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Moggel

How to bind elevator trim to axis?

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Hi aces,

 

I'm giving IL2 BoS a try but I can't figure out how to bind the elevator trim to an axis. I always use my Saiteck Cessna trimwheel for this but the only option I seem to find in the settings is for keys, which is neither realistic nor much good. Am I missing something? 

 

Cheers,

Mog

Edited by Moggel

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It cannot be mapped to an axis. The only trim that can currently be mapped to an axis is the horizontal stabilizer used in the Bf 109s. 

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Seems RoF legacy, one plane (SE5a I think) have adjustable stabilizer, so was used as base for Bf 109.  ;)

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Seems RoF legacy, one plane (SE5a I think) have adjustable stabilizer, so was used as base for Bf 109.  ;)

 

Many planes in ROF use the adjustable stabilizer feature.

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The reason is that whatever control had buttons on the real aircraft will only have buttons in BoS too. So no axis in real no axis in BoS.

 

 

(E.G. He111 water rads can be bind to axis since they operated on a lever but button only for oil rads)

Edited by KG200_Volker

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The reason is that whatever control had buttons on the real aircraft will only have buttons in BoS too. So no axis in real no axis in BoS.

 

 

(E.G. He111 water rads can be bind to axis since they operated on a lever but button only for oil rads)

 

Thats an explanation.

 

Thanks

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The reason is that whatever control had buttons on the real aircraft will only have buttons in BoS too. So no axis in real no axis in BoS.

 

 

(E.G. He111 water rads can be bind to axis since they operated on a lever but button only for oil rads)

That is indeed a very good explanation. Guess I need to read up on Soviet war birds? :-)

Any links for more in-depth material would be greatly appreciated.

 

Cheers

Edited by Moggel

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Conversely, can the Bf 109 stabilizer be mapped to buttons?

 

Yes it works fine, you can have it to buttons and axis at the same time

 

Cheers Dakpilot

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The reason is that whatever control had buttons on the real aircraft will only have buttons in BoS too. So no axis in real no axis in BoS.

 

 

Fail theory. IL-2, Yak, LaGG, Stuka, He111 has controls in wheels (axis for games) - in the same way that Bf 109 control his statilizer -  that is not possible map in game unless in keys/buttons.

 

There's no logic in how it is applied to game, so just dont botter about and use as is. ;) And use that Saitek Trim Wheel to control... radiator's. :)

  • Upvote 2

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The "weel" controls is hard as choice to make it set to axis or buttons/keys. Since the weel needs more than one movement from the hand to operate, so that's why no axis for them. The 109 flaps need several turns to fully open or close, so if they let you bind it on an axis they ll be super fast. The button/key is to simulate the many rolls you ll do on this or any other weel. :)

Edited by KG200_Volker

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The "weel" controls is hard as choice to make it set to axis or buttons/keys. Since the weel needs more than one movement from the hand to operate, so that's why no axis for them. The 109 flaps need several turns to fully open or close, so if they let you bind it on an axis they ll be super fast. The button/key is to simulate the many rolls you ll do on this or any other weel. :)

 

That makes zero sense, especially considering we can map the 109's stabilizer trim to an axis. 

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am i wrong here but every control surface in these aeroplanes has a trim tab. thats the part that moves the opposite way to the way moved my the control stick input  get used, this in turn  helps deflect the moving surface from the pressure of the wind against it 

so why cant this be adjusted.. is it a game thing or ww 2 aeroplane thing

.......its just a servo, surly they had them in those days

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am i wrong here but every control surface in these aeroplanes has a trim tab. thats the part that moves the opposite way to the way moved my the control stick input  get used, this in turn  helps deflect the moving surface from the pressure of the wind against it 

so why cant this be adjusted.. is it a game thing or ww 2 aeroplane thing

.......its just a servo, surly they had them in those days

 

Historically, not all aircraft had trims for all control surfaces in WW2. Some had trim tabs only adjustable by ground crew on the ground, not in flight by the pilot. Some did not have tabs, but could adjust the entire stabilizer (Bf 109/Fw 190). BoS models trim to match what the planes really had and could use at that time.

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The reason is that whatever control had buttons on the real aircraft will only have buttons in BoS too. So no axis in real no axis in BoS.

