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-DED- Server's. From Russia with Love ;)


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Look at the stats - server participation is actually increasing not decreasing - there have been well over 500 peak players at any one time this month.

 

More players playing on this server than in May by a decent margin.

 

The limiting fun factor here is not the 262, it is server availability (or lack thereof) and the sound bug.

Edited by CUJO_1970
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In no particular order:

 

On 11/7/2018 at 8:45 AM, 3.IAP_Vasilij said:

Since the Spit IX was released 80 percent of allied forces fly this plane.

 

  • 3.IAP_Vasilij - You have lobbied against the Spitfire on this server since November last year, and now the 262 too.

That said, you haven't excluded yourself from flying either the Spitfire IXe or 262 this month. What's that about?

What's the deal with the Spitfire? We know it's well armed and easy to fly: Is it like Epee says; that it makes average (unworthy) pilots more successful; or that it makes an above average pilots a real pain in the ass?

Carrying around a “BAN THE SPITFIRE” placard whilst conspicuously ignoring the G-14, A-8, K-4 and D-9. I'd call that “funny”.

7 months after your inaugural post and you've doubled your membership (see below):

 

  • Epee – At least you recognise 262 saturation for the menace it is.

 

I'm confused by your bundling it with the rather dissimilar Spitfire though. I've heard you mention the Spitfire many times with this "broken" flight model claim:

That public information film in your signature shows some real fancy flying.

It fits the standards of a work of propaganda. It's selective in its subject matter and demonstrates evidence gathered under circumstances that can't readily be recreated.

It demonstrates that PapaFly's an edge gamer of exceptional ability. Personally I'd love to know how he does it and to see a more even handed coverage of a wider range of flight models.

I haven't witnessed any Allied player reproduce the extreme flight characteristics he identifies and I've spoken to a good number of other regular Spitfire players.

The flight model is imperfect. They all are. So is the engine. Show me perfection anywhere on earth. I think the devs do a damn fine job everywhere they go. I don't think they have any credible competition for what they have created.

 

15 hours ago, EpeeNoire said:

even a baboon could get a decent score in that thing

 

You're entitled to your opinion, but try to have a little respect for those who may hold you in the same regard.

For a more even-handed appraisal of the Spitfire I recommend you speak to players who don't have an obvious axe to grind. AeroAce and Tasmanaut are both very capable whichever side they are on.

 

  • Cujo

Always nice to see a post that isn't a demand for attention, an accusation of bias or some prophecy of doom:

 

On 5/25/2019 at 6:28 PM, CUJO_1970 said:

Active player base is half what it once was.

 

lol

 

5 hours ago, CUJO_1970 said:

server participation is actually increasing not decreasing

 

Player numbers have been increasing since February, but well done anyway. Selective inference.

What will be interesting to see is if they start to dip out now. 500+ in those first few days, now some people who never played online before might not be coming back, but hey ho...

The sunshine really suits your smile.
 

The issue of game balance:


We have two unpopular aircraft, the Spitfire IXe and the 262, and both are a real pain to kill if the pilot knows what's going on around him. So far nobody disagrees?

 

One can reach any part of the map in approaching half the time of most other planes and kill in a one half second burst of fire. This wouldn't be a massive issue if the fire was harder to bring to bear, but demonstrably effective shooting techniques have rendered this aircraft a killer with NO equal in the hands of many players.

Even AFK you can put this thing on a level and go answer the door and know that the only thing that threatens you is the edge of the map.

The other plane is the Spitfire (easy as it is to fly). Try putting the Spitfire on auto-level in the wrong half of the map while you go and pour another drink (of milk obviously)...

Would you like to ask an expert? We have a few on the server:

 

On 7/1/2019 at 6:25 PM, CUJO_1970 said:

Also, I would like to sincerely apologize for my rampant 262 use on this server. I'm simply having way too much fun flying it. I can't put it down.

 

I don't have time for the lauding weak arguments in favour of banning a plane that barely effects balance, and cheering for the one that's killing it.

Personally I'm bored of major league gamers treating other players like a source of food; and when they turn out to be difficult targets, crying about it.

 

The developer has given us a beautiful, diverse and unrivalled tactical combat simulator. They have clearly stated that it's our job to find the balance.

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6 hours ago, Johnny-Red said:

I'm confused by your bundling it with the rather dissimilar Spitfire though. I've heard you mention the Spitfire many times with this "broken" flight model claim:

 

That public information film in your signature shows some real fancy flying.

It fits the standards of a work of propaganda. It's selective in its subject matter and demonstrates evidence gathered under circumstances that can't readily be recreated.

It demonstrates that PapaFly's an edge gamer of exceptional ability. Personally I'd love to know how he does it and to see a more even handed coverage of a wider range of flight models.

