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ITAF_F_Baracca

FM ?.....where is it?

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Hi all!

 

I follow the flight simulator games from long time,Falcon 4-Lock On-DCS-IL2, and of course i was curious to test even this one for my enjoy time but....it's hard to belive that a game like this one could be called...simulator!

I dont wont to be polemic, but honestly, BoS can be see maybe as a evolution about War of Thunder game (that mind Arcade 100%),but so far about what was IL2 1946, and still less to Cliff of Dover whit Team Fusion mod.

Infact i have the distinct feeling that the Flying Model about of these airplanes is just a copy and paste of what we can see in RoF,whit a rewrite about the top speed...that's all!

We know that german plane as BF-109 and FW-190 get different tactics engage abour a Yak or Mig,but that dosent mind that they have to be so invalid to maneuver!...it's a pity.

 

Where it's gone the lift forces that imprints the air in a plane whit that power engine and wing size?

Why that instability flight as if they were leaves in the wind in every situation and speed?..Leaf or Kite effect?

 

Maybe the answer it's still a game in WIP....but i dont belived that you wont follow the simulator way..but the mainstream game!

 

Regards

Edited by ITAF_Baracca

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The FM?

 

it is in the game.

Hi

 

Can you explain to me from whic historic documentation did you developed this.....FM?...plz!

I dont think that your partner ship,Oleg Maddox with his historical archive , can get the same opinion about this planes.

Because in my 15 years experencie i never see that unbelived FM....if we talking about something close to the real flight....of course!

Edited by ITAF_Baracca

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"I dont wont to be polemic, but honestly, BoS can be see maybe as a evolution about War of Thunder game ..."

 

 

 

 

 

Are we supposed to take this seriously?  It's like me saying "you're an arsehole but don't take that personally."

 

Buddy, they're all games, some are just a little more involved than others.  As far as the FM goes, it compares favourably to any other title you care to mention.  If you don't much like Bos then I suggest you play something else.

Edited by Wulf
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Are we supposed to take this seriously?  It's like me saying "you're an arsehole but don't take that personally."

 

Buddy, they're all games, some are just a little more involved than others.  As far as the FM goes, it compares favourably to any other title you care to mention.  If you don't much like Bos then I suggest you play something else.

 

 

See..answer like this one it's just another agree that when somebody dosent get solid argument about something or he dosent know what they talking about it.....say exactly what you say!

 

Anyway...thx for agree my friend!

Edited by ITAF_Baracca
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flight simulator games from long time,Falcon 4-Lock On-DCS-IL2

 

So your experience comes from other (old) Sims? Great

Clearly you have never piloted or flown a propeller plane in real life. So your odd declaration above is pretty much worthless. If you don't like the game, move back to your other beloved ones

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So your experience comes from other (old) Sims? Great

Clearly you have never piloted or flown a propeller plane in real life. So your odd declaration above is pretty much worthless. If you don't like the game, move back to your other beloved ones

Are you sure to 100% about what you saied?...about that i never piloted a real plane?...I think that you are entrying in something a little bit outside your competence!

I never say it about you....but you are sure that you are here the only one the he has flight a real plane.

 

Ok.......givme your lesson about pilot...and later i will give the mine poor experience.and....who never know ...may be you can teach me something !

 

And just in case...i have just express a opinion whitout offend nobody, and the only your answer it has been a standard comment from steam forum gamer...compliment!

 

Good luck whit your software house,it's will be a pleasure to move back...dont worry!

 

Regards

Edited by ITAF_Baracca

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So, Celestiale, have you ever flown an 1100+ BHP warbird, other than in War Thunder or this sim?

 

Just asking.

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So, Celestiale, have you ever flown an 1100+ BHP warbird, other than in War Thunder or this sim?

 

Just asking.

