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What do we expect from the coming BoM aircraft?


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Now that the big 1.009 update is here, we really only have the Ju 52 to wait for before turning our anticipation entirely over to BoM. 

 

To pass the time, I thought I'd start a discussion about the different upcoming aircraft, what we expect of them and how we would compare them to each other. It's not intented to be overly serious (it's still all hypethetical anyway) and I'd appreciate it, if people would refrain from getting into heated arguments.

 

Personally I find the plane set of BoM to be more interesting and varied than BoS´, which is pretty much all about the VVS fighters trying to catch up to what the Germans can do (at least on paper).

 

I'll present my thoughts on the individual planes separately in no particular order:

 

MiG-3: As much as I'm looking forward to this sexy bird, I don't expect much from it as a fighter (I'd expect a bit more, if the devs choose to model the late version, but not much more) Overall I'm expecting something like a more complicated Fw 190 with all its cannons stripped away. I expect it to be fairly maneuverable, but hard to handle in a fight with performance to match, but not exceed, the 109F2 at altitude and absolutely suck on the deck. It's guns will be enough to take out fighters, but utterly useless against bombers, so pray for a 2xShVAK version.

 

I-16 type 24: I think this little bumblebee will surprise most of those who don't know what to expect, and I expect some whining and gnashing of teeth from the less hard core of the LW crowd who'll suddenly get utterly outflown in low level furballs. It'll be one of the slowest aircraft in the sim, but will otherwise have respectable characteristics all around. It will outturn and outmaneuver anything else and will quite posibly be the quintessential dogfighter. It will likely offer one of the best views from the cockpit and allow great situational awareness. Its armament of 4 LMGs might seem inadequate, but 4xShKAS' can potentially spew out 120 rounds per second which should be quite sufficient to take out most fighters fairly quickly. However, I also expect the I-16 to be notoriously hard to fly. It was well known for being extremely unstable and tail heavy, so I expect it to be something like the equivalent of the Fokker Dr.I in RoF. Able to do maneuvers that no other plane can pull off, but demanding to fly and even more demanding to fly well.

 

P-40E: I expect something like a compromise between the Yak and the LaGG of BoS. Fairly maneuverable, acceptable low level performance, fine cockpit view, not bad but not remarkable either. Where it'll truly shine is in its armament, which will be absolutely deadly in the hads of someone who knows how to use convergence, as well as its durability, which I expect to be the first fighter in the sim to feel noticeably different from the others in this regard. Overall the P-40 will be the best bomber killer by far and a fighter to be reckoned with, even if it doesn't outshine any other planes.

 

Pe-2 S. 37: I don't expect it to be very different from the Pe-2 in BoS. Basically there are only two major differences, which I'd expect to be noticeable: It'll be faster than the later incarnations and might even outrun the Bf 109E7 at lower altitudes, and it'll be very poorly armoured making it extraordinarily prone to crew getting killed. Its defensive armament will be poorer and with more restricted field of fire. It'll have to rely on its speed and maneuverability to dodge the dangers to an even larger degree than the BoS Peshka.

 

IL-2 1941 version: What to say? Basically the same IL-2 we have now minus a bit of fuel tank armour and fewer armament options. Since we don't get to overload it as bad, it'll propably feel more maneuverable and easy to handle. It's weapons will propably feel inadequate against harder targets.

 

Bf 109F2: Believe it or not, I actually look forward to this bird despite its obvious similarities with the F4. I think its weaker firepower, fewer armament options and weaker engine will make it quite interesting and a good match for a 1941 Soviet planeset. Also it should have worse performance at altitude than the F4, which will be interesting when going up against the MiG. The lack of powerful Minengeschoss cannon rounds will be somewhat offset by the better penetrative power of the MG 151/15 when dealing with IL-2s, but otherwise expect a less potent but more interesting aircraft than the F4. 

 

Bf 109E7: I'm pretty much torn on what to expect. A differently armed, somewhat slower, somewhat less maneuverable 109F? Or a completely different beast with more difficult handling, ineffective controls or...? I just don't know. One thing is for sure: It'll be the most heavily armed Axis fighter in BoM (not counting the Bf 110) and will propably be designated bomber killer, provided it can catch the Pe-2.

 

MC. 202: This is kind of a dark horse, as I'm not completely sure, what to expect. I think it'll propably be a bit like the Yak in BoS with worse roll rate but better acceleration. I expect it to be quite maneuverable but somewhat less stable on the edge of its flight envelope than the 109s. It'll likely be a potent fighter but will lack the immediate punch of autocannon, but 2 - 4 HMGs will be adeaquate against most targets in the air as well as on the ground.