I haven't witnessed any Allied player reproduce the extreme flight characteristics he identifies and I've spoken to a good number of other regular Spitfire players.

The flight model is imperfect. They all are. So is the engine. Show me perfection anywhere on earth. I think the devs do a damn fine job everywhere they go. I don't think they have any credible competition for what they have created.

Johnny, I have a substantial amount of respect for you, I believe you know that.

but what you are writing there is pretty much ignorant to the max. and even when somebody not even as closely as fed-up with that plane as me (papa said he has no agenda and I do believe that, actually, since he's not only citicising the mk ixe but the FM in game globally aswell) comes up with real hard evidence, processed and conditioned as neatly and conveniently as in this video, you call it propaganda? give me a break.

 

of course other planes are broken in places aswell. no one said something about being perfect or anything like that.

 

all I ever was saying is that for VVS it is certainly no fun to fly against a myriad of 262s, and on that regard, that it is (since months!) no fun for LW players to fly against a myriad of mk ixes. and at least a few of us seem to be willing to see that in the case of the spitfire, this is an issue of a broken FM. whereas the 262 is simply a twin-engined fighter jet with four lethal autocannons - which, again, is no fun to fly against, even in a broken FM plane.

 

edit:

I find it kind of funny and sad at the same time that, regardless of how much we debate over issues like this, probably nothing is going to change since the server admins seem to have little interest in the going ons on this server. and with no admins around to carry the burden of balancing and making the game as enjoyable as possible, and with devs who - as johnny says - do not seem to care much for those things we are pretty much quite literally mid-air, at the mercy of none other than ourselfes.

cause as I see it, if we do not resign on using those planes, this server with its settings simply will not be an enjoyable experience for many of us.

Edited by EpeeNoire
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Hi all,

 

I am no pilot or expert by any means, but I would just like to say that both of the Spitfire's flight models in IL-2 are pretty much the same as any other I have (an I have a few), including DCS, FlyingIron's in Xplane and for what it's worth all versions available in War Thunder. The only thing lacking in IL-2's version to me is prop torque effect, which is much more pronounced in the other versions. In comparison, I can not see how it is at all "broken" unless they all are in all Sims/ games?

 

As for ease of flying, like the original WW2 pilots said, you wear a Spitfire not get in it, or something like that. To me though the FM of the Yak 1 is very similar indeed and just as flyable. I just prefer the Spitfire being patriotic.

 

I have compared performance in test flight Simple Mission mode with both auto and manual engine control. Top speed is faster in the 109s and is easy to measure especialy with auto pilot on and full throttle at varying altidudes.

 

I have measured turn performace with Tacview and from what I can see there is little difference between the Spitfire and 109's especially with low fuel.  

 

 

Edited by NAKE350
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Johny:

you connect what mustnt have a connection.

Strats that more pilots are now flying is FOR SURE not due to the 262 availability. But it can be also due to more people have new pc or found this server.

 

saying that I once flew Spit IX and few times flew 262 says NOTHING about what we are talking here about.

 

I brought some tips how to improve the server. None effort to even think about them?

 

To say that people are not leaving the server but still coming has nothing to do with 262. Its just BECAUSE We want to fly and such server with normal setting and ICONS is rare so we just keep flying, bcs, we love flying. 

What I wanted to say is that with 262 we are still defending and I think their usage is beyonde the limit of playble game. Beyonde the limit where must come some restriction and regulations to make it again funny.

 

I thought it would be easier to implement planeset .... but seems to be insurmountable obstacle.

cheers

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10 hours ago, 3.IAP_Vasilij said:

saying that I once flew Spit IX and few times flew 262 says NOTHING about what we are talking here about.

 

Fair point. I didn't mean to misrepresent you, and If you feel that I have, I apologise.

 

I presented the fact that you 1: asked for the Spitfire to be restricted and that you 2: flew it. I acknowledge that much reasonable consideration can exist between these two facts and that neither requires the exclusion of the other.

 

I am in favour of controlling the use of the 262 and I was being somewhat crude in my argument against restricting other aircraft.

 

I respect your ability as a player / virtual pilot, and I did not wish to attack your integrity.

 

 

 

There was a historically based server (with icons) supported by -DED- and 72AG, and it did have Eastern Front scenarios with balanced plane sets, but sadly that seems to have gone quiet.

 

I think a lot of us found the procedural flying too boring, especially earning points for planes, the startups, the taxiing and the long haul to the front line. People wanted faster action and unrestricted plane sets; so -DED- Normal was usually populated and the the campaign server was usually empty.

