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Would a Mods On Choice Benefit BoS

Would a Mods On Choice Benefit BoS  

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  1. 1. Will a Mods On Choice Benefit BoS



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Look at the sort of madness modding wants to open up with RoF. These people will just wreck the game and splinter it into a thousand pieces.

 

http://riseofflight.com/forum/topic/45450-future-rof-community-driven-modding-team/

 

Nonsense, absurd scaremongering. 

 

The debate over at RoF is motivated by the fear that an old, minority interest game is on the verge of being abandoned by its playerbase and a development team that clearly have other things to do. In that case, fully opening the code to a Daedelus type semi-official mod group could extend the life of the game, providing it is done quickly while there are still enough people around who are interested.

 

Now this fear may or may not be justified, but it is clear that this is a completely different scenario to the BoS/BoM game, where all that is being asked for is a mods-on capability of the kind that RoF has always had - without splintering the game into a thousand pieces!

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the fear that an old, minority interest game is on the verge of being abandoned by its playerbase and a development team

Now that's scaremongering. 777 just releases a major update and people fear it's being "abandoned"?

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Now this fear may or may not be justified, but it is clear that this is a completely different scenario to the BoS/BoM game, where all that is being asked for is a mods-on capability of the kind that RoF has always had - without splintering the game into a thousand pieces!

 

+1, you stated what I was about to reply with as well.

What this poll was all about was just giving us a MODS ON mode just like ROF has had, which was originally planned,  and has worked quite well for ROF.

 

No, the sky is not falling...

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Now that's scaremongering. 777 just releases a major update and people fear it's being "abandoned"?

Sorry, which major update was that you were talking about?

 

The rather crude FM tweaks which Jason said were the last the community was likely to get? Which some MP players have blamed for the reduction in playing numbers? (Do not ask me, I am SP - but this is what they say).

 

Or perhaps you were referring to the unwanted, unasked for and un-quality controlled GUI changes and always on rear gunner aiming help which has led to an old supporter and film maker like Dr Zebra to quit in disgust?

 

The reality is that long term supporters of RoF are currently in the mood that RoF is dying, because the sort of changes 777 seems willing or able to make do not address their concerns. Whether or not any changes can revive an old, minority interest game is another matter. But the idea that "free-modding" as it is dramatically labeled, would shatter the community into a thousand pieces seems intrinsically unlikely if there are fewer than a thousand people regularly playing the game.

 

Dragging up the specific concerns of RoF in order to smear the idea of a mods-on mode for BoS is scaremongering plain and simple: the two games are in totally different phases of their development cycles.

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+1, you stated what I was about to reply with as well.

What this poll was all about was just giving us a MODS ON mode just like ROF has had, which was originally planned, and has worked quite well for ROF.

 

No, the sky is not falling...

I don't know if a Mods Mode has worked well for RoF considering that some now want to hack the FMs and splinter the game. The discussion over there does not encourage me to believe the idea of having mods is a good thing. It opens the door to anarchy.

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I don't know if a Mods Mode has worked well for RoF considering that some now want to hack the FMs and splinter the game. The discussion over there does not encourage me to believe the idea of having mods is a good thing. It opens the door to anarchy.

 

Not hardly, your turning that discussion which is something completely different into what would happen with a Mod on mode. Quit crying wolf.

Yes, having a MODS on feature has worked, and worked very well, for ROF. That fact simply can not be debated.

 

You yourself have admitted, to flying ROF with MODS on. Folks have been doing it for quite some time now.

I only fly ROF with MODS on.

Edited by dburne

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I find it a little disturbing/discouraging that some folks will go over to the RoF Forums and post that mods are horrible and the sky is falling and RoF will be destroyed by mods, and then come over here and post about how the discussion on the RoF Forums shows that mods are horrible and the sky is falling and we shouldn't have a mods on mode for BoS.  

 

And yes, as pointed out above, the two games are in completely different stages of their life cycles and whatever discussion is going on over on the RoF Forums about whether RoF might benefit from becoming even more open to mods if the devs have decided or ever do decide to cease supporting it is completely different from and irrelevant to the core question here about whether having a RoF-style Mods On/Mods Off mechanism would be good for BoS.

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I find it a little disturbing/discouraging that some folks will go over to the RoF Forums and post that mods are horrible and the sky is falling and RoF will be destroyed by mods, and then come over here and post about how the discussion on the RoF Forums shows that mods are horrible and the sky is falling and we shouldn't have a mods on mode for BoS.  

