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Zak

Developer Diary, Part 86 - Discussion

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okay, lets see what I got there, by klicking on that first pic:

 

-an article page about the FW190

-a pic of muscle man, topless

-a pic of terminator, topless

-a pic of an angry granny

-a pic of a toilet (!)

-a pic of a beautiful girl in bikini

 

This is just disturbing, just wrong, just wrong!

"postimage" is one of the few sites that let you post larger images, without butchering the quality, for free. Obviously there are a few shortcomings, but being able to post images up to FIVE megs it's not something you find everywhere.

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So;  no announcements about updates for the stuff this game really needs like Dserver or a useable FMB or fundamental  flight model behavior and no mention of a road map for the future or getting rid of some of the more daft things the devs have done to this game? 

 

But lots of interest in this "technocrat" bollox and oxygen? 

 

Big, big yawn..............

 

Sorry to sound so dismissive but the devs seem intent on driving this game down the same path RoF has been on which involves a juggle between aspirations and resources.

 

Whether you like to admit it or not; the fact is this game has been released prematurely with several vital features missing and/or absent.  Get rid of the unlocks/presets nonsense immediately.  Get the community on side once again.  Release Dserver and FMB now and then go full out for some sort of summer map. 

 

Oh yeah... the single player campaign?  Best to just bite the bullet on that one and put it down to experience.  I believe Jason might have Pat A. Wilsons phone number - use it ;)

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The fact that we will have a functioning oxygen system it's quite exiting

that will be a great feature to BoS and the CFS genere

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New features are always welcome, however will they be adding any more planes, other then the unflyable ju 52? i bought the premium edition because i wanted to support the company (not enough people making flight sims) and i would really appreciate a few more planes :) even another bomber or two would be nice. (prefer flying the big planes)

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Zak has said he keeps an eye on all technical threads so please keep FW190 discussion in the appropriate threads.

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Great to gave you back Zak. Do you think you could describe the oxygen system in very broad terms? Whether it's a simple mask animation or a more involved part of gameplay for pilot management.

I'm not yet sure that we're going to draw a mask or restrict the view in any way. When you climb high enough your pilot will start to suffer some blackouts (which maybe can lead to death).

New features are always welcome, however will they be adding any more planes, other then the unflyable ju 52?

We'll talk about all possible big additions to the game later when the roadmap is set

Was any thought given by the team over the break to getting rid of unlocks?

No, because there's nothing wrong with the unlocks. Every game these days has it, so does IL2BOS.

  • Upvote 5

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Guess thats it for me then, oh well.

 

The massive rift in the community and the loss of god knows how many costumers, present and future, has no impact on your business? Guess that's good news, to those who are left playing the game.

 

And every other game having the unlocks is all fine and dandy. Problem is that you implemented it in a way no other game has. And not in a good way mind you.

 

Anyways, you do what you the way you like it, its your game.

 

 

Good luck everyone.

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I'm not yet sure that we're going to draw a mask or restrict the view in any way. When you climb high enough your pilot will start to suffer some blackouts (which maybe can lead to death).

 

We'll talk about all possible big additions to the game later when the roadmap is set

 

No, because there's nothing wrong with the unlocks. Every game these days has it, so does IL2BOS.

Yes. But every other game doesn't have a complete commitment to historical accuracy like il2 does.

 

I'd always though il2 had greater aspirations than being like every other game.

Edited by Bumfluff

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No, because there's nothing wrong with the unlocks. Every game these days has it, so does IL2BOS.

 

No other flight sim that I have currently installed on my PC, have unlocks with the exception of BOS.

I continue to play my other flight sims, no longer BOS.

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Guess thats it for me then, oh well.

 

The massive rift in the community and the loss of god knows how many costumers, present and future, has no impact on your business? Guess that's good news, to those who are left playing the game.

 

And every other game having the unlocks is all fine and dandy. Problem is that you implemented it in a way no other game has. And not in a good way mind you.

 

Anyways, you do what you the way you like it, its your game.