 

There's a lot that could be done to promote balance and historicity and to reward effort and teamwork; but that all starts at the level of mission design.

 

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On 7/20/2019 at 7:57 PM, SpocksOddSocks said:

And if you had flown the Spitfire against the best K4 and D9 and F4 pilots (plus at least one of the best A5 and 110g2 pilots), you'd probably see it from a different side. There are definitely those seem to be able to follow it through any kind of turn fight.

The 109's have a performance advantage in speed, climb and dive. Given equally skilled pilots, the 109 can gain angles on a spit and choose when to engage. However, the spit is superior in its defensive turns. If both pilots make no mistakes, it results in a stalemate with the 109 able to disengage. Two beginners, however, and the spit has the advantage, as it is very capable all round, with the 109 pilot instinctively trying to follow it in turns rather than take the fight vertically and work for an angle. This is where the 'spit is OP' argument comes from, and I can see that point of view.

Edited by Tasmanaut
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1 hour ago, Tasmanaut said:

The 109's have a performance advantage in speed, climb and dive. Given equally skilled pilots, the 109 can gain angles on a spit and choose when to engage. However, the spit is superior in its defensive turns. If both pilots make no mistakes, it results in a stalemate with the 109 able to disengage. Two beginners, however, and the spit has the advantage, as it is very capable all round, with the 109 pilot instinctively trying to follow it in turns rather than take the fight vertically and work for an angle. This is where the 'spit is OP' argument comes from, and I can see that point of view.

 

This sounds like my experience, and how the planes should behave as far as I can tell. Also, in the circumstances you see the OP argument, I can also see. However, most of the arguments, particularly on here, come from extremely experienced pilots...

 

On 7/20/2019 at 12:05 PM, EpeeNoire said:

I don't fancy myself one of those "best" pilots, I am average.

 

Despite this, the stats show that you consistently maintain amongst the highest air victories per hour of flight on the server, and I know from experience you know quite well how to gain and maintain your energy advantage.

 

On 7/20/2019 at 10:33 AM, EpeeNoire said:

what I can also see (what most of you guys apparently are blind to or just ignorant) is how the spitfire mk ixe is just ridiculous when it comes to turning, which is like 99 % of what you do on a icons-on and quick-action server. and spare me this "it is outclimbed by any other plane" bollocks. it's engine performance is just fine. if it was as fast as say a D-9 or K-4, it would not only be just easy mode as it is now, it would also be that even a baboon could get a decent score in that thing. so cut it on how "inferior" the poor spitfire is. or why is it, that like at least 50 % of VVS players fly this thing on this server?

 

Nobody is ignorant of the fact that the Spitfire turns really well. We are only maintaining that it doesn't turn better than it's supposed to, as seems to be your argument (constantly maintaining that it is broken). The reason more people take the MK IX is because it is the most capable overall fighter we have. It can outclimb other Allied planes, and is faster than anything else the Allies have bar the LA5 FN, and can turn better than anything other than a MK IVb or I16. I am not maintaining that it is inferior, only that is cannot climb as well as most German planes.

 

I never wanted this to get into a some kind of "us vs them"  argument, and as much as I didn't really agree with the tone of Tyggz's post...

On 7/19/2019 at 7:43 PM, Tyggz said:

I am slowly becoming disinterested with the normal difficulty servers as the abundance of Spitfires is crushing all of the fun I could once have.

I am often flying Luftwaffe and having to face aircraft of approaching comparable performance such as the Spitfire. This ruins the fun as I have become accustomed to effortlessly taking down VVS aircraft.

I regard it as entirely unfair that my 1945 Uberwaffe aircraft are having to face against 1943 Spitfires.

No matter how hard I try to turn with them they just get inside and shoot me down.

 

Enough is enough, there needs to be a stop to the Spitfire horde now! :biggrin:

This is kind how your protestations do sound like from my end too.

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I personally don't see any problem with Spit IX or Me 262. With proper flown Fw 190A-3 all Spits can kiss my ass. I got killed only as I want some fun or action or I'm impatient. Properly flown Anton or Dora are hunters, if you fly low with these planes you will become a target. It's simple fact.

 

The Me 262 issue is nothing. It's so hard to aim in this jet so flying defensive against Me 262 is easy to do. I'm calm and easy during my P-47 bombruns if there are Me 262 around instead D-9 or K-4.

 

But... Where the hell is the server? What happened with it?

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2 hours ago, Blackmessiah1975 said:

But... Where the hell is the server? What happened with it?

Strangely enough, the stats still appear to be producing mission logs (with nobody joining because it isn't visible on the server list). I suspect they haven't actually brought it down to update the files since the update dropped this week, and so has lost it's connection to the master server as a result.

