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Well, I gave it my best shot...End of story.


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I understand Goblin.  See Scoobe's post # 14 above.  I've been doing what he's doing.  Except I don't wash the car, I've been flying IL2 1946 coops with my squad buddies whilst BoS is running in the back ground.  Been flying Cliffs too whilst my pc does the grind for me. :biggrin:

 

I guess it's one way of using multiple CPU cores effectively in flight sims.

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I would like to see the unlocks restricted to the SP campaign and that by choice. If not that at least remove them for founders but all that may not be possible. We do not know.

 

The reason why people are still flying IL2 13 years later can be summed up in one word.

 

OPTIONS

 

It may be dated in every way.. but given the options available in IL2 across the board from plane set to scalability to net access and mission design it is still and will most likely remain for some time a serious contender in the WWII CFS genre given that as dated as it is with all of it's options and a still pretty darned good design as far as DM/graphics/FM goes.

 

Having said that ... I will never understand why the decision was made to do things this way. Hopefully at some point it wil change and if that does happen hopefully we won't be flooded with a new round of complaints from people who actually went through the unlocks.

 

Scoobe... sounds like a plan.

 

Not only is the unlock for FULL payers madness.

Not only is the lack of communication and ACTION on behalf of the devs after this self inflicted shitstorm demoralizing.

 

:mellow: I agree...

 

I wish for much in this sim, but right now with only 30 slots on multiplayer, I simply do not fly online. And I gave SP a shot at it. Well firstly all planes are perfectly flyable without unlocks, And those needed it took me two missions on each to gather them.

So I personally do not see any reason for this drama, what said on this subject is said. Nothing going to change so leave it or move on is my advice.  There is much in life that is desirable 

 

This will change from my understanding. The server SW is being worked on for optimization.

 

 

I really  hope such things get done, along with a Mission Editor and better server tools to let users make some great Multi-player missions.

But is that actually planned?  Last I heard, a proper campaign career mode with improved mission generator was not gonna be done.  :unsure:

 

From my understanding a ME is indeed planned. They are trying to make it more user friendly than the one in RoF which from my understanding is very powerful just a bit clunky to use.

 

I don't play this anymore and have'nt in a long time. It's simply ridicilous this unlock thing.

I work for a living and have a family to spend time with aswell, not to mention friends and
other hobbies! I simply don't have the time to mess around with this BS!

 

I paid (in my currency) a lot of money for this sim and it turns out it's not a simulation at all.

My goal was to fly together with friends in coop (or similar) as in the old IL-2 days.
 

Unfortunately my entire squad has opted out of this due to the unlocks and other quirks
and it's back to the old IL-2 1946 and DCS (perhaps CoD with TF mods).

 

It's unfortunate because we really see the potential here but no way we are grinding for unlocks
and flying air quake waiting for FMB and dedicated server.

 

That is my main issue as well. Time. I play in two bands (and the holiday season is here so that means a lot of work..) and have a full time job that is very demanding with an on call rotation every other week. I barely have the time to do my usual QMs and usually get them in in the morning.. like around now before I head out the door. That coupled with the fact that I never was a fan of campaign style simming anyway makes being forced to undergop it more of a PITA than anything. I have enough butt pains throughout the course of my day without having them added by something that was purchased to have fun with. I disagree with your idea that the unlocks make it less sim though. IMO it would be different if the grind was for better aircraft... I agree it has no place as a forced feature regardless.. but it makes BoS no less sim... IMO. It is just a poor choice of design that should in all honesty, especially based on the reaction of the community be removed or at the very least made optional or confined solely to the campaign. I think I am being kind when I say that @ 90% of the folks who own BoS, even the ones who are either going through the campaign or have done so already feel that the feature does more harm to the sim than good and should be done away with.

 

At the end of the day the bottom line for me is .. the sim is fun.. it is a good product with so so much potential and it could become a worthy successor to the IL2 name but that one feature has caused so much consternation within the ranks, far more than was necessary  and that will not change.. As long as that is a "feature" it will repel more new fliers than it will attract and that IMO should be what the bottom line is for the team. Do you want more people to buy your product sooner or not, because as we all know the longer it is out the closer it is to being sold for less than full price. If they want people to get it while it is hot they need to remove that big block of ice that some genius decided to drop in the pot  and then turn up the heat with the ME and the skin templates to get it to a more palatable temperature  and at least reconsider adding a bit more spice by rethinking the user options that they plan to make available to the community.

