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Pre-order and early access - discussion

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The only thing I don't like about the RoF business model are the field mods. They should be free like in IL2, they seem a bit excessive. On the other hand how do they work online? Do servers have a setting mods on/off? Can servers restrict number availeable for each loadout like in Il2? Otherwise it's (a bit) pay to win isn't it.

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Hello guys,

 

 

           I wanted to pre-order the Premium Edition a couple of days ago, and due to the fact that i was about 6$ short on my card, from buying it..., i didn't think twice at the moment and pre-ordered the Standard Edition instead! Now i have the rest of the money that i needed (for Premium) before pre-ordering Standard Edition, but as i've said, i've already pre-ordered the Standard Edition and i was wondering if i could have a chance to turn the Standard Edition into a Premium edition just by paying the rest of the money needed, or if i could recall the pre-order and get my money back, in order to buy the Premium edition, as I inteded in the first place!

 

I must say that i didn't have time to activate the pre-ordered Standard Edition, so it's still untouched!

 

So if is there any possibility to turn the Standard Edition into a Premum Edition, or to get my money back with the condition of buying the Premum one, i'd be a very happy customer!

 

 

Thank you very much for any suggestions and help, and i apologize for the problems created!

 

 

Have a good day!

Edited by MaverickF22

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Maverick send a Pm to Zak, did the same thing and sorted it out.

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these gameplay-influencing exclusive DLCs (founders-only aircrafts/field mods) are marketing stunts I really hate, and are even worse in a flight sim.

 

some exclusive skins or free field mods would have been enough..

 

makes you wonder how far is 777 willing to go in order to secure some extra cash..

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makes you wonder how far is 777 willing to go in order to secure some extra cash..

 

 

 Or doesn't bother me, nobody is forced to buy, and what money they make helps development.

 

In ROF i brought the planes, didn't bother with the little mods, wasn't a problem.

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Yep, in rof i bought all planes. Even the bombers and the entente planes. Some of them havent ever been flown. I am not a collector type IRL, but with ROF i became addicted with collecting everything for some reason. Guess it wont be diffrent with BOS.

 

Winger

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I'm surprised at the reactions here, and that folks seem to have forgotten about the early access to a model of IL-2 that no-one but founders will have for who knows how long. Are a pair of wing pods going to make more, less, or the same difference as a rear mounted gun + gunner position? I didn't see anyone question this, at all.

As far as I know, the gifted gun position field mod IL2 wasn't presented as an exclusivity for founders. It was never said other players wouldn't have access to it (by unlocking or purchasing it).

I would have no problems with the Bf109-F4/R7 version being gifted to founders, if non-founders could have access to it (by purchasing it, or even unlocking it, and even if I don't support the unlocking feature)

Again, the problem isn't the gift but the exclusive access of a player group (the founders) to a plane version that was historically used. If non-founders will have a non-gifted way to access these versions, then no problems at all.

 

And for other posters, please don't try to push this issue on the morality field, it has nothing to do there. Someone may gift others and still disagree with exclusive access to historically used plane versions.

  • Upvote 3

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Maverick send a Pm to Zak, did the same thing and sorted it out.

Wow, brilliant...!

 

Thank you very much "Uther" and "Furbs" for the replies..., and i'd also like to thank the producers of this masterpiece new flight simulator, along with 777 studios!

 

I'll contact Zak right away. ;)

 

 

A great day to everyone!

Edited by MaverickF22

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I'll contact Zak right away. ;)

Sure thing :)

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makes you wonder how far is 777 willing to go in order to secure some extra cash..

Doesn't make me wonder at all. 777 and 1C are businesses, of course it's in their interest to motivate people to preorder.

 

As long as they keep the content historical and their prices affordable (not cheap, this is a niche genre, Things are never gonna come cheap) I have no problems.  

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Oh man my devil horns just popped out of my skull and my evil laugh just ensued. I just imagined turning Yak's into confetti with my gun pods! :biggrin:  :yahoo:

 

Yeah sure I'll be a little slower but I will shred you!

