Jump to content
Sokol1

VKB Gladiator joystick project

Recommended Posts

Just received mine yesterday and was wondering about the software, Wizzo i believe its called.  I cannot find it and it is not where the instruction manual tells me where to download it, which is at vkb-sims/support/programs. Any help? Still in development? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is not a review. It is an Amazon affiliate who is just writing out of his ass to generate clicks. Absolutely no one has an actual Glad Pro unit anywhere outside of VKB.

 

Jason

 

Welcome to the wonderful world of blogging.

 

The fact that this "review" doesn't even feature any pictures that aren't official VKB pics should be a strong hint that something is amiss.

 

"Journalism" these days seems to consist mostly of re-writing press releases and/or technical data-sheets and calling that a "review".

 

 

 

S.

Edited by 1Sascha
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just received mine yesterday and was wondering about the software, Wizzo i believe its called.  I cannot find it and it is not where the instruction manual tells me where to download it, which is at vkb-sims/support/programs. Any help? Still in development? 

 

 

In Russian forum is say that WIZZO still in beta and should be released in next weeks.

 

Will be a simplified version of VKB Device Config, basically for calibration, invert axis, set deadzones and test purpose, maybe without buttons programmability (not sure).

 

http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/download/file.php?id=3942&mode=view

 

BTW - Gladiator come with a programmation made with IL-2 BOS in mind.

 

The mode button change the grip top buttons function (the lower front button is "shift"), but not the base buttons.

 

Trigger in mode 1 is button 14, with shift button pressed (the pink button) is 15.

In mode 2 is button 16, with shift button pressed is 17.

 

Example of possible use:

In mode 1 trigger fire MG, if press "shift" fire MG + cannon (or use the top button to fire cannon individually and press both simultaneous).

In mode 2 trigger fire rocket, if press "shift" drop bombs.

What give a good usability for only 2 buttons (trigger and top button).

Of course will be need assign this buttons, 14,15,16,17 in game controls for this functions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jason, Just got my Gladiator today and I'm Thrilled. Obviously the Wizzo software isn't finished but I went into the key mapping for Il2 BOS/BOM and set up my throttle etc. I have Saitak Pro rudder pedal and they work with it well but yours seem much nicer. I don't miss the MSFFB2 and the controls are much nicer on this stick.
 
GREAT job Well worth the $99!

Edited by skline00

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gladiator "guts" - their gimbal is made in glass fiber reinforced plastic (similar to how is made in CH sticks, as well how work their "pincer" mechanism):
 
post-979-0-23647900-1468644678.jpg
 
"Twitst rudder" - notice the MaRS PCB above base pole instead the cheap potentiometer common to other joysticks.
 
post-979-0-54513300-1468644664.jpg
 
Comparison with Cobra M-5 gimbal - showing the "damper" effect of Gladiator gimbal:
 


 
More info: http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/4607-gladiator-v-voprosah-i-otvetah/
 
"Translation" with GT there:
 
http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2844163&postcount=94
 
WIZZO is available for download:
 
post-979-0-90692300-1468646771.jpg
 
http://ftp.vkb-sim.pro/Programms/wizzo.zip
 
 
BTW - For "non faint of the heart" people  :biggrin: , here a (user made) profile that add MODE1 and MODE 2 to base buttons allowing use 50 functions in joystick 15 physical buttons (not counting the pinkie button, used as  "shift") and HAT.   :) 
 
http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2843296&postcount=13 Edited by Sokol1
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh wow.. it's actually listed on amazon.com...

 

Thanks for that comparison video of the self-centering force. Hmm... looks too weak for my taste. I guess I'll have to wait a bit longer.. :D

 

 

 

 

S.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think the reaction you see is in the video due to weak spring centering but due to the lubricant used which dampens the stick movement for a more "realistic" feel.
 
Anyway, the Gladiator Pro and Gunfighter will incooperate stronger springs if that's what you want.
 
Question: Will the Gladiator Pro also incooperate a lubricant related axis dampening mechanic?

Edited by 6./ZG26_5tuka

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Question: Will the Gladiator Pro also incooperate a lubricant related axis dampening mechanic?

 

No, different mechanics, and concepts - the CAM gimbal is more suitable for the people in their "quest for the fell simulator":biggrin: 

Anyway, answer to this question there:  http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/4607-gladiator-v-voprosah-i-otvetah/?do=findComment&comment=432530

 

In ED forum some guys are talking in incorporate external damper for their Mamba Mk.III.

This need be done in joystick pole and not in gimbal, maybe using motorcycle steering dampers.

Edited by Sokol1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does wizzo have any benefit for me as a VKB rudder t-peddal mk II user, can I use it to setup the virtual toe brakes ?