 

 

Good luck everyone.

Bye then.

I have no problem with unlocks, I think you will see from the poll on this subject that there is a majority of pilots who don't like them but it is a not a big majority.

You do not speak for everyone on this matter.

If you dump BOS because you can't get your own way its your loss not ours.

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Hahahahahaha!

 

Isn't it great when a supplier listens to the opinions of his customer (and potential customers)?

 

I guess the poll meant nothing, the poor user-reviews on Steam and Metacritic that almost universally pan the unlock system, the endless criticism of the unlock system on every third thread in this forum ... All mean nothing at all.

 

Even some of the fully paid-up members of the BoS Defence League* are openly critical, even some moderators of this forum express their discontent about the unlock system.

 

And still, all we hear on the matter from the developers is "there's nothing wrong with the unlocks"

 

 

Hahahahaha! Priceless.

 

 

Have the developers ever thought about a career in politics?

 

 

 

 

 

* Those that show up in every thread, where someone has something even remotely critical to say about BoS, and shout them down and claim that the complainer is no more than a Hater and that they should "suck it up or leave" - we all know who I'm taking about, no names needed.

I do not think BOS is perfect.

FMs are not right but close, boring grinding campaign and when someone suggest a variety of different aircraft and missions they get shouted down as if only fighters exist in this game.

Please can anyone name a game that has no faults at all.......they do not exist.

A clear road map to where BOS is going is on its way , so were told...be patient.

But its always everyone's own choice to stay or leave, ...why is it everything on this forum has to be black and white?, an absolute?.

I'm sorry I just don't get it???????

I think people don't really know what they want here........

Edited by voncrapenhauser
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Zak, you talk about roadmap. Excuse my ingnorance this road map its publicated on forum??? what are items and dates? , can you show us something more about roadmap.

 

thx a lot.

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No other flight sim that I have currently installed on my PC, have unlocks with the exception of BOS.

I continue to play my other flight sims, no longer BOS.

Flight sim is a genre.....it is still a game and will never represent real flight , just an approximation. 

It will never be the perfection some people seem to want.

Edited by voncrapenhauser

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Flight sim is a genre.....it is still a game and will never represent real flight , just an approximation. 

It will never be the perfection some people seem to want.

Even IL2 1946 had aircraft that unlocked in a chronological order , as they were manufactured, no one complained about that.

So if a better unlock system that made logical sense to a timeline within a campaign, maybe could be the answer.

With more variety in mission types and aircraft as in 1946.

 

If it ain't broke.............

Edited by voncrapenhauser

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I'm not yet sure that we're going to draw a mask or restrict the view in any way. When you climb high enough your pilot will start to suffer some blackouts (which maybe can lead to death).

I hope this feauure will not account to aircrafts with oxygen supply (all german aircaft had oxygen supply by that time). That would be plenly wrong.

Apart from that this sounds promising.

 

The Unlock thing is still pretty unpleasant to me because it's restricted to the campaign and not acchievable via multiplayer. While it's definetly not contributing to IL-2 BoS's level of authenticity I could live with them easier if they were coupled with MP acchievements.

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At least it's clear now, that unlocks will stay forever.

Good to know.

+1

Live with it or walk its peoples own prerogative.

It would be shame if people walked though over something relatively small as a game feature. :(

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I hope this feauure will not account to aircrafts with oxygen supply (all german aircaft had oxygen supply by that time). That would be plenly wrong.

Apart from that this sounds promising.

 

The Unlock thing is still pretty unpleasant to me because it's restricted to the campaign and not acchievable via multiplayer. While it's definetly not contributing to IL-2 BoS's level of authenticity I could live with them easier if they were coupled with MP acchievements.

+1 on the MP problem.

If there were points for everything done in this game would please both MP and SP players?

I play both so IDM either way TBH. :)

No it didn't.

 

No loadout, plane, map or feature were ever hidden behind an unlock in IL2 1946.