Edited by Erg./JG54_SPEKTRE

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The only thing I don't like about the RoF business model are the field mods. They should be free like in IL2, they seem a bit excessive. On the other hand how do they work online? Do servers have a setting mods on/off? Can servers restrict number availeable for each loadout like in Il2? Otherwise it's (a bit) pay to win isn't it.

As far as ROF goes, there are following MP server settings:
Firstly Cooperative or Dogfight;
Next the typical settings:
-Internet access (makes it possible to only play intranet);
-Global statistics (most severs organise their own stats);
-Spectator mode;
-Kill notifications;
-Return friendly fire;
-Finish flight only landed;
-Lock Skins/Fuel/Load outs/Weapon mods;
Next server mission settings going from Expert to standard and customised.
On top of all that the mission editor gives lots of possibilities, probably only limited by one's imagination ...
E.g all kind of triggers may make other plane sets become available on the airfields.
Which brings us to the possibility of reservicing/rearming/repair returning planes ... which never really got implemented: a big sore if you ask me - so one has to end flight after landing and has to line up for the available planes.
 
It is also rather straight forward to open you own server, is it only occasionaly  for an evening with friends or for extended periods.
In ROF everybody is able to host either out of the a running game: select Multiplayer and on the bottom line you have the cage "create server".
But firstly in order to reach the master server you need to activate on your router/modem the ports mentioned on the right tab, under "network" of the settings interface (activated by shortcut for the default settings.exe which opend the game).
If you host directly through an active game you'll end up on your server in the mission you selected to run on setup.
Once that game is running you may even open the editor for changing that mission on the fly.
Or you can activate the Dserver.exe and make it open a configured *.sds file which will contact the master server and start running the missions you integrated in that sds-file.
That .sds file also needs the account info: email and password.
Every game contains a default .sds file in it game folder that you may copy for farther configuration and completion of the mentioned server-options and -settings.
One may make a number of different .sds files to chose from following the occasion.
How many players your server will be able to take depends on your available upload speed, used to be 4 player/Mbps but that may now well have come down with recent changes.
You may password your server, even only run it on your local intranet as already mentioned.
If you want to run a Dserver you probable will be able to obtain a free BOS account through Han, of course that account will only be good to run a Dserver.
We dont know yet if we will be able to run our own server in an early stage yet ...sure hope so.
 
So what is keeping you from downloading ROF and giving it a try, its for free with 2 flyables available!
You want a talk through text me and will set up a TS meet.
May be see each other in the sky
Edited by West

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Doesn't make me wonder at all. 777 and 1C are businesses, of course it's in their interest to motivate people to preorder.

For 777 Studios don't need to motivate people because they get new customer from 1C and the Knowhow from 1C,too. That is businesses.

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I am sure I will have a play with the gun pods, Thanks Zak :) Maybe an add on  discount scheme for founders might have been a bit less "controversial" :)

Edited by DD_Crash
  • Upvote 1

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 Or doesn't bother me, nobody is forced to buy, and what money they make helps development.

 

In ROF i brought the planes, didn't bother with the little mods, wasn't a problem.

A+
You can't fault any business model that aims for some profit now, can you, that is if you want to play this game in the long run.
If 1c/777 does not turn a profit this community has no future at all and we certainly do not want that.
So we do want them to be successful, is why we founded to start with.
Free to play games that make one grind, grind and then some more grind do not have any appeal to me or I would not be here.
Bos is as straight forward as they can come an I will buy every plane they turn out with all the moods like I did for ROF.
Of course everybody is entitle to his own opinion and I am just plain lucky enough to not have to turn over every nickel twice before setting it free ...

