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He111H-6 in BoS 'talk'


III/JG53Frankyboy
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III/JG53Frankyboy

 

 

The H-6 is announced to be the He111 version in BoS. Lets collect some infos about this plane.

 

-engines at the BoS time should be Jumo211F-2 with 1350PS, giving 365km/h at sealevel and 434km/h at 6000m - with no bombs and half of max fuel

 

-bombload ability:

max takeoff weight 14000kg, 14500kg with rocket assistance

empty weight (with guns) 8860kg

 

it had two bombbays each could be loaded with a ESAC bombmagazine,each able to carry 4x250kg bombs or 16x50kg

It was possible to put one external PVC bombrack below each bombbay (so internal bombload was not useable anymore), loadable with 2000kg max each.

It was possible to use one external PVC and one internal ESAC!

 

-Guns

.A-position front: 1xMG15 or 1xMG-FF, an additonal MG15 was possible

.B-position dorsal:1xMG15, its gunner also controlled a fix MG17 (if!) mounted below the vertical stabilizer firing to the rear

.waist position: 1xMG15 or MG81 on each side

.C-position ventral: 1xMG15 to the rear, 1xMG15 or 1xMG-FF to the front was possible,

 

As default armament in BoS i would expect:

-2xESAC, so 50kg and 250kg bombs are possible

-A:1xMG-FF

B:1xMG15

waist:2xMG15

C:1xMG15 rearward

 

Modifications:

-PVC racks ( able to carry bombs heavier than 250 kg)

-additional MG15 in A

-additional MG15 in C forward

-additional MG-FF in C forward

-MG17 in the tail

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Damn this crate is turtle like slow... will be hard to survive in as practically most of the Soviet fighters (all in game?), even Sturmos can catch it.

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Slipstream2020

Yes but most of the Russian fighters will be lower, where they have better performance.If the bombers are high, with escort fighters then it will not be so easy I think...

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III/JG53Frankyboy

with 2xMG-FF firing forward and 32 SC/SD50 it can be a Hell of low level attack plane. BTW, strafing was not a seldom task real He111 did at the eastern front......with high casualties ,true :(

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Yes but most of the Russian fighters will be lower, where they have better performance.If the bombers are high, with escort fighters then it will not be so easy I think...

Hope to see coordinated games then...

 

From my past experience it was mostly every man for himself unless you fly within a good squad. :)

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=RvE=Windmills

Damn this crate is turtle like slow... will be hard to survive in as practically most of the Soviet fighters (all in game?), even Sturmos can catch it.

 

The 111 is pretty resilient, and versus only a single 20mm cannon with fairly limited ammunition on the primary VVS fighters it'll probably do more than fine.

 

It would have a lot more to fear from running into a lost Il2, but like said it would fly much higher than those most of the time.

Edited by iLOVEwindmills
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That 20mm in the nose could make for some interesting straifing missions. Also makes going head on with the 111 a little less than desirable.

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Lord_Haw-Haw

He he a bunch of fighter pilots, want to try their hand on a bomber? Meat for the grinder! As to escorts, no thanks unless it is a

really good squad, otherwise escorts are more dangerous than enemy fighters! But I am curious what manouvers will be possible in BoS

as compared to what was possible in IL2. :hunter:

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Very much looking forward to the Heinkel and the possibilities of level bombing...i miss the sound of the bombs goeing away chunk-chunk-chunk-chunk with kind regards, Ernst Heinkel Flugzeugwerke.. 

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You forget completely the main task of the HE 111 in Stalingrad: Transport

26.November 1942:

Richthofen assigned air units to bases according to aircraft type, aware that this would reduce the supply and maintenance problems involved in deploying various types of planes from the same airfield.

Richthofen placed all HE 111 units at Morozovskaya under the command of the 55th Bomber Wing, into air transport service!

 

-2 December, Fiebig noted in his dairy that "after yesterdays snowfall, everything is still frozen. We can get HE 111 airborne, but not JU 52s before 1130 hour."

