A Lot of Early Access Players No Longer Playing

[johncage 87]

They have often stated their belief that unlocks are needed in order to entice new players.

 

Of course its a flawed belief, anyone that actually plays other games knows this, but unfortunately we are where we are, we have what we have.

 

And we haven't, yet, seen the large influx of new players that this unlock system was designed to bring.

 

the unlock system is likely the culprit. the campaign was designed around such a system and so felt grindey and repetitive.

[Mac_Messer 235]

You can't talk about War Thunder like one game, there is a huuge difference between the arcade/historic game/community and the Sim game/community.

 

In arcade(+), yes there are a lot of children, they enjoy grinding themselves through everything which was in the air during the 30's and 40's. But they never were and never will be the audience for a game like BoS, or any other simulator. 

IMO the grinding part is not 100% correct. In the past I`ve seen plenty of DF servers have point statistics. Same in online wars. IMO certainly there is a group which flies for points, just as much as other groups fly for kills and mission objectives. Player leveling could aswell be integrated into this, as I am sure there are players looking for...say XP badges? You know, to make them stand out. Many ppl look for this in games they play.

 

I myself came from WT, learned virtual aviation in WT, and also persuaded 3 of my buddies to buy BoS. No one of us want the damn unlocks. We all want custom graphics, coop multiplayer, proper FMB, and stuff like that, like you "old guys from former flight sims". And i think most, if not all of the ex-WT-Sim players see it the same.

 

So i just can't believe, that the Devs implemented the unlock system into this game to persuade "ex-WT-player" into this one. That just makes no sense at all. I can't and i don't believe that the Dev's are that clueless about "the people" and the marketing mechanics in flight sims....there just have to be another reason... (don't ask me what..)

Yeah, see? There are hardcore WT players, CloD players, 1946 players and RoF players. If we can get majority of them to embrace BoS, I think this title would have a very bright future. A clear indication that BoS is missing something.

Edited November 22, 2014 by Mac_Messer

[Anw.StG2_Tyke 103]

Yeah, see? There are hardcore WT players, CloD players, 1946 players and RoF players. If we can get majority of them to embrace BoS, I think this title would have a very bright future. A clear indication that BoS is missing something.

 

Yeah but this is nearly impossible, because look every game you mentioned does something or does a lot of things BoS doesn't have, won't have or do it worse. As long as BoS doesn't do a lot of things better than those games, the player won't change.

[II./JG77_Manu* 905]

Yeah but this is nearly impossible, because look every game you mentioned does something or does a lot of things BoS doesn't have, won't have or do it worse. As long as BoS doesn't do a lot of things better than those games, the player won't change.

I think BoS makes the vast majority better then all those games together. Well, RoF is for WW1 simmers. WT is worse then BoS in almost every aspect. 1946 multiplayer is nonexistent. CloD makes it very good with TF, but there is no reason to not fly both (i do). As soon as Dserver and proper multiplayer servers come in BoS, i will definitely spend most of my Sim time there.

[DixonTiconderoga 0]

Well, I came back to the game today. My issue was that for some reason or another the game could not connect to the servers. Yet when I put in it windowed mode to get the error message for a support thingie it started working again, even in fullscreen. Honestly, the unlocks aren't bothering me too much.

[Anw.StG2_Tyke 103]

I think BoS makes the vast majority better then all those games together. Well, RoF is for WW1 simmers. WT is worse then BoS in almost every aspect. 1946 multiplayer is nonexistent. CloD makes it very good with TF, but there is no reason to not fly both (i do). As soon as Dserver and proper multiplayer servers come in BoS, i will definitely spend most of my Sim time there.

I doubt that, show me examples...

WT is not worse in almost every aspect, I have a lot of nicely modeled planes, I have the option to use decals or skin them and hell even the dev's don't care for the Sim Community like the dev's here... its almost the same...

[9./JG27golani79 274]

I think the FM and the systems could be modelled a bit better - these things just feel superior to me in DCS and therefore that´s the sim I´m flying almost exclusively at the moment.

 

This and the unlocks ..

Edited November 23, 2014 by golani79

[BlackDevil 79]

No other WW2 game/sim offers the real feeling of flight than BoS. So it is just up to your priorities, wether you prefer BoS or the others.