 

Perhaps you're thinking about the campaigns where you need to complete a certain number of missions before the next plane was made available, in the campaign.

You could still fly that plane in other campaigns, in QMB or in MP.

So, not the same thing at all really.

Correct.

But if you didn't skip parts of the campaign you couldn't have , say the mustang and corsair from the start?

I agree, not the same but I felt was still a form of unlock, which I was happy with.

 

 

Ahh I see what you mean now lockouts in MP because of SP points??

Yes I disagree with that if so?

New to MP me.

Edited by voncrapenhauser

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Hahahahahaha!

 

Isn't it great when a supplier listens to the opinions of his customer (and potential customers)?

 

I guess the poll meant nothing, the poor user-reviews on Steam and Metacritic that almost universally pan the unlock system, the endless criticism of the unlock system on every third thread in this forum ... All mean nothing at all.

 

Even some of the fully paid-up members of the BoS Defence League* are openly critical, even some moderators of this forum express their discontent about the unlock system.

 

And still, all we hear on the matter from the developers is "there's nothing wrong with the unlocks"

 

 

Hahahahaha! Priceless.

 

 

Have the developers ever thought about a career in politics?

 

 

 

 

I'm sure they have!  [Edited]  They'll fit right in with telling the people what is best for them....they'll get it...good and hard

 

Look guys expressing discontent is one thing. This kind of provocative dialog will not be tolerated. Please do not make a post like this again.

Edited by Bearcat
Political content

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But if you didn't skip parts of the campaign you couldn't have , say the mustang and corsair from the start?

I agree, not the same but I felt was still a form of unlock, which I was happy with.

 

There's a huge difference between historical progression through a campaign or career and gamey unlocks.

 

I take the unlocks for what they are. They were the wrong design choice and are wrong on principle in any kind of sim, but I'm tired of the endless complaining about them, because quite frankly, as long as we don't have anything resembling a historical campaign or career mode, they're not really ruining anything, and it's really not that hard to get through those few dozens of missions to unlock everything.

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I'm not yet sure that we're going to draw a mask or restrict the view in any way. When you climb high enough your pilot will start to suffer some blackouts (which maybe can lead to death).

 

Great stuff.  That's the sort of thing I was hoping for.  Thanks!     :biggrin:

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But you could have the Mustang or Corsair from the start of a different campaign if it were written to include that plane. You didn't have to unlock it to use it.

 

There's a huge difference between historical progression through a campaign or career and gamey unlocks.

 

I take the unlocks for what they are. They were the wrong design choice and are wrong on principle in any kind of sim, but I'm tired of the endless complaining about them, because quite frankly, as long as we don't have anything resembling a historical campaign or career mode, they're not really ruining anything, and it's really not that hard to get through those few dozens of missions to unlock everything.

Agreed on both points. 

I did say" a form of unlock".

You have convinced me.

Anyhoo we're stuck with them like it or not now according to the DEv's.

Personaly if the way they were implemented was better we wouldn't be having this conversation I'm thinking.

Edited by voncrapenhauser

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I really wouldn't have minded the unlocks if we had a decent campaign/career.

 

As it is, for me, there's literally no reason to spend any serious time in the game.

 

I load it up once in a blue moon to enjoy the feeling of flight and the pretty lighting and weather but there's, unfortunately, nothing to hold my attention.

Think the campaign, or lack of seems to be the main problem here.

I can only stand to do a three mission grind before I long for some variety. :unsure:

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Was any thought given by the team over the break to getting rid of unlocks?

No, because there's nothing wrong with the unlocks. Every game these days has it, so does IL2BOS.

 

OK Zak.. since this is on the table I have to ask....  I have stated on many occasions that I am no fan of the unlocks and I have never bitten my tongue about that. However , I came to the conclusion that they were here and my choice was to either suck it up and get busy working them.. however necessary/possible, or just not use those features. I chose the former instead of the latter.