 

As good as BoS is it will never be a true successor to the IL2 legacy with self imposed shackles on it.

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Wasn't going to unlock anything, but on advice of a squad mate tried the autopilot/x2 and got to the fourth mission in 1st chapter.  I can't get past it despite the message saying 'mission successful'.  If I try the next mission, it is the same mission #4.  It says mission #4 over and over.  WTF?

 

See you over at RoF Vorly...

Edited by SYN_Bandy
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From my understanding a ME is indeed planned. They are trying to make it more user friendly than the one in RoF which from my understanding is very powerful just a bit clunky to use.

 

 

 

That's not true. Read last post by Jason about this subject. It's the same one from ROF:

 

 

"No, it when first released it will be just as it is now, same as ROF. We may, over time find ways to make it easier to use, but no promises or time-tables."

Edited by Jaws2002
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Too many bugs to get your silly unlocks , mission this morning ! shoot down enemy bombers or damage two , i shot down one and returned back to base , 100% success , exit mission ...no unlocks ....LOL..........this has got to be such a silly silly idea  . missions are all the same fly too way point , fly too action point ,the aircraft spawn in , fight 3 aircraft , fly to base land ... the most mundane missions ever.. not seen any ground fighting , oh and you get a few fighters on your return leg back to base , no history what so ever , its like the whole game is made for a 8-11 years old .....i shall just continue with the online side of things as i enjoy the multiplayer   , also noticed were has the black smoke gone over Stalingrad, i am on high settings .

 

wake me up when its over . yawn

Edited by II./JG77_Con
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I have this conspiracy theory that the unlock system is in place as a first step toward F2P, the Russians 12$ version also have grinding to unlock planes right?

 

Maybe not F2P like you think but there is something sketchy going on we dont know about. I would love to hear the roadmap they have for BOS for the year 2015. Because you either make an arcade game like Warthunder, Birds/Wings of prey or you make a sim like DCS and IL2 1946. But trying to make a semi sim with unlocks and leveling etc is like a genetic experiment that is doomed from start..

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Yeah, but if they weren't going to improve it in anyway,  keeping it only for the insiders for this whole time, was another control freak, bs move.

 

Anyone who wants to learn it can use the RoF one to familiarise themselves with the tutorials on how it works..

 

Cheers Dakpilot

Edited by Dakpilot
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Playing devils advocate, how is it different to battlefield 3 or any other title where you have to level up? I don't like the unlocks either but I realize that I did get what I paid for.

^^^^hehehe...come now did you really just compare the battle fraud series to a flight sim....

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I read that too, but the FMB is coming.

 

to play devils advocate they could have released the FMB with the game and gave us an "improved" version later, they obviously have a working version right now. I am going through the ME tut's right now...yes its a but clunky but give me a few weeks and will be second nature.

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Anyone who wants to learn it can use the RoF one to familiarise themselves with the tutorials on how it works..

 

Cheers Dakilot

 

Who cares about ROF? This is another game, isn't it?  How is that going to help you in this game now? It's about using it in this game to make missions. 

So many excuses for what it's simply just another patronizing move.  

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Well, except for the fact that it is apparently the same in layout, function, and operation, nothing, I guess, Jaws.

 

It's the same thing, it was done and paid for ages ago, when we paid for ROF, we paid for it in this game as well, for the second time, so why keep it only for insiders?

 

Playing with it in ROF, would not make your BOS experience more bearable now, when the offline career is a boring to tears experience and the online badly needs servers and missions.

Edited by Jaws2002
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It's the same thing, it was done and paid for ages ago, when we paid for ROF, we paid for it in this game as well, for the second time, so why keep it only for insiders?

 

Playing with it in ROF, would not make your BOS experience more bearable now, when the offline career is a boring to tears experience and the online badly needs servers and missions.

 

They are working on sorting out the MP, it has been discussed in Dev diaries. No point in trying to put the roof on until the foundations are firm, whichever way you look at it

 

Cheers Dakpilot

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Jaws said:
 

"It's the same thing, it was done and paid for ages ago, when we paid for ROF, we paid for it in this game as well, for the second time, so why keep it only for insiders?

 

Playing with it in ROF, would not make your BOS experience more bearable now, when the offline career is a boring to tears experience and the online badly needs servers and missions."

 

 

Well Jaws, at least the forum's a barrel of laughs. 