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Hello guys,

 

 

           I wanted to pre-order the Premium Edition a couple of days ago, and due to the fact that i was about 6$ short on my card, from buying it..., i didn't think twice at the moment and pre-ordered the Standard Edition instead! Now i have the rest of the money that i needed (for Premium) before pre-ordering Standard Edition, but as i've said, i've already pre-ordered the Standard Edition and i was wondering if i could have a chance to turn the Standard Edition into a Premium edition just by paying the rest of the money needed, or if i could recall the pre-order and get my money back, in order to buy the Premium edition, as I inteded in the first place!

 

I must say that i didn't have time to activate the pre-ordered Standard Edition, so it's still untouched!

 

So if is there any possibility to turn the Standard Edition into a Premum Edition, or to get my money back with the condition of buying the Premum one, i'd be a very happy customer!

 

 

Thank you very much for any suggestions and help, and i apologize for the problems created!

 

 

Have a good day!

Be good fellow and gift your standard edition and purchase the premium.

Oh man my devil horns just popped out of my skull and my evil laugh just ensued. I just imagined turning Yak's into confetti with my gun pods! :biggrin:  :yahoo:

 

Yeah sure I'll be a little slower but I will shred you!

you wont be able to turn with me to shred me! I will out turn your pod carrying ass and shoot it down in flames!!! :salute:

 

Also I think the pre-order continue into October makes me believe a November release?

Edited by 71stMastiff

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Be good fellow and gift your standard edition and purchase the premium.

you wont be able to turn with me to shred me! I will out turn your pod carrying ass and shoot it down in flames!!! :salute:

 

Also I think the pre-order continue into October makes me believe a November release?

"The pre-order program as described on the official site will continue on in October until the autumn early access period begins" and autumn last until Dec 21st.

Edited by 71stMastiff

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Be good fellow and gift your standard edition and purchase the premium.

If i had a bit more money right now, sure thing i would, that way i could also fund 1C and 777 a little more for their promising product!

Edited by MaverickF22

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Yup, this is why 20mm gunpods have both advantages and disadvantages.

BTW the similar weapon mod that will be available in the game by unlocking is R1 (15mm).

Anyway what I want you to pay attention to is that it's a gift for you, a symbol of sincere gratitude for your support. It's surprising to see that you speak as if you want to refuse it.

I sometimes despair of this community. I really do.

 

From my perspective, I really appreciate this gesture and don't see it as unfair or game-breaking in the slightest. All of the wailing and gnashing of teeth in this thread feels very kneejerk and poorly thought through.

 

Regardless, I'm extremely appreciative and grateful for the gesture. Thanks, guys!

  • Upvote 2

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It's posts like the above that make me despair of this community. The debate against has been presented calmly and with the reasoning laid out about why we think it's not a great idea in the long run for the community as a whole. You can disagree with the reasoning that's been presented but to start saying that we're wailing and gnashing our teeth and reacting in a kneejerk manner is just silly.

  • Upvote 3

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It's posts like the above that make me despair of this community. The debate against has been presented calmly and with the reasoning laid out about why we think it's not a great idea in the long run for the community as a whole. You can disagree with the reasoning that's been presented but to start saying that we're wailing and gnashing our teeth and reacting in a kneejerk manner is just silly.

I respectfully disagree.

 

People talking about how this is a deal breaker and they won't buy the game now or that the game is now pay to win are kneejerk over reactions.

 

No one ever imbalanced RoF because they bought an additional gun mod, but here - a nice gesture from the developers turns into a monstrous "OMG! The sky is falling" scenario.

 

I stand by my original assessment.

Edited by Pizzicato

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I respectfully disagree.

 

People talking about how this is a deal breaker and they won't buy the game now or that the game is now pay to win are kneejerk over reactions.

 

No one ever imbalanced RoF because they bought an additional gun mod, but here - a nice gesture from the developers turns into a monstrous "OMG! The sky is falling" scenario.

 

I stand by my original assessment.

