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Review of BoS on WT Game Hub Blog by Heinkill

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"Reasons Why I almost don't play Bos at the Moment."

 

The last ~10 days, this also counts for me. But the only reason for me right now is, that those 33people Max per server is just not enough, to create an immersive feeling. Right now they are almost pure dogfight servers, action between the 2 front-airfields. Because this is almost the only possibility to find other planes "in time", with such few planes airborne. I have to admit, i won't play it, until the player number get's raised again, to at least 60, hopefully 100 or more...

 

 

 

How long it takes is unimportant. Is the person doing it having fun? That is the fundamental question that a lot of multiplayer-only guys seem to be answering "no!" So, "get on with it and stop moaning" isn't really solving anything.

 

Yeah you are right, but i think, right now it's to late even for the developers, to change this. If they change it now, there would be definitely a lot of people screaming around, that they feel "cheated", because they "had to fly the campaign for no purpose" they "got forced". (i definitely wouldn't do this, i would be glad for many people, even if i unlocked almost everything the hard way - but a lot of people wouldn't). So i think right now, it's just about coming along with it, as good as possible. I myself have to admit, in the beginning, i really hated to "be forced" to play that SP stuff..but right now i can say, for me it was (partly) useful. I finally learned how to properly divebomb with the different planes, and my aim with the La5 and the 190 improved a lot during several intercept missions (you won't have so many targets in multiplayer in such a short time, nowhere near it), and i got a lot better in multiplayer with them after i did the campaign. So for me it was kind of an "aircraft familiarisation". When i look back now, i don't even have bad memories or thougts about the time i spend in the campaign. And i am really a MP-only guy. It's all about the mindset...

Edited by Celestiale
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Dude - it takes 20 hours or so to get the unlocks.

If you are a half way normal person and have a job/life, you have no time or patience to do the tick the box rubbish.

We just want to get online with some semblance of historical accuracy.

Welcome to video games. Seriously 20 hours is nothing. I expect these games to take a long time to get through. That's what I paid for.

A typical Call of Duty game might take 20 hours to play through. And flight sims? I've spent hundreds of hours on these. There's no burning reason a player needs all these unlocks right away. Multiplayer is fine without them.

Granted $60 is way above any AAA title. Granted $100 is way above any Deluxe/Collector's AAA title.

Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare is $60 and $100 for the deluxe edition. So such prices aren't out of the norm.

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Er... $40 for a Total War Rome 2 ? On launch ? Where ?

$40 for a Arma 3 release day ? Where ?

$40 for Advanced Warfare galore ? Where ?

 

Yes the world is not only USA and UK and my english use sounds very blunt like a maul, sorry for that and is never the intention, but BoS is as much as a wip after launch as CloD was wip after launch and overall the playability upon launch is spot on. Simply said ( and 90% of internet statistics are made up fyi ;)  ) too many CloD buyers simply couldn't WAIT.

 

Maybe we learned something with that mistake and now we give the benefit to BoS ? But then BoS has the devs behind it and money talks.

 

Not saying BoS or CloD are good or bad.

My point is ALL about the review being wrongly put together. All about that, nothing else.

 

S!

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One would expect the ground to be a target rich environment.. Boats transporting troops across the Volga. Something on the other side of the Volga would be nice. In fact the Volga is frozen over in game making it somewhat unrealistic for the early campaign.

Certainly there's nothing in the game engine that prevents action on the river. Rise of Flight has some great waterborne action, ships boats etc. I can see this getting added easily.

But the scale and number of ground units is always going to be limited due to the fact that this is a flight simulator. Heinkill is being either naive or unrealistic asking for action that rivals a current CGI movie. Hey I saw Stalingrad (2013) too and though hey wouldn't that be cool if our game looked like that but I understand that's impossible for a flight sim.

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Well the fact that people cannot agree give me a feeling this review was fair. I do not like the number rating system and I do not like the rating 1 ,2 9 , 10 because no sim to date have objectively deserved it to date. the rest I have absolutely no problems with

 

And those still bitching about the spent money, I hope it was not money that should have been used to feed your kids. Buying a game is a chance , you might not like it.

I personally only use 10 % of the games I bought

Edited by LuseKofte

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Welcome to video games. Seriously 20 hours is nothing. I expect these games to take a long time to get through. That's what I paid for.

A typical Call of Duty game might take 20 hours to play through. And flight sims? I've spent hundreds of hours on these. There's no burning reason a player needs all these unlocks right away. Multiplayer is fine without them.

