just this month. It's clearly coming along fine (and still takes a lot less time to finish than those DCS maps that people seem happy to wait an eternity for)

There's obviously still a ways to go, but my personal hunch is, that they will release the summer versions, when those are done and then continue work on autumn, so you might get to see summer in the sim before the leaves fall.

 

Strange arbitrary reasoning BTW, to expect a summer map to necesarilly be available at the time when it's summer here on the Northern Hemisphere. Does that mean they should hold back the release of the summer map in Australia until December, when it's summer there?

 

In any case: The summer/autumn maps as well as the Velikyie Luki map are extra things we get completely free of charge which were never promised, when we first bought BoS. It honestly seems kinda rude to then complain, that they're not done fast enough.

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It honestly seems kinda rude to then complain, that they're not done fast enough.

 

+1 

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Sigh, so summer could over by the time we got a summer map? make

s no sense

 

Well if we needed to grow the grass that went into the digital map during the summer then I suppose... yes... your schedule makes sense?

 

Honestly it's more than just a paint job. Especially if they do it right. Stalingrad was still a functional industrial city in the summer and early autumn of 1942. Until it was carpet bombed into the ruin that it is in the winter version of the map. So I'm going to assume that its more than a splash of green paint on Stalingrad. It's also making sure the buildings and well suited as well.

 

Thirty plus servers running, more or less the same map.  All EMPTY but one , maybe two servers.  same mission , same planes, same map, same winter, and all paid a premium for it. 

 

Come on really? I want the game to succeed but there is very little if any variety.  How many people have the game and every time I look there are 20 or 30 people maybe 40 people playing? 

 

At least some of this shouldn't be surprising to you. They did an excellent job of communicating the types of planes available before the product was even out of the early test stages and I know for a fact that our UK-1 server (and soon UK-2) has one custom mission running and soon to be two or three. Honestly the mission builder is a bit daunting and I haven't had the time to build some more. But we're working on that... we've only had the mission builder for a little over a month now along with the dedicated server.

 

I think there is some forgetfulness involved when it comes to comparing this with previous products. IL-2 Sturmovik got a slow start... it wasn't until nearly 2 years later when Forgotten Battles came out did multiplayer really take off. And back then we could only host a maximum of 20 players on anything except a really excellent server. I'd say it was probably 2005-2006 where we reached the peak of players and servers and variety in the IL-2 world. That was 3 years after Forgotten Battles and 5 years after the original release. If I remember right... when IL-2 Sturmovik came out originally there were only about 10 planes to start with as well. It grew (and now there are over 120 aircraft/variants).

 

BoS has its problems. I've made light of a few of them for sure. But it has its some really great points too and as far as variety is concerned... this is a beginning. You just can't compete for variety with a 14 year old sim that has been continuously developed by the original devs, a secondary dev, and a community team after that. I knew going in that this would be very limited and specific... but it will grow. And it doesn't happen quickly.

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Thirty plus servers running, more or less the same map.  All EMPTY but one , maybe two servers.  same mission , same planes, same map, same winter, and all paid a premium for it. 

 

Come on really? I want the game to succeed but there is very little if any variety.  How many people have the game and every time I look there are 20 or 30 people maybe 40 people playing? 

So play offline.

Eazy peazy.

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...or play online.

 

If you want to increase the number of players on the servers, you can always start with yourself.

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...or play online.

 

If you want to increase the number of players on the servers, you can always start with yourself.

Not my way, but a true and fair statement.

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Sigh, so summer could over by the time we got a summer map? make

s no sense

Actually, it makes perfect sense.

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Sigh, so summer could over by the time we got a summer map? make

s no sense

So, you wait for the snow to pile up two meters in your backyard before you will fly the Stalingrad map? :-)

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Wow...

:)

 

How is your work on German "radio-mod" going?

I like your Russian one - much more immersive than the stock radio chatter.

:good:

 

(Sry for OT...)

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Sigh, so summer could over by the time we got a summer map? make

s no sense

You make no sense.

 

The summer maps doesnt have to be released in the summer. It wasnt named summer map because of release date.

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Sigh, so summer could over by the time we got a summer map? make

s no sense

Everyone knows you can only release a game map if it is that season in the northern hemisphere.

 

 

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Sigh, so summer could over by the time we got a summer map? make

s no sense

 

 In another thread, I have been answered that the maps will be available at the end of this month.