 

-Pickert often marveled at the courage and superb flying skills displayed by the pilots who landed successfully in bad weather, sometimes even in total "whiteouts:" On 29 November, for instance, he jotted in his diary: "In the most dreadfull weather, with a ceiling of only 80 meters, HE 111 supply planes appeared on the scene, a splendid accomplishment."

 

With beginning of operation Winter Storm on 12th December some HE 111 units were used as bombers again.

 

 

On 16th January the transport groups operational rate of planes had fallen to about 20 percent. The fleet possessed 140 JU 52s, but only 42 were operational, 140 HE 111s, of which only 41 were operational, and 29 FW 200 Condors, of which only one was operational.

 

Air transport loses

-The HE 111 groups lost 165 planes

-JU 52 266 planes a third of the Luftwaffes total complement

-JU 86 42 planes

-FW 200 9 planes

-HE 177 5 planes

-JU 290 1 plane

Edited by Gunsmith86
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Yup - it will be interesting to see if the multiplayer mission wizards can come up with a way of adding He 111 transport tasks. Take off from base 1, fly to base 2, land, wait to unload (probably best to not make the wait too long...) then fly back home to complete the mission...

Edited by AndyJWest
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Yup - it will be interesting to see if the multiplayer mission wizards can come up with a way of adding He 111 transport tasks. Take off from base 1, fly to base 2, land, wait to unload (probably best to not make the wait too long...) then fly back home to complete the mission...

Yeah, not all was in releasing the bombs or shooting guns/cannons.

I'd like to do some of those missions, hope to see it modeled in some way in BoS.

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There should be something that counts transport from one place to another for He 111 and Ju 52 transport missions.

It could be detailed with diffrent loadouts like troops, Oil, fuel, food,... or just how many tons you get through.

tons flown to the base count like victorys for the fighter pilot.

This would give us some interesting missions were for example 150 tons have to be flown to an airfield. One side has to defent the transports or fly transport planes. The enamy must attack the transport to prevent the other side from winning.

 

 

Yup - it will be interesting to see if the multiplayer mission wizards can come up with a way of adding He 111 transport tasks. Take off from base 1, fly to base 2, land, wait to unload (probably best to not make the wait too long...) then fly back home to complete the mission...

No need to wait for unloading end flight on the second airbase. Start new flight with wounded soilders,mail and other cargo back to airbase one like in real.

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III/JG53Frankyboy

sure, the possibility to fly cargomissions would be fine.

Not to forgett the 111 flew a lot of airdrop missions too, these airdrop cargocontainers were loaded internaly in the ESACs .

Such a cargocontainer would be a nice default loadout option :)

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You forget completely the main task of the HE 111 in Stalingrad: Transport

 

 

 

As default armament in BoS i would expect:

-2xESAC, so 50kg and 250kg bombs are possible

 

 

 

 

Add:

 

- "Cargo pallet" - parachute containers to re-supply Stalingrad.

- 10 injured (landing and await in runway ~5 minutes (after all is "just a game" :) ) to load then.

 

Sokol1

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.B-position dorsal:1xMG15, its gunner also controlled a fix MG17 (if!) mounted below the vertical stabilizer firing to the rear

 

 

 

 

Is that a known fact? I asked the question on the 1C IL-2 Sturmovik forum about who was responsible for firing the MG in the tail of HE111 & no-one knew the answer.

 

Was there any possible movement in the MG or was it in a fixed position. Any sights, or just pot luck when using it?

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Is that a known fact? I asked the question on the 1C IL-2 Sturmovik forum about who was responsible for firing the MG in the tail of HE111 & no-one knew the answer.

 

Was there any possible movement in the MG or was it in a fixed position. Any sights, or just pot luck when using it?

I think it was moveable, fixed position swivel mount if I recall.

 

This He 111H-3 bomber lumbers majestically behind its squadron mate over the countryside. This aircraft had been equipped with a nose-mounted 20mm MG/FF cannon in place of the lighter MG 15 machine gun. Notice that the nose gun position is slightly offset to the pilot's right in order to give him a better forward view.

 

So whoever manned the forward MG15 apparently.

