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AvengerSeawolf

This is not right. point system in campaign

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Besides is a war simulator , shooting down planes and completing missions , not a " learn how to land or else" simulator.

In the real war if a pilot cracked up and wrecked their aircraft, according to a book I'm reading right now about the Luftwaffe, it could quite possibly lead to a court martial and end your flying career. Landing your plane is more important than shooting down others. Also landing your plane badly could kill you and also end your career.

Edited by SharpeXB

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In the real war if a pilot cracked up and wrecked their aircraft, according to a book I'm reading right now about the Luftwaffe

 

  THIS IS A GAME , IS NOT REAL LIFE . Sometime people have to realize this and not hoping or expecting or valuing , or thinking   playing as game is real life.

 This "simulartor realistic" maddnes is totally useless in a game.

 If you want the real thing go get a plane and fly it.

 

 But again as I said all this stupid point is nothing than a fiasko.l One can put anyway the auto pilot and finish  take off landings  you name it score the points anyway.

I talk about making the game more profitable for action users and you answer me with what was in real life, who gives a damn about it.

Edited by AvengerSeawolf

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Agreed 100%

 

As for those who complain.. I think it is safe to assume that 777/1C did some market research on the features implemented in this game (unlocks) and knew in advance that some would like it and some would not, i.e.

 

 

They did a poll and less than 8% liked it.

 

The unlock system as it is has been a disaster for everyone Devs and customers alike and the sooner they remove it from online and possibly from QMB the better. I like the idea of winning skins in the campaign but not having to earn equipment.

 

The devs (or 1C?) are being very stubborn and a lot of people feel alienated because of it. Yes there's always going to be the haters out there but I would say this system pushed a lot of people across the line. I can live with it because I can switch it off but if I only had the standard version and was forced to do that terrible campaign I think I would have given up on it, the only positive side is that the terrible campaign is very easy to 'game' in order to win the unlocks...although that kind of flies in the face of it being a 'challenge'.

 

If they get rid of the unlocks and we get a 3rd party historical campaign where aircraft and mods get made available depending on mission or time line I think a lot of people would be quite happy.

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THIS IS A GAME , IS NOT REAL LIFE . Sometime people have to realize this and not hoping or expecting or valuing , or thinking   playing as game is real life.

 This "simulartor realistic" maddnes is totally useless in a game.

Sure it's a game. But it's a "flight simulator" game. As such it focuses on more than just playing air-shooter. If this isn't to your taste there are other flying games which are "arcade" style and focus on just air shooting.

If you stick with BoS maybe spend more time practicing landings than on writing big complaining forum posts. There are plenty of helpful people and tutorials here.

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The reason the game doesn't award you the full score for crashing is simple. If there was only a 15 point penalty for cracking up landings, then people would just fly to the exit point and ditch and collect their score. The long mission has to represent a challenge worthy of the extra points.

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f you stick with BoS maybe spend more time practicing landings than on writing big complaining forum posts

 

 I do land any plane any time in any simulator literally there is nothing to practice in BoS right now concerning landing in the planes I fly... I enjoy mostly  shooting at targets , so I do short missions which in the end are more profitalbe in entertainment time : point ration than losing time to go around and land, while I can be shooting at targets. :dry:
 But  you got this wrong, my point wasn't a "make the game to my measures cause I  can;t land" .. lol , but make a nicer point score for those who are new and do not always well in a bumping rubber ground like the one in the game. ( video with real BF crosswind landing posted already in page 1 .. BTW, the landing   of a Bf 109  in the game  doesn't  have to a lot with reality.( video posted and landing recordings posted).
So 2 things  to be corrected.
1) Landing behavior for the Bf 109

2) Probably a better point system for people who play campaign.
 

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video with real BF crosswind landing posted already in page 1 .. BTW, the landing   of a Bf 109  in the game  doesn't  have to a lot with reality.( video posted and landing recordings posted).

 

You know that pilot flying the real 109 is much better than any of us are, right? So you can't post video examples like that of the landing behaviour and claim it's "broken"

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You know that pilot flying the real 109 is much better than any of us are,

 

That's for sure. you've never flown a real bf 109. But that;s has not got to do with the video I have posted. The video shows a real Bf 109 in REAL LANDING conditions as a reference

 

.