[Jaws2002 1576]

No other WW2 game/sim offers the real feeling of flight than BoS. So it is just up to your priorities, wether you prefer BoS or the others.

 

Yep. No other game offers you the feeling that you are flying a weightless paper plane.

[MiG21bisFishbedL 152]

The refusal to address bad game design choices has undermined my willingness to play.

[Pizzicato 60]

I haven't played since just before the official release.

 

There's huge amount of potential in this sim as others have noted, but the structure, sterility and utter lack of immersion in the campaign killed the experience stone dead for me. A complete and utter waste of money from my perspective, unfortunately.

[MiG21bisFishbedL 152]

I haven't played since just before the official release.

 

There's huge amount of potential in this sim as others have noted, but the structure, sterility and utter lack of immersion in the campaign killed the experience stone dead for me. A complete and utter waste of money from my perspective, unfortunately.

It sucks, but I have to completely agree.

[reddog=11blueleader* 19]

I am in the camp of wait and see what happens in the future. Liked it much better before the release.

[pencon 42]

Developers , you need to get rid of the unlocks before it's too late . It's hard to lure people back after they've all quit . You're sinking your own ship with stubbornness . The campaigns should be much more interesting than they are , and shouldn't all look the same . They also need to be spontaneous and not have an "action area " . Attacks should happen at any time not just in one corner and then fly back for 150 miles of boredom .Maybe smoke some pot and get more imaginative ..

Edited November 23, 2014 by 6969pencon

[Czar66 66]

The friendly approach to WT crowd took me off the sim before I've expected. Number 2 for me, with a little of fun on the campaign shooting down AI.

 

 

 

2. They are no longer playing at all while waiting to see what the future will bring...

 

RoF keeps me into combat mainly because of PWCG and persistent career. BoS needs it so much.

[Livai 319]

Yep. No other game offers you the feeling that you are flying a weightless paper plane.

 

What you expect from a RoF game engine that was designed for WWI where the planes were light? There are only 2 points to say about the game.

 

1. Its very clear that this unlock campaign system was made only for the very cheap Russian Starter Edition where you get 2 planes + 6 planes for free that need to be unlocked playing the campaign and forced all the rest of the expensive versions inside this unlock campaign system.

 

2. Multiplayer limited to 32.

[BlackDevil 79]

Yep. No other game offers you the feeling that you are flying a weightless paper plane.

The opposite is true. BoS is the only sim, where I feel weight. If I had your oppinion, i would sell my account and play something else.

[DD_bongodriver 929]

 

 

The opposite is true. BoS is the only sim, where I feel weight. If I had your oppinion, i would sell my account and play something else.          

 

that is an opinion of course.

[rigbyDerekb1948 18]

that is an opinion of course.

Welcome back!

Its been far too quiet on the forum for the last few days.

[MiG21bisFishbedL 152]

The argument of "feel" is a dead end as it's entirely opinion.

 

The actual objective facts lie in how detrimental the unlock system is. In no way does it "reward" the player like Doom did. In Doom, you received new weapons based on your skill as a player. Better players could find secrets and get weapons faster. In BoS, it's a set XP grind. It doesn't reward, it doesn't encourage, it just frustrates and bores. It's even at the whim of network connectivity. Doesn't anyone want to speak up on the developer team and say "you know, this isn't working out."

 

Now, couple that with a developer that loves to lower itself to the level of internet trolls when it comes to forum arguments, threatens to outright blame the consumer if things go wrong, and a brand new game that's anemic on content like most new games are, you have a recipe for disaster.

Edited November 23, 2014 by MiG21bisFishbedL

[BlackDevil 79]

that is an opinion of course.

Didn't I say: " I feel ...." Doesn't this express an opinion? Is it more than an opinion, if the other guy talks about weightless paperplanes ? Maybe he flies heavy taildraggers, as I do, and just feels it another way.

Edited November 23, 2014 by BlackDevil

[avlSteve 86]

I'm downloading WT. 