 

http://crimso.msk.ru/Site/Arts/Art5708.htm

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sure, the possibility to fly cargomissions would be fine.

Not to forgett the 111 flew a lot of airdrop missions too, these airdrop cargocontainers were loaded internaly in the ESACs .

Such a cargocontainer would be a nice default loadout option :)

Good call Franky, like that idea.

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Yup - it will be interesting to see if the multiplayer mission wizards can come up with a way of adding He 111 transport tasks. Take off from base 1, fly to base 2, land, wait to unload (probably best to not make the wait too long...) then fly back home to complete the mission...

 

Pure speculation, but I wouldn't be surprised if something like that is possible. One of the stock missions in RoF is flying behind enemy lines, locating a downed friendly plane, landing close to it then rtb. 

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...

 

Is that a known fact? I asked the question on the 1C IL-2 Sturmovik forum about who was responsible for firing the MG in the tail of HE111 & no-one knew the answer.

 

Was there any possible movement in the MG or was it in a fixed position. Any sights, or just pot luck when using it?

 

 

If my knowledge of German language serves me well,  the rigid MG 17 could be fire via the B=Stand and / or C=Stand.

 

See Page 18 Chapter III Para 3 : " Im Gefecht "

 

 

StarreSChu_zps31c8346a.jpgStarreSChu1_zpsf9d67a1a.jpgStarreSChu1a_zps6ef41500.jpgStarreSChu1b_zpsb7f1b77e.jpg

StarreSChu1c_zps0d9cfddc.jpgStarreSChu1d_zps39699245.jpg

 

StarreSChu1e_zps9deecc27.jpg

 

...

Edited by Rodolphe
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Yup - it will be interesting to see if the multiplayer mission wizards can come up with a way of adding He 111 transport tasks. Take off from base 1, fly to base 2, land, wait to unload (probably best to not make the wait too long...) then fly back home to complete the mission...

 

"Not make the wait too long" part is easy to implement by introducing slow, steady, approaching, unstoppable soviet artillery barrage.....

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sure, the possibility to fly cargomissions would be fine.

Not to forgett the 111 flew a lot of airdrop missions too, these airdrop cargocontainers were loaded internaly in the ESACs .

Such a cargocontainer would be a nice default loadout option :)

 

very good point:

 

Milch placed an initial order of 13.000 250-kg  and 7.000 1.000-kg containers.

 

Also it should be important that they get dropped on the right place marked on ground.

Sixth Armys vehicle and fuel situation was so poor that even recovering air-drop containers had proved difficult, and many lay uncollected for want of transportation.

About 25% of all air-drop containers could not be found.

 

During the seventy-one days and nights between 24 November 1942 and 2 February 1943, the Luftwaffe had carried or dropped to the encircled troops a total of 8.350,7 tons of rations,fuel, and ammunition, or an average of 117,6 tons per day. During the same period, it had evacuated 30.000 wounded soldiers.

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These transport runs should be possible in MP. We can do it the hard way, using complex triggers for individual planes or maybe AnKor can make a nice gfx for it :) . In any case, counters can be used to see how many successful runs were made and based on that trigger a new event ( ie replenish fighters or ammo for ground troops).

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...

 

 

 

If my knowledge of German language serves me well,  the rigid MG 17 could be fire via the B=Stand and / or C=Stand.

 

See Page 18 Chapter III Para 3 : " Im Gefecht "

 

 

StarreSChu_zps31c8346a.jpgStarreSChu1_zpsf9d67a1a.jpgStarreSChu1a_zps6ef41500.jpgStarreSChu1b_zpsb7f1b77e.jpg

StarreSChu1c_zps0d9cfddc.jpgStarreSChu1d_zps39699245.jpg

 

StarreSChu1e_zps9deecc27.jpg

 

...

 

 

Thanks for that - wish my German was as good as it was back in the 80's so could understand it, but at least now I know more about this tail gun.

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Lord_Haw-Haw

very good point:

 

Milch placed an initial order of 13.000 250-kg  and 7.000 1.000-kg containers.

