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Developer Diary, Part 88 - Discussion

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There will be unlocks and they will be skippable for premium accounts.

THANK HEAVENS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope they learned from the current SP too.

 

At any rate, I will support this simply because they removed 90% of this Unlocks insanity.

They still need to strengthen the SP side of things before I give my finacial support for add ons beyond this newly announced BOM.

To me that seems like a worthy time table for things to be further straightened out.

 

If we can start to see FMB user created missions and campaigns and the base SP campaign also improving in the future of the series, then I will continue to do my full 180 degree turn in supporting this game.

 

I have no problem spending the money , but I Am very much the part of the Single Player flight sim community demographic

.

I play flight sims because I love to fly and TWO: I could always play how I wanted and when I wanted. 

 

BOS was the first Flight Sim Game that limited that for me so very greatly. 

The team seems to be listening to this major problem though.

Make no doubt that I am happy to see some of the changes that have been made here and some of the future plans.

 

Keep up the Good work.

Sincerely Desode

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I'll throw this suggestion out again on the off change it gains favour with the person(s) that could make it happen.

 

Any chance of a nation specific plane purchase option? That is the standard Russian (I-16 type 24, Mig-3, IL2 model 1941, Pe-2 series 35) or German (BF 109 F-2, Bf 109 E-7, Bf 110 E-2, JU 88 A-4) planes plus the rest of BoM for $35-40. Premium planes would be extra.

 

Then there's also the option for BoS plus BoM nation packs, so LaGG-3 (series 29), Yak-1 (series 69), IL-2 AM-38 (1942 year's model, single-seat), Pe-2 (series 87), I-16 type 24, Mig-3, IL2 model 1941, Pe-2 series 35 for the Russians plus the BoS and BoM content or Bf 109 F-4, Bf 109 G-2,  Ju 87 D-3, He 111 H-6, BF 109 F-2, Bf 109 E-7, Bf 110 E-2, JU 88 A-4 for the Germans along with BoS and BoM content. Discounts available if you've already purchased a full standard or premium version of either BoS or BoM already.

 

I'm of the opinion that more options are better, up to a point of course. I'm also pretty sure I'm not the only one that has a favourite nation in the battles and/or would be more inclined to purchase a tailored package because money is more of a consideration.

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Since the peoples that want the swatiskas will use custom skins.... then it doesn't matter if the skins provided with the game uses nothing or the current drawing on the tail (since it will be wrong in both cases)

 

Well, I don't care about custom skins, think this interest most for online squads, and if he skiner master (or a previous a skate painter) want use his Grandmother picture as "swastika" this dont bother me because I will not see it. 

 

But I want that when I play SP my wingmans or the the planes that I see in MP have proper skins - and not green skins in winter times - and since 'swastika" is not politically correct in games, instead a aberration in place I prefer see the Luftwaffe planes like did JG53 in the "Pik As" episode during BoB. ;)

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Well, I must say you've really made my day.

 

You have:

 

- Got rid of the stupid unlocks but kept in 'something' to grind for (skins) which I think is the perfect compromise.

- Introduced loads of new content and rejuvenated the community, always good!

- Shown a real understanding (compatibility) of your users.

 

I'm truthfully and utterly impressed, this seems like a complete reversal on the defensive approach to your community in the past and I can't wait to enjoy the series more.

 

Well done guys, these were the best decisions you could make! - Thanks!

 

:)

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I prefer to see the correct historical skins in a game for the same reason you would expect to see them in a movie. Can you imagine a WWII movie with black Xs on the German planes?

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Devs, is there any word on when BoS will receive a Mods-on mode?  I'm hoping for an arrangement similar to the one which RoF currently enjoys. 

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I'm wondering what the price of BoM will be.  Bos is currently out of my price range, but if both games were included in the $68/$110 (the canadian dollar is quite low currently :unsure:) price tag, it wouldn't be hard to justify a purchase.

 

However, if offered at the same price, these games would be far, far too expensive for the average IL-2 fan.

 

Can anyone help me out with this?

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I'm sure it would be a price point that would also benefit 1C/777 home fan base (Russia), their currency has tanked more then anyone's against the greenback. 

 

I'm happy to pay the same price as last time, even though my national currency is now 20% less then when I bought BoS. I see it has helping the Sim move along, I want to see more theatres especially 1944 on wards (fingers crossed for ME262). But I'm willing to wait and have fun with BoM and hopefully as others suggest Kuban. 

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However, if offered at the same price, these games would be far, far too expensive for the average IL-2 fan.