 

As for the rest...I don't know, I don't feel safe in a P47 when certain players on, and flying the 262, but I agree, most of the time it's just an annoyance. To both sides really, because when so many are in it, the few axis player that aren't can often end up getting properly ganked by allied pilots while the 262 pilots run round and around. But like I said in a earlier post, I would certainly prefer not to see it removed, but perhaps limited in numbers, and not available from forward airstarts (just because they can cover the distance and get to the action pretty quickly in any case).

 

I'll let them know on the Russian forum,

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Ruthlees_Killer and I RAYEU are banned for 14 hours for only reason to use the Me 262 A 1b &   for high score by only Pan_Russ7 , Tyggs , 3IAP.Vasilij  allied  players , this never happened before because Allies always win and we do not ban them , the reason Is that we the  Axis are winning the Campaign of the mounth July . That’s the only way when they lose that they know to win , how we see is to ban the bests . 

http://72ag-ded.su:8080/es/pilots/?tour=47

 

Thats reminds me WW2 .

 

 

Edited by RAY-EU
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^Sorry to hear about the bans.

 

However, if you believe you are contributing to mission wins in 262s, then I'd say you haven't noticed how the objectives on this server seem to work. As the server is currently set up, it's impossible to win a map on points. Only those missions with built in objectives (and it isn't all of them) actually count on the server stats. Those objectives are either ground attack objectives or tank objectives. The current state of this month is more to do with an influx of people taking Tigers on Moscow and Stalingrad2 (aka "tanks rush!") rather than what is going on in the air.

 

Plus as the stats are no longer updating since the server came back, it's not going to be making a difference this month, even if that weren't the case.

 

Was this throught vote banning from within the game btw?

Edited by SpocksOddSocks
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1 hour ago, Ruthless_Killer said:

Yes, I was kicked and banned by an angry mob for 14 hours simply for shooting them down too often in the 262. It's funny how mad people can get over a video game. I've been continuously harassed for weeks now because I guess some people don't like getting shot down by me ;)

 

 Also, I find it odd that players have the ability to kick/ban other players from the server. Shouldn't admins be the ones who decide who gets banned?

 

Anyway, here is a list of the offenders: Primus, 3.IAP_vasilij, BATYA, Tyggz, =UMG=PaRus73. I probably missed someone so the admins should check the game logs. I have full confidence that the criminals will be punished.

whoa whoa whoa, hold your horses there. while I understand your frustration, I do not believe that calling names is something useful here. you just said it: it's a video game, nothing to be too mad about.

 

fundamentally, a kick or ban vote is a useful tool for when admins are not in reach. now, considering the history of this server, not admins being around is unfortunately the status quo, thus making this ability even more vital. but: being kicked or even banned just for using a certain plane is ridiculous and should not be happening.

 

now this is a little much to ask but could anyone of you guys who speak russian or got some relation to the DED guys (johnny red maybe?) tell them about this on the russian forums? I think while until now the issues of the servers were an annoyance, now they've become a real problem. if angry people start kick- and ban voting other equally angry people, something definitely needs to change

Edited by EpeeNoire
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2 hours ago, Ruthless_Killer said:

But now that it has been proven that players can't be trusted with the ability to kick people the feature ought to be removed. To report a player you'd only need to send a track to one of the admins.

This is actually a feature built into the game rather than something server admins can switch on and off. However, I believe they can unban users that have been banned this way. It might also amuse you to know that the server is down again anyway, and has been since not long after RAY-EU's post. 😄

 

And Epee is right about the first part. It might not be name calling, but naming people at all, then referring to them as "offenders"/"criminals" (regardless of your intention), could possibly be construed that way.

 

As for the Russian forum, I intend to go there with a number of things to say, but there's some technical stuff that google translate isn't going to convey very well, so I keep putting it off. (Things like the Server Stats not working, the PzIV not being available, and the PzIII-m only being available at some bases if it's held by Allies instead of Axis on the Moscow mission.)

 

There is also the issue of the log files from the last update. Dserver doesn't produce logs by default, and the last update wiped out most people's config files (which is where the settings to produce logs is stored). Because the stats haven't been updating, I don't actually know if that's because they have just crashed, or because the server stopped producing logs... and I'm not certain if my advice on that subject came across in my last post on the Russian site.

Edited by SpocksOddSocks
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Why not name calling? If I would do something wrong or weird I would know it and response if needed.

 

Prople are going to disappear from their positions in stats. Pity for me because I reached quite good result this month.

 

But what we are talking about? Up to 200 peeps online, maybe another 1000 play offline. Within 6 billions on Earth it makes this game true niche with no interest. It's ridiculous too that there is only ONE normal server existing on lobby with nice settings and statistics system. And also this server has own issues and is temporarily off. Just curious...

