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-DED- Server's. From Russia with Love ;)


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Guy's, I love you both but the 262 clearly broke the server.

 

The 262 is a wonderful aircraft and has a place in Expert Servers, Offline and Scenario based play. With an icon based server, however, it was simply overkill. You know I'm a dedicated Luftie so this is not an Allied or Allied vs Axis argument from me (until the American iron hits anyway - then probably 50/50). I think the bans for you (Ray and Cujo) were wholly unjustified and I'm very sorry it was abused. I think it was more reactionary to the AC, not to you individually. Accordingly, I don't anticipate any further ban wars and know from discussions that there shouldn't be any further AC restrictions beyond the 262 either. In the long run this is not a purely historical server and gameplay/action is the overall guiding principal. There is balance with the prop AC lineup because each side has a focus on different capabilities and pilots can find success when they fly to their AC strengths - regardless of side. Prior to the 262 you knew you had a fight if you could handle your plane, even in/vs most of the twins.

 

Opinion:

DED Normal needs moderators to fly on the server, even if it's only part time volunteers, to ensure there is some civility to the gameplay. Maybe have access to server restarts and have Ban/UN-ban authority. We have drifted closer to the WT crowd, personality wise, in the last few months. The taunting and poor sports have fractured the DED Normal community much more than the 262 issue. This is even more disturbing than the inclusion/exclusion of a particular airframe. It is, without doubt, the primary reason I have flown so little in August. 

 

I wonder if they would be open to Community Moderators? I can think of a few good candidates (I might not be one as I can get a little chippy at times as well :) )

 

Back on topic:

The DED guys can't address FM's as that is up to the Dev's but they can keep a sense of fair play regarding aircraft sets. The Spit overperforms but so do several versions of the 109. Again, that is a Dev issue, not a DED issue. The 262 just takes this to the extreme, performance-wise, and it was not good for gameplay. We have, generally, had a very good community on this server. I enjoy(ed) flying with and against almost everyone here. A few interlopers (both pilots and AC type) have come into the fold and disrupted this. I'm hoping to get back to a sense of chivalry and good gamesmanship as we have had, generally, up to a couple of months ago. I'm taking a break until the new American rides arrive and will re-evaluate at that time.

 

I hope to see all of you guys again and I hope to see you having fun on the server. I am always happy to wing up with you, steal a kill or give a kill, and chat you up either here or there. I'm hoping you feel the same.

 

Murf

 

Edited by II/JG17_HerrMurf
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1 hour ago, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

DED Normal needs moderators to fly on the server

 

DED Normal needs only server permanently working, adding more ground targets and massive targets for carpet bombing (lot of trucks and other stuff giving points - now using Ju 88 or He 111 with the biggest bombs is pointless because Bf 110 or Il-2 can destroy much more targets in a single sortie) - it would also cancel stupid one sortie mission-ending (some missions last only 5 minutes with many targets left to destroy). Ergo: No moderators needed - only somobody involved with server making has to read this part of forum.

 

1 hour ago, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

The 262 just takes this to the extreme, performance-wise, and it was not good for gameplay.

 

Yes, if it starts from airstart far away from the frontline. I propose to put Me 262 on the map with airfields near frontline, starting only from runway. It takes much time to reach proper speed and altitude, so it can be used in restricted numbers. 

Edited by Blackmessiah1975
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5 minutes ago, Blackmessiah1975 said:

 

DED Normal needs only server permanently working, adding more ground targets and massive targets for carpet bombing (lot of trucks and other stuff giving points - now using Ju 88 or He 111 with the biggest bombs is pointless because Bf 110 or Il-2 can destroy much more targets in a single sortie) - it would also cancel stupid one sortie mission-ending (some missions last only 5 minutes with many targets left to destroy). Ergo: No moderators needed - only somobody involved with server making has to read this part of forum.

 

These are two completely different issues. I agree with your gameplay analysis, to an extent, but wholly disagree with your moderator position for the reasons stated above.