 

Also I can seem to find any instructions on how to change the centering cam for the t-rudder mkII, is it possible for this model ?

 

I found stuff for how to do it on mk III and IV but not for mk II.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh wow.. it's actually listed on amazon.com...

 

Thanks for that comparison video of the self-centering force. Hmm... looks too weak for my taste. I guess I'll have to wait a bit longer.. :D

 

 

 

 

S.

I like the this kind of spring back looks more realistic to me..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does wizzo have any benefit for me as a VKB rudder t-peddal mk II user, can I use it to setup the virtual toe brakes ?

 

Also I can seem to find any instructions on how to change the centering cam for the t-rudder mkII, is it possible for this model ?

 

I found stuff for how to do it on mk III and IV but not for mk II.

 

 

No, WIZZO is only recognized by Gladiator - if you try with T-Rudder or Mamba Mk.III will receive a "CPU ID error" message.

WIZZO is for people that became scary with programs with "more than three options":biggrin: 

 

Anyway what you will do with WIZZO for Gladiator  - basic calibration, deadzones, axis inversion... you can do for T-Rudder with T.Link that have the additional feature for create virtual brake axis in T-Rudder.

Even their interfaces have similar look.

 

Invert the CAM in T-Rudder Mk.II (I have this model) is basically equals to Mk.III, for what is showed in this video:

 

 

Between Mk.II, III and IV don't are significantly mechanical changes. Basically Mk.II don't have this bolt for loose center spring tension, so you will have a bit more of work for remove the spring. :)

 

FYI - For IL-2 BoS/BoM you don't need create virtual brakes axis with T-Link, "differential brakes" work for all planes of this games, but can be will be useful for DCS and other flight games, see here: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2739581&postcount=92

Edited by Sokol1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pilots,

 

The WIZZO utility for the Gladiator has been released. You can now make some basic tweaks to your Gladiator. This version of WIZZO is only intended for use with the Gladiator at this time.

 

Download the .zip and unpack to any folder you wish. Please read the included Quickstart Guide to familiarize yourself with the app.

 

To launch WIZZO simply double click the .exe file. No install routine is required.

 

WIZZO will be improved over time and more functionality will be added in the future.

 


 

WIZZO_GUI_ver1.jpg

 

Note: This is the very first iteration of WIZZO. You may encounter bugs. If so, please report them to us.

 

Jason

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the this kind of spring back looks more realistic to me..

Totally a matter of personal taste. For me, a stick *almost* can't be hard enough (as long as the action is smooth of course).

 

Like I said earlier: Saiteks and Fighter Sticks are a nightmare for me, my ideal for "stiffness" still is the Thrustmaster FCS Pro from the 1990s (like the Warthog's/Cougar's grand-dad), which was so stiff that you had to screw or velcro it to your desk. I've only ever tried the Warthog briefly in a store when it first came out, so I'm not 100% sure about its stiffness. Felt pretty good to me though and definitely on the "stiff" side.

 

I'm also pretty sure that price is a factor when it comes to how stiff you can make a stick. If the forces involved in day-to-day operation are too strong, some (cheaper) materials might not hold up to them for long and you'll eventually end up with a broken/damaged stick. So I would totally understand if the entry-level Gladiator was a bit "floppier" (which seems to be the case). Personally, if I did retire my Sidewinder, I'd go for the Pro or Gunfighter anyway, hoping that it would be the last stick I would ever have to buy. Can't beat metal construction/components when it comes to durability. :D

 

 

S.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally have bought a non centering floor mounted stick. What would be ideal would be something like this

 

This is a force-fed back yoke made by the best manufacturer of hardware for almost everything. It simulate control surface heaviness pushing the yoke forward because of the weight of the elevators. when you accelerate the air resistance make it go back again. 

then why did I buy a non centering stick without these capabilities? Because the price of this yoke is about 1700$ and a stick would be the same price. 

 

Having a stick with resistance will be historical correct in this timeaera at a specific speed, so the tension is really a matter of taste not how authentic it is. I find a floor mounted hydraulic damped non centering stick as close as it ever can be. Maybe mount a buttcicker on it at some point :)

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I will always sing the praise of tactile transducers...It adds so much to the immersion of this game.  So much so that the game feels hollow without my body vibrating.  So just do Luse you will not regret!

Edited by 6./ZG1_GrendelsDad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Totally a matter of personal taste. For me, a stick *almost* can't be hard enough (as long as the action is smooth of course).

 

Like I said earlier: Saiteks and Fighter Sticks are a nightmare for me, my ideal for "stiffness" still is the Thrustmaster FCS Pro from the 1990s (like the Warthog's/Cougar's grand-dad), which was so stiff that you had to screw or velcro it to your desk. I've only ever tried the Warthog briefly in a store when it first came out, so I'm not 100% sure about its stiffness. Felt pretty good to me though and definitely on the "stiff" side.

