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Looks like the final straw for any flight sim

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Sharpe you're bonkers. The very best mission I ever had on expert earned me 385 or so points... Mostly I keep missing everything on the ground for the lack of icons and my complete inability to hit anything with a bomb. I am lucky to complete 1 in 3 missions as I like to prune the trees with my prop and ventilate my cockpit with flak. If you can score 2000 points in one mission then clearly the rest of us are doing it completely wrong.

 

 

"One good successful Expert level mission per chapter"

 

One mission Per Chapter, there are five chapters

 

Cheers Dakpilot

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The unlocks aren't deserving of so much angst.

First they're fun.

Second if you so desire to "game the game" you can get everything for a plane in under 2 hours. It doesn't take as much time as some are implying.

One good successful Expert level mission per chapter is enough to earn all the points it takes to get everything for that plane.

 

 

I've never been all that concerned about the unlocks but it wouldn't be truthful if I said they didn't bother me.  If from the outset we had simply been invited to purchase a finished game and unlocks were part of the deal then things may have been different - maybe.  But having been involved through the Early Access phase, for me at least, it wasn't so much like buying a game as being involved in a collaboration (and yes, I'm aware that it wasn't a collaboration but that's how it felt).  That sense of involvement and participation took a serious hit when the developers elected to disregard the community's deeply felt concerns and simply exercise their rightful prerogative to do as they pleased.   At that point the illusion was finally shattered.  

 

Unlocks may not be all that bad and they may even be good for us but that's all quite irrelevant now.  Like trying to convince a tearful chair-kicking three year old that he should sit-up eat his greens cos they're good for him.  Ain't going to happen m8.

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They could be fun. If the design of the campaign was enjoyable.

I dislike the concept altogether and still adhere to the belief that it has no place in the genre but you are not incorrect.

 

It all comes down to the poor execution of AQMB.

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Just a thought when and if the Ju52 ever becomes flyable maybe one of the things that could be transported to the troops is a goat.

 

Honestly you have to laugh that someone has made some money out of a goat simulator, now that is thinking outside the box.

Resupply of the German soldiers in Stalingrad with parachuting Goats dropped from Ju52's would be a great feature

Toss the unlock centered SP Campaign, update the b-Career in RoF for WWII and port it into BoS, cut MP players loose to play with all gear and skins immediately and BoS becomes a great game!

 

Note: Talk to Pat Wilson about why the b-Career AI in RoF doesn't work like it does in QMB.  He had the same problem in PWCG but figured it out and fixed it.  It was simply a change in how mission instructions are written for each AI plane.  A programmatic one time fix and you're good to go.  The only reason b-Career in RoF doesn't get played more is because of the problem with the AI.  It would probably rival PWCG for player's attention if the AI were fixed.

 

:good:

 

Good ideas here

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Sharpe you're bonkers. The very best mission I ever had on expert earned me 385 or so points... Mostly I keep missing everything on the ground for the lack of icons and my complete inability to hit anything with a bomb. I am lucky to complete 1 in 3 missions as I like to prune the trees with my prop and ventilate my cockpit with flak. If you can score 2000 points in one mission then clearly the rest of us are doing it completely wrong.

No, not one mission total. But about one good mission per chapter. There are five chapters. Your example above, 385 x 5 = 1925 or about 2,000. Realize you get more points for completing missions successfuly than for destroying targets. 240 for just completing it.

So don't try to get so many targets, like you only need to shoot one bomber or 4 trucks. After mission sucess fly straight home and land. If you 2x speed there and back, I did a long mission in 15 minutes and racked up 300 points. 6 missions like that would take 90 minutes and unlock everything. Now I don't like playing it that way because it's really not fun. But it could be done.

No, they really aren't.

At least they aren't to me.

There are many, many, many people on this very forum that agree.

Since you earn the unlocks by playing this game, and flying around shooting up stuff is fun, then getting unlocks is fun.

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-snip-

Since you earn the unlocks by playing this game, and flying around shooting up stuff is fun, then getting unlocks is fun.

 

In my opinion, flying around and shooting stuff up in the missions that the developers have designed (and are generating on a server) is not fun. Those missions also happen to be the requirement for the unlocks.