 

 

(E.G. He111 water rads can be bind to axis since they operated on a lever but button only for oil rads)

 

Didn't the La-5 have a trim wheel? Trim should be assignable in two methods .. axis or button and that method should be coded into a specific aircraft.. so if an aircraft had a wheel then the axis works.. if it didn't then the buttons would work and the axis would not... I don't think that is how it works.

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All aircrafts ingame use wheel trim except for the Fw 190 (button trim) and the He 111 and the Peshka (static stick trim - would be a nice feauture to add btw.). So technically the current trim contorll approach makes absolutely no sense.

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 Peshka (static stick trim - would be a nice feauture to add btw.)

 

 

Pe-2 "sticks" - momentarily (on)-of-(on) switch - for trim (elevator/rudder/aileron) are animated, or they work as expected.  :)

 

Pe_2_trim.jpg
 

 

 

So technically the current trim contorll approach makes absolutely no sense.

 

This. Use "as is".  :good: 

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My bad than, wasn't sure about the peshka :) Thx for the headsup.

 

So the Peshka and Fw 190 are the only planes ingame with legitimated button trim. All other should (technically) be adjustable via axis.

  • Upvote 1

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My bad than, wasn't sure about the peshka :) Thx for the headsup.

 

So the Peshka and Fw 190 are the only planes ingame with legitimated button trim. All other should (technically) be adjustable via axis.

 

 

Trim on all planes should be done  with both, axis and buttons. The current system is retarded.

Edited by Jaws2002
  • Upvote 3

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Trim on all planes should be done  with both, axis and buttons. The current system is retarded.

 

 

Dear developers, is there any chance you will support the Saitek/Cessna trim wheel. ?

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I find the lack of trim choice in all the flight sims (COD, BOS and DCS)  I play a real pain.  We can't all have the historicity correct controllers for all the AC we can fly. The very fact  that I need a different method to do the same thing (use flaps or trim,ext)  makes changing from one AC to another a real chore. When flying COD online (sorry haven't flow BOS or anything else much lately) and the ailed team are helplessly outnumbered it's some times just too hard to switch from my BF109 to a Spit or Hurricane due to controller set up.  Add to that metric to imperial gauges and things get confusing real quick.

 

 The purists can always make replica cockpits and controllers but for the majority of players the ability to assign an axis to their choice of controller (button,slider or rotary wheel) should be up to us.  

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Dear developers, is there any chance you will support the Saitek/Cessna trim wheel. ?

It's already supported, but only works on the 109, afaik.

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Dear developers, is there any chance you will support the Saitek/Cessna trim wheel. ?

 

 

Answered recently there - in short: Not planed. ;)  http://forum.il2sturmovik.ru/topic/2965-voprosy-razrabotchikam-2/?do=findComment&comment=296299

 

 

 

... it's some times just too hard to switch from my BF109 to a Spit or Hurricane due to controller set up.

 

Easy to solve in "that" game (what controls, despite a bit confuse due dozen of unused functions, is very flexible, in some ways more than DCS) , controls allow save individual profiles, just name then as appropriated, e.g. Bf. 109, Spit... and load when need - what can be done include during flight, what take just few seconds.  ;) 

Edited by Sokol1

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Dear developers, is there any chance you will support the Saitek/Cessna trim wheel. ?

 

I Merlin. You Can use the Saitek Smart Technology profile editor to create a profile. At this link you can read the manual. In particular, you have to follow these steps:

Axis (rotaries, thumb wheels etc) Programming Options

"The first step for programming an axis is to set it to banded mode. In the Profile Editor right click on the appropriate axis (or left click the small arrow on the right of the axis cell) and choose Bands from the drop-down list. The cell will now be split horizontally into three equal bands each occupying 33% of the cell., etc....."

 

I hope to be as helpful :biggrin:

Regards

Fabio

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This dividing the axis in three band only will make the Trim Wheel work as on/off switch pressing one key if turn up, other if turn down...

 

And is need move the Trim Wheel to center to stop the press... result more awkward than press a HAT or buttons for trim.

 

And as trim response in BoS is "The Flash", try use the Trim Wheel in this way probable result in all trim up, all trim down.  :biggrin:  

 

Better use this Trim Wheel for other function (radiators...) and use "the digital trim" (key/button/HAT) as "analog trim" is not option.  ;)

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This dividing the axis in three band only will make the Trim Wheel work as on/off switch pressing one key if turn up, other if turn down...