 

And yes, as pointed out above, the two games are in completely different stages of their life cycles and whatever discussion is going on over on the RoF Forums about whether RoF might benefit from becoming even more open to mods if the devs have decided or ever do decide to cease supporting it is completely different from and irrelevant to the core question here about whether having a RoF-style Mods On/Mods Off mechanism would be good for BoS.

The discussion there is relevant to BoS since it would likely follow down the same path if it has the same features. It's clear when it comes to modding that the small vocal group of enthusiasts there who feel they can't get everything they was from the Devs with regard to the FMs now want to take away official support for the game.

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The discussion there is relevant to BoS since it would likely follow down the same path if it has the same features. It's clear when it comes to modding that the small vocal group of enthusiasts there who feel they can't get everything they was from the Devs with regard to the FMs now want to take away official support for the game.

 

Sharpe, your first sentence above; yeah, good.  I'd like them to take the mods on/mods off path the has been established with RoF.

 

Your second sentence is frankly ludicrous.  

 

The great thing about the mods on/mods off system is that the core parts of the game like flight models and such are still in the hands of the devs.  There is no threat to anything.  Hopefully Loft will come to his senses and give us a mods on mode for BoS.

 

Along with - deep breath - graphics options, the F11 key, coop mode, etc, etc. :blink:

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The great thing about the mods on/mods off system is that the core parts of the game like flight models and such are still in the hands of the devs.

And yet what's really ludicrous is what's being discussed there is modding the FMs.

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And yet what's really ludicrous is what's being discussed there is modding the FMs.

 

I'm 100% against any modding of FM or DM ever.

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And yet what's really ludicrous is what's being discussed there is modding the FMs.

 

Sharpe they are discussing options that have nothing to do with the mods on/mods off mode.  Can't you understand that?

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Sharpe they are discussing options that have nothing to do with the mods on/mods off mode.  Can't you understand that?

Yes and one road leads to the other

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Oh boy......................................................

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I cant remember seing any FM mods for RoF which doesn't suprise me anyway. FMs are hardcoded and as such not accesible by the "usual" modder.

 

Another point why FMs are kept harcoded is that they reveal some of the maths and physics devs probably want to keep hidden to publicity. That's why FM or DM mods are probably the least things you'll see being modded.

 

Anyway, whats the point of this discussion....modding has no effect on mod off mode MP.  Point. Nothing to fear or shout about, no unfairness, nada. But I see some purely subjective point of views won't change and that special individuals will always find a way to blame modding.

 

Again, don't confuse modding with hacking, which is already possible now (to a certain extent).

Edited by Stab/JG26_5tuka

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That's why FM or DM mods are probably the least things you'll see being modded.

There's a mod for the DM in RoF.

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Maybe though after flying on dogfight servers (Aces Falling + Flying circus) and the Syndicate server for more than a year I yet have to come across sby I suspect of using mods in MODS OFF mode.

 

Guess this is still unconvincing, well some things never change....to each his own.

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There's a mod for the DM in RoF.

 

So what?

 

So it works in "Mods On" mode, and SP players can use it if they feel like it but don't have to use it if they don't want to.  

 

So those few MP players who might want to get together and run their own Mods On MP server can use it if they want to.

 

So it doesn't work in Mods Off mode, which is what almost all of the MP servers use, so it has essentially zero effect on MP play whatsover.

 

Yet somehow the sky is falling and the existence of a DM-related mod spells the doom of RoF and BoS?

 

Sorry - I still don't get why the fact that "There's a mod for the DM in RoF." has any bearing on whether or why a mods on mode for BoS would be good for BoS like it has been for RoF.

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So what?

 

So it works in "Mods On" mode, and SP players can use it if they feel like it but don't have to use it if they don't want to.  

 

So those few MP players who might want to get together and run their own Mods On MP server can use it if they want to.

 

So it doesn't work in Mods Off mode, which is what almost all of the MP servers use, so it has essentially zero effect on MP play whatsover.

 

Yet somehow the sky is falling and the existence of a DM-related mod spells the doom of RoF and BoS?

 

Sorry - I still don't get why the fact that "There's a mod for the DM in RoF." has any bearing on whether or why a mods on mode for BoS would be good for BoS like it has been for RoF.

Lots of people seem to agree that the core elements of the game like the FM & DM shouldn't be moddable. That's just pointing out that it's possible.

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Yes and one road leads to the other

 

Really, talk about projecting...

 

Again:

Mods ON option works in ROF, and works very well.

I only fly ROF SP Mods On.

It has a robust multiplayer community, mainly flying Mods OFF -----> Yes, that is an option.