 

Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare is $60 and $100 for the deluxe edition. So such prices aren't out of the norm.

 

I didn't pay for a video game.

I paid for a flight sim.

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I didn't pay for a video game.

I paid for a flight sim.

That's an argument that'll go no where, to be fair. What are flight sims other than video games? Just because you emotionally ascribe a difference, doesn't make it so.

 

Jus'sayin', not trying to be a dick.

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It was meant as an answer to the first sentence which I highlited:

"Welcome to video games. Seriously 20 hours is nothing. I expect these games to take a long time to get through. That's what I paid for."

 

Not trying to be a dick either.

 

Sry for off-topic though...

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It was meant as an answer to the first sentence which I highlited:

"Welcome to video games. Seriously 20 hours is nothing. I expect these games to take a long time to get through. That's what I paid for."

 

Not trying to be a dick either.

 

Sry for off-topic though...

Yeah, I gathered. I agree with you, to be clear.

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Thx for the feedback all, it enabled me to fine tune the review, and consensus across multiple forums is that it was generally balanced, which was an ambition in writing it as I tried to reflect a range of opinion, but in the end, it also has to reflect my own.

 

Heinkill is being either naive or unrealistic asking for action that rivals a current CGI movie. Hey I saw Stalingrad (2013) too and though hey wouldn't that be cool if our game looked like that but I understand that's impossible for a flight sim.

 

It's actually a compliment to be called naive at my advanced age and time in simming, thanks! Let me clarify that I am not actually asking for CGI level of action.

 

On the banks of the Volga at Stalingrad and at key airfields such as Gumrak and Pitomnik I think it would be a nice start, and easy to achieve to place more static objects such as bomb craters, wrecked vehicles/ships/infrastructure/aircraft  and undamaged objects such as boats/steamers, troop emplacements, camps/tents, cargo. A 'stained snow' tile type would also be great.

 

And all it would take to improve immersion would be one or two ships at a time moving back and forth from one side of the Volga to the other, or, given that the Volga is represented as frozen, a couple of convoys. Both the static and AI objects could be triggered by the player approaching, as other events in the campaign are, so they need not demand too much in the way of resources.

 

If this was done, several new mission types become available, such as:

 

- destroy enemy supplies on the banks of Volga / defend supplies

- attack enemy traffic across the Volga / defend against shipping/traffic attacks

 

No reason this could not be easily done within the bounds of the current game engine, just needs some new (wrecked) 3D models, some map builder time dedicated to key strategic areas which were heavily attacked like Gumrak and Pitomnik and some modification of the Volga tiles so that convoys of vehicles do not sink under the ice when they try to cross it. Heck you wouldn't even need to make a totally new 3D ship object for the Volga, just turn a couple of the land vehicles into steamers and small boats and they can trundle across the ice just like vehicles would, I wouldn't complain that they don't have a wake, that the ice is not realistically pushed aside, or that the game does not model damage to their props!

 

Pretty simple to include in a future update I would hope.

 

H

Edited by heinkill
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Leaving the numbers out of it, seems overall fair comment to me.

 

I cannot understand people who say that we should not make comparisons with other games. BoS does not exist in a vacuum, and players' expectations are conditioned by their previous experiences. When you buy a new car, you are going to be evaluating it against your expectations for that car based on its reputation and marketing, and comparing it with what you had before. If the developers had wanted to deflect comparisons with other IL-2 titles, they should not have used the IL-2 brand name.

 

So it is a real problem that BoS has features that are either inferior to previous flight sims AT LAUNCH or that are completely missing.

 

Then there is the issue of later improvements. These have obviously done a lot for IL-2 and for CLOD, so is it unfair to compare BoS to these titles in their finished state? In my view no, because the buyer is forced to make a choice to spend his money or his time between the available games. So to decide what he wants to do he has no choice but to compare them as they are now. So for instance I own CLOD, it worked just about OK for me, but was so obviously unfinished and buggy that I uninstalled. Now people are waxing lyrical about the modded version I am considering reinstalling, but in doing so I am going to be choosing to spend my time on one rather than the other, since I do not have time for both.

 

Finally there is the question of "supporting" a developer. I really do not see why I should buy a game that is not what I want in order to support a developer on the off chance that they might make a game I do want some time in the future.

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Thx for the feedback all, it enabled me to fine tune the review, and consensus across multiple forums is that it was generally balanced, which was an ambition in writing it

 

 

I think you succeeded quite well. The review was in my view quite fair, and and you were careful to state that it is your opinion. You critique of the map was very well argued.