 

As such it focuses on more than just playing air-shooter. If this isn't to your taste there are other flying games

 

 Perhaps I will but that's not my best taste. ( arcades) But what's the point of this proposal ?  One has to enjoy a game the way that you do or else/...... go away ?

 

You  people can really  drive away customers from the 1C games , are you  allowed to  do so ?  DO you represent 1C games or BoS in any way ??

So here is one reason I don't  get a pr-eorder of the BoM.

Edited by AvengerSeawolf

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That's for sure. you've never flown a real bf 109. But that;s has not got to do with the video I have posted. The video shows a real Bf 109 in REAL LANDING conditions as a reference

And I don't imagine you're a real 109 pilot either. Yes that's a great video example. It shows a real pilot who is no doubt an expert in handling that plane and yet he still bounces it pretty good too. As for flight model discussions there's already another section of the forum for those but posting video examples of much better pilots than we all are and showing that they can indeed handle the aircraft in ways we can't doesn't qualify as evidence.

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Perhaps I will but that's not my best taste. ( arcades) But what's the point of this proposal ?  One has to enjoy a game the way that you do or else/...... go away ?

For players who don't want to include takeoff and landing in the missions there's already the short mission option.

If you want the full points for a long mission you have to land well enough not to wreck the aircraft. And I explained above why you get penalized in the game for crash landing. If it was only a 15 point penalty nobody would bother landing well.

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It shows a real pilot who is no doubt an expert in handling that plane and yet he still bounces it pretty good too.

 

 Yes it bounches , Seems like it is in crosswind anyway, and even though it  does not land on 3 point it won't crash nose down or jump like a kangaroo like in the game in similar occasion

 

.

 

in ways we can't doesn't qualify as evidence.

 

 In ways you can't perhaps. And speaking about evidence , what is here  a court or something ?

 

 

 

For players who don't want to include takeoff and landing in the missions there's already the short mission option

 

 That's not what you said before ,  But anyway it is more profitable in time : points ratio not to land  at all., perhaps even not to take off, just shoot the targets and  do the mission.
 

 

 

 

If it was only a 15 point penalty nobody would bother landing well.

 

  None can bother to land  now anyways since autopilot can be used. But are you from the developers to say this ?

 

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 None can bother to land  now anyways since autopilot can be used. But are you from the developers to say this ?

 

 

Yes you can use the autopilot but you only get half the points using it since you're playing on Normal. Honestly the AI Autopilot is a rather silly feature, I don't know why it's there. Doesn't it make you feel like a "girly man" to have the game play itself for you?

 In ways you can't perhaps. And speaking about evidence , what is here  a court or something ?

 

There's a protocol for submitting perceived "errors" in the FM to the Devs, you need some actual data to give them if you want it considered. Just saying "this is too hard so it sucks" isn't considered data

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 But anyway it is more profitable in time : points ratio not to land  at all., perhaps even not to take off, just shoot the targets and  do the mission.

 

 

Actually the best and fastest way to get points is do long mission on expert. Taking off and landing are easy extra points, it's double the score of the short mission. And Expert is double the points of Normal. For a single successful Expert mission you get almost 300 points. Since it takes about 2,000 points to unlock everything for a plane that's about 6 missions. You can unlock a whole plane in a few hours.

 Yes it bounches , Seems like it is in crosswind anyway, and even though it  does not land on 3 point it won't crash nose down or jump like a kangaroo like in the game in similar occasion

Practice and you won't nose over either, even if you bounce just hold the correct attitude until the plane settles. Remember the line the horizon takes on your cockpit before takeoff and keep that same attitude on landing.

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There's a protocol for submitting perceived "errors" in the FM to the Devs,

 

 I do NOT care if it is an error , I just give my opinion based on some facts and that;s all , NOT MY CONCERN  IF THEY FIX IT OR NOT., but I am free to say my opinion , is not a fascist state here , right ?

 

 

 

 

You can unlock a whole plane in a few hours.

 

 In a few days or weeks  considering trying to find  your way to and back :biggrin: , and try to find the enemy dots-planes on the horizon :lol:  and identify which ones to shoot and which not.. :lol:.