Yes DCS, 1946, CloD

And IRL i flew (not piloted!) with a Antonov-An3 (1450PS), so i know pretty much how it feels :) wobbly, even as passenger. You feel any slightest turbulation

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There is a pretty steep learning curve when first coming to BOS, even for experienced simmers and real life pilots. The planes feel extremely sensitive for a pretty long time until you put some serious hours into flying and playing with axis sensitivities in settings.

 

My advice is don't give up until you have at least 15 hours or so practicing with a plane in quick missions. I honestly didn't feel comfortable with the game/sim (whichever it is) until about 30 hours in. After that it started to really come together for me and actually feel really good for the most part. Over modeling of Russian FMs/ 190 under performance being the only FM complaints I have currently...now after 50+ hours in.

 

And just to say it I am both a simmer and real life pilot (single engine VFR).

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There are still basic FM errors ingame that have been present for long time but most simply got used to them. I agree with the OP that some planes (namely the 109) are still too unstable around the pitch axis in midflight. They should handle a tiny bit more nose heavy to be fine.

 

Still, if we leave this (and many other errors you didn't mention) out, BoS has a very decent FM and weather simulation allowing you to fly in a dynamic medium like in no other sim. Sure, turbulences and winds have been modeled for ages now, but no sim reaches the distinctive and fascinating feel as BoS in this regard, which is a major + for me.

 

Since this seems to end up in an expirience clash I'll leave it short: 62 hrs IRL glider piloting, UL expirience, DCS P-51+Dora, Clod, some IL-2 1946.

Edited by Stab/JG26_5tuka

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Back on-topic (kinda): You'll have a difficult time finding the documentation the devs used. It's a popular complaint: "Why don't we see which documents the devs used? They probably just made the FM's up"

 

The reason for the devs not posting the official documents they used is that many of them are purchased from state archives. Putting them online (for free) would be illegal. The last thing 1CGS need is a court-case/fine just to convince yet another FM critic.

 

Oh and your arcade game argument....do you even own this game? I mean really...it's hard to take you seriously when you come up with gibberish like that. Just because the FM's feel different from previous games (hint: next gen.) doesn't mean it's arcade. 

Edited by 19te.Leaf

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Just because it is different or more difficult  also doesn't mean that it is the better simulation of flying.

 

Funny are the "whack a mole" responses that the OP got. :) :) :)

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To me the OP sounds like a troll out to get a certain response. He could very well read the dozens of threads on this topic but decides to create a new one. 

 

As for the FM being able to account for every aerodynamic effect on the aircraft, no its impossible. If a Flight sim company manages to crack it i'm sure NASA would love to know about it. 

 

As for it being better then the older sims, of course it is. The computing power now available compared to golden oldies is much more powerful and the devs are able to put in more variables in order to get a more realistic flight model. Is it perfect, no its no,t but its the closest we will get apart from owning and flying our own ww2 warbirds.

 

I'm generally happy with the result the devs have managed to achieve, although there is still some tweaks required for some aircraft i think its a bloody good sim and is the best out there. 

 

So OP take the plunge and find out for yourself you wont be disappointed (or maybe you will depending on your expectations).

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and the strategic game of forum flaming war goes on

 

the 109 shakes because you pull too much the stick

 

more is less

 

the future is the past

 

heat dont go away cool enters

  • Upvote 1

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How is BoS FM compared to DCS (Dora or Kurfürst) FM?

Very different, at least to the Dora. As I said planes in BoS, especially the 109, still feel too tail heavy. That's not the cas ein DCS, where the Dora actually requires nearly full uptrim to stay up in a landing approach.

 

Combine a DCS FM with the dynamic wheater simuation of BoS and all your dreams come true so to say :) Until than BoS will remain a 2 bladed sword.

Edited by Stab/JG26_5tuka

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How is BoS FM compared to DCS (Dora or Kurfürst) FM?

On par (if not better), and ground handling is way better in BOS too.

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Come on guys, it' quite obvious that [Edited]         

Agree, 100%...