+1 I cannot agree more. Like ive mentioned before. Just go, install ROF and try out the gunmods. They all come with disadvantages. And i for my part appreciate the gesture from the devs really much. And from 15mm to 20 is only 5 mm:) Heck the 15mm might even be the better choice due to the reduced weight.

 

Keep it up devs. Your decisions are good like they are.

 

Winger

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yes in RoF your atleast able to buy any peace of equipment avilable in game, with this gift thats not the case, the way its explained its only for founders to have it and no one els is able to get it ever thats the problem, its not same as it is the case with rear gun unlock for il2 what is also gift, and able to be unlock later in game for all

 

and again its not the type of weapon thats the problem, its not being able to have this peace of historical weapon for that airplane at all, unles you had luck to know about the project in its making days

Edited by Yaklover
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Let's just avoid phrases like 'wailing and gnashing' and 'knee jerk reaction'.

They'll just irritate other members.

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+1 I cannot agree more. Like ive mentioned before. Just go, install ROF and try out the gunmods. They all come with disadvantages. And i for my part appreciate the gesture from the devs really much. And from 15mm to 20 is only 5 mm:) Heck the 15mm might even be the better choice due to the reduced weight.

 

Keep it up devs. Your decisions are good like they are.

 

Winger

 

Just because it has disadvantages means that it's alright that it's forever exclusive to founders?

 

There's no logic in that. In that same right you could cut out any kind of external stores or other optional equipment for aircraft and say it doesn't 'matter'. It's completely beside the point here.

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People talking about how this is a deal breaker and they won't buy the game now or that the game is now pay to win are kneejerk over reactions.

 

No one ever imbalanced RoF because they bought an additional gun mod, but here - a nice gesture from the developers turns into a monstrous "OMG! The sky is falling" scenario.

 

Virtually one is saying it's a deal breaker / won't buy the game / that it's pay to win / sky is falling scenario - you're just making all those points up to suit your argument.

 

Nobody is also saying that it's unbalancing thing as everybody knows there's advantages / disadvantages to the gunpods so again an irrelevant point. Also the additional gun mods in ROF *could* be bought by everybody if they wanted it. Here it's a founders only piece of kit. And while a nice gesture it's a bit of a slippery slope in my opinion.

 

All we're saying is that it's a historical loadout that, for some reason, is going to only be available to a select few and that we don't think that fits in with a sim type game. Everybody should have the potential to play the same game in my opinion. The gunpods while having disadvantages also have advantages e.g. if you're in a F4 going up against Lagg-3s, IL-2s, or Pe2s you're still going to totally outclass them even with the gunpods and benefit from the extra firepower. So it's entirely reasonable that some players would like to try it out some day but they're locked out from it for good as maybe they didn't have the money at the time, wanted to wait for reviews, never heard of the game before, etc. In the grand scheme of things it's not a massive deal - I just don't see why it has to be an exclusive piece of kit.

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I'm extremely appreciative and grateful for the gesture. Thanks, guys!

+1

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Much as I am happy to take this as a free thank you for pre ordering, I think it will be a shame if this gift will be forever unavailable to people who come late to the game.The ability to buy it later in game should be considered IMO.

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Much as I am happy to take this as a free thank you for pre ordering, I think it will be a shame if this gift will be forever unavailable to people who come late to the game.The ability to buy it later in game should be considered IMO.

 

+1, but without the 'shame' ;)

 

MAC

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Virtually one is saying it's a deal breaker / won't buy the game / that it's pay to win / sky is falling scenario - you're just making all those points up to suit your argument.

"Virtually no one" is not the same as "no one". I'm typing in my phone in the gym and can't search the thread, but all of those comments exist (in most cases verbatim).

 

It may have only been a vocal minority that said them, but they're there. The suggestion that I'm making up quotes to suit my argument is at best mistaken.

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You're attributing one comment from one person (Yaklover where he said it was potentially a deal-breaker to him) to the rational arguments made by everybody else. That's just illogical. Nobody said they won't buy the game, nobody said it's pay to win and nobody is talking like the sky is falling. Your argument for the most part is just made up.