 

Good job!

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Not quite. Some people stopped playing because of the epilepsy filter alone. But it did get removed later on. People with SLI kept flaming the devs while single GPU folks got the game going pretty well.

Go ahead and read CloD/BoS reviews at metacritic. Those games are very closely rated.

 

Of course, but the game wasn`t exactly trash like some people here imply. It was buggy but still a wip. And then they got closed.

 

 

Yes, true. CloD release 2011, BoS release 2014. Bottom line : ppl playing CloD.

 

And yes I agree that people should not mention CloD around here. Especially those writing untrue things about it.

 

Mac we can just agree to disagree on the whole issue.

 

Some people never got the chance to stop playing .. epilepsy filter or no because they could not run it at all.

All of these sims are or should be a WIP...

 

The problem I have with a lot of the pro CoD stuff that gets tossed about here is that from the moment this sim was announced certain people.. like you .. and  others have been on this forum continuously and almost fanatically promoting CoD or dragging it into just about every single discussion.. and it seems to me and of course I could be dead wrong.. but it seems to me that the unspoken underlying current of a lot of that is a deep seated resentment based on the erroneous notion that somehow BoS is the indirect cause for the demise of CoD. You and others like you have poo pooed and downplayed this sim at every turn from day one. In fact for all the smack you talk about it.. and the comparisons you do to CoD you still don't even have it ... If I am incorrect in that I apologize because just because you don't have a tag on your avatar does not mean that you have not bought the sim .. but from where I sit.. I can only ask.... WTH is all this about? Really....  And the thing is.... I don't see you all over the DCS forums doing the same thing...  and the banter about the facts of CoD in it's initial birth are fodder on every flight sim forum anywhere. It is the poster child for a botched flight sim release.. just as TF is the poster child for how to take a marginally decent product that was destined to become a footnote of sim history and turn it into a chapter in itself in the flight sim history books.

 

So to just kind of put my comments.. back OT a bit.. The review was good ... and it was fair. IMO since CoD was the only other WWII sim outside of WoP and it's mutant cousin WT, in in both cases the term "sim" barely applies..  that was released over the past decade worth mentioning.. and they share a common lineage .. mentions within certain contexts are understandable but the pi$$ing contests are not... They never have been.

 

It kind of remionds me of this commercial :

 

http://youtu.be/Yrrw0wNLc2g

 

Why can't we just... enjoy all the sims...?

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Decent review in my opinion. But the websites headline made me laugh so hard:  "With a new focus on the best flight games available today for PC: War Thunder, World of Planes, Battlefield and the ArmA series."  :lol: 

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lol... but the sad thing is, you shouldn't have to take any flak :(

I can't understand why there are people out there that try to put us all in a 'them and us' scenario?

There is room on my HD for all WWII and WWI flight sims, plus modern era jet sims etc, and I love playing them all...

As stated before, a good well balanced review. :)

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I have always found Heinkill's write ups to be top notch. There was also a review in PC Pilot but it is an older review .. It was written when thye sim was at about 90% I believe.. give or take..

+1

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I myself have to admit, in the beginning, i really hated to "be forced" to play that SP stuff..but right now i can say, for me it was (partly) useful. I finally learned how to properly divebomb with the different planes, and my aim with the La5 and the 190 improved a lot during several intercept missions (you won't have so many targets in multiplayer in such a short time, nowhere near it), and i got a lot better in multiplayer with them after i did the campaign. So for me it was kind of an "aircraft familiarisation". When i look back now, i don't even have bad memories or thougts about the time i spend in the campaign. And i am really a MP-only guy. It's all about the mindset...

 

This.  I think it needs to be said more.  I was thinking the self-same thing.  When you get a new game, you usually spend a bit of time in QMB trying stuff out, getting used to the FMs, learning gunnery, landing and so on, even if your main reason for playing is going to be MP.  I've just started the dreaded campaign and reached Celestiale's conclusion about it - I would probably would have done something similar on my own in QMB before going online anyway.  Unlocks (specially skins) neither here nor there for me.

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I spent sometime in weekend in playing single compaign to unlock the stuff,

I have to say it is a nightmare, I cannot image someone will enjoy it.

Ok, I don't mind you create some lock system. But you should make the compaign more interesting.

Now the the compaign is totally borning, NO story line. no Connection between the missions.

Even the missions itself are almost  totally same.

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It is completely irrelevant who is supporting a game as long as it is supported and has a community.