 

I may not like it... but I understand if at this point removing the unlocks is not an option. Based on a poll on this forum of pilots 91.92% of those who participated in the poll that is 1036 out of 1127, were unhappy with the unlocks as they are currently implemented. Now as I said I understand that for whatever reason they will not be removed in the current incarnation of BoS and while I do not like it and think it was a bad decison to begin with I understand if for reasons that none of us on the outside know it just is not doable now. I get it.

 

My question to you is.. Moving forward with new content, will this same "feature" that most folks do not like and that has caused so much dissention among the ranks and bad press for BoS overall continue to be implemented as new content is released?

 

If that is the case I fear for the future of BoS. BoS is an outstanding product. Yes there are parts of it that are still raw.. but overall it is a stellar product with so much potential. That one thing. That ONE THING... more so than anything else has caused so much negativity towards this product and it is a shame. Consider that there are all kinds of reasons why many are just not happy with the feature  and why even of it cannot be "removed" currently it should most definitely beyond any shadow of a doubt be "discontinued" moving forward. That book needs to be closed and never opened again.

 

Some do not have the time. Some just do not like it. Most bought this to have fun and that feature is just NOT FUN for too many folks. It was a bad decision regardless to what anyone else on the team thinks and while there are a handful of folks who do like it, every reviewer that I have read had something less than positive to say about that. Lackluster campaign? Well the ME is coming... No user skins..? That issue has been resolved in a fantastic way! No Dserver?  The resolution of that issue is also forthcoming and that will change the entire face of multiplayer for the better!

 

The unlocks.. like it or not is the big fat mole on the face of this really hot chick and for many .. it is just hard to get in the mood with her, as hot as she may very well be,  because they just cannot stop looking at that mole.

 

Adding unlocks to MP , reinstalling time acceleration up to 16x, or allowing for customizable options in the difficulty settings of the campaign will go a long way to at least making the process more bearable if it cannot be removed altogether at this point but moving forward from here it needs to go away and be confined to the initial release. If people have to go through that same process for each new aircraft it will not bode well.

 

I have and will continue to be a supporter of this sim and this community throughout it's lifespan if needed/allowed but I have to be honest about this whole issue. I have stated many times that BoS is a great sim. Those who call it an arcade game because of those features are in denial.. but that one feature is like an anchor tied to it's wheels. This sim will rise regardless.. but whether it rises like a rocket or a balloon will be determined by the decisions this team makes over the next 6-18 months. It would be a lot higher even today.. if not for some decisions made by the team.

 

Great DD overall and good to see you guys back to work. Looking forward to whatever is coming down the runway.

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So when do we get the fmb?

 

Loft said that it would be available in the spring - spring 2014 that is.

 

It has been more then a year since we have been promised the fmb and still nothing.

 

Why is it that the fmb is available to some yet the community as a whole has not been given this promised feature?

 

Hey bearcat: if you want people to read your post then maybe you should try emulating someone besides Dostoyevsky.

 

Walls of text like that hardly encourage people to read your posts. Especially when you essentially repeat yourself. Edit your wall of text down a bit if you want the average bos player to read it please.

 

It almost seems like you spend more time typing then playing.

Edited by LizLemon

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So when do we get the fmb?

 

Loft said that it would be available in the spring - spring 2014 that is.

 

It has been more then a year since we have been promised the fmb and still nothing.

 

Why is it that the fmb is available to some yet the community as a whole has not been given this promised feature?

Hey bearcat: if you want people to reaf your post then maybe you should try emulating someone besides Dostoyevsky.

 

Walls of text like that hardly encourage prople to read your posts. Especially when you essentially repeat yourself. Edit your wall of text down a bit I'd you want the average bos player to read it please.

 

If you want to continue to post on this forum you need to relax. I see you edited your post.  :dry: Good move.

 

I don't know if you are trying to intentionally be combative or not but you need to think before you post. How could we expect the FMB in the spring of 2014 when we didn't get the sim released until the fall of 2014? Loft said that the the FMB would be released after the sim was released. He never said anything about the spring of 2014 as a hard date.