Eventually most will fed up with it and not bother again. . :rolleyes:

 

 

 

Doesn't it make you feel like a "girly man" to have the game play itself for you?

 

 Are there still people who try to  justify "how man they are " through a game ??  :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I'll use AI whenever I like to and doesn't make me feel anything at all, SO if I have to take the dog for a walk I will use AI :lol:

Or if I have to  cook diner  then again I will use AI.. :lol:  Or watch a movie , I will again use AI. :lol: or feed the cats , I'll then again use AI. :biggrin:

 

Edited by AvengerSeawolf

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I do NOT care if it is an error , I just give my opinion based on some facts and that;s all , NOT MY CONCERN  IF THEY FIX IT OR NOT., but I am free to say my opinion

See the Forum rules on this subject

18. Claiming that FM is incorrect without the required proof and starting a flame thread based on such claim is prohibited.

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/3-forum-rules-v102/

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In a few days or weeks  considering trying to find  your way to and back :biggrin: , and try to find the enemy dots-planes on the horizon :lol:  and identify which ones to shoot and which not.. :lol:.

It's not that difficult. You can have navigation aids in Expert by pressing "I". Most of your missions can be ground attack where the targets are easy to see and your "O" map will show which are the enemy. You only have to destroy 4 of the trucks or artillery or planes parked by the airfield. Then head back and land. Don't engage targets that aren't your objective. You get more points for finishing the mission successfully than for shooting up random targets. About six missions like that will unlock everything.

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. Claiming that FM is incorrect without the required proof and starting a flame thread based on such claim is prohibited.

 

 I did not claim that FM is incorrect,  but the ground - plane  respond when touching it.  There is a difference to that, don't you think ?  But in anyway video was posted.
For the rest, to my standards, prohibition to anyone who just says his opinion politely  even if it is wrong it is of  fascist origin. Well that's my standards,

 

 

 

 

It's not that difficult. You can have navigation aids in Expert by pressing "I".

 

 WIll try that , thanks for the tip. Even though I have unlocked all planes I fly with, from time to time adventure is good. ;)

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I did not claim that FM is incorrect,  but the ground - plane  respond when touching it.  There is a difference to that, don't you think ?

 

No, that's part of the flight model, and posting a YouTube video doesn't really bolster your argument.

 

 

 

For the rest, to my standards, prohibition to anyone who just says his opinion politely  even if it is wrong it is of  fascist origin. Well that's my standards

 

 

Resorting to this sort of rhetoric and drama is not really helpful for your argument, nor is it encouraged by the forum's ground rules. No one's trying to muzzle you. 

Edited by LukeFF

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No, that's part of the flight model, and posting a YouTube video doesn't really bolster your argument.

 

SO how the ground interferes with the plane is a part of a FM ? based on what logic.?

 

 

 

Resorting to this sort of rhetoric and drama is not really helpful for your argument, nor is it encouraged by the forum's ground rules. No one's trying to muzzle you.

 

 Don't give a  dime about it.

Edited by AvengerSeawolf

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They did a poll and less than 8% liked it.

Don't confuse what I said about doing 'market research' with taking a poll in flight simulation forum..

 

Two very different things IMHO..

 

First and foremost you have to take into account the members of a flight sim forum are a nytch of a nytch group of gamer.. And most have biases.. Where as the market research I am referring to take into account gaming market as a whole and the human nature of gaming.. As in see where things are heading and what make humans tick.

 

Put another way, I am not surprised to hear a poll taking in a flight sim forum showed they did not like unlocks.. Where as gaming as a whole has and is going the other way.. And it does not mater on the type of game, because 'awards' is a 'human nature' thing that is like 'crack' for more than not.. Hence the use of it in most new and proposed games.. Thus, I don't see it going away anytime soon, unless 1C/777 decides to give up on trying to attacked a bigger users (read buyer) base and decides to go that small market nytch route.

Edited by ACEOFACES

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Form this video ( and there are plenty like that in youtube) anyone can understand that at least the distinctive sound of the Bf 109 is wrong in the game.

 

This one thing that really draws my attention in the "Flying Bf 109 G-4 Red 7" video other that the sound is just how much the pilot uses the control stick from around 5:19 to land the 109.  