 

Hardly.  A game supported by volunteers that don't have access to the source code is in no way comparable to a game that is still supported by paid full-time programmers who have access to all the code.  It's not even close.

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No matter what angle you debate this...can't we all agree that these days......our beloved flight sims...go through an evolution process, which takes some time, which we really haven't given yet, for BOS.  It's got some problem areas...but Rome wasn't built in a day.....It has the potential to really be an awesome MP and SP simulation, but it's going to take some time getting there.  Hopefully, it will morph out into the best of what Cliff's of Dover has become, and yet retain some of the great features it currently has....

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An unpaid team of modders who have made an apparent 'inherently broken' simulator into arguably the best one, who said 'using unpaid volunteers' anyway?, I am simply saying it didn't have to be dumped, it is perfectly viable.

 

If you think it's viable you should buy the rights and get access to the code,  TF has done some amazing stuff, but they really need the source code for that game engine to have a viable future. 

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I didn't pay for a video game.

I paid for a flight sim.

You paid for a beta, there is no simulator in the genre CFS per se and you should know it. Most people would be bored to death if they where in a real simulator real time and no actions added. 

You have knowingly or unknowingly payed for a game, and that is the risk you take if you buy a game unseen. Being a simmer do not at all take away your personal responsibilities as a human bean. It is simply a fact you need to learn to live with. If you read about it in the dev report there are little that divert from what they said.

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Sounds a whole lot like BoS's campaign.

Really? Because I don't think I've had a boring flight yet. Luck of the draw I guess.

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Silly me. Just thought for a moment that this was a thread about a BoS review. In a BoS forum.

 

I also thought that.

... then it turned into the usual dispute between usual suspects.

 

Closing for now

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After giving this more thought since the reviewer removed all said refer4nces to CoD I have done the same in this thread and will now re open it.. Please keep all comments on BoS and Heinkill's review.

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After giving this more thought since the reviewer removed all said refer4nces to CoD I have done the same in thios thjread and will nopw re open it.. Please keep all comments on BoS and Heinkill's review.

 

Have we been at the pub..... :P;)

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Have we been at the pub..... :P;)

LOL.. no... just didn't notice it.

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A pretty fair review, but BOS does not have the best WWII aircraft modeling of any sim, nor the best DM.  I won't say which sims do, so you wimpy moderators can keep everything on track and looking nice through your Rose colored glasses, but you know which sims do have the best aircraft models and DMs.  If you doubt me I will gladly post sim to sim to sim comparison pictures. That claim should be changed Heinkill, IMHO.

 

And this quote is the simple common sense evaluation of the Xgrind unlocks.

How long it takes is unimportant.

Is the person doing it having fun? That is the fundamental question that a lot of multiplayer-only guys seem to be answering "no!"

So, "get on with it and stop moaning" isn't really solving anything.

 

S!Blade<><

Edited by BladeMeister

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A pretty fair review, but BOS does not have the best WWII aircraft modeling of any sim, nor the best DM.  I won't say which sims do, so you wimpy moderators can keep everything on track and looking nice through your Rose colored glasses, but you know which sims do have the best aircraft models and DMs.  If you doubt me I will gladly post sim to sim to sim comparison pictures. That claim should be changed Heinkill, IMHO.

 

And this quote is the simple common sense evaluation of the Xgrind unlocks.

How long it takes is unimportant.

 

Is the person doing it having fun? That is the fundamental question that a lot of multiplayer-only guys seem to be answering "no!"

 

So, "get on with it and stop moaning" isn't really solving anything.

 

S!Blade<><

 

Really? !! :(  Now why did you have to go there man.. Look if you can't come here and be civil then please do everyone a favor and just don't come here at all. That was totally uncalled for and solely done for the purpose of stirring up nonsense. You could have said that any number of less derogatory and inflammatory ways but you chose this way to just get a response.

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It was the most thorough and well done review I've seen.  I liked the later version with only BOS screenshots much better, and it rang true to me for the most part.

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OK... I'm not really that active with Il-2 anymore...

 

But can anyone point me in the direction of a better WW2 airsim?


I see that has been discussed, so I thought why not increase my horizons a bit further.

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OK... I'm not really that active with Il-2 anymore...

 

But can anyone point me in the direction of a better WW2 airsim?

I see that has been discussed, so I thought why not increase my horizons a bit further.

Suggest you start a new thread with that question so as not to derail this one again.

 

H

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But can anyone point me in the direction of a better WW2 airsim?

Yes. This one.

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