 

I have a (shelved) Tm FF22PRO ("modernized" to USB) and hate their heavy spring, is "impossible", for example, fly Ka-50 with this stick.  :joy:

But this show that joystick "stiffness" of "softness" never will please all simmers.

 

Examples, in Saitek X-45 people tie their coil to make then less stiff (in Warthog people add extension that minimize coil effect), in X-52 they add CD-ROM cases disk under coils to make the more stiff (in CH sticks people add rubber bands or condom rings over springs)... in X-55/56 Saitek try please all allowing exchange coils...  :)

 

Conclusion: The ideal joystick mechanism (gimbal) for you will be Gunfighter as they allow change the CAM profile (CAM add weight as you move the stick for the end of course) and springs for make then more (or less) stiff, even can combine different forces in X and Y axis.  ;)

Edited by Sokol1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well I bought the Pro, and cant wait for the Gunfighter as its supposed to look like the CH fighterstick and warthog no?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well I bought the Pro, and cant wait for the Gunfighter as its supposed to look like the CH fighterstick and warthog no?

 

The base definitely reminds me of the Warthog.

 

Gunfighter_id.jpg

 

Just like the Gladiator's base reminds me of the Logitech G940.

410Z2h6%2B3eL._SY355_.jpg

 

 

 

But hey: There's only so many ways you can design a joystick. That new entry level Thrustmaster-stick has some similarities with MS' Sidewinders, too.

The inside of the Gladiator definitely looks nicer/more "trustworthy" than the Logitech. God, that 940-set looked so good on paper and was so disappointing "in the flesh" .. :(

 

 

Conclusion: The ideal joystick mechanism (gimbal) for you will be Gunfighter as they allow change the CAM profile (CAM add weight as you move the stick for the end of course) and springs for make then more (or less) stiff, even can combine different forces in X and Y axis.

 

That's what I suspected all along ... hence my line about "the last stick I'll ever need to buy" .. Guess I better start saving some ca$h ... ;)

Edited by 1Sascha

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...  Gunfighter as its supposed to look like the CH fighterstick and warthog no?

 

Look like "F-16" style joystick's  with their KG12 grip?   :scratch_one-s_head:  :)

 

KG12 (or 13) grip (Steuerknüppel) is the default grip for major of Luftwaffe fighters on WWII  - Bf 109, Fw 190, Me 262... copied by Russians for La-7, 9-La, La-11, Yak-3 and used in post war for Mig-15, Mig-17... L-29 and several trainer aircraft of Eastern block.  ;)

 

 

Edited by Sokol1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yup...

 

The Gunfighter's stick/grip itself has nothing in common with the Warthog or the CH Fighter Stick. Warthog is more or less a replica of the A-10's stick, CH's is loosely based on the F-16's stick. The Gladiator is based on this:

 

http://www.deutscheluftwaffe.de/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/k/Knueppelgriffe/Knueppelgriff%20KG%2012.pdf

 

Although on a later version... probably this one?

 

Fl.47915_2.gif

 

List of LW sticks:

http://www.deutscheluftwaffe.de/instrumente/katalog/steuerknueppel/steuerknuppel.htm

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

No, WIZZO is only recognized by Gladiator - if you try with T-Rudder or Mamba Mk.III will receive a "CPU ID error" message.

WIZZO is for people that became scary with programs with "more than three options":biggrin: 

 

Anyway what you will do with WIZZO for Gladiator  - basic calibration, deadzones, axis inversion... you can do for T-Rudder with T.Link that have the additional feature for create virtual brake axis in T-Rudder.

Even their interfaces have similar look.

 

Invert the CAM in T-Rudder Mk.II (I have this model) is basically equals to Mk.III, for what is showed in this video:

 

 

Between Mk.II, III and IV don't are significantly mechanical changes. Basically Mk.II don't have this bolt for loose center spring tension, so you will have a bit more of work for remove the spring. :)

 

FYI - For IL-2 BoS/BoM you don't need create virtual brakes axis with T-Link, "differential brakes" work for all planes of this games, but can be will be useful for DCS and other flight games, see here: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2739581&postcount=92

 

 

 

Tkanks for the info on Wizzo Sokol.

 

On the topic of the T-Rudder pedals MKII, how do you change the cam to the softer centering CAM on your MKII ?

 

  Looking at mine, it only has curvature for centering on one side, so inverting it like the video you posted of the MKIII Cam will not work I'm guessing.  I'm starting to think I should have another separate CAM to insert for the softer centering CAM on the MKII, or some people have a MKIII double sided CAM on their MKII.