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Don't confuse what I said about doing 'market research' with taking a poll in flight simulation forum..

 

Two very different things IMHO..

 

First and foremost you have to take into account the members of a flight sim forum are a nytch of a nytch group of gamer.. And most have biases.. Where as the market research I am referring to take into account gaming market as a whole and the human nature of gaming.. As in see where things are heading and what make humans tick.

 

Put another way, I am not surprised to hear a poll taking in a flight sim forum showed they did not like unlocks.. Where as gaming as a whole has and is going the other way.. And it does not mater on the type of game, because 'awards' is a 'human nature' thing that is like 'crack' for more than not.. Hence the use of it in most new and proposed games.. Thus, I don't see it going away anytime soon, unless 1C/777 decides to give up on trying to attacked a bigger users (read buyer) base and decides to go that small market nytch route.

 

Ha ha do you really think they did market research from the average gamer? I doubt many typical gamers decided one day they were going to get BOS and all the 100's of dollars of flight controls needed to fly the sim.

 

There is a niche core of people who buy sims even though many of them don't even fly them all. I would guess they are around 100-200k, I doubt I am unusual in that I've got most of them but don't fly them all. No one wants these ridiculous unlocks forced on them especially in MP. As a community we have a hard enough time as it is to bring new guys in to simming without this madness. 

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Ha ha do you really think they did market research from the average gamer? I doubt many typical gamers decided one day they were going to get BOS and all the 100's of dollars of flight controls needed to fly the sim.

 

There is a niche core of people who buy sims even though many of them don't even fly them all. I would guess they are around 100-200k, I doubt I am unusual in that I've got most of them but don't fly them all. No one wants these ridiculous unlocks forced on them especially in MP. As a community we have a hard enough time as it is to bring new guys in to simming without this madness.

Riiing riiiing!

Hello?

Yeah hang on a minute

 

Hey Emil its for you. 2014 called for you, it wants its forum topic back.

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Don't give a  dime about it.

 

Then don't expect me to care about your issue, either. 

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Then don't expect me to care about your issue, either. 

You don't have to. Never expected anything and I do not have an issue.

The issue may be for other new flight sim players as I recon, that's why I mention.

 Apparently there are people who do not  think only for themselves but for others.

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Ha ha do you really think they did market research from the average gamer?

Average gamer? You may want to re-read what I wrote, because I am pretty sure I made note of human nature.. Which includes everyone not just gamers.. And as I noted, human nature typically likes a reward (heck, nature in general, monkeys, dogs, etc) and the unlock system in games is a form of a reward system.. Which can be addicting to a lot of people. And has done very Very VERY well in a lot of games. Hope that helps!

 

No one wants these ridiculous unlocks forced on them especially in MP.

We will have to agree to disagree on that.

 

But note that on my side of the argument (read supporting proof of what I stated) there are dozens of games out there right now that are doing very well that have a form of reward/unlock system build into the game.

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Does everybody know at this stage that you can get all the unlocks if you buy the Premium version?

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Wish they had called the premium version "The standard Version" and the Standard version the "budget Version" would have avoided countless arguments ;)

 

Cheers Dakpilot

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This is a bit late and off topic, but I only now actually realized there were two tracks in the recording and watched the more successful one as well. I actually appreciate you posting tracks so I thought I could at least provide some feedback, although my views might not be that useful.

 

Anyway, the approach in the other one is much better. You're not coming in quite as low, you have pretty good view of the airfield all the time. You also manage to halt the descent very well just before touchdown, the only problem with the flare is that it happens several meters too high. You fall down and at touchdown you actually have quite a bit of vertical velocity, which causes the bounce. Of course it's never a bad landing when the plane is undamaged so you've got every right to consider that a success.

 

Like I said I appreciate the fact that you posted tracks so I decided to do the same. I'm out of practice with the 109 so I ended up bouncing it, hopefully watching me do it makes anyone else having trouble with it feel better. I don't think there's problems with the physics, though, since the bounce in my landing looks completely reasonable. I'll check out if I can record comparison videos with reasonable effort so that it's perhaps easier to compare to the clips of real 109's.

boingboing109.zip

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Appreciate your constructive input Andy, thanks :happy: helps understand something. Yes I have posted 2 tracks there.