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44 minutes ago, Blackmessiah1975 said:

Yes, if it starts from airstart far away from the frontline. I propose to put Me 262 on the map with airfields near frontline, starting only from runway. It takes much time to reach proper speed and altitude, so it can be used in restricted numbers. 

 

What you describe was tested, almost exactly as you suggest (as part of a bigger mission build test):

 

A mission limit of 2x Me262, parked at a rear field. Within a few minutes our first 262 pilot had reached an air start reserved for Battle of Kuban era aircraft:

 

http://ohmydog.mooo.com:8080/en/sortie/9603/?tour=3

 

When he was at ~800m he shot down another player (who had just very skillfuly flown a sustained guns-D), almost direcly under the air start. Melting the Spitfire VB's engine in a dive I went down 3000m in seconds. He was pulling away as I levelled out. I finished in flight:

 

http://ohmydog.mooo.com:8080/en/sortie/9612/?tour=3

 

I have to go with the evidence of my own eyes. I had hoped to rehabilitate the Me262 but holding it back on a more distant field, forcing a full engine start, making it climb and and limiting numbers just don't address the issue of one sided combat. If weapons and armour loadout, fuel load and mods controls were readily available I'd consider having a version loaded out for JaBo or bomber interception, but not this freehunting set up we see whenever its available.

 

I'm done with it for now.

 

I've asked this question to several people today, whilst considering how to respond to CUJO_1970 and RAYEU: how messed up would Il-2 have to be before the 262 became a balancing influence?

 

I want them to be able to fly what they want, but not at any cost.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Complaining about plane balance is without sense on Normal settings. Typical B'nZ planes like Fw's and Bf's lose its advantage because T'n'Z plane can easily react Blue dives due to external views and icons. In other words, Red planes have greater situational assessement plus greater maneuverability. In addition, I will never understand how Spit IX or La-5 can keep Fw 190 speed after hard turn while Fw 190 flies almost straight. Mystery like no overheating Spit IX engine in long Fw 190 chase (over 10 minutes of full throttle). But ok, we are on Normal server. Let's forget it.

 

 

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In addition, I find the stats ranking points system/algorithm is a little bit stupid. I know the key is to survive and gain some points but I've played Kuban once then Lapino map. On Kuban as always I gained big ranking points for destroying the ships and reached rank 1090K points. Then I was on Lapino map where I destroyed 7 airfield objects for 35 points - no death. My rank after Lapino shows 1089K, so it was decreased despite of not being shot down or bailed out. Landed safely. For me it doesn't work properly.

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  • 3 weeks later...
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5 hours ago, -DED-Rapidus said:

The plane was removed at the request of the pilots. Why ask for it back?

 

There was no vote or any request for a vote at any time. So, it was not really requested by all pilots, just some that decided that they would speak for the entire community without asking and then determined everyone should be in compliance with their personal feelings. As a result, this the only major server with the 262 completely banned from the server. Not limited, but completely excluded.

 

I can assure you that many of us who fly regularly on this server were surprised and very disappointed that it was banned completely and without warning (or request to the community as a whole) - an aircraft we all paid for and looked forward to flying. Whoever asked you to remove the 262 does NOT speak for, or represent everyone on the server in any way. I'm sorry if it was presented to you that the pilots requested it to be removed. That is not the truth.

 

Please consider returning it to the server - at least on some maps, if not all. This would be understandable at least.

 

Thank you for your consideration.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by CUJO_1970
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Okay, about the me-262, we'll decide later what to do next. -DED-Zlodey launched the server, with the historical plainset. Truth on maps Lapino left all so,as on a normal server.

The server has the name: Planes and Tanks Historical Planeset (Markers) by DED (test historic planeset)

Server stats: http://91.109.201.96:8080/

Edited by -DED-Rapidus
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I can see you've been taking lessons in misrepresentation.

 

On 10/15/2019 at 8:07 PM, CUJO_1970 said:

So, it was not really requested by all pilots, just some that decided that they would speak for the entire community without asking and then determined everyone should be in compliance with their personal feelings.

 

It was me. You already know. Everyone does.