 

And is need move the Trim Wheel to center to stop the press... result more awkward than press a HAT or buttons for trim.

 

And as trim response in BoS is "The Flash", try use the Trim Wheel in this way probable result in all trim up, all trim down.  :biggrin:  

 

Better use this Trim Wheel for other function (radiators...) and use "the digital trim" (key/button/HAT) as "analog trim" is not option.  ;)

 

Hi Sokol,

you can also divide the bands in 100 parts. You have to create 49+1+49 bands from 1% each except the middle value that should have 2% (49%+49%+2%=100% :biggrin: ). In each band then checks the default features "RCtrl+CursorDown" and "RCtrl+CursorUp"(first 49 with "RCtrl+CursorDown" - second 49 with "RCtrl+CursorUp"). The middle band must be left without assignment. And to reset the trim, you can set a button on your joystick. This's the only way to use the Saitek hardware with functions that haven't axis. Try it. Excuse my bad English.

Regards

Fabio

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Understand. The doubt is, when the axis cursor enter in - for example - band # 10, the keypress send is momentary or continuous?

 

If are continuous, is need use bands alternate - for example - band 1 (after center position) send keypress, band 2 no, band 3 send... etc? Similar to mouse scroll. 

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Understand. The doubt is, when the axis cursor enter in - for example - band # 10, the keypress send is momentary or continuous?

 

If are continuous, is need use bands alternate - for example - band 1 (after center position) send keypress, band 2 no, band 3 send... etc? Similar to mouse scroll. 

 

I Sokol. Read this:

New Advanced Commands

When you select the New Advanced Command option a new window opens with three sections. Each section represents a different state of the button to which you are assigning the Advanced Command. Any keystroke sequence in the Press row will happen when you press the button the command is assigned to.

Any keystrokes that are in the repeat row will happen as long as you keep the buttonto which they are assigned held down.

Any keystrokes in the release column will happen as soon as you release the button that the Advanced Command is assigned to. However, the difference with the release row is that, by default, any multiple keystrokes will act like a macro and happen automatically without you holding any keys down.

Unlike the other keystroke input windows, when pressed, each key places two instances of the key in the command input window. This is because when you press a key on a keyboard it actually produces two signals - one when you press it and another when you let go.

21_advanced_sm.gifUnlike the other views of keystroke sequences, you will notice that each keypress has a figure underneath which represents the time in seconds from when you pressed the first key in the sequence. In the example you can see that the S key was held down for 0.032 seconds and the D key for 0.048 seconds (0.216 -0.168) .

For example, with the Advanced Editor you could set a command that launches a missile when you press the button. It might then switch to a camera view of the missile and then 4.5 seconds later switch to a camera view of the enemy. When you let go of the button it could switch back to your cockpit view.

This is just a hypothetical example but it gives you an idea of the possibilities open to you with the Advanced Editor.

Tip: You can easily set the sequence of keystrokes to function as a Macro by ticking the Macro box at the top right of each row.

 

Tip: To adjust the keystroke sequence timings, left click on the key you wish to adjust, then right click and select Set Delay. Now enter the exact time after at which you want the keystroke to activate. Note, this is the time elapsed since the first key in the sequence was pressed.

Delete Unused Commands: When programming keypresses to buttons you may create more commands than you actually end up using. When you're happy with the commands you've input for all the buttons in all the modes and shiftstates, if you click on Delete Unused Commands the programming software will detect and list all commands not in use and give you the option to delete them. Please note, you can only delete the commands you have created.

The commands we have created previously are listed beneath the Delete Unused Commands menu item. We can either reuse these when programming other buttons, or choose to delete them individually or all together.

 

Regards

 

:salute:

 

Fabio

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just revisiting this for first time since I posted, thanks Fabio I will give that a go.

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I Merlin. You Can use the Saitek Smart Technology profile editor to create a profile. At this link you can read the manual. In particular, you have to follow these steps:

Axis (rotaries, thumb wheels etc) Programming Options

"The first step for programming an axis is to set it to banded mode. In the Profile Editor right click on the appropriate axis (or left click the small arrow on the right of the axis cell) and choose Bands from the drop-down list. The cell will now be split horizontally into three equal bands each occupying 33% of the cell., etc....."