Edited by AvengerSeawolf

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Besides, where I work (and at home), I have security apps & settings that virtually forbid any contact with most gaming servers as they have been documented to 'spring board' their clients-

 

No such thing as a free lunch. Ifs its free- It ain't really free-


Does everybody know at this stage that you can get all the unlocks if you buy the Premium version?

Nope! I didn't know any thing about this....I saw a flyer for a sale on BoS so I made my purchase. I'm content with what I have, glad to support a project in the works....but that's just it- a project in the works....

 

I"m now funding work and receiving less than full compliment of their labor- if you want more of my support you will release the locks. I don't have all of the time in the world-

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Yes you can use the autopilot but you only get half the points using it since you're playing on Normal. Honestly the AI Autopilot is a rather silly feature, I don't know why it's there. Doesn't it make you feel like a "girly man" to have the game play itself for you?

There's a protocol for submitting perceived "errors" in the FM to the Devs, you need some actual data to give them if you want it considered. Just saying "this is too hard so it sucks" isn't considered data

Sharpe...you've missed the entire point of just why alot of us purchase flight sims... its all about the views. There are those that have to multi-task our lives, and its terrific to just press the A key while we sit back with another issue put on our plate.  Viewing BoS from 10 feet away on a 50" monitor is the only way to sit back with a coke & a smoke. Flight sims shouldn't be coded to believe that the user has cleared their schedule to spend 4 hours on your 'game'.....that's a serious short-sightedness on developers and so-called 'market researchers'.....you're not gonna win this argument. I'm 55 years of age, I live in a capitalist country and I know the value of a dollar. I'm old school and I know the meaning of a free lunch... I've been behind the controls. Cut my teeth on Falcon 3.0x and its variants. Falcon 4.0....Various Naval sims....so landing is 2nd nature anymore...doesn't matter what sim I've sat in front of-

Edited by CuMelter

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Watch this folks-  I purchased the standard release. What measures do I take to upgrade to the premium release so I can avoid this argument altogether? I didn't come here to take more classes in sociology/psychology....

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Watch this folks-  I purchased the standard release. What measures do I take to upgrade to the premium release so I can avoid this argument altogether? I didn't come here to take more classes in sociology/psychology....

 

Buy the two premium planes.

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There are those that have to multi-task our lives, and its terrific to just press the A key while we sit back with another issue put on our plate.

So you want to watch a movie, not play a game? Whatever. The feature is there and I'm not advocating to remove it. It's just odd that it's included in "Normal" mode. Hey if you want the game to earn points for you all by itself, why bother. Just get the premium version and click the unlock everything button.

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 Just get the premium version and click the unlock everything button.

I'd be happy to buy the premium version....does that mean an entire premium purchase or do I merely purchase the premium at a lower price to compliment my current standard purchase..? Also, I bought my release thru Steam, so the question applies there as well....or do I purchase directly from IL-2 777 BoS BoM website? Please explain what I need to do as I'm all for supporting this project. 

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I'd be happy to buy the premium version....does that mean an entire premium purchase or do I merely purchase the premium at a lower price to compliment my current standard purchase..? Also, I bought my release thru Steam, so the question applies there as well....or do I purchase directly from IL-2 777 BoS BoM website? Please explain what I need to do as I'm all for supporting this project. 

 I think the best would be to write a PM to the developers, they will be able to find the solution to this and answer your questions.

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I'd be happy to buy the premium version....does that mean an entire premium purchase or do I merely purchase the premium at a lower price to compliment my current standard purchase..? Also, I bought my release thru Steam, so the question applies there as well....or do I purchase directly from IL-2 777 BoS BoM website? Please explain what I need to do as I'm all for supporting this project.

 

I think if you own the Standard version and want to upgrade to Premium you just buy the two premium planes, the FW-190 and La-5. They're on sale now for 50% off.

Then activate the unlocks on your account profile page here.

Edited by SharpeXB

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I think if you own the Standard version and want to upgrade to Premium you just buy the two premium planes, the FW-190 and La-5. They're on sale now for 50% off.

Then activate the unlocks on your account profile page here.

That's sound great. Thanks for holding my hand. 

Edited by CuMelter

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