 

On 9/2/2019 at 1:15 AM, CUJO_1970 said:

Nice job getting the 262 completely removed from the server. No number limits, no airfield restrictions or on limited maps only...completely removed.

 

Those who paid for this aircraft and enjoyed flying online do not appreciate it.

 

Don't pretent. It's undignified.

 

I have gone to the Russian forum when people have asked me, and when noone else has spoken up. I have politely requested the addition of the D-9, repairing of the stats page, the restart of the server. I have expressed the thanks of many for the value we place on having a place to play. Why didn't you challenge me on my lack of democratic mandate?

 

Ruthless_Killer may have removed all his posts, including the griefing, the defamation of character and the challenges to stand up to him, but they were well-witnessed.

 

On 10/15/2019 at 8:07 PM, CUJO_1970 said:

I can assure you that many of us who fly regularly on this server were surprised and very disappointed that it was banned completely and without warning

 

lol

 

Really? Would you like to borrow some butter to help that assurance go all the way in?

 

On 10/15/2019 at 8:07 PM, CUJO_1970 said:

we all paid

 

Yes, we all did.

 

Those with the cheaper plane sets, and those who chose to fly Soviet planes paid more than others. It was putting off regular players. Some Axis pilots also supported this view, and on this forum. That's why I asked on behalf of most of the reasonable people who enjoy this server for it to be taken out. Love that entitlement btw. Goes perfectly with the smarm offensive.

 

On 7/1/2019 at 6:25 PM, CUJO_1970 said:

Also, I would like to sincerely apologize for my rampant 262 use on this server. I'm simply having way too much fun flying it. I can't put it down.

 

I also enjoy flying circles around AeroAce's Spitfire in it.

 

I also spoke up during the recent ban war which resulted in many requesting the removal of the Me262. When it started I was still trying to encourage rational debate on the subject. The opinion I gave on the Russian forum was arrived at at the end of a debate you ignored except when you mocked it.

 

Here's your homework: Race back up through this thread, see if you can find any suggestion from anyone about having an open and respectful conversation and maybe edit all your posts accusing red bias:

 

On 5/13/2019 at 3:46 PM, Johnny-Red said:

A word to the wise: the bad vibes here are stifling rational debate. It would benefit the community this server maintains if we could leave out some of the more inflammatory and unsubstantiated statements. Engage constructively with the "other" please. You may discover some common ground.

 

I was polite enough to not address you directly. Was I too obtuse?

 

Deep fake amnesiac.

 

PS: It may amuse you to learn, as your grasp on what has happened in the recent past is so tenuous; I (respectfully) withdrew my personal objection to the Me262 based on the sadly shattered morale of the Axis player base. I had always said I wished to see the Me262 rehabilitated when the time was right. I acted in good faith. As always, you ignored the fact.

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3 hours ago, Johnny-Red said:

I can see you've been taking lessons in misrepresentation.

 

Nope, sorry to say it happened pretty much exactly how I said it did.

 

3 hours ago, Johnny-Red said:

I have gone to the Russian forum when people have asked me, and when noone else has spoken up. I have politely requested the addition of the D-9, repairing of the stats page, the restart of the server. I have expressed the thanks of many for the value we place on having a place to play. Why didn't you challenge me on my lack of democratic mandate?

 

Thank you for your service. We need you on that wall.

 

Running over to the Russian forum is one thing. You overstepping your actual place is something altogether. As far as "why didn't you challenge me on my lack of democratic mandate" (whatever that means) the answer is this:

 

It's because you are a nobody. You don't run the server, nor do you decide what we can and cannot fly. (well, at least not any more 🙂 )

 

3 hours ago, Johnny-Red said:

Ruthless_Killer

 

Ah, this weak Ruthless_Killer excuse again, which is actually completely irrelevant to the 262 inclusion on the server. It speaks to individual player discipline instead of plane selection, because we all know you don't ban the La5FN or Spitfire when allied pilots switch sides from those planes and team kill. In any event, I've never personally witnessed any rule breaking from Ruthless_Killer and you did a weak job of making your case about him when he flew 262.

