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There are many people playing WT but in arcade mode. It's an arcade style game dressing itself up as a simulator. It's fun to a point but its no flight simulator IMHO. It's seems as though a lot of folk want mindless hours of arcade gameplay utilising PTW, forgetting about realism history and pretty much everything else in between.  

The majority of players in WT are playing arcade mode, but if BoS had the population of RB mode and SB mode this wouldn't be a thread. Arcade mode is a stepping stone into realistic battles mode, and same with simulator battles mode...War Thunder is a stepping stone into higher fidelity games, no doubt. It's the price, I imagine, that sets a lot of those players away from BoS.

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The majority of players in WT are playing arcade mode, but if BoS had the population of RB mode and SB mode this wouldn't be a thread. Arcade mode is a stepping stone into realistic battles mode, and same with simulator battles mode...War Thunder is a stepping stone into higher fidelity games, no doubt. It's the price, I imagine, that sets a lot of those players away from BoS.

I tend to agree with you but BoS has an arcade mode it's called normal mode. I personally feel that WT is a completely different game from the IL2 series of sim or any other serious flight sims. Its a large arcade battlefield game like WOT and now WOW where folks want a quick fix and rack up as many "kills" as possible in anyway possible. It's clearly a successful format but its one that really doesn't interest me or hold my focus for very long.

 

It's just my humble opinion, but at the end of the day BoS has so much potential and with a community working together instead of trying to tear each other apart we may all one day get the game we want.

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I tend to agree with you but BoS has an arcade mode it's called normal mode. I personally feel that WT is a completely different game from the IL2 series of sim or any other serious flight sims. Its a large arcade battlefield game like WOT and now WOW where folks want a quick fix and rack up as many "kills" as possible in anyway possible. It's clearly a successful format but its one that really doesn't interest me or hold my focus for very long.

 

It's just my humble opinion, but at the end of the day BoS has so much potential and with a community working together instead of trying to tear each other apart we may all one day get the game we want.

Sure, but more players is more players. I hate to read people painting players in such broad strokes all the time...there are many WT players that want to do more than just rack up kills. Sure, everyone wants to be successful and do well in a game, and there's nothing wrong with that...this is a game about aerial combat after all. Having interest in fighters and dogfighting builds bridges to doing other things very easily...I can't even count how many people have joined The Eagle's Nest, hopped on the TWB TeamSpeak, and asked "who wants to go on a fighter sweep?" only to be beckoned to help fly a bomber and join the raid into enemy territory resulting in a sizable formation flying across the front. Those same guys that were searching for a fighter group now want to constantly get another bomber raid going. 

 

The entire TWB group is from War Thunder and they're all extremely objective oriented. 

 

I have a feeling a lot of the assumptions about the current state of BoS MP is from the dogfight/duel servers. People are joining those and branding every single server as the same thing, which is definitely not the case. 

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Sure, but more players is more players. I hate to read people painting players in such broad strokes all the time...there are many WT players that want to do more than just rack up kills. Sure, everyone wants to be successful and do well in a game, and there's nothing wrong with that...this is a game about aerial combat after all. Having interest in fighters and dogfighting builds bridges to doing other things very easily...I can't even count how many people have joined The Eagle's Nest, hopped on the TWB TeamSpeak, and asked "who wants to go on a fighter sweep?" only to be beckoned to help fly a bomber and join the raid into enemy territory resulting in a sizable formation flying across the front. Those same guys that were searching for a fighter group now want to constantly get another bomber raid going. 

 

The entire TWB group is from War Thunder and they're all extremely objective oriented. 

 

I have a feeling a lot of the assumptions about the current state of BoS MP is from the dogfight/duel servers. People are joining those and branding every single server as the same thing, which is definitely not the case. 