The sky is not falling.

Many enhancements that came to ROF, that got hard coded in, came from guess where - having this Mods On option available.

It was stated early on, that BOS would have this same Mods On OPTION ( key word - option, not requirement).

 

There is a large SP contingent , that would obviously benefit from having this option available.

All we are asking for, is the option.

Edited by dburne
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There's a mod for the DM in RoF.

So what? Why should you care?? It has been made abundantly clear in language that even you should be able to understand that it has zero effect on you or anybody else who chooses to fly in the default Mods-off mode. Not now, not ever.

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Mod is a must have.

 

You forget to mention IA MOD and many more.

 

Zak, on 19 Feb 2015 - 05:12, said:snapback.png

 

What gets left out here is that the RoF SDK for modding only came out about 2 years ago (or was it 3? Whatever, it ain't 6 years...). 

There really has been a little renaissance for RoF modding the last year or so, so don't believe everything you hear...

GermanDrifter_zpsa0d85f1a.jpg

 

And still a work in progress, maybe some day... :rolleyes:  Anyone?

SMS_Torpedoboot_zps04d3e059.jpg

Bandy, you already answer that on Rof forum, i want that boat before i'm dead. ;)

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mod "on" it is essential for ROF and for BOS and future BOM ...   :fly:

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Mods on = opening the door to to community creativity = a more immersive game experience and BOS series longevity. Make it happen, pretty please?

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Don't count on it, only 94 percent of the 200+ participants want it, far far to low of a percentage for the devs to take notice.

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Nothing to do with the percentage.....unless you consider what 200 people is a percentage of how many people have bought BoS......which must be a very low figure, cant believe so few have an interest in mods on mode a la RoF which worked very well.

To be honest 200 people is a very piss-poor turnout for what many consider (including myself) such an important facet of the genre...flight simmers...their own worst enemy :)

 

Cheers Dakpilot

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Mods have always been a niche catagory in sims, I mean hell there are still people flying unmodded IL2 46 just because they dont know about them or they are fraking luddites.

But Im kinda surprised too. This needs a lot more promotion.

I just dropped it into my sig, and maybe we should all do something along these lines just to gget the word out on the forum. At least now every time I post I bring the issue up.

 

DO YOU WANT TO ENHANCE THIS SIM WITH USER CREATED CONTENT? THEN GO HERE AND VOTE FOR IT!

http://forum.il2stur...ce-benefit-bos/

MODS ON OR GAME OFF!

Edited by forsale
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Mods have always been a niche catagory in sims, I mean hell there are still people flying unmodded IL2 46 just because they dont know about them or they are fraking luddites.

But Im kinda surprised too. This needs a lot more promotion.

I just dropped it into my sig, and maybe we should all do something along these lines just to gget the word out on the forum. At least now every time I post I bring the issue up.

 

DO YOU WANT TO ENHANCE THIS SIM WITH USER CREATED CONTENT? THEN GO HERE AND VOTE FOR IT!

http://forum.il2stur...ce-benefit-bos/

MODS ON OR GAME OFF!

A good idea . :salute: 

1+

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Of course a "mods on" mode would benefit the game. There are so many games that blew up "in a good sense" because of a SDK.

Some of the most popular games even began as mods....

I would love to pilot a helicopter one day using IL2 physical and damage model.

 

Would also be fun to have a base defense mod where you get to command the AA fire from the airfield

Racing planes would be a great addition as well.... And equipped with guns or markers would make for one hell of a dogfight!

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There are 49,000 members of the forum and 226 of them voted here. So if you want to get good user generated content into BoS the way to do it is have it added officially, not via modding. Only a small fraction of players will understand how to use mods or take the time to manage them and include them.

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There are 49,000 members of the forum and 226 of them voted here. So if you want to get good user generated content into BoS the way to do it is have it added officially, not via modding. Only a small fraction of players will understand how to use mods or take the time to manage them and include them.

 

That sure worked out well for ROF!

 

/S

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That sure worked out well for ROF!

 

/S

Do you know how many people use the mods in RoF? Do any of them have a ticker to show how many times they've been downloaded?

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There are 49,000 members of the forum and 226 of them voted here. So if you want to get good user generated content into BoS the way to do it is have it added officially, not via modding. Only a small fraction of players will understand how to use mods or take the time to manage them and include them.

Your post(s) is(are) asinine and your opinion wrong.

 

The amount of people that voted bears no consequence to the importance of the issue, more to the publicity of it.