 

 

 

Would they?   I dunno who the average IL2 fan is but if he's anything like me he's sitting behind nearly $1500 worth of equipment.  The cost of the software that the rest of the system is built for seems trivial in comparison.

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However, if offered at the same price, these games would be far, far too expensive for the average IL-2 fan.

The average IL-2 fan?

 

Not sure what that is based on..

 

But I do know this..

 

Flight simming has always been a pricey hobby..

 

Due to the price of the hardware, not the software..

 

The game has always been the cheapest part of the package..

 

Heck, even the cheap-o joystick at wallmart will run about $50 bucks..

 

So, I never understood those who suggest the price of the game is a problem, when..

 

~$1,000 PC

~$100 OS

~$500 Video Card

~$100 Joystick

~$100 Rudders

~$100 Throttle

~$150 TIR

------------------

~$2,050 total hardware

 

~$100 total game cost

 

I get it we are all trying to save money these days, but, when you look at the cost of the hardware, the game is nothing.. Granted my hardware list is that of what I would call a hardcore flight simmer.. I realize there are some cross overs from other games that may only have a joystick and only play flight sims when the all the Quake servers are full.. But I personally don't care about those types.. If they cross over to hard core flight simmers, Ill be the first to say WELCOME! But if they see flights sims as just something they do when they get board of building castles in age of empires.. Well, sorry bout your bad luck! So in a way, and note people hate it when I say this, the price kind of acts like a kid-o filter, which IMHO is a good thing! Note, not saying your a kid-o, but, the good news about higher priced games means the kid-os are less apt to tell their mom to buy it for them when they could get several other types of games for the same price.

Edited by ACEOFACES
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$100 is a bit steep imo, considering bos has not even been out for a year..hopefully its less than 100 that when released

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Notably, the db601&5 left a very visible dark exhaust trail when the throttle was increased. So much so, that intercepting 109s were often first id'd by american fighter escort pilots via their exhaust smoke plumes, as they climbed to meet the bomber stream.

 

TIFWIW

 

 

 

 

http://www.warbirdsforum.com/topic/3824-is-it-normal-for-bf-109-exhaust-smoke-to-be-visible/?p=29750

 

"Yes, a noticeable trail of thick black smoke when the throttle was abruptly opened was a trademark of Daimler Benz DB60x engines. It was a result of two features shared by these engines: fluid coupling of the supercharger transmission and direct fuel injection. 

Advantages of fluid coupling (similar to a torque converter in automotive automatic transmissions) included: a limited range of continuously variable transmission ratio between the lower and the higher supercharger speed, and torsional vibration damping for the impeller. Its disadvantage was a certain inertia. When the engine rpm suddenly increased, it took a moment for supercharger impeller to catch up.

 

Fuel injection meant that the amount of fuel applied was proportional to throttle settings, and – unlike suction carburetors – insensitive to momentary drops of air pressure supplied by the supercharger.

 

All together it meant that when the throttle lever was sharply pushed forward, the amount of fuel supplied to the piston charge increased instantly, while the amount of supercharged air increased slower (until the supercharger impeller revved up). As a result, the mixture became excessively rich, with unburned fuel producing black smoke.

 

This behavior was misleading for Allied pilots – their engines did not usually act like this. It lead to many false victory claims (though probably made in good faith). Allied aircraft engines in the first part of war relied on purely mechanical (geared) supercharger transmissions and suction carburetors (later also injection carburetors). Fluid coupling and direct fuel injection were implemented on a limited scale only towards the end of WWII."

 

 

I remember the aviation author Jeff Ethel mentioning that their were  many B-17 gunner claims on 109's because of this same quality.While doing a Split-S the German pilots would puh the throttle near the limit& belch grey exhaust smoke.Gunners thought they nailed them;"He was going straight down with billowing black smoke!!!" ;) 

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heinkill, on 13 Feb 2015 - 18:35, said: That P40 though - would it be available as a premium plane for both BoS and Moscow?

Yes, you will be able to buy it for BOS.

 

So thats why there is a Line between the two last planes and thats why the two last planes are smaller represented than the others?

I have the feeling that the future editions maybe look like that or similar?

 

Standard Version

 

 

4vbdfce95eme.jpg

 

 

 Premium Version

 

 

5fz3set7q9g.jpg

 

 

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I get it we are all trying to save money these days, but, when you look at the cost of the hardware, the game is nothing.. Granted my hardware list is that of what I would call a hardcore flight simmer.. I realize there are some cross overs from other games that may only have a joystick and only play flight sims when the all the Quake servers are full.. But I personally don't care about those types.. If they cross over to hard core flight simmers, Ill be the first to say WELCOME! But if they see flights sims as just something they do when they get board of building castles in age of empires.. Well, sorry bout your bad luck! So in a way, and note people hate it when I say this, the price kind of acts like a kid-o filter, which IMHO is a good thing! Note, not saying your a kid-o, but, the good news about higher priced games means the kid-os are less apt to tell their mom to buy it for them when they could get several other types of games for the same price.