I have been on Eagles nest a fair few times and I like what you are doing with the missions and objectives (Well done indeed) but unfortunately for me, I'm on the other side of the pond and its rarely full because of the time difference.I have predominantly be a SP guy but have started going online more and more because there is no campaign. I hope that we at some point have some 3rd party intervention that will change that.  

I was being a bit too generalised about WT but it's really not my cup of tea and from my personal experience its just an arcade fest and not for me. There is no denying how successful it is though. I just hope we see more folks stepping up and getting online in BoS.

Edited by OriginalCustard

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 Stop posting, go to servers, make server stats better :)

 

No thanks. The hobby has died already. Far too much arguing, far too many self-opinionated bottom-orifices running the show, far too many sycophants willing to follow their lead.

 

I'm thinking I should re-install FSX. I could pretend to fly around the sky, clipping through REX generated pretend clouds, over a photographically realistic pretend landscape in a pretend aircraft of my choice, without any silly 'person' telling me whether I'm right or wrong.

 

Sounds good to me.

 

 

No league tables, no pissing contests, just me and the virtual sky.

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No thanks. The hobby has died already. Far too much arguing, far too many self-opinionated bottom-orifices running the show, far too many sycophants willing to follow their lead.

 

I'm thinking I should re-install FSX. I could pretend to fly around the sky, clipping through REX generated pretend clouds, over a photographically realistic pretend landscape in a pretend aircraft of my choice, without any silly 'person' telling me whether I'm right or wrong.

 

Sounds good to me.

 

 

No league tables, no pissing contests, just me and the virtual sky.

Hah, you're referring to the BoS Forum Simulator, not IL2:BoS.

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No thanks. The hobby has died already. Far too much arguing, far too many self-opinionated bottom-orifices running the show, far too many sycophants willing to follow their lead.

 

I'm thinking I should re-install FSX. I could pretend to fly around the sky, clipping through REX generated pretend clouds, over a photographically realistic pretend landscape in a pretend aircraft of my choice, without any silly 'person' telling me whether I'm right or wrong.

 

Sounds good to me.

 

 

No league tables, no pissing contests, just me and the virtual sky.

Dutch i am about to join you . had enough myself .

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I tend to agree with you but BoS has an arcade mode it's called normal mode.

 

 Normal mode just offers engine management  and some flight trimming ( sometimes unwanted I can say), nothing else , and of course by choice the GUI and  map. Plane fly characteristics are same as expert, which you just have to do engine management.

 

 

 

 

 

There are many people playing WT but in arcade mode

 

That's right. people want to have some fun, but not to become virtual pilots.  doing the other way it is fun or entertaining for others though.

There are quite a few  people  doing other servers there  as simulation and realistic modes in the game.which aren't arcade at all.  ( and among them if you search you tube, quite some   play all  sims l;ike BOS WT CliffsODover) I suggest you give it a try in realistic mode.
 

And whenever you login to the game you can join one of those battles  that the server sets, at almost any moment, so there is participation.

 The difference is the  way the game works as rewards and mission accomplish on each session ( no matter the mode)  there is a reward player gets points and gathers up to upgrade aircraft and build more...ect.ect.
 At some point this can spoil some  realism at the other point in makes people go play again and again.. but  isn't that the purpose of a successful game ?

 

 

 

 

I have a feeling a lot of the assumptions about the current state of BoS MP is from the dogfight/duel servers.

 

 You bet that;'s what it is.

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That's right. people want to have some fun, but not to become virtual pilots.
You are right because it is an arcade game but there is no denying it can be fun but it's just not for me.

 

.

 

I suggest you give it a try in realistic mode.
I have and the servers are less full than many other flight sims, plus the FM's and DM's are very questionable on WT.

 

 

 

Normal mode just offers engine management and some flight trimming ( sometimes unwanted I can say), nothing else , and of course by choice the GUI and map. Plane fly characteristics are same as expert, which you just have to do engine management.
I agree but expert mode is more challenging and more realistic than WT.