[FS_Fenice_1965 69]

 

 

1946 multiplayer is nonexistent

 

This is not true. IL2 1946 is still getting more players than every other sim in multiplayer. I checked yesterday evening for example. While IL21946 was getting more than 160 players (excluded servers and counting only those shown in HL...real number is huger since many play with direct ip). CLOD had 100 players ATAG included and BOS less.   

[nevervne 29]

Founder here. Stopped playing since the unlocks thing started happening. Absolutely cannot stand it.

 

I understand the need to appeal to more people, but making an arcadey flight sim won't work unless your name is WarThunder. You're trying to broaden the customer base in a game that is directed towards a very small clique. Very unfortunate change.

Edited November 23, 2014 by nevervne

[BeastyBaiter 412]

The thing about unlocks is I get the impression they were added without an understanding of why unlocks are so commonly used in games and generally not frowned upon.

 

a) In games like WT, PS2, MWO and so on, they are used as a method to encourage payment in an allegedly free to play game. Nobody likes them, but they understand the reason and accept it.

 

b) In games like Shadow Warrior, Doom, and various other 1 time purchase games, they are unlocked along a linear storyline path. This is done to simplify gameplay and allow even the dumbest of players to learn the various weapons they get in progressive manner. They'd also be absurdly over powered in the relatively easy starting levels.

 

c) In a traditional MMO, they are used to encourage players to keep grinding and thus keep paying a subscription fee. There is an actual name for it, it's called "the skinner box" and the process was studied long before the internet was even invented. Most monthly subscription MMO's use this method and it's super easy to spot. Any game that involves killing monsters to get better gear to kill monsters faster falls under this catagory. I hate this particular type of game, but they are the most common and most profitable.

 

The problem with unlocks here is, the game doesn't fall into any of those catagories. It's not a f2p game and it certainly isn't a skinner box. The only excusable unlock system is along historical lines in the campaign. But we don't really have a campaign so it doesn't work. That's the core problem. If they had copy/pasted the RoF campaign and tied the various unlocks to dates or as rewards for a certain number of kills (and only applied to the campaign mode, not QMB and MP as well), then I doubt there would be many complaints.  But that didn't happen. We ended up with just a second iteration of the QMB with a few cutscenes tossed in. A final bad part of the unlock system is it basically ignores player performance. Playing on expert, you get 200 points for simply completing the mission. Shoot down a plane? yeah, that's like 15 points. The fastest way to get the unlocks isn't to do well, but to simply complete as many missions as possible as quickly as possible. That in turn means doing as little as possible in them.

[7.GShAP/Silas 490]

I accept unlockable modifications as de rigueur in the modern game/sim/whatever makes you feel better to call the software you use.  If anything, I can appreciate them to a certain extent because I view the campaign as literally nothing more than a familiarization course before you hop online to fly with your friends in a cooperative setting, be it against humans, AI or both.  I don't think that it's inherently desirable for any john doe to strap 37mm cannons to his Stuka(or whatever) without first proving his basic familiarization with the aircraft.

 

It took me a couple hours(sometimes less) of flying with any given airframe to unlock everything I wanted for it. The experience I gained doing it directly translated into giving me the ability to handle them(and their payloads) online without making an ass out of myself. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

At some point, the agonizing over the reality of the 'optional recreational software' becomes funny. And irritating.  BOS gives me the feeling of flight in military prop aircraft I haven't had since the last time I was up in one. It allows me to recreate the experience of the men involved in one of the most titanic struggles in human history, and it allows me to do it with my comrades. If you want other things and BOS doesn't give it to you, feel free to say so and move on.

 

All I want is more people to fill out the servers, bigger servers and more proper missions like "Strike at Akhtuba" on the DED expert server, and less airquake junk like what Syndicate decided to put on their server the past week. That's it. Bigger servers, the ability to host servers at will and the ability to make missions that aren't terrible is coming soon, so I am satisfied. We just need more people.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Silas

[heinkill 200]

Would have had an MP session last night but on the official server 1/32. Syndicate full. DED full. No others avail.

 

Syndicate and DED offer more than deathmatch which is why they are attracting all the players.

 

Why dont the official servers offer the same?

 

Shame that even when you want a game there isnt any option than joining a dead official server. So I did some DayZ instead...