Edited by Blackmessiah1975
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I am banned for more than 40 -50 hours ,  14 hours yesterday and after 24 hours is the timer in 16 34 ‘ 60’’ the timer doesn’t move,  time and don’t discount any second, is ridiculous. Banned game . I am in DCS F18 C Simulator reality for today .

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I see is blocked. I am very funny with DCS F18 C Thanks is more electronically with powerful 21 st Century Strategies.

Century strategies...

Edited by RAY-EU
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Hi all. :biggrin:

 

Three players were vote banned from the DED normal server on the Moscow map Monday evening around 18:00 BST.

The players banned were Ruthless-Killer, RAYEU and Player-254823.

 

To begin, I'm sorry to hear about the ban, RAYEU. I respect you as a pilot and played no part in having you vote banned from the server.

Several pilots had voted to kick you from the server but were unable to make a majority and so the vote did not carry.

The vote was then carried around 15 minutes later as the population of the server dropped and you were subsequently kicked as the votes had reached majority.

 

On 7/29/2019 at 6:44 PM, RAY-EU said:

Allies always win and we do not ban them , the reason Is that we the  Axis are winning the Campaign of the mounth July . That’s the only way when they lose that they know to win , how we see is to ban the bests .

 

This is entirely incorrect. There has not been a single ban as consequence of Axis winning.

Discussed above in this thread, there is a massive imbalance on the DED normal server which has come with the me-262.

It's not about victories but simply the game being spoiled by an entirely unrestricted 262.

 

As for Ruthless-Killer I did vote to ban him.

 

20 hours ago, Ruthless_Killer said:

Well technically, calling them offenders/criminals is just factual, since those are the people that broke the rules.

 

No offence or crime has been committed.

I must remind you Ruthless, if we are getting into the rules, that there is no actual rule for this server which prohibits the use of the multiplayer vote ban feature.

 

On 7/30/2019 at 11:22 AM, Ruthless_Killer said:

Yes, I was kicked and banned by an angry mob for 14 hours simply for shooting them down too often in the 262. It's funny how mad people can get over a video game. I've been continuously harassed for weeks now because I guess some people don't like getting shot down by me

Your ban was bound to happen and was entirely just. Don't claim to be the victim of systemic harassment or persecution from the allies.

 

We are not your food.

Your presence is nothing less than toxic. The verbal abuse, gloating and exploitation will not be tolerated.

You only exist on the server to lord it over in your 262, gorging yourself on the relatively defenseless allied opposition with impunity.

Never contributing to any axis objective or collective goal. Just out there for yourself to reap in the harvest of the hapless allied air opposition.

 

On 7/30/2019 at 1:22 PM, Ruthless_Killer said:

It's a quick action DF server with arcade realism settings. It's one of the few servers with all planes and tanks available. It has been that way since the beginning of the server. There are plenty of servers with historical scenarios with limited planesets. 

You're totally spot on there Ruthless, the normal server has no numerical restrictions whatsoever or any aircraft missing from either side. It's been like this from the very beginning.

A rather peculiar comment coming from an account which is less than nine months old. Especially considering that the DED normal server has been around for over four years.

 

On 7/30/2019 at 1:22 PM, Ruthless_Killer said:

It takes a veteran pilot to be successful in the jet. It can be almost impossible to hit a properly flown spit or yak. Fortunately, many of the -DED- Normal regulars aren't that experienced, so landing shots on them isn't too difficult.

Congratulations Ruthless, why not award yourself a silver cup while you're at it?

I'd suggest you go and play some QMB sorties and rack up endless AI planes for little to no retaliation. Surely it must all be the same to you.

Or perhaps switch back to your main account and find something more fulfilling to do.

 

I would also like to invite Player-254823 to discuss his feelings on the bans as I did vote to ban him as well.

Unfortunately, it appears he has quite conveniently changed his name.

Maybe he's changed it to a name which corresponds to the syntax of the other "Player-" names.

 

Anyway, here's the screenshots from when Ruthless and Player-254823 were banned, just in case anyone needs to jog their memories :P

(I'd gotten in touch with 0rsum_Smellz who provided me with the sceenies)

 

The banning of Ruthless-Killer

RuthlessKiller_Ban.thumb.png.a0238d9ace72a1c29ce0f31eba071934.png

 

And the banning of Player-254823

Player-254823_Ban.thumb.png.3f2e2135338fe8c7dfe59ef6ade10b6a.png

 

Strange to see a player who's never been on the server before shoot down 5 aircraft in the space of 3 minutes. A 262 pilot fighting very much in the manner of Ruthless-Killer.