 

I'm not knocking WT (It can be fun) but I really don't think it's a serious sim.

 

Regard

OC :salute:

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Everything you just described is performed nightly by the regulars and brand new players/1st-timers in The Eagle's Nest server (aside from radars around airfields...those are forced, but the airfields have been moved away from the objectives to negate their efficacy.). There's always at least 6 guys in TeamSpeak using comms and command-structured organization for their flights during the evening. Usually we set out to do a 4-6 man bombing raid on an airfield or objective, but occasionally embark on fighter sweeps.

 

Not directed at you personally, but I'm perplexed at the people describing all current MP experiences as airquake/DF servers when I've made a conscious effort to sculpt the server mission to point everyone towards completing a mission based objective. Us TWB guys are constantly harvesting new people to join the TS server and pair up, group up, or give information on objective based gameplay. I've never seen on the server a lot of the names I see here declaring the non-existence of this stuff, which is annoying to say the least. It seems to me a lot of people are writing this game off based on a tertiary experience they once had on another server...or even worse, another game 20 years ago.

 

Well, don't get me wrong but what I've described is exactly what we do (in our squadron) when we get enough people on the server. It's all possibly, as I said, if you coordinate outside of the game. What I would like to see is the server formally creating the mission package so that people from different squadrons, for example, can join up with a common goal and an idea of what they're doing. I mostly fly on DED Expert nowadays, they have a number of objectives there, but what happens in reality is the following:

 

- there's more than one package attacking the same objective

 

- there are packages attacking targets that were destroyed already

 

- there's a bunch of guys playing air quake

 

- and so on...

 

Doesn't prevent me from having fun, but usually I need to gather enough people to have a proper mission. If there was a pre-made "mission roster" where people would just sign up for a mission that would be excellent.

 

Anyway, I'll join you guys on Eagle's Nest to see how you do things. 

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You are right because it is an arcade game but there is no denying it can be fun but it's just not for me.

 

I have and the servers are less full than many other flight sims, plus the FM's and DM's are very questionable on WT.

 

I agree but expert mode is more challenging and more realistic than WT.

 

I'm not knocking WT (It can be fun) but I really don't think it's a serious sim.

 

Regard

OC :salute:

 

Ah, WT. I've wasted a lot of time in it, because it looks like a sim (but isn't) and allows you to spend hours shooting up suckers in a spectacular way. Fast paced action, etc. But, mind you, what WT is is not a sim, not by a long shot. Consider this:

 

- plane tiering and matching, and pilot tiering and matching, designed to "equalize the playing field" thus creating ridiculous match-ups. Always facing La-5FN in your Bf-109F4, for example. Or Yak-3. Or P-63s :D Endless discussion about what should be matched against what...

 

- game always trying to match the player numbers and skill. 

 

- bombers made of concrete, with laser-guided tail gunners, which you can actually improve by spending money :D

 

- "upgrades" which, again, you can buy

 

- "premium" airplanes, some completely imaginary, to help the flying-challenged get an upper hand in the game

 

- FM and DM are rudimentary compared to BoS, CloD or DCS. Aircraft systems - what aircraft systems :D.

 

- and so on. 

 

Even though BoS offers an extremely "unfair" challenge to VVS pilots (I fly LW side online only occasionally), I'll take historical situation any day over the "gamey" situation that exists in WT. Likewise, I'd be very happy to see a possibility to eliminate "gamey" elements from BoS as well. 

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Well, don't get me wrong but what I've described is exactly what we do (in our squadron) when we get enough people on the server. It's all possibly, as I said, if you coordinate outside of the game. What I would like to see is the server formally creating the mission package so that people from different squadrons, for example, can join up with a common goal and an idea of what they're doing. I mostly fly on DED Expert nowadays, they have a number of objectives there, but what happens in reality is the following:

 

- there's more than one package attacking the same objective

 

- there are packages attacking targets that were destroyed already

 

- there's a bunch of guys playing air quake

 

- and so on...