 

It also seems Ruthless_Killer was only a big problem for your group when he was flying the 262. When he had even better results on allied side in the Spitfire all last month than he had with 262 - not even a whimper from you guys.

 

Interesting, isn't it?

 

And no action has ever been taken when Allied side is well documented to engage in the same antics over and over including switching sides to Axis and team killing. All without a righteous vote to ban, just a shrug and a wave off and business as usual. Oh well. Ban any allied aircraft due to player behavior? No?

 

So, please forgive me for your very selective sense of justice.

 

3 hours ago, Johnny-Red said:

Don't pretent. It's undignified.

 

You're right. So let me be clear: your one-sided hypocrisy and overinflated sense of self worth with regard to the server make you among the least qualified to engage in any representative capacity. Hope that helps.

 

3 hours ago, Johnny-Red said:

Really? Would you like to borrow some butter to help that assurance go all the way in?

 

:music: Thanks for making my point for me, Johnny.

 

3 hours ago, Johnny-Red said:

That's why I asked on behalf of most of the reasonable people who enjoy this server for it to be taken out.

 

By reasonable you mean only the ones that agree with your point of view.

 

So, you presumed to speak upon behalf of the 4-500 people who fly on the server without anyone knowing it. Not with the result of a balanced solution, but with a complete ban - the only larger server to do such a thing. Somehow the other servers managed to cope through this crisis, and it's probably because they didn't have someone like you contributing to a situation where the tail wags the dog. (In this illustration you represent the tail)

 

Many people flying blue were very surprised and disappointed and didn't even know what you were up to.

 

3 hours ago, Johnny-Red said:

Love that entitlement btw. Goes perfectly with the smarm offensive.

 

Interesting that you consider answering a direct question to me from one of the server admins as "entitlement",  I would consider interjecting yourself as such.

 

Probably it was the bright light being shown on the fact that this wasn't really a community decision after all.

 

3 hours ago, Johnny-Red said:

I also spoke up during the recent ban war

 

There was no "ban war". Please stop.

 

There were just those on allied side arbitrarily banning people (other that Ruthless_Killer) for simply flying the 262 - an airplane that was in no way against the rules, that was provided on the server by the server admins to fly just as every plane released by the developers and paid for by the customers had been up to that point.

 

So - no war - simply people being banned and kicked off of the server for doing nothing wrong. It seems you had a part to play in that and it's interesting what you choose to be selectively outraged about.

 

3 hours ago, Johnny-Red said:

The opinion I gave on the Russian forum was arrived at at the end of a debate you ignored except when you mocked it.

 

This is not the Russian forum. There was no debate here and you will not be able to provide any example of me mocking any debate about the inclusion or limitation of the 262 on the server. (Because there wasn't one)

 

What there actually was...was frustration expressed by several - and rightfully so - for being banned and kicked from the server for doing nothing wrong. And then to find out on top of it all, someone worked behind the scenes to get the 262 banned completely. This you dismiss as "mocking".

 

4 hours ago, Johnny-Red said:

Here's your homework

 

You don't get to assign anyone homework here.

 

4 hours ago, Johnny-Red said:

Deep fake amnesiac.

 

:music: sticks and stones, Johnny. Keep it up.

 

4 hours ago, Johnny-Red said:

PS: It may amuse you to learn, as your grasp on what has happened in the recent past is so tenuous; I (respectfully) withdrew my personal objection to the Me262

 

You didn't withdraw your objection, you reaffirmed it:

 

On 9/2/2019 at 7:07 PM, Johnny-Red said:

 

I'm done with it for now.

 

I've asked this question to several people today, whilst considering how to respond to CUJO_1970 and RAYEU: how messed up would Il-2 have to be before the 262 became a balancing influence?

 

 

And this,

 

4 hours ago, Johnny-Red said:

I (respectfully) withdrew my personal objection to the Me262 based on the sadly shattered morale of the Axis player base. I had always said I wished to see the Me262 rehabilitated

 

That's rich Johnny, and no such thing happened with the "Axis player base". What was it you were saying about mocking?