 

I hope to be as helpful :biggrin:

Regards

Fabio

Thank You Sir  :salute: I've not tested it yet. I'm pretty sure You saved me for a lot of time and trouble in that one, I thought I had pretty good insight in the profile editor, this revealed an illusion. I'm trying to set up the controllers for BOS and make it more like my already established habits, wise or not.

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Thank You Sir  :salute: I've not tested it yet. I'm pretty sure You saved me for a lot of time and trouble in that one, I thought I had pretty good insight in the profile editor, this revealed an illusion. I'm trying to set up the controllers for BOS and make it more like my already established habits, wise or not.

;)

 

:salute:

 

Fabio

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am i wrong here but every control surface in these aeroplanes has a trim tab. thats the part that moves the opposite way to the way moved my the control stick input get used, this in turn helps deflect the moving surface from the pressure of the wind against it

so why cant this be adjusted.. is it a game thing or ww 2 aeroplane thing

.......its just a servo, surly they had them in those days

Unfortunately many AC from the period have fixed trim tabs which can only be adjusted on the ground. This is for one or more of the flight axis.

 

The German fighters have stabilizer trim but not, technically, elevator trim. Aileron and rudder trim is ground adjustable only. This means the AC is properly trimmed only at cruise speeds. Anything else requires good old muscle power and constant control surface input.

 

I am less familiar with the Russian birds but some have adjustable trim while others are ground adjustable like their adversaries.

 

I haven't a clue about bombers.

 

I'm sure someone familiar will be along shortly to either correct me or fill in the blanks.

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I haven't a clue about bombers.

 

Both the Pe-2 and the He 111 have adjustable pitch, roll, and yaw trim. In fact, one of the things that made the Pe-2 revolutionary in the Soviet Union is that it was among the first planes to have electrically-controlled trim surfaces (along with a lot of other equipment in the plane). 

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Just re-installed and wanting to give things a try.  During setting up I spent ages wondering why something as simple as trim cannot be bound to an analogue control, as what the aircraft of the time would have had, only to find this.  Flabbergasted and very disappointed.......

 

What happens when VR is supported?  Since there is no clickable pit is one expected to fumble around the keyboard?

Edited by Osprey

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Use your HOTAS HAT's - that things used in WWII control sticks for control trim, landing gear, flaps, open/close canopy, radiators and etc - like >90% of virpilots do, even without VR's.   ;)   :)

Edited by Sokol1

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All the time, we flew IL2 we flew with elevator trim, because the power in stick changes due to the speed of flight - if you dive it changes with gaining speed  - it mean, you must change the trim during (fight) flight allways and usualy more sensitively than stick, therefore it must (always) be on some lever - without this, you just fight with powers in own stick (stupid) in real flight and also in simulation. And why this happens? Lift and drag are dependable on speed. The more speed, the more lift and drag, therefore in higher speed nose goes up and you need to compensate this pressing on stick. And you cant shoot anything - if you fight power in your stick. To eliminate this powers, enabling you to aim more accurately, there is smoothly adjustable trim  ([Edited]). And!!!!! You use trim during flight to make more sharp maneuvers. Or in book Flying circus for example, Clostermann tells his story how he saves his life, leveling his high speed dive  flight in only by using trim very gently. So...lift changes with speed. If I fly slow I´m pulling trim to hold elevator up (little trim surface on elevator goes down and pulls elevator up) nose up (slower speed means less lift, therefore I need biger angle of atack at wing leading edge, cos the more curved path of air flow  - bigger angle of attack -  the more lift). And if I am pursuing someone, slightly decline, I´m pushing trim continuosly forvard - fast flight means too much lift - so I need compensate it pulling small trim surface up, pressing elevator down, pulling nose down. So my stick is in neutral possition, airplane flies exactly where I want and there are no or small powers in stick - so I can control the aircraft accurate in combat. Aim my cross hair exactly where I want (at engine for example) hold it there for a while during shooting. I bought this game in believe, it will be simulator as old IL 2 was. But it seems, despite good graphics, its far from that. (Its not possible to fly real airplane or glider without adjustable trim) So, what now? [Edited] Maybe they will return me my money?

Edited by Bearcat
Profanity towards developers.

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So, what now? This idiots wont fix it I think. Maybe they will return me my money?

After asking so nicely, I'll bet they will. :P

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