 

Doesn't prevent me from having fun, but usually I need to gather enough people to have a proper mission. If there was a pre-made "mission roster" where people would just sign up for a mission that would be excellent.

 

Anyway, I'll join you guys on Eagle's Nest to see how you do things. 

 

It really sounds like you want to fly coops. 

 

Before the DServer, we (several of us from my squadron) once a week flew in the DED Expert server, usually flying Jabo missions as if it was a coop. It was great fun. After that some of us would fly supply runs in Heinkels, etc. In a DF server, aside from providing the targets, objectives, giving notifications, etc, - all of which the DED server seems to do, I don't really see what else mission designers can do. They can't control how players use the map.

 

Now we have the ME and the DServer, we are learning the ME and building our own coops. We're - hopefully - going to do a V. Luki campaign when Zeus's map comes out. It's all positive, as we learn what the game can provide and what its limitations are.

 

Hopefully more and more coop-style missions will soon come about for MP.

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The only way to get rid of the 'gameyness' is to fly different. 

 

Some people like the fast action which is why you get the airfield furballs...this is as old as online simming. We fly in formation and perform fighter sweeps or air patrols, how ever you want to describe them. We never get in to the furballs even if it means missing out on the action. It can be frustrating because many of the aircraft are too low and we see we don't engage.

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The only way to get rid of the 'gameyness' is to fly different. 

 

Some people like the fast action which is why you get the airfield furballs...this is as old as online simming. We fly in formation and perform fighter sweeps or air patrols, how ever you want to describe them. We never get in to the furballs even if it means missing out on the action. It can be frustrating because many of the aircraft are too low and we see we don't engage.

This is the type of behavior I promote with the missions I make on the Eagle's Nest. I make it somewhat detrimental to the team to be constantly jumping into the meat-grinder in a fighter...not that it shouldn't always be done, but I nudge and constantly promote the end-user to accomplish mission objectives with notifications and alerts throughout the entire play time on the server. I don't see any of that on the other servers to the same magnitude.

 

A lot of the people complaining about constant furballs in BoS online need to ignore the dogfight/duel servers and go to the historical servers to see what is really happening with this game. 

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This afternoon I intercepted a flight of 6 IL2s escorted by 4 fighters attacking our tanks spearheads in south sector DED Expert. A coop mission in a dogfight server ?!?!  I see it all the time.

 

Shotdown one IL2 then got my engine damaged by fighters then I had to bail out.

 

There is a lot of action if you leave the cover of radar over your base and look for mission objectives.

 

Just try to join when servers are full, log on TS and get a wingman  :ph34r:

Edited by =[Coffin]=Gielow

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Phone/tablet ? What are you talking about you just have to use some imagination and pretend its one of these :unsure:

mig_logbook.jpg

 

 

And this can't considered a "Tablet/GPS" display?

 

Tablet.jpg
 
Event the actual plane heading is showed in digital form...
 
Is not showed waypoints because in MP people takeoff without a "flight plan".  :biggrin:

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I only get 10fps so I can't play it atm, but I have convinced 6 people to purchase it in the meantime :D

 

Needless to say, they fall in love with it.

 

 

.. Most effective tactic is to show them a few of N8's videos is all it takes.

Edited by Silky
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I experienced this from the IL2 angle just yesterday. Took off with an unkown wingman, who flew alongside me perfectly. We met up with 2 other IL2s (unplanned admittedly) and attacked the tanks together.

I was shot down but all together it was a fantastic experience.

Cool!!! Try to use game chat to make people to join BoS official TS and improve your experience. You have high chances of making some friends too. Edited by =[Coffin]=Gielow

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This is true. But I wasn't saying that with IL2 there was a more civilized debate or that there was no moaning. With IL2 there was less discussing about how IL2 compared with other sims.

Moaning was moaning by itself. There was less people moaning about lack of features of other sims or asking to have what other sims had.