Will try to find that and direct  there.

But what's now ,? new release  date ?

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AvengerSeawolf, what I read is that the Velikie Luke map that is being done by Zeus is going to be released with the next patch. Still, only winter version though, summer/autumn is to be announced yet.

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:)

 

How is your work on German "radio-mod" going?

I like your Russian one - much more immersive than the stock radio chatter.

:good:

 

(Sry for OT...)

It's ready for testing. I'll see if I can upload it tonight when I get home from work. ;)

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I think there is some forgetfulness involved when it comes to comparing this with previous products. IL-2 Sturmovik got a slow start... it wasn't until nearly 2 years later when Forgotten Battles came out did multiplayer really take off. And back then we could only host a maximum of 20 players on anything except a really excellent server. I'd say it was probably 2005-2006 where we reached the peak of players and servers and variety in the IL-2 world. That was 3 years after Forgotten Battles and 5 years after the original release. If I remember right... when IL-2 Sturmovik came out originally there were only about 10 planes to start with as well. It grew (and now there are over 120 aircraft/variants).

When IL2 came out most people had 56k dial up modems and 500MHz processors with 258M of RAM and a GeForce ti 2xxx video card (if that). I think it's apples to oranges to compare online play today verses 2001 when online was still in it's relatively fledgling state.

 

It could be that FB hit it's online hey day in 2005, but the numbers were still pretty impressive in 2003/4. Compare those numbers (even if they weren't at maximum) to the numbers garnered in IL2: BoS. (EDIT: Hyper Lobby was a big part of the online experience and it's subsequent growth for IL2)

 

BoS has had the luxury of 15 years of online improvement, the creation of another game based on relatively the same engine, and technological improvement of hardware. With every advantage BoS has over IL2 it still has very poor online numbers... very poor.

Edited by Trident_109
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When IL2 came out most people had 56k dial up modems and 500MHz processors with 258M of RAM and a GeForce ti 2xxx video card (if that). I think it's apples to oranges to compare online play today verses 2001 when online was still in it's relatively fledgling state.

 

It could be that FB hit it's online hey day in 2005, but the numbers were still pretty impressive in 2003/4. Compare those numbers (even if they weren't at maximum) to the numbers garnered in IL2: BoS. (EDIT: Hyper Lobby was a big part of the online experience and it's subsequent growth for IL2)

 

BoS has had the luxury of 15 years of online improvement, the creation of another game based on relatively the same engine, and technological improvement of hardware. With every advantage BoS has over IL2 it still has very poor online numbers... very poor.

 

I think you've made some excellent points. I agree pretty much completely. There are some missing community aspects to the multiplayer and I'm not sure what the solution is just yet. Maybe a common chat room would be a good start. Maybe COOP mode is the thing that gets more people flying. Maybe after we learn the mission builder or the mission builder becomes more accessible then maybe we'll see more. Maybe when we get some more variety with seasonal maps and more planes from BoM then things will kick up. I'm not sure what the magic formula is.

 

My time is so much more limited now than it was 10-15 years ago so I've played online once and the rest of the time I play offline mode and I used to spend a lot of time building multiplayer dogfight server scenarios but I haven't had the time to scale the learning curve.

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I think you've made some excellent points. I agree pretty much completely. There are some missing community aspects to the multiplayer and I'm not sure what the solution is just yet. Maybe a common chat room would be a good start. Maybe COOP mode is the thing that gets more people flying. Maybe after we learn the mission builder or the mission builder becomes more accessible then maybe we'll see more. Maybe when we get some more variety with seasonal maps and more planes from BoM then things will kick up. I'm not sure what the magic formula is.

 

My time is so much more limited now than it was 10-15 years ago so I've played online once and the rest of the time I play offline mode and I used to spend a lot of time building multiplayer dogfight server scenarios but I haven't had the time to scale the learning curve.

I do hope there's an improvement. While I'm not enamoured with the offline campaign, I'd love to see the glory days of on-line play come back. I think BoS could excel in this area and be like it was in the old days of IL2/FB. It certainly has the main ingredients to be that good.

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i havent been around the forums/game for about 6 months, its very exciting to know that there is going to be a summer map.

 

what is the official ETA for the summer map??

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This game lacks one big part, easy coops with just couple of friends.