Edited by No601_Swallow
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What I was trying to say was that learning it in ROF would you help you be familiar with how it operates so that when it is released for BOS you will be able to use it easily. So no, it would not help you make missions in BOS right at this exact second, but it will help ultimately you make missions in BOS.

As for why it was not released now, I have no idea.

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Not every game is for every gamer. Not every sim is for every simmer. Not every car is for every driver.

 

Gladly BoS has a good acceptance as it is. Hopefully it will evolve to a point where no "reverse hacking" is needed to make it worth.

 

OOC: Mighty 8th is on budget sale on Steam btw.

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Unlocks = stupidity or an expensive War Thunder.

 

Our pleas are falling on deaf ears, nobody is listening, Big Ego's are at stake here and it looks like no Humble pie can be eaten.

 

Its a terrible state of affairs "War Thunder lite" experience for all, Gajjin have that area covered though, so why compete with them?

 

Did anyone take any notice when the mighty Microsoft tried to dumb down its long standing 20 year Flight Simulator franchise and release MS Flight? to attract newbies.

 

Colossal failure, it lasted how long ... not even a year, they should have stuck to their roots, now Lockheed Martin and others are capitalising on Microsoft's mistakes, good luck to them.

 

If there is a lesson to be learned here its from that. It should not always be about making ever increasing *massive* profits, that line of work is just like a Donkey walking towards a carrot dangled on the end of a string. eventually the Donkey will collapse and die.

 

What's so wrong with just making a profit to make a good living and invest on? Why has it always got to be More More More? :( what's wrong with equilibrium? There is only so much blood to be squeezed out of a stone.

 

There is a market for hard core flight sim, dumbing it down for more profit to attract more users does not always work, you just have to look at what's happening here to see it simply just does not work!

 

This genre is a niche, let it stay that way, dont stray from roots, exploit those roots, let Gajjin bring in newcomers who eventually will look for something more rewarding and less instant gratification than War Thunder is ... with luck they will look here, if not what we have here is a more expensive option of the same and nobody's going to buy that.

 

Please listen powers that be, please listen.

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Aswell banned BoS right now off the hard disk, after I gave it another try for 2 days.

I was really suffering to follow this unlock force bollecks, but getting CtD after wasting my freetime and gaining nothing, so I would have to grind again, is just too much of it for me.

 

Once again, 777 you created a great basis for simmer.

Due your decisions you broke the game.

We will come back when the unlock force stuff gets revised.

 

 

To be honest I can hardly believe this unlock stuff is sth the complete team supports, as I know some from former Il2 1946 online sessions and I supposed we had the same "DNA".

 

It comes to mind that 777 is sawing the tree they are sitting at, although the tree is acutally very healthy ... well sth like that....sounds a bit more resonable in my language.

Edited by 1./JG42Nephris
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2014_11_4__17_26_58_zps99ce4f96.jpg

 

As of yesterday I'm stuck with my progress too.

Game doesn't update your points anymore, but I heard it's gonna be fixed.

 

And BTW this Yak is probably the new best, it's fast and extremely agile... I feel more so than in 1946.

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Aswell banned BoS right now off the hard disk, after I gave it another try for 2 days.

I was really suffering to follow this unlock force bollecks, but getting CtD after wasting my freetime and gaining nothing, so I would have to grind again, is just too much of it for me.

 

Once again, 777 you created a great basis for simmer.

Due your decisions you broke the game.

We will come back when the unlock force stuff gets revised.

 

 

 

 

I do believe this is a cause for concern, I am pretty much in the same category and I am a single player guy.

While I have not actually uninstalled the sim yet ( not like I don't have a lot of drive space), I have not played it since the day after the SP system was unleashed, and likely will not. I keep it updated, and try to keep some level of hope alive for it for myself.

 

I suspect there are probably many more SP guys like myself than we know.

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^^^^hehehe...come now did you really just compare the battle fraud series to a flight sim....

Purely to demonstrate that if you buy a game that has unlocks in it, it's not abnormal. 

You can apply the same thing to say Skyrim or a similar RPG. I paid for 60 levels of game play but I have to unlock them. I didn't see anyone complaining that on Skyrim that they paid level 60 so they should get level 60 right away. 

I don't agree with the unlocks at all but I can at least apply some common sense to my arguments against them. 

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That why I do not have them  :)  Games for Xboxs can have it..  good for them but flight sim?   A joke...   all others games you see have a strong story line.. again mixing it up doesn't end in a good result.