 

Bf 110E: The 110 has been well modelled in other sims, so I think I know what to expect, but I think there's good reason to have the 110E play the part of ground attack aircraft in BoM. Despite it's heavy armament and all right armour it has neither the performance nor the agility to pose much of a threat to VVS fighters. With a good human gunner, I can see it occasionally wrecking havoc online, but mostly it just won't be compettitive as a fighter. As a ground pounder it'll be adequate, much better against soft targets than hard targets. It will have the advantage of likely being able to fly home on one engine, which improves chances of survival in areas with AAA cover. As a bomber killer, it has the obvious problem, that the Pe-2s will propably just run from it, but against unescorted IL-2s with no rear gunners it'll be baby seal clubbing all day long.

 

Ju 88 A4: I expect a lot from this plane actually. It might not be able to carry quite as big a bombload as the He 111, but it should outperform it in virtually all other aspecs. I expect it to be easy to fly but with temperamental engines like the Ju 87. It should be able to carry a huge variety of ordinance and deliver them with precision both as a dive- and level bomber. Overall it should be tougher and more resilient than the He 111, but with all its crew crammed together in a single cockpit, that will of course be a weakness. In terms of defensive armament, it's really no worse off than the He 111.

 

 

Those are my thoughts. Now give me yours and let's have fun!

Edited by Finkeren
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the p40 will definitely be interesting

 i think most simmers will think its bad because they won't bother waiting to reach its respectable top speed due to its absolutely abysmal acceleration

 

itll shine in the hands of a patient player though, it also has excellent diving and good enough turning characteristics

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as far as the BF-110 goes it should be a challenge not to shot out of the air... can not recall that plane taking much damage in any game...

 

True, and propably accurate, but IIRC the 110E was specifically upgraded with more armour for use as a ground attack aircraft, and its performance downgraded accordingly.

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emil - high up hotrod

mig same

 

friedrich a shaftier version of our current one

 

Rata difficult to handle, underdog to boot. cannon upgrade might help.

 

P40 proper firepower-jabo

110 same, but fatter. in air to air only good for hunting peshkas.

 

peshka

and IL2 - same planes older brothers'... other weapons and engines.

 

MC202 - aerial ballerina, but so-so armament

 

Ju88- Thor's hammer.

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True, and propably accurate, but IIRC the 110E was specifically upgraded with more armour for use as a ground attack aircraft, and its performance downgraded accordingly.

 

Was just going to say... the folks hoping that the 110 is going to duke it out fighter style are probably going to be a little disappointed but for the ground attack crew the Bf110E is fast enough and hard hitting enough to make for an interesting weapon. More of a counterpart to the IL-2 role than the Ju87 offers us in BoS. I've read that they could carry a fair bit extra bombload than the normal Bf110 although I don't know how that relates to the later G-2 model that I know the best. I'm glad we're getting a 110 model and I'll definitely be flying it!

 

I think the MiG-3 is going to be better than we think and that the Bf109E-7 is going to be a fan favourite online...even with just 60 rounds, those twin cannons and the classic Emil design will be too hard to pass up!

Edited by ShamrockOneFive
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Guest deleted@30725

MC 202 I predict to be the best axis handling plane, but with smaller guns will take a little more skill to take down planes. I expect it to be a little fragile, but to be a potent plane with the right pilot.

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Hi Guys,

Does the IL2 1941 version had rear gunner field option?

Regards,

Peterla

 

Unlikely. Even though there are a few documented cases of experiements with rearward firing guns and rear gunner positions from 1941, they were extremely rare and all so different, that it would be imposible to properly model.

 

I think the lack of rear gunner and upgraded cannon are the primary justifications for making another version of the IL-2, when they might just as well have made the Su-2 which was actually more common during the first months of the war.

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I agree, but the PE 2 should be a little more agile and faster. The 110 should perform very well at high altitudes, but be a death trap at low altitudes with low energy. Better not go down there and loose speed. The P-40 is in my imagination like the Yak but a bit rougher and heavier, I am looking forward to it

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If you want a quick rundown of the different types of improvised rear gunner installations take a look here:

 

http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2-camo/converted2seaters/transition.htm

 

Though it doesn't cover everything, that site is a treasure trove of otherwise hard to reach information about Soviet WW2 aircraft with loads of interesting photo evidence. The site is directed towards scale modelers, so you won't find any performance tables or accurate specifications on the aircraft.