 

ROF has it, I use PWCG to create any mission and then just run it as coop and play with friends. So why is it that one can't play like that with friend those missions generated by campaign in BOS? It's just silly and if it was possible MP would actually take off.

 

Some would play those coops then with time swapped over to open MP, other would use the feature to create interesting campaign for 2 opposing sqns and maybe big scale SEOW events later on. As we have it now, it is maybe possible to do on paper, but one would have to do it like a job, not hobby to make it happen. I simply can't fathom how can great feature from ROF be missing here, like someone wants to kill off the product on purpose (sorry but many of knee jerk decisions look that way starting with unlocks and time compression saga).

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This game lacks one big part, easy coops with just couple of friends.

 

ROF has it, I use PWCG to create any mission and then just run it as coop and play with friends. So why is it that one can't play like that with friend those missions generated by campaign in BOS? It's just silly and if it was possible MP would actually take off.

 

 

Edit! Wall-of-Text Alert! Sorry!  :huh:

 

I do agree strongly with this, and it was one of my first suggestions, but it's not as easy as you'd think.

 

If you open up the campaign missions in the Mission Editor, you'll see that they're actually very complex, with a lot more going on than, say, in most of the missions that I make, for example. [The thing is, because almost everyone saw the campaign missions as something that "has" to be done, they 2x'd (or 16x back in the day) to the unfortunately named "action points" and "exit points". It's a big shame. Most campaign missions are part of a very active alive world, which most people seem to miss. Putting the exact same missions into some sort of historical on-going narrative that motivated players to look at the missions as part of a story, rather than at best "practice" and at worst "chore" -  this was such a missed opportunity. Epic understatement there!]

 

Anyway, the point is that the procedurally generated missions (no idea if that means anything) are a considerable technical achievement. The missions themselves are often great.

 

However, because of the way missions are built, you can't just plonk four mp slots into a campaign mission. The building blocks that each of the missions is composed of are very clever (in terms of activation, conservation of mission resources, concentration on the player, etc), they are very very SP. There are certain in-game triggers and commands that only work in SP and - we think (and there's a pretty active mission-building sub-culture going on over in the ME forum  :cool: ) - some triggers that work well in MP. It's early days, still, but people - there are some great RoF gurus over there - are getting to grips with some of the stuff that's possible.

 

[For me, it's interesting that many things that are an almost impossible bore in the CloD FMB are just routine in BoS. Off the top of my head, I can't think of anything that you can do in CloD that can't be done in the BoS ME - with the exception of sub-missions and some of the super-scripts that Narvvy (? Do I remember his name correctly?) and a grand total of four or five other scripters were coming up with. I remember one boffin telling me by PM he had more than 1500 lines in one radar emulating script he was putting together - if I recall correctly - it might have been many more. There are also some extra bits and bobs you can sit inside CloD missions to aid with mission customisatin, R and R, etc, but these tools have taken - what? 5 years - for people to come up with. And for a non-programmer like me, they might as well be written in Klingon.]

 

Anyway, to come to the point, in campaign missions, all these SP mission elements - and there are lots of them - at the moment - have to be hand-converted into something that will work in MP. Various people are taking elements and converting them - I think we all have our own methods! I'm personally rather proud of having stolen wholesale the pretty runway flares and beacons for my own coops!

 

With any luck, we'll eventually have a library of MP-oriented artillary emplacements, convoys, airfields scrambling, AI groups dogfighting, etc, that you find in most campaign missions that people can just plug into the SP missions. Who knows, perhaps a genius computer boffin will find a way to automatically parse (if that's a boffin word) the .mission file automatically, and - like magic - substitute elements from our MP library for the SP elements! But it'll take time and dedication. All in the teeth of a community that often seems hell-bent on excoriating the game out of - what - simple spite?

Edited by No601_Swallow
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However, because of the way missions are built, you can't just plonk four mp slots into a campaign mission. The building blocks that each of the missions is composed of are very clever (in terms of activation, conservation of mission resources, concentration on the player, etc), they are very very SP. 

 

I really understand that making a semi decent procedural generator for anything is damn tough. However, I often get missions that send me alone in the dark to intercept 5-6 bombers with escort of 4 enemy fighters. You would assume at least one wingman on any intercept mission, it's called intercept mission as you think you know there will be someone to intercept, means going alone makes no sense. So I think they made it way too random to be called clever, I'd like to see some more intelligent boundaries for certain mission types. 