 

This is the one I have, notice the CAM is one sided.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLg_B_JUkE4

Edited by Skoop

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This model in the video looks a Mk.I - or maybe is a early Mk.II...

 

In the Mk.II (12/2014) I have the CAM is located internally, in the picture in this video for show a "mod" that I did in Mk.II to muffler the spring sound the double sides of CAM is visible:

 

 

Contact VKB maybe they can provide a double CAM for his model.

Edited by Sokol1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a quick question for either Jason or Sokol, does the trigger for the Gladiator/Pro flip up to cover the top firing button and become the "Safe Guns" position as I think was a feature of the original? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

See in this Asia Games (VKB Asia partner) promotional video @ 0:30:

 

https://youtu.be/sM2q_GjRc2A?t=30

 

Not sure, but think that only don't have spring to make the trigger jump up like original.

 

EDIT - Yes is this, see in LukeFF review of Mamba Vintage (same grip).

 

You know, NA customers can hurt their thumb nails (or biting their nail polish :lol: ) with this and sue VKB.

 

In KG-12 optional metal version of this grip will have spring but with a intermediate "safety step" in trigger course to avoid this kind of "accidents" specially because the metal trigger* is more heavy.   :)  

 

 
 
 
* BTW - Russian customers that did pre-order of Gladiator will receive this metal trigger as keychain and if want can install then in their Gladiators. ;)
Edited by Sokol1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sokol, Thanks again Mate, if you aren't on the payroll, you should be!! it just goes to show the lengths being taken to deliver a quality product. if would be really nice if the metal trigger came standard on the Gladiator pro (hint hint Jason....). Basically means that this will be my next joystick! Again, thanks for the help, Ferg. :biggrin:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

You know, NA customers can hurt their thumb nails (or biting their nail polish :lol: ) with this and sue VKB.

 

This really made me chuckle when I first found out about it. Kinda sad that they couldn't include that feature due to silly "legal" reasons... :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been following this project for quite some time now, and have been through all the various press-releases, web sites, forums posts, etc., but I remain totally perplexed as to where I could buy a Gladiator-Pro in Europe. I appreciate the links with press information, pictures, stats, discussion, etc., but could someone please point me to the European sales web page where I can make an actual purchase?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been following this project for quite some time now, and have been through all the various press-releases, web sites, forums posts, etc., but I remain totally perplexed as to where I could buy a Gladiator-Pro in Europe. I appreciate the links with press information, pictures, stats, discussion, etc., but could someone please point me to the European sales web page where I can make an actual purchase?

The info is right there in the first post of the sticky VKB thread on this board:

 

https://flightsimcontrols.com/

 

Sadly, the Gladiator doesn't appear on this store-page (Europe officially only gets the "Pro"-version IIRC, so it's going to take a while longer).

 

The non-Pro is listed on amazon.com

 

https://www.amazon.com/Gladiator-Joystick-Flight-Simulator-Controller-Stick/dp/B01G6GT49O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1468920405&sr=8-1&keywords=vkb+gladiator

 

and is marked as "can be shipped overseas". Sadly, it doesn't show up when I search for "VKB Gladiator" on amazon.de, though.

 

 

But seeing that you're located in Suomi-country, perhaps ordering from Russia would be the best option for you? Not sure if that works this way, but the distance from Finland to Russia seems a tad shorter than from Finland to the US... ;) Again: Import-tariffs and taxes might make this impractical.. not sure.

 

S.

Edited by 1Sascha

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would really like the Gunfighter or the Gladiator pro. The downside of the Gunfighter is the lack of a throttle which VKB doesn't have yet. It looks amazing though. Can't argue with that!

 

Grt M

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This really made me chuckle when I first found out about it. Kinda sad that they couldn't include that feature due to silly "legal" reasons... :(

 

It's a joke.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm... if I interpret the gibberish that Google translate makes of that post correctly (despite my name, I don't speak Russian :D), the trigger is indeed moveable - but there's no spring built-in?

 

 

 

It's a joke.

 

 

In these days where people will sue manufacturers over pretty much everything, I wouldn't be surprised if a manufacturer was extra careful with anything that might come back later to bite them in the ass in a court-case. In a US court, squeezing your own finger under a plastic trigger would probably be worth, what ...

 

 

?

 

 

;)

 

 

S.

Edited by 1Sascha

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a x55 Joystick laying around, because the throttle controller, left throttle inst working, can I use the joystick for the Pro, like the warthog? is there a chance to make a conversion, for it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Officially not for now, the supported 3rd party grips is Warthog, Cougar and Cobra M5 (theoretically old Tm FF22 PRO, FLCS can be used...) because all use CD4021 Shift Register interface to send buttons/HAT's press to controller in serial protocol.

 

Saitek, CH, MS... use diode matrix for this.

Edited by Sokol1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...