 

 

H

[BlackDevil 79]

@Silas: I have the same opinion as you. But, as the unlocks did lower the numbers in MP, they should be skipped.

 

I don't get the argument with the cheaper 2 plane version. Wouldn't it make more sense to unlock everything for those, who pay the full standard or premium price ? That way I could see some reason for that unlock system.

 

 

@Heinkill: Only a few weeks for the dserver, and this problem will be solved and the player count will be up as well.

I admit, the situation is unlucky at this time. There have been 60 players missions running smooth and stable already. Hopefully they get this fixed as fast as possible.

Edited November 24, 2014 by BlackDevil

[Livai 319]

I don't get the argument with the cheaper 2 plane version.

 

You get all 8 planes with this cheaper version through unlocking.

 

Wouldn't it make more sense to unlock everything for those, who pay the full standard or premium price ? That way I could see some reason for that unlock system.

 

Yes, it make more sense to unlock everything for those, who pay the full standard or premium price

 

I have no problems with the Starter Edition where you get all 8 planes through unlocking playing the campaign. More players more fun.

Is this Fair Play for those who paid the full price or pre-ordered it for the full price and paid for that +80% or +50% to much for this game and he need to unlock, too? Thats................................................!

 

Where is the fun here to playing or to enjoy the game?

Edited November 24, 2014 by Superghostboy

[=69.GIAP=Shvak 56]

"These is going to be a limited edition for 500 RUR in Russia. This will be a CD with only 2 planes available from start, Lagg-3 and Bf 109 F-4"  And I just feel sick. Talk about being royally shafted.  So that is why they installed the whole stupid grind unlock thing!

It would have been nice of some honesty from the developers regarding this. The fact that you are still selling a $94 lame assed product that some Russian can grind for $12 and have all the planes... When I first read this I though it was a joke. They can fly on our servers, use the same planes all they have to do is surprise UNLOCK them. So What did the $54 or $94 purchase get us? 777 studios just lost my respect -10. My guess is a few months from now the same offer will be available to everyone.

Edited November 24, 2014 by =69.GIAP=Shvak

[BlackDevil 79]

My guess is a few months from now the same offer will be available to everyone.

No - they can't do that, and it would be stupid!

 

Just unlocking all for the ones paying the full price would be enough. I can live with it, if guys in Russia , with much less cash available, can buy it cheaper.

[BlitzPig_EL 2855]

Gents, the numbers of players are down because only the hard core "full real"  "total immersion" type of players are left.

 

The sad truth is that the hard core guys are simply not enough to sustain this genre.

 

We tried to get all the Pigs back together yesterday on CloD.  Only 4 showed up. 

 

Why?  "Full real settings are no fun".   Mostly centered around the complex start and warm up procedure.

 

People want to play an air combat sim, not a study sim that is more about button pushing than flying.

 

I honestly can't believe I'm typing this, but it's the truth.  All of us rivet counting full real guys are killing the thing we like the best.

 

Oh the irony.

[sallee 568]

I'm still playing and enjoying it. Some things I could do without, but on balance I think it's great and will be better once I have finally unlocked everything. It's the best I can do to satisfy my yen to fly Soviet WWII aircraft.

[=69.GIAP=Shvak 56]

Gents, the numbers of players are down because only the hard core "full real"  "total immersion" type of players are left.

 

The sad truth is that the hard core guys are simply not enough to sustain this genre.

 

We tried to get all the Pigs back together yesterday on CloD.  Only 4 showed up. 

 

Why?  "Full real settings are no fun".   Mostly centered around the complex start and warm up procedure.

 

People want to play an air combat sim, not a study sim that is more about button pushing than flying.

 

I honestly can't believe I'm typing this, but it's the truth.  All of us rivet counting full real guys are killing the thing we like the best.

 

Oh the irony.

100% agree with you. But it is possible to have both. The original IL2 proved that.

[Yakdriver 452]

But for that you need  custom settings.
Ouch....

[Anw.StG2_Tyke 103]

Gents, the numbers of players are down because only the hard core "full real"  "total immersion" type of players are left.

 

The sad truth is that the hard core guys are simply not enough to sustain this genre.

 

We tried to get all the Pigs back together yesterday on CloD.  Only 4 showed up. 