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I agree.

 

I dont know if Jason is an ambassador for these products or the outright owner as many different Sim site think he is?

 

From what I've read he is a Flight Sim enthusiast just like the rest of us and maybe trapped in contracts ... I dont know? ... I always like to think the best of a person first.

 

As a long time flight sim enthusiast and a bit of a flight sim historian Geek, I'd like to know :)

 

But the one point I believe we all agree on is that BoS now seems to be going on a tangent that the hardcore simmers here dont like, it could be that current powers that be ... from Russia? (and Russians are a know stubborn race whom I admire greatly) wont move an inch and I'll have to accept that.

 

Reluctantly accept that :(

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I hesitate posting this, but I hate to see people give up on it because of the unlocks.

 

It took me 2 weeks and 2 days to unlock everything. (Playing 2-3 hours each day) When I say everything I mean EVERYTHING. All Planes, Campaigns, Skins, Weapons, Airfields whatever. Nothing is locked on my account.  Get this,  I didn't even set up my joystick yet.  How did I do it? 

 

Simple. Select plane and airfield, select normal flight. Select bombing or a ground attack mission ( most likelyhood of success). Press "A" and let the autopilot fly the entire mission. Press bracket key for 2x acceleration. Turn off monitor and go do something else. I went outside and racked leaves, got the car washed etc..  Came back in about 15 mins. Mission should be over by then and plane should be back on friendly airfield. Collect your unlocks. Keep repeating this and once a plane is unlocked, move on to another plane. Now I can enjoy the sim, go on multiplayer and have everything at my disposal.  I am playing the campaign again, but this time, I'm doing all the flying and have everything available to me. Its awesome!

 

Its not fun to do it this way, but it gets it out of the way and you can enjoy it once your done. Note: the autopilot will get shot down or crash once in a while. I figured about 2 out of 5 times it never returned and I didn't get any XP or unlocks. If that happens, just restart the mission. some planes took longer than others. Stuka gets shot down a lot and so does the LA5. They took the longest to unlock.

 

Once you unlock everything, the is game is awesome!   Don't give up!

 

Rob     

 

 

I trust you realize how utterly stupid it sounds. Not what you say, but what it has come to being able to do something 99% of costumers don't want to do in a game they paid for just to get back what they already paid for, and payed top dollar for i might ad.

 

 

Its completely insane, so much so im starting to wonder if i went to sleep and woke up in the twilight zone.

 

 

Again, just used your post to highlight the insanity of it all.

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Purely to demonstrate that if you buy a game that has unlocks in it, it's not abnormal. 

You can apply the same thing to say Skyrim or a similar RPG. I paid for 60 levels of game play but I have to unlock them. I didn't see anyone complaining that on Skyrim that they paid level 60 so they should get level 60 right away. 

I don't agree with the unlocks at all but I can at least apply some common sense to my arguments against them. 

 

Poor analogy

 

This is a supposed to be hard core Flight Sim with Il2 as its foundation, how you can compare it with a game like Skyrim is beyond me?

 

Totally different concept.

 

Dont get me wrong, Skyrim is a nice good looking game, but the award/system is much more appropriate there than it is with BoS IMHO, please dont let BoS be an RPG too.

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  • 1CGS

I agree.

 

I dont know if Jason is an ambassador for these products or the outright owner as many different Sim site think he is?

 

From what I've read he is a Flight Sim enthusiast just like the rest of us and maybe trapped in contracts ... I dont know? ... I always like to think the best of a person first.

 

As a long time flight sim enthusiast and a bit of a flight sim historian Geek, I'd like to know :)

 

But the one point I believe we all agree on is that BoS now seems to be going on a tangent that the hardcore simmers here dont like, it could be that current powers that be ... from Russia? (and Russians are a know stubborn race whom I admire greatly) wont move an inch and I'll have to accept that.

 

Reluctantly accept that :(

 

I am a board member and one of the share holding partners and Executive Producer of BOS and President of 777 Studios which is now a subsidiary of 1CGS. My responsibilities are many and varied just as they were with ROF development.

 

Jason

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  • 1CGS

That's not true. Read last post by Jason about this subject. It's the same one from ROF:

 

 

"No, it when first released it will be just as it is now, same as ROF. We may, over time find ways to make it easier to use, but no promises or time-tables."