Even stranger still, What The Hell voted to ban Player-254823 too. A pilot who almost always flies Axis.

I guess the angry mob of allied pilots story doesn't hold up so well. 🤦‍♀️

 

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Thank you Tyggz for throwing some light on recent events.

 

_____________________________________

 

I'd also like to express my regret that you got banned RAYEU. I hope that with the server back online you won't have any more problems.

 

I would also reiterate what Spock has said: About winning individual missions. Fighter combat is not the objective of any of the missions, but can only be useful in support of other players.

 

Also, I can tell you on behalf of a large number of Reds (and I speak for myself here too): There is not much interest in either winning missions or winning most missions in the month. These "objectives" almost never enter conversation and I don't know anyone who thinks they are really important. Except CUJO_I970.

 

_____________________________________

 

With regard to Ruthless_Killer's kicking/ban I have spoken to several people who were present and some others who have had issues with this player's conduct:

 

I have complete confidence that those who voted to kick him did so because there is no rule to moderate this kind of behaviour: Nor should there need to be a rule prescribing what counts as the abuse of a system or disrespect to the player base. These ideas are fundamental to an adult mind state. I'm not explaining that to anyone who doesn't get it.

 

Racking up an endless tally of easy kills (in a situation where one's opponent has no reasonable access to defence or retaliation) doesn't demonstrate skill. I see some suggestion that he was banned because he was “too good”.

 

Too good at what precisely?

 

Using the server wide chat facility to gloat and goad ones opponents, then feigning ignorance and innocence in equal measure when challenged. Perverse, but consistent with a certain psychology. It demonstrates a high boredom threshold; and an internal reward system at least partially fed by the distress of others.

 

I would define it as parasitic.

 

Nobody voted to kick him because he was too “good” for them. They voted to kick him after one person made a reasonable request that he moderate his behaviour. This was met with derision.

 

  • I can't be responsible for my actions – I need more rules to tell me where the boundaries are...

 

No. Rules won't help. Time for him to take ownership of what he does:

 

On 7/30/2019 at 5:15 PM, Ruthless_Killer said:

Karma is a biatch 😄

 

  • It's not me, it's you criminals! You can't prove anything...

 

Again: No: The assertion is dishonest, the challenge hollow.

 

_____________________________________

 

In the meantime, there are people who have used this server for years, (many are Russian speakers or players who prefer to use Soviet aircraft) joining the server, seeing a 262 in play and leaving.

 

I have witnessed this several times and also heard report of this from a number of other regulars.

 

The presence of that aircraft without agreed limitations is rotting away at the centre of all this. People are now voting “No” with their feet and walking away.

 

I heard that JG27 flew Allies today because Allied players are staying away.

 

On that basis alone I'd advocate ditching the 262 until some semblance balance is restored.

 

_____________________________________

 

 

As for Ruthless, I commend him to his angry mob.


 

Edited by Johnny-Red
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I also asked him to tone it down on a couple of occasions to no avail. It was a continuous juvenile demonstration which made it un-fun for everyone. In the end it is a game and nothing more. Particularly on the Normal server where many styles operate at the same time. There are plenty of lone wolves and a few of us who fly with dedicated wingmen. In the end, everyone should be having as much fun as possible or the server dies. This is a point I’ve stressed numerous times.

 

There are a number of excellent pilots and, contrary to popular belief, this is anything but a strictly novice arena. It is a little arcade with all of the aids but it’s primarily a dogfight/maneuvering fight server. RK didn’t get any of those points and he was both coached and chastised before the ban. I don’t have a problem with either Vasilij or Ray. I have a great time with both on the server and hope to see them both again next week. 

 

I said very early on that the 262 would ruin this server. The server is actually pretty balanced as Soviet and German AC have their strengths and weaknesses. It’s a major aspect of the BoX series that each AC has its own distinct personality and you can find success even with a lowly LaGG. The 262 misses the mark from a playability perspective - even if it’s on the mark for historical accuracy. I hope to see its use severely restricted going forward and I fly almost exclusively Luftie. It’s not history, it’s not reality, it’s not war. Competition is fun. What the 262 brings is anything but competition. IMHO, It’s mostly a technology demonstrator for future expansions.

 

RK is a good enough pilot to find success in any number of Luftwaffe fighters. Hopefully he will read this post and find a couple of points of interest/guidance/humility. Failing that, I see a string of bans upcoming.  It’s a game, despite anyone’s opinion otherwise, and poor behavior should not be tolerated - in no small part because what irritates my friends irritates me. Even if they fly for the ‘other’ side.

Edited by II/JG17_HerrMurf
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I think moderators should analyze what had really happened and make a evaluation and a reconsideration about if they want to establish a ‘ banner Game ‘ where the oposite can ban the best pilots without any reason , just   to win .