 

Hey bearcat: if you want people to reaf your post then maybe you should try emulating someone besides Dostoyevsky.

 

Walls of text like that hardly encourage prople to read your posts. Especially when you essentially repeat yourself. Edit your wall of text down a bit I'd you want the average bos player to read it please.

 

Are you looking for prople to proofread your posts? :P

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Every game these days has it, so does IL2BOS.

you are right if you consider IL2BOS a game...

 

but I think that most of us are looking for a simulation...

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How could we expect the FMB in the spring of 2014 when we didn't get the sim released until the fall of 2014? Loft said that the the FMB would be released after the sim was released. He never said anything about the spring of 2014 as a had date.

Well this flat out contradicts what he said during dev diary 39

 

Here is the link; http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/168-developer-diary/

 

And here is a screen cap;

http://i.imgur.com/8e4Wl6Y.png

 

Notice how this post was made in november of 2013 and states that fmb will be available in spring.

 

As to why I edited the content of my post- I am on my phone currently so I had to correct some spelling errors but the content of my post is identical to what I originally posted.

 

If you find it humorous enough to joke about then take whatever mod action is relevant within your given powers. But I have a hunch that if I responded in the same caustic way as you just did then I wouldn't receive cute laughing smiles.

 

Oh I should also mention that I've saved all the dev diaries if anyone would like them.

 

For some reason I can't quote the above line from a year old dev diary.

 

Ps bearcat; I had to do some more spelling corrections. Please don't mock a paying customer for making a few mistakes. Would a laughing face be appropriate here????

Edited by LizLemon
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No, because there's nothing wrong with the unlocks. Every game these days has it, so does IL2BOS.

 

 

About unlock: I personally hope, that in the future (i mean new planes) will not unlock system necessary. BoS is not WT or MMO in general.  BoS is - it should be - a simulator. If devs want unlock system - why we can`t unlock things in multiplayer too? So simply...

Edited by II./JG1_Baron

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Why is it that the fmb is available to some yet the community as a whole has not been given this promised feature?

 

 

 

 

It's because they agreed to say only good things about the game. :biggrin:

Edited by Jaws2002
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Hey bearcat: if you want people to read your post then maybe you should try emulating someone besides Dostoyevsky.

 

 

 

Well this flat out contradicts what he said during dev diary 39

 

Here is the link; http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/168-developer-diary/

 

And here is a screen cap;

http://i.imgur.com/8e4Wl6Y.png

 

Notice how this post was made in november of 2013 and states that fmb will be available in spring.

 

If you find it humorous enough to joke about then take whatever mod action is relevant within your given powers. But I have a hunch that if I responded in the same caustic way as you just did then I wouldn't receive cute laughing smiles.

 

Ps bearcat; I had to do some more spelling corrections. Please don't mock a paying customer for making a few mistakes. Would a laughing face be appropriate here????

 

My statement to you about posting here, as was the one with the smiles was partly related to you calling me out by name and telling me to proofread my post. I have to take that crap elsewhere. I don't have to take it here. If you don't like my style of posting then don't read them but I will post as I see fit to get a point across whether you like it or not.

 

As for the FMB and what Loft said... The team said a lot of things.. things change, things get delayed. Everyone knows that and everyone knows how this all shook out. The tone of your post is combative

 

So when do we get the fmb? Loft said that it would be available in the spring - spring 2014 that is. It has been more then a year since we have been promised the fmb and still nothing. Why is it that the fmb is available to some yet the community as a whole has not been given this promised feature?

and uncalled for on a subject that numerous subsequent posts by Loft, Zak and Jason have all updated the status of the FMB. This was the other part of my reference to if you want to continue to post here. There is no need for that.

 

If you have anything else to say to me please take it to a PM as this thread is not the place for it. Otherwise please act as if you want to actually have a dialog and not just poke a stick in the pot.

 

The FMB is not available to everyone yet because it obviously is just not ready.