Edited by Bearcat

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I realy like DCS for their jet simulaitons and choppermodules, regarding special effects for each, But the engine is crap. Bad performance even on top notch computer (offcorse in comparison, not at all), graphics worse esp. the terrain with their wallpaper like textures, high price for single module with different quality so no overall high standard in MP. 

No question, there is no better sim for jets and chopper and soon dcs 2.0 might improve performance , grafics. But the flightmodel for wwii does not fit the purpose. DCS is for system heavy modern combat with complex interdepence. 

 

IL 2 got the greater immersion esp due to the fact how their FM works. The feeling of the plane bouncing through the wind and the increasing wingload in high g maneuver. There is no game where you can "feel" the raw nature of a prop driven plane in the sky. Every pilot will confirm that in DCS the planes feel like on tracks. The overall feeling of the plane going up and down, left and right, shaking of the engine, the creak of the wing when pulling acrobatic maneuvers. Only in BoS - I - can experience this.  Might be true that some planes could or should behave in a slightly different way. But who are we to judge, since most people here never flown one of these planes it is total unimportant if they THINK its wrong modeled or not. I got the chance to fly an american warbird, and now see .... in dcs the plane feels complet wrong. That said... i will never care about ww2 in dcs and people who try to tell me "THAT GAME does a far better job" 

 

Who cares about the data? Your plain is climbing slower than the reference ?! maybe you are too fat, or the testpilot was, our you got to many patches on your plane and it was to often repaired. Maybe its just old and on certain rpm the engine wants to die (ever considered that? its not modelled in any flight game but in reality you know that YOUR special plane got its idiosyncrasies you as a pilot have to compensate. A loose stick, heavy flapslider, some times not working gyro, less oilpressure, water condensation etc etc).

 

In the end you just can decide if you like the overall feeling and setting of your favorite flightsim. And then enjoy. 

 

And I love IL 2 !

Edited by =]VLA[=Ravonmith

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Come on guys, it' quite obvious that [Edited]

The simulations change, Baracca stays the same.

Edited by Bearcat
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Make a judgment is granted in any democratic forum, provided that it is expressed in a correct way and respectful.

So, again, if i have compared a title played by many players as the War Thunder was not an offense against anyone.

It's a fun title where the graphics are decent and can give certain emotions for those who dont aspire to titles too niche without being pretentious in simulation.

In fact I said it could be an evolution of it, and then with a dose of simulation that has not other title.

 

It's true,different flight simulators games cant give, whit the same planes, the same feeling.

 

And for this reason i have express my opinion for what i feel about the FM in BoS.

Of course you can agree or not about what i saied,but call me troll just for a different opinion about the your.... it's mind that your IQ borders on that of a seaweed!

 

Regards

Edited by ITAF_Baracca

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Okay. you have expressed your opinion.
Now what do you expect from this thread?

tell us what it is you want, because i too am sick and tired of the little insults everywhere.

tell us what you want.
then Reallize you can not expect that what you want from the community that you speak to.
because we can not change anything.

so you have to gather your Data and speak via PM to a Developper, in order to "prove" your point with data, and then hope the devteam changes it a bit more like you want.

 

==============================

 

 

The first thing to understand, is that the Public forum is not the place for this.
The first thing to understand , if you want change, is to find out who are the people that can give you change.

So please, if you are not happy, expressing this in public will not bring change, will not make you happy.

 

So there is
A) you failed to talk to the right people [devteam]
B) you do not really want change, but only express your unhappyness.


I do not know which is dumber, but dumb it is.

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Make a judgment is granted in any democratic form, provided that it is expressed in a correct way and respectful.

So, again, have compared a title played by many players as the War of Thunder was not an offense against anyone.

It's a fun title where the graphics are decent and can give certain emotions for those who dont aspire to titles too niche without being pretentious in simulation.

In fact I said it could be an evolution of it, and then with a dose of simulation that has not other title.

 

It's true,five flight simulators cant give, whit the same planes, the same feeling.

 

And for this reason i have express my opinion for what i feel about the FM in BoS.