 

So you don't care about those who only have a joystick?  Oh my .....

 

Back to topic, it's nice to see those big plans. Both MiG-3 and M.C.202 are very good looking planes in my opinion.

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(...)

I get it we are all trying to save money these days, but, when you look at the cost of the hardware, the game is nothing.. Granted my hardware list is that of what I would call a hardcore flight simmer.. I realize there are some cross overs from other games that may only have a joystick and only play flight sims when the all the Quake servers are full.. But I personally don't care about those types.. If they cross over to hard core flight simmers, Ill be the first to say WELCOME! But if they see flights sims as just something they do when they get board of building castles in age of empires.. Well, sorry bout your bad luck! So in a way, and note people hate it when I say this, the price kind of acts like a kid-o filter, which IMHO is a good thing! Note, not saying your a kid-o, but, the good news about higher priced games means the kid-os are less apt to tell their mom to buy it for them when they could get several other types of games for the same price.

But unlike software, you dont buy the hardware often. I got quite new stick, but rest is 3-5 year old. Some purchase sticks, pedals and throttles for exceptional price to be sure they have highest possible quality and can use them as long as possible. However it has nothing to do with a product you are buying, from my perspective you pay certain amount of money for the quality of the product, and what it offers. Considering that less than 4 months passed since BoS was launched I am a bit confused with the news as they work on a new product.

And while new product will be new, it will offer 10 new aircraft, new map and possibly some other features about which we know nothing yet. However, it will posses already the same engine and mechanics as BoS, in multiple ways it will share the same solutions as BoS - so price of 100 $ for the product which largely is influenced or simply based on previous one would not be proper.

 

I also would like to point your tactless ending, the amount of money one may spend on the peripherals does not reflect the hardcore simmer. It reflects a guy who can afford them and does not want to spend them on other things. The hardcore flight simmer from my perspective is the one who spends a lot of time in flight and dedicates a lot of his privacy to that hobby, which has less to do with amount of money spent on hardware but more with skill and passion. I can recall many  of the folks starting their flight adventures with some cheap stick, or maybe something more known as ... Thrustmaster T16000 and still flying on it. 

 

 

 

 

But anyway, coming back to BoM I was wondering about timeframe. P-40 E arrived to USSR somewhere around April 1942 and were introduced into the units, such as 126 IAP in May 1942. Earlier there were only Tomahawks, so P-40B or C. At the very same time (practically since December 1941) there were arriving Aircobra I fighters (specifically P-39 D-2 with 20 mm Hispano Suiza, two .50 caliber machines guns in the nose and four .303 caliber machine guns in the wings), first unit to receive them was 153rd IAP (in March 1942) which went into combat on 10th June. 
This timeframe is really interesting and gives a lot of opportunities to show some earlier warbirds :)

Edited by =LD=Hiromachi

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The cost of BoS is in line with most other games these days. $60 base or $100 deluxe is normal. IMO flight sims give you a great value in $/hour of entertainment. Most games you're done with after 20-40 hours. I've got hundreds of hours of fun out of these sims. I think RoF actually saved me money.

Edited by SharpeXB

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confused on how unlocks and that mess will work, transfering over....say i buy 8 planes not the 10 of bom...will bos premium owners have option to unlock bom unlocks if not premium edition of bom?

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. Most games you're done with after 20-40 hours.

 

Not sure where you are getting that from, I got way more hours than that in several of my current flight sims, that I am still flying.

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Not sure where you are getting that from, I got way more hours than that in several of my current flight sims, that I am still flying.

 

Actually that's what he said, he says that other types of games might be done in 20-40 hours.

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Not sure where you are getting that from, I got way more hours than that in several of my current flight sims, that I am still flying.

That`s exactly what SarpeXB is saying. He gets hundreds of hours of fun out of his sims in contrast to other games. ;)

(Ricky faster than me)

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I have more then 244 hours in King of fighters 13 on steam.. and only played 5 matches online.. and forgot all moves and combos by now.. so I'd need another 200h to get back in shape :rolleyes:
I never get games that are 'over' in less the 100 hours.

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Considering BoM is likely months away, $100 isn't an amount most couldn't set aside in a reasonable amount of time. I wouldn't skip buying the kids food or paying the bills but a few bucks saved each week should be easier to handle than laying out a large sum. I'm sure most of us waste more money than we care to admit.