 

:salute:

Edited by FalkeEins

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If your referring to my comments I made no such complaint, I know ROF was a disaster in its first year but I still didn't have to unlock anything in sp mode, I just waited for MP mode to be released, I bought BOS early as I did ROF and for the extra cost was rewarded I thought with certain planes and load outs, I used them regularly until someone amongst the devs decided I had to now unlock them.

 

Sorry but I'm fairly busy and don't have the time or desire to do that especially in sp mode, if you do that's fine I'm not complaining about the sim itself which was coming along great then someone decided to add the IMO  ridiculous unlock feature and they have turned what was heading towards being a popular sim into what we now have.

 

I'll get back into it once the mission builder and dserver is released but for someone living down under there are no local servers at the moment so ping is not great and our time zones mean not many are on when we play so I just can't be bothered with the effort of the unlocks at the moment, the game itself though seems to have a lot of promise but the Devs at some stage need to decide if they want sales or to remain stubborn about certain features, pity really because I was enjoying the pre release a lot and as you state it was in a lot better shape than ROF at release.

 

No, I'm not. You're very self absorbed if you believe I was directing at you, since some select other individuals make the same comments time and again that makes it seem like so many when it is not that many but just repetitiveness from a small ilk. Unlocks are by no means awesome, but they are not preventing anyone from playing other than those that spend their lives wasting them on petty squabbles.

 

I'm not fairly busy, I'm extremely absent from being able to play any computer games. That is neither here nor there. I don't sit here and diary my time spent playing this game to post in a thread about how "terrible" BoS is, or deciding to play another game because of how "terrible" BoS is, or spending time with what little family I have left, or the time I spend not in the country where my computer is so I can even think about playing a game - like so many insist on doing. I have maybe a couple of hours a month to play, if I'm lucky. And its at odd hours, I join servers with no one on it and still enjoy it because this is beyond others in so many ways.

 

BoS is just amazing.

 

I'm going to go back to spending my limited free time playing whatever game I feel like playing when the time to play is available, and play that game I feel like playing at that time - because making a post that amounts to this: "oh, I was going to play BoS but then I remembered it has cooties." is just laughably sad, and so many have done that in this very thread.

In my opinion, flying around and shooting stuff up in the missions that the developers have designed (and are generating on a server) is not fun. Those missions also happen to be the requirement for the unlocks.

 

:salute:

 

So you don't want a dynamic campaign generator then?

 (and are generating on a server)

 

 

Why does it matter where they are generated? There are plenty of other games using cloud based AI and mission design. Is the future.. scary?

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OK guys... some of the posters in this thread need to just step back. Chillax a bit folks. Look ...... for some of us the unlocks are fun.. for others they aren't. Everyone is entitled to feel how they feel about them one way or the other but no one should be poo pooing someone else's feelings on it or trying to convince anyone other wise. They are what they are to all of us and they are here regardless to how any of us feel about them. Fun for some--- a pita for others... everybody needs to move on because they are what they are for now so lets not get those brush fires going again folks.

 

Everybody .... CHILLAX!

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OK guys... some of the posters in this thread need to just step back. Chillax a bit folks. Look ...... for some of us the unlocks are fun.. for others they aren't. Everyone is entitled to feel how they feel about them one way or the other but no one should be poo pooing someone else's feelings on it or trying to convince anyone other wise. They are what they are to all of us and they are here regardless to how any of us feel about them. Fun for some--- a pita for others... everybody needs to move on because they are what they are for now so lets not get those brush fires going again folks.

 

Everybody .... CHILLAX!

 

 

The unlocks...BOS's version of Herpes.

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The unlocks...BOS's version of Herpes.

 

Let's hope it doesn't get with any other flight sims then, wouldn't want it to spread, would we?

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Those who feel unlocks isn't a big deal and try to convince others of that obvious fact. :dry:  doesn't seem to understand the basic complaint. People are forced to grind for things they already paid good money for, its that simple and no amount of arguing is going to change that fact. Its completely irrelevant if it takes 2 hours or less (Claiming it doesn't take longer for the majority of players is, frankly, an outright lie), its still forcing people. So, please, don't try to prove people wrong, its not going to change the fundamental issue. 

 

Thats the last im going to say on the matter.

 

P.S. I haven't done the grinding and im not going to, its that simple.

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 People are forced to grind for things they already paid good money for, its that simple and no amount of arguing is going to change that fact.