  • Upvote 4

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How could we expect the FMB in the spring of 2014 when we didn't get the sim released until the fall of 2014? Loft said that the the FMB would be released after the sim was released. He never said anything about the spring of 2014 as a had date.

So do you now concede that the above statement is false bearcat?

 

Because loft clearly stated that the fmb would be released for everyone nearly a year ago. Backtracking and defensive posturing was not implied in your original post. Sorry if I couldn't see what wasn't there.

 

As for my comment on your posting style - it was meant as a friendly suggestion. If you took it otherwise then forgive me. I think that's a fair exchange for passive aggressive smiles, no?

 

As far as pms, that was sent 10+ min before you replied to this thread.... but you probably knew that, no? Or did you not see the notification? Maybe it needs a smile

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Edited by LizLemon

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now i had to google "refraction garbage"
found 190 cockpit screens. not disappointed. Thumbs up.

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Maybe it's an MSG? Massive Singleplayer Grinding :biggrin:

 

Seriously I also doubt it will be changed. They sell the cheap version in russia which totally build upon the concept of "unlocks" but the sells may not keep up with the ones waiting for this feauture to be abandoned completely before buying the game sim.

 

BoS is to narrow to attract masseswith casual feautures and the current unlock-mechanics are far off being suited for this kind of sims.

 

A reasonablily and authenticly represented award system like a real pilot career with predefined missions and objectives, the "unlock" idea could work well among smmers I think (example: getting new machines for being promoted to new squadroms or equipment by participating in specially ordered dangerous missions).

 

With a MP function and much more "goodies" to unlock like camouflages, plane decals and personal equipment it could attract the casual players better than the current mechanic does since they need a steady goal of "grinding" stuff while playing (example: WT).

 

BoS does offer neither and the SP-limitation strikes frustrated MP pilots even harder. No matter how you put BoS s by far not the envirounment suited for unlocks, as they either need to adress simmers or casuals. There's simply no "golden path inbetween".

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So do you now concede that the above statement is false bearcat?

 

Because loft clearly stated that the fmb would be released for everyone nearly a year ago. Backtracking and defensive posturing was not implied in your original post. Sorry if I couldn't see what wasn't there.

 

As for my comment on your posting style - it was meant as a friendly suggestion. If you took it otherwise then forgive me. I think that's a fair exchange for passive aggressive smiles, no?

 

As far as pms, that was sent 10+ min before you replied to this thread.... but you probably knew that, no? Or did you not see the notification? Maybe it needs a smile

 

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

You really need to end this in this thread now. Or I will.

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Ok bearcat.

 

I'll be the bigger man and admit that it was an immature and childish thing for me to post. I should not have engaged in such passive aggressive posturing by abusing the emoticon system rather than actually attempting to address your points.

 

However could you admit that you were wrong with this following statement?

 

 

I think its only fair that you admit your failings if you want me to take an account of mine.

 

Deal?

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No, because there's nothing wrong with the unlocks. Every game these days has it, so does IL2BOS.

If you had advertized IL2 as a game I wouldn't have bought it. You clearly suggested it was a SIM and I bought it as such. I expected to enjoy quite a few years of combat flight simming. I hoped to be able to support 1C/777 with new purchases and community involvement. But you sold me a game. I can't tell you how infrequently I play this game... and no I didn't get my money's worth yet.

 

Quite frankly?!!? I hope this company fails. The opinions and requests of the members have been stated over and over again. Apparently you don't understand or more importantly - don't care.

 

When one of your biggest cheerleaders/moderators says he hates the unlocks but still "sucks it up" to be able to play the game how he wants to... and when there have been a plethora of supporters combatively suggesting how poor the unlock system is; you don't care about the customers. Nor do you understand what makes a good simulator. But then again, you made a game.

 

If you at least gave the community a decent answer instead of your middle finger "F**K YOU" reply, there might be some peace. But no, we get, 'because I said so" type answers instead of reasoned replies.  You treat the community like petulant little children and then wonder why everyone is up in arms.

Edited by Trident_109
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