How many times I've heard people here asking coop il2 stile, different FMB interface, different DM, online wars, higher number of players, bigger formations, campaign IL2 (or ROF) stile, up to date DX support etc.

Well, yes. We already had that in 2005. It is 2015 now.

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If we get online and fly and make freinds more people will join....if we just slag the whole thing off and pick holes in it then it will become more and more obscure. I am convinced there are many people who want the latter.

 

Cheers

 

Emil

No point going online until online wars or at least generic coops become available. At least for a group of IL2 players. BoS lacks so much content it is not even interesting.

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This isn't directed at you (I agree with what you said) but this community is so self destructive it is beyond belief. Look at the number of venomous posts there are...you would think there is a large number of people who want to see IL2 fail. It was just teh same with 1C & MG in CLOD until they went belly up and now CLOD is lauded as the second coming. TF might be doing a good job but it can not compare to a well financed company which has the resources to pump cash in to it's project. It will be the same for IL2 if it is killed off by the same people.

 

There's a whole bunch of stuff I would like to see changed, I am vocal about some of them and pragmatic about others but more importantly I am spending my time flying and enjoying the sim. I wasted enough years waiting for patches in IL2 Forgotten Battles (everyone forgets ab out some of the horror stories of that sim), then waiting for CLOD/SOW to be released and then waiting for fixes etc. IL2-BOS reminds me of the old days, it is better than 1946 and CLOD imho because it gives me that feeling which CLOD didn't.

 

If we get online and fly and make freinds more people will join....if we just slag the whole thing off and pick holes in it then it will become more and more obscure. I am convinced there are many people who want the latter.

It is just my opinion, but I think the devs didn`t analise why the old IL2 was such a success. Ofcourse, what was in 2000 isn`t now but there are many points that can be copied from IL2 and pasted into BoS and it will work. You mimic IL2 development path with slight modifications, it goes well.

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That's what i liked about Hyperlobby when the original IL2 came out;  You met in the lobby, people could advertise their coop missions ,you selected the mission and ended up on the runway as a group (10+pilots) ! with a defenite goal to kill the oppostion(or bombers/ground targets) but because both sides started simultaniously it forced people to work together to survive and win the mission , the present multiplayer setup while catering to the people with really short attention spans, does nothing to promote cooperative flying .

 

You spawn seperatly fly of to fight some 1 on 1 or 1 on 2 duel ,get killed rince and repeat...............................pretty boring.

 

We need something like hyperlobby to get some squadbased action going and upping the numbers cap on the MP servers could help tremendously with that. (imagine a sever with 100+ people in fighting an ongoing battle for a whole day or a week with moving frontlines ect.........epic)

 

Just my 0.02$

HL-like program may just be the most important part of online flying. HL made it so that everyone interacted with everyone. When me and squad mates waited for a VEF mission to end, we often jumped in and out of generic coops, teamed up with other squads for a 4v4 (8v8) matches. We even took part in other squad`s internal training coops sometimes. And then when we felt like we needed a typical DF, one of us fired up a simple DF server and we were airborne dukeing it up in the air. Everything in a time zone when USA - EU - CIS - Latin guys met up in one place. Everything clicked wonderfully on a regular basis.

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Could it be that todays hectic schedules and lack of time....prevents anything structured like this at least to the high level of participation there once was....  Most people just want to come online...spawn, get a kill, or get killed fly around and log off....and then watch some TV, or take the kids to a soccer match, or a movie, or clean the house......and a million other things.  I mean...could this be an evolving trend based on lifestyles and how we allot time these days?  Commitment to a fixed time...across the board is down....compared to a few years ago.  People like to be flexible and free...without obligations.  Should we blame the games for that?   Perhaps comparing large numbers of online MP players is not indicative of how successful this game is, or isn't...or at least maybe we should not put as much credence in these figures as we do.... 