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If you want a quick rundown of the different types of improvised rear gunner installations take a look here:

 

http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/il-2/il2-camo/converted2seaters/transition.htm

 

Though it doesn't cover everything, that site is a treasure trove of otherwise hard to reach information about Soviet WW2 aircraft with loads of interesting photo evidence. The site is directed towards scale modelers, so you won't find any performance tables or accurate specifications on the aircraft.

Thanks for this link Finkeren, always good to learn more.

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Ive been away. Was there a guestimate as to a release date for BOM? Next Christmas?

Pre-order from March, and there will be Early Access like there was for BoS. The Early Access has no scheduled start date but will likely begin fairly soon after pre-purchase is opened. This time around the devs aren't building an entire new sim but merely creating new content, which would mean, that they'd have something ready for EA pretty fast.

 

BoM in it's entirety is scheduled to be done in 2015, when exactly is not known, but it's propably safe to assume that it'll happen in the last quarter.

Edited by Finkeren
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Ju 88 A4:... , but with all its crew crammed together in a single cockpit, that will of course be a weakness.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, maybe weakness in game but in real life virtually all JU88 crew really appreciated this feature. It was excellent for keeping the spirit high even the most difficult situations, never feeling alone and you could "read from face" even without working headsets. No one wanted to be alone in rear gunner station in other bombers...

 

Ju 88 in general was really liked by it pilots, "it flew like dream", "real pilot's plane" to quote some of our ww2 bomber pilots. Only weak point were the engines wich needed lots of maintenance per flying hour.

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I'd appreciate it, if people would refrain from getting into heated arguments.

Oh but why do you think that would happen? ;-)

 

Tak, fin læsning om de kommende fly. Også fin anmeldelse.

Edited by Freycinet
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Yeah, maybe weakness in game but in real life virtually all JU88 crew really appreciated this feature. It was excellent for keeping the spirit high even the most difficult situations, never feeling alone and you could "read from face" even without working headsets. No one wanted to be alone in rear gunner station in other bombers...

 

Ju 88 in general was really liked by it pilots, "it flew like dream", "real pilot's plane" to quote some of our ww2 bomber pilots. Only weak point were the engines wich needed lots of maintenance per flying hour.

I agree. I'd only view the tight grouping of the crew as a disadvantage from a pure 'gamey' DM standpoint. In actual combat having crewmembers within arms reach of one another is a huge benefit.

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especially if you are lucky to fly a proper head-on pass.
huge benefit to "killem all" hehehehe
maybe not with puny 7.7's, but a P-40-style Gun setup will turn that cockpit into a meatgrinder in a fast and effective way.

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.....

 

IL-2 1941 version: What to say? Basically the same IL-2 we have now minus a bit of fuel tank armour and fewer armament options. Since we don't get to overload it as bad, it'll propably feel more maneuverable and easy to handle. It's weapons will propably feel inadequate against harder targets.

......

 

Il-2 AM-38 version 1941 - must be with allmetal wing.

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One of my books somewhere had some interesting comments from German pilots flying F2s against I-16s in Barbarossa, essentially saying that they had difficulty with them originally because they (F2s) approached too fast, they had to learn to find the right speed to maintain the initiative but also allow sufficient time to track the target with their rather weak armament.

 

Which sounds as though "pure BnZ" in an F2 vs I-16 fight might be questionable unless you are an outstanding shot, especially with the new "tough guy" DM. Time for the Germans to practice their yo-yos?

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the game failed basically, don't expect too much. i think 777 will focus on publishing from now on.

 

[Edited]

Edited by Bearcat
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the game failed basically, don't expect too much. i think 777 will focus on publishing from now on.

 

Disagree (of course) I don't think all of BoS was a rousing success, but the sim itself is quite good and getting better and better with each update. Also, your prediction seems kinda silly in light of what the devs have laid out in the last couple of weeks.

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I expect to have more planes modelled decently under these FMs and with the same care that the team put into modeling the ones we have now... Really looking forward to that P-40.

 

the game failed basically, don't expect too much. i think 777 will focus on publishing from now on.

 

Lol... that is funny... There have been so many folks who have been ushering in the demise of this sim since it was announced..  and it is still here... :rolleyes::salute:

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P40 = 3780 kg with 1217 PS

Mc 202 = 3010 kg with 1175 PS

YAK-1 = 2.847 kg with 1.050 PS

 

Thats 3,1 Kg/PS vs 2,56 Kg/PS

Just Vikipediadata. I guess the P40 will feel like a flying brick with a shitload of firepower.

 

YAK-1 is 2,7 Kg/PS

Mc 202 should feel even more potent than the YAK-1 if we look at those numers.

I look forward to the Macci very much.