 

Fortunately I paid for BoS with BAD money, so the unlocks do not bother me so much :P  :cool: Personally I think it would have been interesting if entry to MP would have been an unlock, but others maybe would have not seen it the same way, LoL

 

Cheers Dakpilot

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No, they really aren't.

 

At least they aren't to me.

 

There are many, many, many people on this very forum that agree.

I like the unlocks.....anything to break the monotony of the campaign as it stands at this time. :biggrin:

They could be fun. If the design of the campaign was enjoyable.

See not everyone is closed to the suggestion that they could be fun if done better. :P

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The unlocks...BOS's version of Herpes.

-1

But LOL all the same. :biggrin:

Fortunately I paid for BoS with BAD money, so the unlocks do not bother me so much :P  :cool: Personally I think it would have been interesting if entry to MP would have been an unlock, but others maybe would have not seen it the same way, LoL

 

Cheers Dakpilot

See I would be happy with a MP unlocks too, say have to get to a low level before you could enter.?  :biggrin:

 

I'm expecting to be shouted down on this one , all I am looking for is variety here.

Please get rid of unlocks.

 

Give people choice and variety.

+1 on variety

Great name BTW.LOL

Edited by voncrapenhauser

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-snip-

 

So you don't want a dynamic campaign generator then?

 

Why does it matter where they are generated? There are plenty of other games using cloud based AI and mission design. Is the future.. scary?

 

A. It is not a dynamic campaign generator. What was your point..?

 

B. It doesn't really - am I incorrect or what was your point..? You sad? Upset? Need a hug..?  :unsure:

 

If you have a problem, take it to PM. Nobody was addressing you and I think you are only looking for someone to disagree with - a typicality of your posts on this forum.

Edited by FalkeEins

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The unlocks aren't deserving of so much angst.

First they're fun.

Second if you so desire to "game the game" you can get everything for a plane in under 2 hours. It doesn't take as much time as some are implying.

One good successful Expert level mission per chapter is enough to earn all the points it takes to get everything for that plane.

 

That is just not true. You must also consider that not everyone will/can fly BoS the same way. Some folks just cannot do the "Expert" thing.. some guys have to do Normal..

 

No, not one mission total. But about one good mission per chapter. There are five chapters. Your example above, 385 x 5 = 1925 or about 2,000. Realize you get more points for completing missions successfuly than for destroying targets. 240 for just completing it.

So don't try to get so many targets, like you only need to shoot one bomber or 4 trucks. After mission sucess fly straight home and land. If you 2x speed there and back, I did a long mission in 15 minutes and racked up 300 points. 6 missions like that would take 90 minutes and unlock everything. Now I don't like playing it that way because it's really not fun. But it could be done.

Since you earn the unlocks by playing this game, and flying around shooting up stuff is fun, then getting unlocks is fun.

 

Be all this as it may very well be.. for many it just is just not fun. For me the only reason I do this is because I have to and from my perspective, even if the new content does not have this feature.. I still will not be able to use what is locked.. so my attitude, and what I have chosen to do for myself is .. suck it up and get it done.. but I am not happy about it at all. I got most of the unlocks done while on holiday staycation otherwise it would have taken me much longer. I still have a few left to do .. but IMO the best way for BoS to survive moving forward is to make the sim as accessible to as wide a group of simmers as possible. The sim is good enough to stand on it's own to feet and the primary obstacle to it not being a smashing success has been the unlocks. Even the presets while annoying have not overshadowed the unlocks as a bone of contention for the sim community at large. No amount of sugar coating or denial will change this. Having said that, as I said.. this team is not stupid and I think the reason the unlocks have not been changed for now is because they cannot be at this point. That does not mean that this will be the way that new content will be managed in the future or that they may not eventually be removed, but at this point in time it is just not doable, or as easily doable as some may think without creating more problems in other areas. None if us know.. only the devs do and they are not obligated to explain every nuts and bolts decision they make. No dev does that or ever has.

 

The bottom line in this is we can discuss and ask and complain and complain about complainers till the cows come home..  but none of that will change anything. If anything does change on this issue .. it will be when the devs are ready/able to implement it and no amount of input from us will change that. These guys are not stupid and I have no doubt that they have seen every aspect of the unfolding events sine the sim was released. I would be very surprised and very disappointed if moving forward with new content was implemented the same way. In the meantime as a simmer and a customer it is in my best interest to just get it done. It is a PITA but it is not insurmountable. The fact that BoS is a great sim in spite of this motivates me to just get it done. Kind of like joining another branch of the military and having to go through basic all over again without the yelling and screaming..