Of course you can agree or not about what i saied,but call me troll just for a opinion different about the your.... it's mind that your IQ it's so....so poor!

 

Regards

 

 

Frankly speaking, when I see your opinion about BOS, mainly in relation with the old IL-2 1946, right from quick reading, yes you seems like a Troll!!

 

I am regular user of DCS and CLIFF OF DOVER and does not find so great différences in the FM, some small things of course, as usualy with all games-simulators (devs feeling/documentation) but how to compare a FW-190 D9 with an A3 or  a BF109 K4 with BF109 E4 or BF109 F4?????

 

But the amazement of your post comes from the comparison between old IL-2 1946 and BOS!!!!!  I was Flying IL-2 1946 from 15 years ago (from beginning in fact) and if you think that IL-2 1946 is more accurate in FM terms, there are two solutions:

 

You never tried BOS despite of your words!!!!!!!!!!!   or you are a Troll!!!.................. Please choose between both!!

 

Anyway, if I try a game and that does not please me, I will not waste my time posting unnecessarily I'll go back to other games ...... that's what you'd do.

 

Do not worry, posts like yours, today, are coming up every two or three days............. we usually now.

 

 

 

 

 

 
 
 
Saisissez du texte, l'adresse d'un site Web ou importez un document à traduire.
 

 

 
 

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I'm just waiting for him to sell me viagra or tell me he's a Nigerian prince that needs some help with a transaction where i will get 1405000$ pounds in English currency... as this is the same type of writing :P

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Okay. you have expressed your opinion.

Now what do you expect from this thread?

tell us what it is you want, because i too am sick and tired of the little insults everywhere.

 

tell us what you want.

then Reallize you can not expect that what you want from the community that you speak to.

because we can not change anything.

 

so you have to gather your Data and speak via PM to a Developper, in order to "prove" your point with data, and then hope the devteam changes it a bit more like you want.

 

==============================

 

 

The first thing to understand, is that the Public forum is not the place for this.

The first thing to understand , if you want change, is to find out who are the people that can give you change.

So please, if you are not happy, expressing this in public will not bring change, will not make you happy.

 

So there is

A) you failed to talk to the right people [devteam]

B) you do not really want change, but only express your unhappyness.

 

 

I do not know which is dumber, but dumb it is.

 

 

A) I didnt know that this forum ,because is pubblic,you can not say what i think as customer!.....normally is not the opposite?

 

B) When i dont like a post, or i am not intresting about it,i am not  feel obliged to intervene,but if i do it,i dont wont take the moderator job and say to somebody else what he must to do, and you have to do the same thing! :)

 

C) It's just a game...we talking about a simple videogame and you are so angry for it?

    For me to play whit videogames is just a hobby,nothing more...and for you?

 

Frankly speaking, when I see your opinion about BOS, mainly in relation with the old IL-2 1946, right from quick reading, yes you seems like a Troll!!

 

I am regular user of DCS and CLIFF OF DOVER and does not find so great différences in the FM, some small things of course, as usualy with all games-simulators (devs feeling/documentation) but how to compare a FW-190 D9 with an A3 or  a BF109 K4 with BF109 E4 or BF109 F4?????

 

But the amazement of your post comes from the comparison between old IL-2 1946 and BOS!!!!!  I was Flying IL-2 1946 from 15 years ago (from beginning in fact) and if you think that IL-2 1946 is more accurate in FM terms, there are two solutions:

 

You never tried BOS despite of your words!!!!!!!!!!!   or you are a Troll!!!.................. Please choose between both!!

 

Anyway, if I try a game and that does not please me, I will not waste my time posting unnecessarily I'll go back to other games ...... that's what you'd do.

 

Do not worry, posts like yours, today, are coming up every two or three days............. we usually now.

 

 

 

 

 

 
 
 
 
Saisissez du texte, l'adresse d'un site Web ou importez un document à traduire.
 

 

 
 

 

 

Ok...i chose...you are a great [Edited]!