 

Also it should be important that they get dropped on the right place marked on ground.

Sixth Armys vehicle and fuel situation was so poor that even recovering air-drop containers had proved difficult, and many lay uncollected for want of transportation.

About 25% of all air-drop containers could not be found.

 

During the seventy-one days and nights between 24 November 1942 and 2 February 1943, the Luftwaffe had carried or dropped to the encircled troops a total of 8.350,7 tons of rations,fuel, and ammunition, or an average of 117,6 tons per day. During the same period, it had evacuated 30.000 wounded soldiers.

Hmm that was the bright idea of some one who boasted that if he could not supply the sixth army from the air he would be called "Maier"

But I do like the idea of air transports very much as this is something ideal for ADW type of missions!

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  • 1 month later...
VO101Kurfurst

I do wonder though why we are always stuck in sims with the early war He 111 H-6, since by mid/late 1942 the current production version was the better armed and protected H-11 and H-16 models, to which many older models were upgraded. Hopefully later plane releases will include a more up to date version...

 

In the summer of 1942, the H-11, based on the H-3 was introduced. With the H-11, the Luftwaffe had at its disposal a powerful medium bomber with heavier armour and revised defensive armament. The drum-fed 7.92 mm (.312 in) MG 15 was replaced with a belt-fed 13 mm (.51 in) MG 131 in the now fully enclosed dorsal position (B-Stand); the gunner in the latter was now protected with armoured glass. The single MG 15 in the ventral C-Stand or Bola was also replaced, with a belt-fed 7.92 mm (.312 in) MG 81Z with much higher rate of fire. The beam positions originally retained the single MG 15s, but the H-11/R1 replaced these with twin MG 81Z as well; this latter arrangement was standardized in November 1942. The port internal ESAC bomb racks could be removed, and an 835 L (221 US gal) fuel tanks installed in its place.[56] Many H-11s were equipped with a new PVC rack under the fuselage, which carried five 250 kg (550 lb) bombs. Additional armour plating was fitted around crew spaces, some of it on the lower fuselage and could be jettisoned in an emergency. Engines were two 1,000 kW (1,340 hp) Junkers Jumo 211F-2, allowing this variant to carry a 2,000 kg (4,410 lb) payload to a range of 2,340 km (1,450 mi). Heinkel built 230 new aircraft of this type and converted 100 H-3s to H-11s by the summer of 1943.[56]

The third mass production model of the He 111H was the H-16, entering production in late 1942. Armament was as on the H-11, with some differences. The 20 mm MG FF cannon was deleted, as the H-16s were seldom employed on low-level missions, was replaced with a single MG 131 in a flexible installation in the nose (A-Stand). On some aircraft, designated He 111 H-16/R1, the dorsal position was replaced by a Drehlafette DL 131 electrically powered turret, armed with a single MG 131. The two beam and the aft ventral positions were provided with MG 81Zs, as on the H-11. The two 1,000 kW (1,340 hp) Jumo 211 F-2 provided a maximum speed of 434 km/h (270 mph) at 6,000 m (19,690 ft); cruising speed was 390 km/h (242 mph), service ceiling was 8,500 m (27,900 ft).[57]Funkgerät (FuG) radio equipment. FuG 10P, FuG 16, FuBl Z and APZ 6 were fitted for communication and navigation at night, while some aircraft received the FuG 101a radio altimeter. The H-16 retained its eight ESAC internal bomb cells; four bomb cells, as on previous versions could be replaced by a fuel tank to increase range. ETC 2000 racks could be installed over the bomb cell openings for external weapons carriage. Empty weight was 6,900 kg (15,210 lb) and the aircraft weighed 14,000 kg (30,860 lb) fully loaded for take off. German factories built 1,155 H-16s between the end of 1942 and the end of 1943; in addition, 280 H-6s and 35 H-11s were updated to H-16 standard.[57]

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  • 2 months later...

He-111 "A-Stand", nose gun position

 

He-111 "C-Stand", bottom gunner

 

 

Pester me to finish the video on the B-stand!

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  • 3 months later...

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