The Me 262 is a perfectly historically legal plane severely underperformed by stalls like all  axis planes , are not over performed like the Spitfires , La 5 or the Yaks .....

To choose between a banner game like many others fantasy games or a historical WW2 Simulation meanwhile nowadays I am in DCS F18C of  21st Century because that banner players do not let us play as we are the best & the winners .

Edited by RAY-EU
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I don't understand or missed something. Each time I go on any server I read the rules carefully. I didn't read here vulching or strafing is prohibited that means EU Official is "total war" server. I personally was shot down many times once I was on server with 1:9 balance. As I started my Spit many times there was a few Axis planes around and they attacked me badly.

 

I recorded some tracks with RK online but I didn't see it yet. I must check how to kill 3 or more enemies within of one minute. Very impressive. I saw only RK is very precise pilot so it helps him to gain the streak quickly for sure.

 

I don't care about Me 262 threat. For me D-9 is much more dangerous as I fly Tbolt or Spit.

 

We miss the main essence of the community: WHERE THE HELL IS THE SERVER? 😃

Edited by Blackmessiah1975
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1 hour ago, Blackmessiah1975 said:

We miss the main essence of the community:

 

Sorry - with all this melodrama I'd quite forgotten:

 

Spock reported the server outage a couple of days ago on the Russian forum (along with some other identified issues). Obviously since then it's been restarted and gone down again.

 

I'll post on there this evening if it's not fixed shortly.

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Sorry thats not ok here only to ban the people they want to fly the 262.

I shot primus down he reacts with a ban a few minutes ago.

Then a few others react without any reason .

 

Thats childish and i use only this nice word for such kind of reaction.

The next step is that all K4 flyers get a ban .

 

 

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On 8/1/2019 at 6:52 PM, Ruthless_Killer said:

The rest of your post is weird rambling

 

It's amusing that you alternate between feigning reason behind what you do and say, and pretending not to understand what others do or say.

 

I've already stated that explaining things to you personally is not worth the effort.

_______________________________

 

 

On 8/1/2019 at 6:18 PM, Dex*GD*Dexter said:

Sorry thats not ok here only to ban the people they want to fly the 262. 

I shot primus down he reacts with a ban a few minutes ago.

Then a few others react without any reason .

 

The 262 again.

 

This is truly unfortunate for us all; but not entirely surprising. Where have you been?

 

It appears that once again Germans have helped start a Russian Revolution.

 

The Russians burned their own capital, starved out the invaders, killed their royal family and got off their knees after taking over 9,000,000 military casualties and people still throw stones and run away laughing. Now, faced with a plane nobody can kill, they eject pilot. Welcome to their world?

 

On 8/1/2019 at 6:18 PM, Dex*GD*Dexter said:

Thats childish and i use only this nice word for such kind of reaction.

 

I tried to explain that they weren't food in some stupid one sided exchange. In some quarters that seems to have been mis-translated "as whining unworthy Reds can't take the heat! Ha ha ha ha! Die Red Scum!”. If people are too sectarian to review a balanced argument against the 262, it's not my problem.

 

Instead people show up demanding justice and that THEIR rights be upheld.

 

As I said before, I'm sorry they kicked you, but that's just an expression of sympathy.

 

YOU have a vested interest in understanding THEIR greivance.

 

On 8/1/2019 at 6:18 PM, Dex*GD*Dexter said:

The next step is that all K4 flyers get a ban . 


I hope not. I won't support it or anyone who advocates it. Try not to dramatise or mis-frame the debate.

 

Please understand that the issues people have with the 262 are without precedent. This has been discussed on both forums.

 

On the Russian forum Marengo has challenged us to go back to a pre 1944 plane set. Some of our friends would be more than happy. I argued against (though not out of strong personal preference; more common sense). One day Red side will have the Yak-3, the La-7 and Yak-9U. Banning late war aircraft would be a blunt tool to address a single point of critical unfairness.

 

I also don't think it would benefit the game in general to impose widespread limitations on access to content. I'm not advocating a complete ban on the 262, but clearly without some form of effective control there's gonna be no peace.

 

I'm sorry if it's not obvious why that hurts us all.

 

If this community gets splintered by a group of out of control power-gamers, this will be on them alone. I strongly suspect that any further development in this type of gaming community will take place without them.

 

I would advise engagement with the "other" as a matter of urgency.

Edited by Johnny-Red
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Jeez people...

 

Just bring back the server, keep it online whole month to have statistics up, don't change actual planeset and place much more ground targets to destroy.

 

The most curious thing is I don't know any other server with Normal settings and stats page. Do you know it?