Do you feel better now my friend?

[Edited]....but you are complety out!

Edited by Bearcat

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You, are one of 100.000 that have said similar things. You bring absolutely nothing new to the eternal FM debates.

Had you taken 5 minutes if your intelligence, you would have realized that fact.

No. you can not say what you want - you say what the Moderators allow you to say.
for example calling Pips Moron is an insult, something you are not allowed to.

 

ah!
C) you are the kind of person who ruins the fun and his own credibility.

"Wrooong FMMMM!" and no Data to prove anything - that is the simplest thing in the world.

 

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This is an obviously provocative post but let's all step away from the name calling shall we gents. The facts speak for themselves. This poster is entitled to his opinion even if many, myself included think it is incorrect and the poster's motive suspect.based on the posts. Don't feed it and it won't grow.

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I.m sorry , Is it me but I can't see exactly what his argument is actually saying?.

 

As a RL pilot it is my opinion that the FM in BOS is the best I have seen so far to date.

 

I am not saying it is perfect, but it is a SIMULATION and as such will never truly represent real flight.

 

That said BOS is on the whole a enjoyable game and at present the best representation of ww2 flying.

 

IMO the FM on some aircraft just needs a tweak here and there, but to claim it is wholly wrong is misleading at best. 

 

I can not or will not compare other games of this ilk as they are chalk and cheese and also not real flight, so what is the point?

 

Whatever his point? he is entitled to his opinion.

Edited by voncrapenhauser

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But if there is no point, why bother to say something, anything?
What is the "PURPOSE", what is the "GOAL" of threads like these?
 

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@voncrapenhauser                      Yes, you are right, but when some come here for the sole purpose of destroying the image of this simulator, all clear and honest arguments have no control over them !! their only goal ..... to destroy this game .....

 

I've never seen it on this scale !! we must believe that the BOS project disturbs many people....

 

 

@ITAF_Baracca                       You are from, right now, in my long list of "ignored"

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What is the purpose of the suppression of opinions?

 

If one doesn't likes a thread, ignore it.

 

It's that easy, no tantrums, no name calling, no problems.

 

If one feels the need to answer, he/she/it should respect the opinion of the other one and argue in a civilized way.

 

If a opinion seems unchangeable, call it a day and leave, as nothing will change a perceived wrong on the internet.

 

Oh, by the way, never will bad publicity be able to "destroy" a good game in this niche full of experts.

 

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me"

Edited by I./ZG15_robtek
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Guys i would like to say some thing . there is no need to slate some one if they have a question , over flight modeling .

 

You the BOS  community   are loosing people every day .

 

Be carful  you just never know who you are slating he might come back and bite you in the ass.

 

Show some repect .

 

Edit ....... i am finding less and less people to fly with ,  in this sim / game as it is .

Edited by II./JG77_Con
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But if there is no point, why bother to say something, anything?

What is the "PURPOSE", what is the "GOAL" of threads like these?

 

I'm not sure either TBH.

What is the purpose of the suppression of opinions?

 

If one doesn't likes a thread, ignore it.

 

It's that easy, no tantrums, no name calling, no problems.

 

If one feels the need to answer, he/she/it should respect the opinion of the other one and argue in a civilized way.

 

If a opinion seems unchangeable, call it a day and leave, as nothing will change a perceived wrong on the internet.

 

Oh, by the way, never will bad publicity be able to "destroy" a good game in this niche full of experts.

 

"Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me"

+1

Exactly.

@voncrapenhauser                      Yes, you are right, but when some come here for the sole purpose of destroying the image of this simulator, all clear and honest arguments have no control over them !! their only goal ..... to destroy this game .....

 

I've never seen it on this scale !! we must believe that the BOS project disturbs many people....

 

 

@ITAF_Baracca                       You are from, right now, in my long list of "ignored"

+1

Agreed .Trolling pure and simple.

But it's his opinion I think. 