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Bearcat...I think what you meant to say was.....till the "goats" come home, not cows......right?   :biggrin:

Edited by JagdNeun
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Some folks just cannot do the "Expert" thing.. some guys have to do Normal..

What I mean by that advice is for players to give Expert a try. If you're after getting all the goodies as fast as possible, it's defintly the way to go and not as difficult as it might seem. First you're given waypoint indicators on your HUD and the targets show up on your O Map so navigating and finding targets especially on the ground is very easy. Stick to ground targets as the easiest fastest way.

Icons are certainly the biggest help in Normal but using the O Map it's pretty easy to find them. And you don't need to shoot up dozens of them. 4 usually suffices for sucess.

The engine management stuff isn't so daunting either. The German fighters are fully automatic anyways. On the low level ground attack missions mixture setting isn't needed at all. All you've got to do is avoid running around at full throttle the entire mission and you won't blow the engine.

All that figured out then and 2x the points is worth it. Remember to get points it's more important to finish the mission sucesdfuly than shoot up a bunch of targets. In fact the longer you stay in action just increases the chance you'll get hit. So zap some targets and go home.

This mornings work for me was about 500 points in 45 minutes of play time.

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I've been reading this debate with interest and I can see both sides of the debate here. I have studied the campaign unlocks and note that mainly they are custom skins with some relatively minor armament upgrades. My question is this. Were all of these "extras" not extras at some point in time prior to "Release" and have been taken away to become part of a reward system incorporated into the Campaign? Or were they specifically promised as part of the on-going development to early adopters? There certainly is a huge sense of "entitlement" that exists otherwise. Just curious.

Edited by JohnHardtack

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I have to do same missions all over (go there,fetch that,kill him) and I have to grind for credits in Elite Dangerous to buy new ships and better equipment.The game forces me to do it.That sucks.I want to have all spaceships available NOW,I want freedom,I want variety  :biggrin:  :P

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Bearcat...I think what you meant to say was.....till the "goats" come home, not cows......right?   :biggrin:

 

Lol :lol:

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I have to do same missions all over (go there,fetch that,kill him) and I have to grind for credits in Elite Dangerous to buy new ships and better equipment.The game forces me to do it.That sucks.I want to have all spaceships available NOW,I want freedom,I want variety  :biggrin:  :P

 

Entirely separate concept.

 

In-game currencies are way different than mandatory XP grinds - you can spend your currencies on any ships or equipment that you want.

 

I am stuck doing Sturzkampf when I want to play my Ju87 with the Bordkanone - I do not have the option of spending the XP I've earned in the 109 to do that.

Edited by FalkeEins

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Plus in ED, you are not forced to one game mode. Imagine ED where you could only get money by completing bulletin missions and only in SP. That would be a pretty horrible concept.

 

But I highly doubt that unlocks are the main reason for lack of players. Last time I flew online, it was around 4:1 stacked in favor of one side and the MP mission had no objective, so it was down to vulching. It was no fun, no historical representation either, so I saw no reason to keep trying.

 

I'm sticking to QMB now, I enjoy doing that from time to time. I'll pay 10 EUR for the guy who unlocks my Stuka in 90 minutes btw.

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I've been reading this debate with interest and I can see both sides of the debate here. I have studied the campaign unlocks and note that mainly they are custom skins with some relatively minor armament upgrades. My question is this. Were all of these "extras" not extras at some point in time prior to "Release" and have been taken away to become part of a reward system incorporated into the Campaign? Or were they specifically promised as part of the on-going development to early adopters? There certainly is a huge sense of "entitlement" that exists otherwise. Just curious.

What's sorta amusing about people being "surprised" by the fact that there are unlocks in the game was that this was not only communicated in the developer diaries but If I remember correctly, your GUI screen in Early Access said "Unlocks" on it with little padlock icons on the optional equipment.

The EA people were given all the unlocks in order to test them obviously. Founders aparently are allowed to keep the planes that normal buyers now need to unlock in the campaign. The premium aircraft that are purchased don't need to be unlocked.

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I am stuck doing Sturzkampf when I want to play my Ju87 with the Bordkanone - I do not have the option of spending the XP I've earned in the 109 to do that.