I could see the point if there were no other mp experiences like that, but there are. In racing particulary, lots of games, lots of options, but the genre lives on and prospers. Some people simply can`t be bothered with waiting if they have everything here and now.

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For my opinion the only way to improve the number of players online, is the competition between virtual squadrons, and the virtual squadrons themself.

 

We need campaigns, tournements with stats ecc. ecc..

 

However we are the old generation, everything is changed everywhere........and now people (the new generation if you prefer) does prefer WoT, WT ecc. ecc..

 

That it.

Edited by 150GCT_Veltro

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It is just my opinion, but I think the devs didn`t analise why the old IL2 was such a success. Ofcourse, what was in 2000 isn`t now but there are many points that can be copied from IL2 and pasted into BoS and it will work. You mimic IL2 development path with slight modifications, it goes well.

 

I could not agree with this statement more but like I said in my post they've basically become our adopted parents, they have their ways (that made ROF a success in their opinion) and are probably reluctant to change.

HL-like program may just be the most important part of online flying. HL made it so that everyone interacted with everyone. When me and squad mates waited for a VEF mission to end, we often jumped in and out of generic coops, teamed up with other squads for a 4v4 (8v8) matches. We even took part in other squad`s internal training coops sometimes. And then when we felt like we needed a typical DF, one of us fired up a simple DF server and we were airborne dukeing it up in the air. Everything in a time zone when USA - EU - CIS - Latin guys met up in one place. Everything clicked wonderfully on a regular basis.

 

Agree even more...that was what made IL2 great for me not the planes or graphics.

For my opinion the only way to improve the number of players online, is the competition between virtual squadrons, and the virtual squadrons themself.

 

We need campaigns, tournements with stats ecc. ecc..

 

However we are the old generation, everything is changed everywhere........and now people (the new generation if you prefer) does prefer WoT, WT ecc. ecc..

 

That it.

 

I have a post in the virtual squadron about doing this. The problem is I am not one of those guys who has the knowledge to make online wars etc, I'm mediocre at best with the FMB and have a limit to my time because of work. I'm also a bit reluctant to run the missions I've built because in my eyes they're not as good as what other people could make.

 

Still I'm going to have a trial run at a co-op fairly soon, unfortunately as I'm a bit impetuous I ripped my finished one apart because I didn't like it :D

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loads of people have checked this out but then log off the chat a few seconds later.

 

It would be nice if everyone would stay logged in (there's no annoying noises or performance hit). If everyone who was online had it running it would be super easy to run small co-ops or squad v squad fights.

 

Emil

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It is just my opinion, but I think the devs didn`t analise why the old IL2 was such a success. Ofcourse, what was in 2000 isn`t now but there are many points that can be copied from IL2 and pasted into BoS and it will work. You mimic IL2 development path with slight modifications, it goes well.
 

 

I agree totally. That's the obvious way to catch the IL2 crowd. If the game was aimed to profit by the IL2 franchise, I think that at the moment has largely failed. As a matter of fact I do not see so many of the IL2 regulars around. 

As far as I see the game has worked well within the ROF community. Funny but it seems that a game named IL2 has become the best complement of Rise fo Flight.

 

Anyway the last word isn't sayd. If the devs will expand the game adding to a ROF based game the IL2 features and design, the situation may change.

Unfortunately the community does not know so much of the vision of the devs. It is  known the immediate future of the game but there are no informations about long term projects.

My opinion is that this lack of informations reduces the interest around the game.

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I agree totally. That's the obvious way to catch the IL2 crowd. If the game was aimed to profit by the IL2 franchise, I think that at the moment has largely failed. As a matter of fact I do not see so many of the IL2 regulars around. 

As far as I see the game has worked well within the ROF community. Funny but it seems that a game named IL2 has become the best complement of Rise fo Flight.

 

Anyway the last word isn't sayd. If the devs will expand the game adding to a ROF based game the IL2 features and design, the situation may change.