 

It's not a major thing - we all know that. It's just the idea behind it that some of us don't like and would prefer if all kit was ultimately available to all players - through unlocks or purchases.

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"Virtually no one" is not the same as "no one". I'm typing in my phone in the gym and can't search the thread, but all of those comments exist (in most cases verbatim).

 

It may have only been a vocal minority that said them, but they're there. The suggestion that I'm making up quotes to suit my argument is at best mistaken.

 

Sorry sir, but I searched the thread and you're wrong, at least for 2 of thoses 3 comments.

- I was the only one to tell about "deal breaker" before you mention it... and that was to say "it's not a deal breaker", so the exact contrary of what you "quoted".

- The only other person talking about "pay to win" was talking about RoF, not BoS.

 

And yes... you're "making up" quotes to suit your argument, maybe not intentionaly, but maybe because you didn't really read the arguments in the post and overeacted without trying to understand what was said.

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The only thing I don't like about the RoF business model are the field mods. They should be free like in IL2, they seem a bit excessive. On the other hand how do they work online? Do servers have a setting mods on/off? Can servers restrict number availeable for each loadout like in Il2? Otherwise it's (a bit) pay to win isn't it.

 

Yes, the can be locked. No, it's not pay to win. The mods have severe penalties in weight which turns them into lumbering turds in the sky and slows them down. If it was an engine boost as well as more guns, then possibly it would be beneficial. However, added guns have added weight and when the airplane is already close to the line of being underpowered with a whopping 80 up to 220hp engine - just the slightest addition of weight impacts performance.

Edited by FuriousMeow

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No one ever imbalanced RoF because they bought an additional gun mod

SPAD VII Lewis, Sopwith Tripe twin-Vickers and Sopwith Camel top-wing cut-out (counts as weapon mod) massively improve the capability of the airplane at little to almost no disadvantage (in all those cases, the advantages definitely outweighs the disadvantages by a huge margin IMHO). Maybe there are other examples too (Sopwith Dolphin wing-Lewis perhaps). Anyway, most weapon mods are indeed balanced advantage/disadvantage-wise, many are more pay-to-lose than pay-to-win, but a few are almost essential. But this discussion is kind of mood, because we're comparing buy able weapon mods to exclusive preorder weapon mods.

 

I don't mind the decision for these 20mm guns on the 109 F that much because the 15mm variant will be available and it might even be more useful in some cases than the 20mm and both the 15mm and 20mm gun pods will be more of a hassle in other situations.

 

But I hope this is the last exclusive founders are getting. That's not the reason why I preordered.

Edited by Matt

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But I hope this is the last exclusive founders are getting. That's not the reason why I preordered.

 

Indeed... HOWEVER, it might be the nudge some others need to pre-order. Securing funds prior to a release to show interest would probably allow more funds from 1C to be allotted to begin work on expanding the current theater (more planes, units, etc) sooner rather than waiting until sales figures are in for the retail release in about 7 or 8 months and for the next title in the series.

Edited by FuriousMeow

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I don't mind the decision for these 20mm guns on the 109 F that much because the 15mm variant will be available and it might even be more useful in some cases than the 20mm and both the 15mm and 20mm gun pods will be more of a hassle in other situations.

 

But I hope this is the last exclusive founders are getting. That's not the reason why I preordered.

Actually, the 15mm variant is far less effective, imo to the point that it`s not worth using it when exchanged for the additional weight. Now the MG 151/20 pods however pack a great punch that could be decisive whether the Sturmovik attack succeeds or not. I used them with high effects many times, just takes a bit different combat attitude. Because of not being able to use them I strongly disagree with devs` attitude towards this. Nearly every single field mod had advantages and disadvantages, so no telling what they opt out next for normal users. 

 

I agree that the idea of discounts for the founders would be the better option, instead of denying latecomers the ability to use historical aircraft equipment.

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