Edited by Rjel

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That`s exactly what SarpeXB is saying. He gets hundreds of hours of fun out of his sims in contrast to other games. ;)

(Ricky faster than me)

 

Ah ok, I misread that then, my bad...

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So you don't care about those who only have a joystick?  Oh my .....

 

You took that out of context..

 

Please re-read what I wrote and note I went on to qualify that statement by saying 'and only play flight sims when all the Quake servers are full' Translated, not serious flight simmers.

 

Those are the types I don't care about. Hope that helps!

 

But unlike software, you dont buy the hardware often.

 

Maybe for guys who buy all sorts of games..

 

But not me, I don't buy that many games, For the most part I have one first person shooter (ARMAIII) and the rest are flight sims, DCS, ROF, IL2 BoS. I tend up updated my PC every two years and my video card every year. So your analogy does not fit me and is probably true of allot of the old timer hard core flight simmers like me.

 

I think the only game I bought in the last year that was not a flight sim or FPS was that Aliens game..

 

I think I played it for a couple of hours and than got board of it.. I only got it because I like the movie series and thought maybe this would be good too, it wasn't.

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Comment by loft on the Russian side of the forums. Moscow will be on the map, but some clarification about what he means would be nice.

 

"No, he just thinks we're smart enough that would not do anything stupid. And yes, he is absolutely right. Moscow on the map will be, but it will not turn out to bomb."

 

Does this mean Moscow will be indestructible or will we simply be unable to drop bomb over Moscow? 

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More interesting stuff over on the Russian boards than here as usual :rolleyes: .  I wish they'd give us some sort of précis on what the devs say over there.

 

Got a link, Liz?

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Do we have any timeframe att all for the completions of BoM months, half a year, a year, more? Always more info on the russian side of the forums!

Edited by Pigmachine

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I realize there are some cross overs from other games that may only have a joystick and only play flight sims when the all the Quake servers are full.. But I personally don't care about those types..

 

Pricing is totally up to the dev/publishers in the end but I was under the impression that at one point at least some of the decisions around BoS were explained as trying to increase the player base as the hard-core flight sim group alone wasn't enough. That may have changed.

 

For someone like me with broader gaming tastes, although not fitting your degoratory stereotype, price is a major consideration. There's much more competition for my money. I'm fine with a premium price for a version cattering to the hard-core flight simmers but for me there will need to be some sort of price concession. At this point despite my previous objection to the unlock system I'd take that cheap version the Russian player base apparently got with full unlocks.

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Not sure where you are getting that from, I got way more hours than that in several of my current flight sims, that I am still flying.

Other games like shooters ie Call of Duty

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Well, I must say you've really made my day.

 

You have:

 

- Got rid of the stupid unlocks but kept in 'something' to grind for (skins) which I think is the perfect compromise.

- Introduced loads of new content and rejuvenated the community, always good!

- Shown a real understanding (compatibility) of your users.

 

I'm truthfully and utterly impressed, this seems like a complete reversal on the defensive approach to your community in the past and I can't wait to enjoy the series more.

 

Well done guys, these were the best decisions you could make! - Thanks!

 

:)

 

You ain't seen nothin yet... ;)

 

I'm wondering what the price of BoM will be.  Bos is currently out of my price range, but if both games were included in the $68/$110 (the canadian dollar is quite low currently :unsure:) price tag, it wouldn't be hard to justify a purchase.

 

However, if offered at the same price, these games would be far, far too expensive for the average IL-2 fan. Can anyone help me out with this?

 

I doubt if BoM will be much lower than BoS... and truth be told.. the pricing is fair. I think a lot of folks look at this wrong. If you stashed $20-$30 a pay period say as an arbitrary figure.. in 2-3 pay periods you would be able to afford BoS Standard. In 3-5 pay periods you would be able to afford Premium. I dunno maybe it is me.. but I cannot afford many of the things that I want right off the bat either.. but when I see something that interests me whether it is a guitar or an amp.. or whatever.. I count the cost.. and start to save for it. Sometimes it takes a few weeks .. sometimes a few months ... but IMO you MUST be good to yourself.. and if saving to do that is the only option you have then soi be it.. but be good to yourself.

 

Will BoM have separate webpage?

 

I doubt it .. BoM will be an expansion of BoS...

 

The cost of BoS is in line with most other games these days. $60 base or $100 deluxe is normal. IMO flight sims give you a great value in $/hour of entertainment. Most games you're done with after 20-40 hours. I've got hundreds of hours of fun out of these sims. I think RoF actually saved me money.