Unfortunately the community does not know so much of the vision of the devs. It is  known the immediate future of the game but there are no informations about long term projects.

My opinion is that this lack of informations reduces the interest around the game.

 

 

Yeh I just said that on another forum, it would be nice to have a dev diary talking about future ideas for gameplay and the like. 

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Exactly: players need to dream about the future of this sim and they need to believe that following and supporting this sim they are going to realize that dream. 

Actually they have no dream, just hopes based on their own impressions. They do not know where are the devs targets. 

This is also probably because this sim had a sort of marketing in reverse.

Usually sims are marketed as the cutting edge product. This is not the case of BOS. BOS was presented as an up to date product without excesses, being able to be improved with the time.

The marketing was heavily affected by the necessity of this sim to be opposed to the CLOD failure where community had great promises and the sim failed because of excessive ambition.

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Yes, this should have to be integrated in the BoS launcher, people dislike have two launchers.

 

To launch the launcher is a nonsense. The BoS launcher must be the new HL, 100%.

 

I would rather have the BoS launcher bypase the stock BoS launcher. The alternative BoS launcher shows ping time on the servers better than than ingame server list showing blank ping times for some of the listed servers.

Edited by Static

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I could not agree with this statement more but like I said in my post they've basically become our adopted parents, they have their ways (that made ROF a success in their opinion) and are probably reluctant to change.

 

Agree even more...that was what made IL2 great for me not the planes or graphics.

 

I have a post in the virtual squadron about doing this. The problem is I am not one of those guys who has the knowledge to make online wars etc, I'm mediocre at best with the FMB and have a limit to my time because of work. I'm also a bit reluctant to run the missions I've built because in my eyes they're not as good as what other people could make.

 

Still I'm going to have a trial run at a co-op fairly soon, unfortunately as I'm a bit impetuous I ripped my finished one apart because I didn't like it :D

 

making CO-OP's or DF maps is an effort in trial,error and familiarization, after a while everything will be come second nature , you will know what  plane set matchup's are good, if bases are to close or to far , how to position secondary objectives to make the return flight just as exciting as the primary, you will also get a second nature for timing and radius and how to create incidental encounters is some one chases an adversary to far out of the primary combat zone.

 

when I use to host on HL I would get one of 3 comments after the mission 1. great mission!! 2. that was fun 3. S! thanx for hosting.... you cant make every one happy but %50 of the fun of IL2 for me was making missions :) So I suggest you just strt making them and don't bother your self with what other people might think.

 

S!

Edited by T-oddball

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making CO-OP's or DF maps is an effort in trial,error and familiarization, after a while everything will be come second nature , you will know what  plane set matchup's are good, if bases are to close or to far , how to position secondary objectives to make the return flight just as exciting as the primary, you will also get a second nature for timing and radius and how to create incidental encounters is some one chases an adversary to far out of the primary combat zone.

 

when I use to host on HL I would get one of 3 comments after the mission 1. great mission!! 2. that was fun 3. S! thanx for hosting.... you cant make every one happy but %50 of the fun of IL2 for me was making missions :) So I suggest you just strt making them and don't bother your self with what other people might think.

 

S!

 

Yeh I did run a lot in IL2 especially especially before 1946 came out. It's just when I saw the super complex missions people were making I felt like mine should incorporate the same stuff but actually the old IL2 style co-ops are more than enough and there's no real need for loads of triggers and timers etc. 

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Yeh I did run a lot in IL2 especially especially before 1946 came out. It's just when I saw the super complex missions people were making I felt like mine should incorporate the same stuff but actually the old IL2 style co-ops are more than enough and there's no real need for loads of triggers and timers etc. 

 

a lot of people are just looking for some simple fun :) and CO-OPs are a great stepping stone for the SP crowd to get their feet wet and see if they want to join the full MP crowd.