 

Why?  "Full real settings are no fun".   Mostly centered around the complex start and warm up procedure.

 

People want to play an air combat sim, not a study sim that is more about button pushing than flying.

 

I honestly can't believe I'm typing this, but it's the truth.  All of us rivet counting full real guys are killing the thing we like the best.

 

Oh the irony.

Oh, I have to disagree with you on that. I don't know but the CloD-Community feels quite alive the last time I checked it. And I had Saturday a hell of fun against Spitfires above the channel.

And you made the wrong conclusion also, you see that a big majority of players left the game because the game doesn't fits their needs. Your conclusion is, that those people are killing the genre because they dislike a game which is, as stated from the devs, not for their needs developed but for a different target audience?

Did it ever came into your mind, that maybe a IL-2 BoS which were designed for the now abandoned majority may be wouldn't be that empty? Maybe there is no other target audience? Maybe the market don't want flightsimulations? Maybe this whole project was dammned from the beginning when it comes down to the Game designe?

 

And don't tell me CloD is complex, its just opening the fuel valve, pump some fuel hit the ignition open the rads and off you go with your Bf 109 and you can roam through the sky. There is nothing more complex than BoS.

 

No - they can't do that, and it would be stupid!

 

Just unlocking all for the ones paying the full price would be enough. I can live with it, if guys in Russia , with much less cash available, can buy it cheaper.

They can, its called abandone the game... you do it if you didn't made enough mony with the game to provide further support.

Ubisoft did this with Silent Hunter 5. And you know what? It is good to do so, because why the hell invest money into something which is a dead birth?

[ZG15_robtek 158]

Gents, the numbers of players are down because only the hard core "full real"  "total immersion" type of players are left.

 

The sad truth is that the hard core guys are simply not enough to sustain this genre.

 

We tried to get all the Pigs back together yesterday on CloD.  Only 4 showed up. 

 

Why?  "Full real settings are no fun".   Mostly centered around the complex start and warm up procedure.

 

People want to play an air combat sim, not a study sim that is more about button pushing than flying.

 

I honestly can't believe I'm typing this, but it's the truth.  All of us rivet counting full real guys are killing the thing we like the best.

 

Oh the irony.

Complex start-up procedure????? In CloD??????

Pushing 2 buttons (fuel valve and engine start) isn't really complex. And there is the option for already warmed up engines, afaik.

There is a saying: Those which want something will find a way, those who doesn't want it, find reasons.

Edited November 24, 2014 by I./ZG15_robtek

[DD_bongodriver 929]

2 bttns? rly? OMG! hardcore

[6S.Manu 156]

"These is going to be a limited edition for 500 RUR in Russia. This will be a CD with only 2 planes available from start, Lagg-3 and Bf 109 F-4"  And I just feel sick. Talk about being royally shafted.  So that is why they installed the whole stupid grind unlock thing!

It would have been nice of some honesty from the developers regarding this. The fact that you are still selling a $94 lame assed product that some Russian can grind for $12 and have all the planes... When I first read this I though it was a joke. They can fly on our servers, use the same planes all they have to do is surprise UNLOCK them. So What did the $54 or $94 purchase get us? 777 studios just lost my respect -10. My guess is a few months from now the same offer will be available to everyone.

 

Source?

[Brano 1469]

"These is going to be a limited edition for 500 RUR in Russia. This will be a CD with only 2 planes available from start, Lagg-3 and Bf 109 F-4"  And I just feel sick. Talk about being royally shafted.  So that is why they installed the whole stupid grind unlock thing!

It would have been nice of some honesty from the developers regarding this. The fact that you are still selling a $94 lame assed product that some Russian can grind for $12 and have all the planes... When I first read this I though it was a joke. They can fly on our servers, use the same planes all they have to do is surprise UNLOCK them. So What did the $54 or $94 purchase get us? 777 studios just lost my respect -10. My guess is a few months from now the same offer will be available to everyone.

Tell me smtg about that.Just learned that there was again massive sale with 70% discount on DCS during weekend.I bought Sabre for full 50$ price just a month ago and now it was for 15$? It is this kind of sales policy driving me far away from DCS for near future.