 

"rehabilitated" 🤔

 

 

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Yeah, all that stuff you just posted:

 

I think you may have been misinformed or just be behind with the news:

 

On 10/15/2019 at 10:17 PM, Johnny-Red said:

Можем ли мы попросить администраторов попробовать то же самое? Я знаю, что это разворот, но, возможно, мне пора выбраться из окопа. Мне бы очень хотелось увидеть, как Me262 поднимается, чтобы преследовать строй бомбардировщиков, или бросает вызов зенитным орудиям на высоте деревьев, чтобы ударить по мосту или топливному депо.


Для Me262 потребуется отредактировать спавн, чтобы он был припаркован и размещен на самом дальнем аэродроме и был ограничен от 2 до 4.

 

From Google Translate:

 

"10/15/2019 at 22:17, Johnny-Red said:

     Can we ask administrators to try the same? I know this is a U-turn, but maybe I should get out of the trench. I would really like to see Me262 rise to pursue a system of bombers, or defy anti-aircraft guns at the height of trees to hit a bridge or fuel depot.


    
For Me262, you need to edit the spawn so that it is parked and placed at the farthest airfield and limited from 2 to 4."

 

Like I said before, you always assume bad faith, and act accordingly.

 

On the subject of broken morale, it wasn't meant to be back-handed. I just don't like to see the Axis players regularly outnumbered two to one. I don't want to see player numbers decline overall and I don't want to see one faction or the other crash or lose its vitality.

 

It's likely because many American Axis players have now taken up the P51 and P38. Some former LW powergamers can't resist the Spitfire and Tempest and many veteran Axis players who previously relied on the D-9's speed and K-4's speed and climb now find themselves far more exposed. There's no personal triumph for me in that. I'd like to see a vigorous and capable Axis player base.
 

_______________________________

 

And then there's the server bully. Are the Allies delighted he's flying Spitfires and Mustangs? Do we love him because we are the "bests"? Do you think we believe he's making the skies safe for the "good guys"? lol

 

He's still a troll and a griefer - nothing has changed for me on that subject. His trying to clean up after himself or engage with people he thinks might be useful just further reinforce my original perception. I don't care which side he flies for. He suppresses enjoyment wherever he goes. I don't want to meet Axis fliers, punch drunk from his constant drubbing.

 

I have previously expressed my solidarity with you when you experienced personal griefing. I advised you on how to proceed if you wished to complain. I did that in friendship, not because I'm the big man. I'm sorry you don't recall.

 

Thank you for quoting me when I said "I'm done with it now".

 

Nobody :friends:

 

 

 

Edited by Johnny-Red
I just learned to spell "suppresses"
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OK, I see what you did there with the so called "reasonable point of view" thing. Sneaky. Very sneaky.

 

My head's going both ways on this:

 

I still think a lot of issues with the the 262 can be remedied through careful mission design. More than any other aircraft in Il-2, the Me262 needs a clear cut mission for every single flight in order to function closer to its historical counterpart.

 

If we end up back at 262's circling player spawns there'll be hell to pay, and this time I'll be happy to stand back and let nature find it's own level.

Edited by Johnny-Red
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7 hours ago, Ruthless_Killer said:

It happened again. Flying on SpockOddSock's server. Was just minding my own business, shot down a couple planes. One of the players I had shot down called me lucky or something to which I responded: "no luck needed u make it easy for me" (tongue in cheek of course, wouldn't want to hurt anyone's feelings). Boom instantly kicked&banned. Predictably the guy who actually started it didn't get kicked. Few mins later my wingman joined. He had barely loaded in when he got banned as well for absolutely no reason.

it was me, I called you lucky since you got me twice, really fast - with what I consider to be luck. don't know how exactly that "starts" anything and why I should fear any repercussions for that.

 

regarding your ban: I assume there is a story prior to that? I mean, I don't know you since I haven't played in quite a while (am only getting back a little since they fixed this overdue sound bug thing) but from what I red here, you don't exactly seem to be the most beloved member of the community. personally, I have had no business with you except for that "lucky incident" so that's that.