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On 8/6/2019 at 2:49 PM, Blackmessiah1975 said:

Jeez people...

 

Just bring back the server, keep it online whole month to have statistics up, don't change actual planeset and place much more ground targets to destroy.

 

The most curious thing is I don't know any other server with Normal settings and stats page. Do you know it?

Many of the DED-Normal regulars have been flying here during DED-Normal downtime.

https://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/52029-oh-my-dog-normal-server/

 

Also, "Normal" preset servers show with the two chevrons (without stars) on the server list.

 

Edited by SpocksOddSocks
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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

One question about targets. Please explain one thing - how does somebody destroy approx. 40 targets with one or two bombs, I mean "airfield objects". I saw other people stats they have hundreds of airfield objects destroyed. I have 9 in whole August despite of bombing different targets (mainly marked with red dot). Does some mystery exist there? Example: somebody destroyed 40 airfield objects in one mission with two big bombs in Lapino mission. I don't see such targets, where to aim?

Edited by Blackmessiah1975
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29 minutes ago, Blackmessiah1975 said:

One question about targets. Please explain one thing - how does somebody destroy approx. 40 targets with one or two bombs, I mean "airfield objects". I saw other people stats they have hundreds of airfield objects destroyed. I have 9 in whole August despite of bombing different targets (mainly marked with red dot). Does some mystery exist there? Example: somebody destroyed 40 airfield objects in one mission with two big bombs in Lapino mission. I don't see such targets, where to aim?

It can be a bit of trial and error figuring this out. Observing the targets other people go for can help. 

 

The targets you're asking about don't have red dot icons, and it's rather inconsistent which missions do have objects that count as targets. Only planes, vehicles and artillery positions can be given icons. 

 

Lapino's fairly simple though. There are fuel storage objects near the tank bases. There's even a marker on the map pointing out their location (until a certain number are destroyed). I think taking them out closes the tank base temporarily.

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5 hours ago, Blackmessiah1975 said:

One question about targets. Please explain one thing - how does somebody destroy approx. 40 targets with one or two bombs, I mean "airfield objects". I saw other people stats they have hundreds of airfield objects destroyed. I have 9 in whole August despite of bombing different targets (mainly marked with red dot). Does some mystery exist there? Example: somebody destroyed 40 airfield objects in one mission with two big bombs in Lapino mission. I don't see such targets, where to aim?

 

There is a lot of inconsistency between the different missions, so some will yield points for every single object destroyed, while others won't. Obvious tactical targets like fuel and parked aircraft won't reward a player on some missions while on others they will yield points along with other destructable airfield objects.

 

There are also issues around bomb sizes. Some Luftwaffe munitions are of a strategic nature and don't really have a functional role in our tactical combat simulation. The 1800kg bomb would be a Blockbuster in USAAF parlance, the 2500kg bomb I can't imagine being used outside the context of strategic bombing - ever.

 

4 hours ago, SpocksOddSocks said:

The targets you're asking about don't have red dot icons, and it's rather inconsistent which missions do have objects that count as targets. Only planes, vehicles and artillery positions can be given icons. 

 

This is especially salient. Many objects which yield points for their destruction don't have icons. The very crude principle in tactical warfare is: If the enemy can use it; destroy it. Look out for bunkers, cammo netting, ammo stockpiles, fuel dumps and crates etc.

 

___

 

I'm currently working on a multiplayer mission for -DED- Normal in which everything but civilian residences are up for grabs, as I feel that this is in keeping with the type of total war fought between the Axis and Allies: If it's resources, infrastructure or military material, have a crack at it. It will likely be killable and should yield points. It may untimately be the case that the central streets of some villages near the front also become tactical targets if the background suggests enemy forces may be headquarted there.

 

Of course, making everything destructable (and count for scoring) may impact performance so we'll see how it plays out. One consequence is likely to be that the points rating of the missions will need to be raised from 500 to 1000, like on OMD, if not whoever scores fastest will end the mission with nobody else having the chance to score. This currently happens on Kuban where single player can finish the game in about 15-20 minutes and three players can finish the mission with one sortie each.

 

In the long term a review of pre-existing -DED- missions would be a good idea, with a view to rationalising their ground scoring arrangement, but that's some heavy lifting work. I'm 2 weeks behind with the mission I'm on already...

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Nice job getting the 262 completely removed from the server. No number limits, no airfield restrictions or on limited maps only...completely removed.

 

Those who paid for this aircraft and enjoyed flying online do not appreciate it.

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I see That’s the allied strategy to win & when  they lose is remove  the best axis planes while ( we can not .) meanwhile as they had been for years  over performing all  their´s .

Edited by RAY-EU
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