 

Indeed...   Actually Sharpe you said a mouthful here...  At this point IL2 has been the best entertainment bang for the buck for me ever hands down....

 

confused on how unlocks and that mess will work, transfering over....say i buy 8 planes not the 10 of bom...will bos premium owners have option to unlock bom unlocks if not premium edition of bom?

 

I think that is how it will work. I think it will be basically like BoS is now.. If you buy premium you can bypass the unlocks.. if you by Standard you will have to grind for the unlocks in the 8 planes you get.. To me that makes premium an even better buy. Two more aircraft.. (one I am SO looking forward to... :biggrin:  P-40 cough cough..) and no grinding for unlocks. No brainer. If I had my way about it there would be no unlocks for anything.. but I can dig that the dev's have a plan and it is their baby.. With custom skins already doable.. grinding for skins won't be so bad.. and since I have a choice it is a n o brainer.

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Notably, the db601&5 left a very visible dark exhaust trail when the throttle was increased. So much so, that intercepting 109s were often first id'd by american fighter escort pilots via their exhaust smoke plumes, as they climbed to meet the bomber stream.

 

TIFWIW

 

 

 

 

http://www.warbirdsforum.com/topic/3824-is-it-normal-for-bf-109-exhaust-smoke-to-be-visible/?p=29750

 

"Yes, a noticeable trail of thick black smoke when the throttle was abruptly opened was a trademark of Daimler Benz DB60x engines. It was a result of two features shared by these engines: fluid coupling of the supercharger transmission and direct fuel injection. 

Advantages of fluid coupling (similar to a torque converter in automotive automatic transmissions) included: a limited range of continuously variable transmission ratio between the lower and the higher supercharger speed, and torsional vibration damping for the impeller. Its disadvantage was a certain inertia. When the engine rpm suddenly increased, it took a moment for supercharger impeller to catch up.

 

Fuel injection meant that the amount of fuel applied was proportional to throttle settings, and – unlike suction carburetors – insensitive to momentary drops of air pressure supplied by the supercharger.

 

All together it meant that when the throttle lever was sharply pushed forward, the amount of fuel supplied to the piston charge increased instantly, while the amount of supercharged air increased slower (until the supercharger impeller revved up). As a result, the mixture became excessively rich, with unburned fuel producing black smoke.

 

This behavior was misleading for Allied pilots – their engines did not usually act like this. It lead to many false victory claims (though probably made in good faith). Allied aircraft engines in the first part of war relied on purely mechanical (geared) supercharger transmissions and suction carburetors (later also injection carburetors). Fluid coupling and direct fuel injection were implemented on a limited scale only towards the end of WWII."

Nicely explained there venturi.

 

If that what you say was modelled that would be a great edition. :biggrin:

 

 

There will be unlocks and they will be skippable for premium accounts.

 

Nice but I won't be skipping them as I am a masochist LOL :wacko:  

Edited by voncrapenhauser

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Do we have any timeframe att all for the completions of BoM months, half a year, a year, more? Always more info on the russian side of the forums!

 

12 months or so. Of course, Early Access program will begin before that. You won't have to wait 12 months to be in the cockpit of the new planes. Just like with BOS.

 

Jason

Interesting, also I'm curious if whole Moscow will be on the map or only part of it. But certainly it will be interesting to see how it looked at that time :)

 

Not sure it will be on the map, but I have not discussed the details with Loft yet. Since the Germans did not reach Moscow proper I am not sure it is necessary.

 

Jason

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Not sure it will be on the map, but I have not discussed the details with Loft yet. Since the Germans did not reach Moscow proper I am not sure it is necessary.

 

Jason

Jason, the ground forces didn't reach it. But air forces did, Luftwaffe dropped quite a bit of ordnance there including incendiary bombs.   

Besides, it would be simply shame not to see the Moscow. I mean, its like the CloD would not include the London (and we know German tanks didnt make it through La Manche). I hope you understand what I mean :)

And Moscow at that time had some unique appearance, which we cant see now so I would be simply glad for seeing it in game.

 

Hiro

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12 months or so. Of course, Early Access program will begin before that. You won't have to wait 12 months to be in the cockpit of the new planes. Just like with BOS.

 

Jason

 

 

Not sure it will be on the map, but I have not discussed the details with Loft yet. Since the Germans did not reach Moscow proper I am not sure it is necessary.

 

Jason

They reached the outskirts of Moscow IIRC, and made several air raids on the city…but it's true that most of the action took place outside the city, so maybe it's not necessary to have it fully modeled…still visit squadrons will need some airbase farther from the center. Edited by SYN_Ricky

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