 

btw, wrong thread, since it didnt happen on the DED server. here's the correct thread:

 

Edited by EpeeNoire
typo
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On 10/18/2019 at 9:13 AM, II/JG17_HerrMurf said:

The 262 is bad for a Normal dogfight server. The performance gap between the prop aircraft means the better pilot usually wins. The 262 is nearly untouchable. Fly it on larger historical maps or offline. It has no place here. It's just that simple.

 

Go "fly it on larger historical maps or offline". So, people who fly Normal settings are simply invited to leave? Wow.

 

That's no solution at all.

 

"Here's a box full of Mustangs, Tempests and Lightnings boys, along with all the 150 grade fuel and +11 lbs boost you want. Fly it to your heart's content! As for you Axis flyers, we won't be allowing the 262 here because it's too fast so go fly somewhere else if you don't like it"

 

Ridiculous.

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262 and P-51 on 150 is no comparison at all. It just isn’t - historically or in game - unless the 262 is on short final. I don’t want Gladiators or Mig-15’s or F-35’s either. There is no viable reason to see props vs jets until we get to Korea sometime in the distant future or we suddenly get waves of viermots blackening the skies.......also unlikely in a Normal dogfight server. I respect you as a pilot but this subject is blinding you in terms of playability for the players at large.

Edited by II/JG17_HerrMurf
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8 hours ago, CUJO_1970 said:

 

Go "fly it on larger historical maps or offline". So, people who fly Normal settings are simply invited to leave? Wow.

 

That's no solution at all.

 

"Here's a box full of Mustangs, Tempests and Lightnings boys, along with all the 150 grade fuel and +11 lbs boost you want. Fly it to your heart's content! As for you Axis flyers, we won't be allowing the 262 here because it's too fast so go fly somewhere else if you don't like it"

 

Ridiculous.

 

No one in this thread is inviting you to leave. Everyone who is opposed to the 262, in this thread, is actually not defending the unjust banning that took place either. You are more than welcome to fly the very competitive German AC without having the 262 which is so far off the performance scale it is in it's own category. And while we are at it, over my and other's objections, the 262 is again available in limited numbers on OMD.

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Another big advantage factor is the Physiology roll that the the Anti G-Suits that are equipment with the P51 and I don’t know if other allied planes are equipment and axis planes never were equipment or had . Meanwhile axis lost control for unconsciousness  in axis planes , P51 pilots keep the consciousness to control planes for the anti G-suits .

 

4AE92A03-4E76-49DD-8D3F-34AFA26457C8.jpeg
USA allied Pilot with G-suit .

 

Vs Axis Pilot without Anti G-suit . That’s an important factor in Physiology that determine the victory in a dogfighting roll . Surprise the GAME OVER !

The last definitely  Knockout! .

5FA06574-0EB9-4983-8BD3-6670F03C1104.jpeg

Edited by RAY-EU
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  • 2 weeks later...
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Mr. @Ruthless_Killer ,thank you for your important message. In any controversial situation, it is important for us that honest players do not suffer. I'm asking you to take tracks from the game and videos of events. The track's will speed up the process of studying the problem.

Edited by -DED-Rapidus
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Is Kuban map out? I saw Venlo and Maykop maps are introduced on server, but there is no Kuban. Actually, it had stupid victory conditions. In addition, I think score counting is ridiculous as the pilot who destroyed few ships earns thousands of points opposite to real ace fighter who doesn't die earning only hundreds points for killing enemies. I think WoL and OMDog servers have better score counting. Just my two cents.

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I went online last night to see if there were any SU-122's in play and I noticed the server has It's lost its Normal Difficulty icon (in the server browser).

Also I noticed the bombing assist is disabled. Is it possible that it was turned off by accident? Could you reinstate Normal difficulty presets?

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On 11/30/2019 at 2:03 AM, Tyggz said:

Is it possible that it was turned off by accident? Could you reinstate Normal difficulty presets?

there are fans,who like the rapid in the briefing, and the preset normal does not allow access to switch off  "exit  to the briefing without landings". second, I think next week we will disable the option of premature closure of the map

Edited by -DED-Rapidus
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