 

Further the idea that user made content must go through the devs is a failed concept, one that has failed the test of time and implimentation in all of the major sims in our genre. IL2 46, CoD, RoF, DCS, and Strike fighters have all been given a new, longer, more vital lease on life by the infusion of user created material. Even the "offical updates" for IL2 46 are not more than the creations of a mod team that was given an offical seal and the SDK. TD is a tribute to the accomplishment of what dedicated modders can do WITH studio support (all of thier releases are in effect mod packs), and TF have shown what dedicated community members can do for the good of a sim all on their own.

 

Your suggestion that a small minority are capable of reading a file structure and manipulating files therin is idiotic, insulting to the community at large and demonstrative of a paternal attitude you are simply not entitled to in this case. One mod site for IL2 has over 12000 members by itself, many of which are regular contributers and all of which are users. Just one of many. The fact that there are multiple thousands of mod users for the other sims in this genre is demonstrable. HSFX, Histomod, SAS1946, IL2freemods, Ultrapack (oh the old days), Storm of war, etc.

 

Hell Mission 4 today has 65000 members by itself. The very idea that people would be incapable is beyond the farthest reaches of idiocy that the english language can describe. There may be many that choose not to use them, but it is a choice, there are many many thousands that use mods, for multiple sims, every single day to no ones detriment. It does nothing more than increase sales and popularity of the base game.

 

Finally comparing to RoF is apples to anvils. WW1 does not have the wide ranging appeal that WW2 does, by orders of magnitude.

 

Simply stated they had better own the mods or the modders will simly take the game from them and do as they wish. This has all happened before and to think that it is different in this case is just flat out wrong.

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This is from recent ROF discusion:

 

As someone who dug into the game code some years ago I can tell: forget about FM mods and or adding new aircrafts as mods. These are part of the game code, scattered in a dll with specific compiled C++ classes behind every aircraft.

My guess it was done both as DRM measure and because it was initially easier to implement than having an universal framework supporting all aircrafts as probably every other sim does. My another guess is that this decision should often bite them in their *ss because any FM changes have to go through their (only?) programmer. Though I'm just speculating here.

This man (Ankor85) is now developing WOFF he know more about DN engine mods next to devs itself. Edited by tomcatqw

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This is from recent ROF discusion:

 

This man (Ankor85) is now developing WOFF he know more about DN engine mods next to devs itself.

That's all for the best since modding the FMs would be a disaster.

Your post(s) is(are) asinine and your opinion wrong.

 

The amount of people that voted bears no consequence to the importance of the issue, more to the publicity of it.

 

Further the idea that user made content must go through the devs is a failed concept, one that has failed the test of time and implimentation in all of the major sims in our genre. IL2 46, CoD, RoF, DCS, and Strike fighters have all been given a new, longer, more vital lease on life by the infusion of user created material. Even the "offical updates" for IL2 46 are not more than the creations of a mod team that was given an offical seal and the SDK. TD is a tribute to the accomplishment of what dedicated modders can do WITH studio support (all of thier releases are in effect mod packs), and TF have shown what dedicated community members can do for the good of a sim all on their own.

 

Your suggestion that a small minority are capable of reading a file structure and manipulating files therin is idiotic, insulting to the community at large and demonstrative of a paternal attitude you are simply not entitled to in this case. One mod site for IL2 has over 12000 members by itself, many of which are regular contributers and all of which are users. Just one of many. The fact that there are multiple thousands of mod users for the other sims in this genre is demonstrable. HSFX, Histomod, SAS1946, IL2freemods, Ultrapack (oh the old days), Storm of war, etc.

 

Hell Mission 4 today has 65000 members by itself. The very idea that people would be incapable is beyond the farthest reaches of idiocy that the english language can describe. There may be many that choose not to use them, but it is a choice, there are many many thousands that use mods, for multiple sims, every single day to no ones detriment. It does nothing more than increase sales and popularity of the base game.

 

Finally comparing to RoF is apples to anvils. WW1 does not have the wide ranging appeal that WW2 does, by orders of magnitude.

 

Simply stated they had better own the mods or the modders will simly take the game from them and do as they wish. This has all happened before and to think that it is different in this case is just flat out wrong.

Whatever. The numbers speak for themselves. There's a poll regarding mods on the RoF forum that recieved 67 replies from a forum membership of 264,000

The reason old games like IL-2 46 are so heavily modded is that support for them has ceased. When it was actively supported it was not modded.

I'm not trying to dismiss the community but I think you all that are gaming experts need to realize how much this needs to be simplified for the average user.

Edited by SharpeXB

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