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For me there are two avenues that need to be developed to see increased numbers of players.

 

The first avenue has been covered pretty well already here: improved lobby so that players can more easily see who is available and organize with them.

 

A second avenue would be to have greater focus on easing players into the game.  There is too much of a gulf between simple arcade flight sims and the full-on realistic experience that many here want to fly.  The problem is that we've probably had years of experience, and most of that was in earlier flight sims that were much simpler, generally because that was all that was possible with the technology and computational power of the time.  Things have gotten more complex over time and we've adapted.  We've had time to adjust to all the new stuff: better FMs, more realistic ground handling, etc.  

 

I really think current gen flight sims need to spent serious development time on providing that bridge as part of the game.

 

There are two simple things that would make this possible.  The first is just a strong focus on tutorials, especially hands-on tutorials.  These need to go beyond the usual startup, takeoff, landing and weapons use tutorials.  There should be full in-game tutorials for basic flight maneuvers, all the way to advanced combat maneuvers.  I shouldn't have to go to YouTube to look at other people's stuff.  It should all be in-game.  I should be able to rapdily repeat the tactic or maneuver being demonstrated (i.e. an instant rewind button) so that I can practice it over and over again.  I should not have to stare at a loading screen for 30 seconds every time I want to repeat something (DCS I'm looking at you).  Practice is where you gain confidence.  Training is a core part of becoming good enough to want to take your skills to the next level so that you continue to learn and have fun.

 

Secondly, there should be a full replay tool, similar to TacView where you can see a full breakdown of how you performed in a mission.  You can scrub a time line to go backwards and forwards.  You can look at what everyone else was doing around you.  You can see where you made a bad move.  AND then you can jump straight back into the game at the moment and try something different.  It should be integrated seamlessly.  You see spot your mistake and then try out something different.  What if I'd gone vertical instead of breaking left when that 109 was on my tail?  This feature would also compliment the advanced training and would allow people to learn at an accelerated pace

 

I'd pay serious money for a flight sim to put features like these in-game and make them an integral part across both single and multi player.  I think it would be a serious game changer.

 

Allow people to be able to know they're getting better at flying and combat.  Give them a roadmap on how to do it.  Let them try and try again with no delays.  Give them feedback.  Allow other players to be trainers that can help train other people as part of coop or multiplayer missions (have a mentoring system).  

 

Then maybe we stand a chance of really beefing up numbers of players overall and getting MP servers chock full.

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I agree totally. That's the obvious way to catch the IL2 crowd. If the game was aimed to profit by the IL2 franchise, I think that at the moment has largely failed. As a matter of fact I do not see so many of the IL2 regulars around. 

As far as I see the game has worked well within the ROF community. Funny but it seems that a game named IL2 has become the best complement of Rise fo Flight.

 

 

Not only that but if people knew that BoS followed old IL2 path, which has been universally acclaimed, they`d fill in the future vision of the game by themselves and give more trust to BoS (that is if they`d forget the CloD misfire). So far BoS is much further away from the old IL2 way it seems, which raises many questions about the future of its mp scene.

 

Other than that there needs to be understanding that the original was in a genius way simple and complicated at the same time. BoS probably places the manpower on developping different pillars of a similar title. That original way is noteworthy though if it works we do not know yet. In many ways the IL2 was as same daunting task to complete in 2000 as BoS is now, yet IL2 succeeded immensely in practically all combatflightsimming aspects.

 

Contrary to what Bearcat said, I think that a minority of MS CFS and LOMAC players stayed out of IL2 world but most of them came in, it was just a question of time.

 

a lot of people are just looking for some simple fun :) and CO-OPs are a great stepping stone for the SP crowd to get their feet wet and see if they want to join the full MP crowd.

Because IL2 started with great sp system. Online coops was like flying sp with human teammates and opponents.

 

Even I did make some coop misssion scenarios to be used in the general HL room and that is saying something.

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