No you can also attach gunpods and spray those artillery and trucks..or BK, and go tank busting..so there are kinda different options ;)

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I'll pay 10 EUR for the guy who unlocks my Stuka in 90 minutes btw.

Follow the advice above ;-) it's so easy it's boring. Seriously it's more fun to actually play the campaign than game it for points.

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I end up wanting to play BoS, then realize I have to unlock a bunch of equipment to be decently effective, get tired of trying to do that and go back to playing 1946.

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yeah a business really does need to stay dynamic to stay on top. i think the people have made their point, and unlocks, restrictions, etc really have to go.

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I end up wanting to play BoS, then realize I have to unlock a bunch of equipment to be decently effective, get tired of trying to do that and go back to playing 1946.

 

The unlocks were a terrible design decision, but you don't have to unlock a bunch of stuff to be effective.  In fact, you don't have to unlock anything to be effective.

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No you can also attach gunpods and spray those artillery and trucks..or BK, and go tank busting..so there are kinda different options ;)

After you've unlocked them. And everyone who is on a decently high "level" (which unfortunately seems to make the AAA a real killer) and tries to do that, knows how well that works.

 

I absolutely loved hunting tanks with the BK, when it was still possible. Since the locks, i'm desperately trying to get access to those BKs back and everytime i get hit by AAA, after a 20 minute flight to the target, feels like a slap in the face. Then i start thinking about using time compression, "short" missions, normal difficulty, just to make me progress faster and that just such a rediculous thought, that i would never have, if i got access to the unlocks in the first place. Because then i would have fun playing how i would like to play.

 

Ooops sorry, i'm off-topic, since this topic has been moved to free subject ("All discussions that are not directly related to IL2:BOS").

Edited by Matt

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Yes the big majority of our users have purchased outside of Steam. The appeal of Steam is still mixed among simmers. And yes we are more expensive on average compared to the other titles. The Goat Simulator is just a lark, but hell wish I had thought of it.

 

Jason

 

The answer is to give us some goats to strafe!

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What I mean by that advice is for players to give Expert a try. If you're after getting all the goodies as fast as possible, it's defintly the way to go and not as difficult as it might seem. First you're given waypoint indicators on your HUD and the targets show up on your O Map so navigating and finding targets especially on the ground is very easy. Stick to ground targets as the easiest fastest way.

Icons are certainly the biggest help in Normal but using the O Map it's pretty easy to find them. And you don't need to shoot up dozens of them. 4 usually suffices for sucess.

The engine management stuff isn't so daunting either. The German fighters are fully automatic anyways. On the low level ground attack missions mixture setting isn't needed at all. All you've got to do is avoid running around at full throttle the entire mission and you won't blow the engine.

All that figured out then and 2x the points is worth it. Remember to get points it's more important to finish the mission sucesdfuly than shoot up a bunch of targets. In fact the longer you stay in action just increases the chance you'll get hit. So zap some targets and go home.

This mornings work for me was about 500 points in 45 minutes of play time.

 

I have unlocked all but the last two skins for all the fighters and the IL2 ... and more than half for the Pe-2 and Stuka.. I may do the rest that way... but I have also unlocked all the airfields and actually finished the campaign.

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I end up wanting to play BoS, then realize I have to unlock a bunch of equipment to be decently effective, get tired of trying to do that and go back to playing 1946.

 

If you need the unlocks to be effective on the multiplayer, you're definately doing something wrong. 

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If you need the unlocks to be effective on the multiplayer, you're definately doing something wrong. 

More for ground attack with the La-5 with rockets. For dogfights, the only thing I'd say is essential is removing the unarmoured backplate of the F-4.

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More for ground attack with the La-5 with rockets. For dogfights, the only thing I'd say is essential is removing the unarmoured backplate of the F-4.

Hahaha the rockets are about the most useless weapons. Generally speaking the only good thing unguided rockets do in war is scare the &@&%% outa your enemies ;-)

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More for ground attack with the La-5 with rockets. For dogfights, the only thing I'd say is essential is removing the unarmoured backplate of the F-4.

 

Rockets are useless.

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That was an example. I'm currently trying to unlock the 37mm cannon on the Stukha so I can go tankbusting. Kind of a pain.

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Yeah those tanks can take a damn beating... I've dropped 1800 bombs nearby only to see the red dot still there lol

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