Guys i would like to say some thing . there is no need to slate some one if they have a question , over flight modeling .

 

You the BOS  community   are loosing people every day .

 

Be carful  you just never know who you are slating he might come back and bite you in the ass.

 

Show some repect .

 

Edit ....... i am finding less and less people to fly with ,  in this sim / game as it is .

+1

Edited by voncrapenhauser
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Okay. you have expressed your opinion.

Now what do you expect from this thread?

tell us what it is you want, because i too am sick and tired of the little insults everywhere.

 

tell us what you want.

then Reallize you can not expect that what you want from the community that you speak to.

because we can not change anything.

 

so you have to gather your Data and speak via PM to a Developper, in order to "prove" your point with data, and then hope the devteam changes it a bit more like you want.

==============================

The first thing to understand, is that the Public forum is not the place for this.

The first thing to understand , if you want change, is to find out who are the people that can give you change.

So please, if you are not happy, expressing this in public will not bring change, will not make you happy.

 

So there is

A) you failed to talk to the right people [devteam]

B) you do not really want change, but only express your unhappyness.

 

That will not make them go away. This is a flight sim forum. ;)

 

The devs read these threads.. I can only imagine how they will respond to this one.. but someone will read it.

 

He can just gather his data and post it on this forum.. but to be taken seriously he will have to gather his data first..... and perhaps work on getting his point across with a little more tact and clarity.

 

This is the place for this. It is all just in the delivery.

 

Neither you nor anyone else can claim to know the OP's motives.. even if they seem to be obvious.

 

But if there is no point, why bother to say something, anything?

What is the "PURPOSE", what is the "GOAL" of threads like these?

 

 

Who knows.... It could be to sincerely express an opinion. It could be just to stir the pot. It could be a poster from another forum just trying to get a rise and test the waters... but the bottom line is ... 

 

However.....

 

None of us can claim to know his motives, even if they appear to be rather obvious to us.. we could be wrong and secondly he has the right to post here like you and everyone else and he is entitled to his opinion.

 

I.m sorry , Is it me but I can't see exactly what his argument is actually saying?.

As a RL pilot it is my opinion that the FM in BOS is the best I have seen so far to date.

I am not saying it is perfect, but it is a SIMULATION and as such will never truly represent real flight.

That said BOS is on the whole a enjoyable game and at present the best representation of ww2 flying.

IMO the FM on some aircraft just needs a tweak here and there, but to claim it is wholly wrong is misleading at best.

I can not or will not compare other games of this ilk as they are chalk and cheese and also not real flight, so what is the point?

 

Whatever his point? he is entitled to his opinion.

 

This....

 

Look guys... every sim has/had it's detractors and it's advocates. If you do not like what the OP has posted stop responding to it. This sim is what it is...and it will be what it is till it ain't. For more folks than not it is an enjoyable piece of kit and even a few hundred unsatisfied customers will not "destroy" it... The only thing that can destroy this sim is the sim itself and those who have created and I for one believe that that is not their goal.. so .. we all need to just lighten up.. and see how this all pans out and enjoy it.. or not.. for now.

 

Don't feed it and it won't grow.

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OP is obviously one of the [Edited] who are bashing this game on every forums they can find. Probably banned from this forum, he comes back with a new nickname and email address.

Always the same arguments, again and again, posted exactly by the same people, always in the same terms... How many are they? Not more than 10, maybe less. Provoking the moderators, sending to them insults by PM, and then whining to be banned here on other forums, talking about free speech, about official forum "heavily censored", and so on...

"Arcade game, not a sim, FM, gnagnagna...". Always, always, the same complaints, always in the same terms. They look like very old people losing their mind.

The BoS SimHQ forum looks like a psychiatric (or geriatric?) hospital. Most of them has conquested the place...

I do not understand what they want. They don't like the game? Perfect, they can do something else with their live... Why are they spending so much time on forums, instead of actually playing flight sims? It is beyond my understanding...

Edited by Bearcat
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