Edited by VSG1_Winger
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Bf109F-2

Most Manouverable 109 of all times, should totally outmanouver the Bf109E-7/N, very small turning circle and around 17.5 seconds in a turn.

1175hp at 2728kg, better rate of roll and best climb rate of all in BoM.

Armament is average and if we get to remove the Headrest completely it should have brilliant all around view. Probably the Aircraft I'm most looking forward to.

Should be outperformed by Mig-3 above 3500m, Top Speed is rather low at only 615 at WEP compared to 640 of a clean Mig.

 

Bf109E-7/N

Old School Bf109. Average in turn and roll, but very stable and simple gunplatform. Should be slightly more tricky on takeoff and gerenally shakier more vibraty during manouvering and somewhat unsettling when doing sudden manouvers. Very good Dogfighter, but excells at destryoing heavy aircraft.

18.92 seconds turn at 30 minutes power settings and 170m radius. Should be good fun, but outperformed by Mig-3.

About 2540kg and 1175hp.

 

MC.202

Top Speed between E and F model Bf109, better rate of roll at high speeds, should handle like a Fw190 just with lower wing loading. Should enter flat spins. Heaviest German fighter at 2930 kg and 1175 hp.

 

MiG-3

Probably the Best Fighter, extremely good Top Speed and in combination with High Flying Pe-2s should be unbeatable. Good Manouverability and different armament options.

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P40 = 3780 kg with 1217 PS

Mc 202 = 3010 kg with 1175 PS

YAK-1 = 2.847 kg with 1.050 PS

 

Thats 3,1 Kg/PS vs 2,56 Kg/PS

Just Vikipediadata. I guess the P40 will feel like a flying brick with a shitload of firepower.

 

YAK-1 is 2,7 Kg/PS

Mc 202 should feel even more potent than the YAK-1 if we look at those numers.

I look forward to the Macci very much.

Is that a Yak-1 with the 105P or 105PF engine. I thought it had more power than that? Still this gives is a great idea of what each are like. I'm curious to see how the MC.202 turns out the most... In IL-2 1946 it had a rather nasty stall and I never felt it was the best handling machine but popular opinion seems to suggest that it was brilliantly aerobatic and well liked by its pilots for everything except firepower.
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Firstly, delighted that BOM is a happening project.  I hope this also means further refinement (patches) to BOS as well.  

Really enjoyed the bf110 and Ju88 in CLoD. The P40 should be an interesting addition.

Would like to see:

.  in-game navigation tools (draw lines on map, protractor etc).

.  mature mission editor - including ability to have both sides as human and AI.

.  Stable Dserver

.  Scoring for ground objects (tanks, buildings, airfield damage) as well as in-air victories

.  A more refined FM - can ignore the turn-slip indicator in BOS

.  Limited click cockpit - can live without, but nice to have.

.  Seasonal maps - understand this is happening.

.  More ground objects - BOS is arguably the best in this area, but you can never have too many targets!

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Is that a Yak-1 with the 105P or 105PF engine. I thought it had more power than that? Still this gives is a great idea of what each are like. I'm curious to see how the MC.202 turns out the most... In IL-2 1946 it had a rather nasty stall and I never felt it was the best handling machine but popular opinion seems to suggest that it was brilliantly aerobatic and well liked by its pilots for everything except firepower.

the one i quoted has the 105P engine. Wich one do we have in BOS? Wasnt the 105PF only later in production.

Again i am no specialist. Just googling a little and quoting some numbers i find. I stand happy to be corrected.

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Agree with most of the points mentioned. The Emil will perhaps be faster than it's BoB counterparts but less mannouvrable and heavier due to additional armour and ground attack equipment.

 

Since E-7 Jabos were partly improvised out of modified E-1s and E-3s from the BoB days it will be interesting to see what the devs come up with.

 

The Ju 88 despite being more capeable performance wise will offer less protection. Especially the sleek fuselage and the cramped crew compartment made it not only uncomfortable but prone the crew death.

 

In a documentary a german pilot reported the defensive gun positions were so bad their only use was to moralize the crew In the event of an attack rather than for shootimg down incoming fighters.

 

A true bomber pilot will have good fun with it togwther with the good old Heinkel, which still has its strongpoints in ruggetness, crew comfort, visibility and bombload.

 

The F-2 will be pretty potent and very familiar to battle hardened F-4 pilots. I appreciate the 15mm incendiary shells and the higher muzzle velocity that comes with it and am interested about it's additional equipment (at least one F-2 has been tested with a RZ65 rocket launcher kit).

Edited by Stab/JG26_5tuka
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