 

But regardless how well mission generator works, I still don't see any reason why player could not say generate mission, but I want 2-4 slots (could be more later on if this works well). I just don't think anything would break these missions, they would only get more interesting if played with human wingman or three of them. Even if limit is just 4 player coop and only AI on other side, it would still be a blast over what we have now.

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I really understand that making a semi decent procedural generator for anything is damn tough. However, I often get missions that send me alone in the dark to intercept 5-6 bombers with escort of 4 enemy fighters. You would assume at least one wingman on any intercept mission, it's called intercept mission as you think you know there will be someone to intercept, means going alone makes no sense. So I think they made it way too random to be called clever, I'd like to see some more intelligent boundaries for certain mission types. 

 

But regardless how well mission generator works, I still don't see any reason why player could not say generate mission, but I want 2-4 slots (could be more later on if this works well). I just don't think anything would break these missions, they would only get more interesting if played with human wingman or three of them. Even if limit is just 4 player coop and only AI on other side, it would still be a blast over what we have now.

 

I suppose that's where you get sort of layers of frustration piling up on top of each other.

 

If you were to take one of those "alone in the dark" missions and open it up in the ME (the last mission that you've played is - if memory serves - stored in the .../data/missions file as _gen.mission, or possibly _gen.msnbin), it'll probably be plastered with stuff that you never even had a chance of seeing. Maybe you're at 4000m at night over thick cloud, and down on the ground various artillary groups are pounding each other, etc, etc. Maybe you're concentrating on navigation so you're not looking around. Maybe the graphics settings make it difficult to spot activity at a distance... I usually fly campaign missions in "normal", so I can turn on and off the HUD icons, partly so I can see more of what's happening in the mission world.

 

But I suppose that's the difference between automatically generated missions and bespoke ones. We as mission builders can channel people to certain locations where we can arrange stuff to happen, stuff that WILL happen, interesting stuff (hopefully!). But the campaign missions (quite apart from the annoying difficulty boosts as your "pilot level" increases) can often seem empty. We as players just miss all the stuff that goes on. Perhaps it's all too far away - the "activity corridor" (or whatever the hell it is) is too broad. Maybe tweaking the thing would get it to spit out fun stuff. Maybe in the end it's just a noble experiment in constructing a Super-QMB, but one that never quite got there.

 

Personally, I think its a worthy addition to the game. But if only there could be a procedurally generated campaign author who could spin it into a story that means something!

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Guys are making coop missions, check them out in the mission making forum. To run a coop, you have to get a free dserver key from the devs then activate and set it up. Once that's done you can run your own mp missions as coop. So the tools are in place to do coop, you just don't have the convenience of clicking a button and having it all set up for you.

 

There are some very talented community members doing work with the editor, so be patient.

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@Swallow - I don't think you understand what I meant. And that is that these missions as we have them now, for better or worse, would be much more fun if we could play them together with 2-4 friends.

 

Look at the Dying Light game, when another players joins someones mission, nothing changes, except the fact there is an extra player in on the map doing whatever he wants to do.

Same thing could make this BOS SP much less boring if your friends could enter and take control over one of your wingman. Mission can remain exactly the same as it would be if they are not there or suddenly disconnect.

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Cyclops, I think did understand, and as I say, it was one of the first "suggestions" that I made on this forum after the game officially launched.

 

But now I know a little bit about how missions in the game work, it's not as simple as just adding another couple of optional player "slots". Certainly the campaign missions would have to be re-done more or less completely (at least the missions themselves - obviously I don't know about the way the missions are generated), and I think the whole structure of missions might have to be changed, together with the mission editor.

 

The ME is really powerful, and the things you can do with it are amazing - possibly with the exception of the DCS FMB, I think it's my favourite FMB of all - BUT it's still easier to see the things it cannot do than the things it can. And easily changing an SP mission into an MP mission is probably the biggest thing it can't do. Sadly. Very sadly, in fact.  :(

 

There's a lot that still needs to be explained about aspects of the ME - some things work fine for SP and should work for MP, but don't, etc, etc. And there's a whole load of features that don't seem to be "turned on" yet. So, I'm hopeful that as maps and aircraft get added with the new theatres, so the ME will see steady improvement and expansion! Let's be optimistic about the future!  :)

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