 

The current ME is awash in ROF remnants that need to be cleaned out before we release it. By saying the "same" I mean the interface. Some of the logic of BOS is different simply because some of the gameplay is different etc. and we need to account for that in the ME. There are also some bugs in MP we need to squash before we feel confident letting this loose to the wider public. What users don't like is the interface, they love the awesome triggers etc. that our ME provides, but they don't like how it is presented. We are looking at ways to incrementally improve the interface or add additional functionality over time, but right now we will work to provide the ME as quickly as possible and avoid as many unnecessary issues as possible when we do.

 

Jason

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Poor analogy

 

This is a supposed to be hard core Flight Sim with Il2 as its foundation, how you can compare it with a game like Skyrim is beyond me?

 

Totally different concept.

 

Dont get me wrong, Skyrim is a nice good looking game, but the award/system is much more appropriate there than it is with BoS IMHO, please dont let BoS be an RPG too.

Reading is hard I guess.

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The current ME is awash in ROF remnants that need to be cleaned out before we release it. By saying the "same" I mean the interface. Some of the logic of BOS is different simply because some of the gameplay is different etc. and we need to account for that in the ME. There are also some bugs in MP we need to squash before we feel confident letting this loose to the wider public. What users don't like is the interface, they love the awesome triggers etc. that our ME provides, but they don't like how it is presented. We are looking at ways to incrementally improve the interface or add additional functionality over time, but right now we will work to provide the ME as quickly as possible and avoid as many unnecessary issues as possible when we do.

 

Jason

Good.

 

The old FMB from the original provided an exponential factor of possibilities to the single player end user, squads and online community - with a proper Mission building tool, BoS can takeoff for good.

...and ONLY then.

 

Thanks for the news.

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  • 1CGS

Mainstay,

 

I can't go into big detail at the moment. The main points have already been laid out there by Loft in his last developer diary. Basically the focus is fixing bugs like CTDs and improving the gameplay in the Campaign and smaller items like the AI command interface. We are also preparing the ME, Dserver, Skin Viewer and Skin Templates and the AI Ju-52. We continue to watch player stats and usage behavior and comments on the forum. The guys had a long holiday weekend in Russia so I will talk to them out current status of some things when they return tomorrow. We are also working on our Ilya Muromets project and a patch for ROF to fix some bugs reported there.

 

So the basic line is make sure the game you bought works and expand its functionality in MP as promised and continue evaluate the response by our customers.

 

I know nothing earth shattering there but that is the current situation.

 

Jason

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I trust you realize how utterly stupid it sounds. Not what you say, but what it has come to being able to do something 99% of costumers don't want to do in a game they paid for just to get back what they already paid for, and payed top dollar for i might ad.

 

 

Its completely insane, so much so im starting to wonder if i went to sleep and woke up in the twilight zone.

 

 

Again, just used your post to highlight the insanity of it all.

 

I hear ya!   Its a shame that it has to come to this, but rather than putting BOS aside and hope that in the future the unlocks will be removed, Id rather get it all out of the way now. like pulling off a band aid. So I spent my 1st 2 weeks with this game letting it iron itself out for me and clear the unlocks.  Now, I can go ahead and enjoy it (which I am). It Is sad that it comes to this and I agree its a little insane to do it this way, but there was enough in this game that impressed me that it was worth my time.  I don't regret it.

 

Rob

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Mainstay,

 

I can't go into big detail at the moment. The main points have already been laid out there by Loft in his last developer diary. Basically the focus is fixing bugs like CTDs and improving the gameplay in the Campaign and smaller items like the AI command interface. We are also preparing the ME, Dserver, Skin Viewer and Skin Templates and the AI Ju-52. We continue to watch player stats and usage behavior and comments on the forum. The guys had a long holiday weekend in Russia so I will talk to them out current status of some things when they return tomorrow. We are also working on our Ilya Muromets project and a patch for ROF to fix some bugs reported there.

 

So the basic line is make sure the game you bought works and expand its functionality in MP as promised and continue evaluate the response by our customers.

 

I know nothing earth shattering there but that is the current situation.

 

Jason

 

Thank you for your quick reply. Lets hope our hopes and dreams will be implemented :)

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I am a board member and one of the share holding partners and Executive Producer of BOS and President of 777 Studios which is now a subsidiary of 1CGS. My responsibilities are many and varied just as they were with ROF development.

 

Jason

 

 

Dont worry Jason.

 

Your name is up there with the Flight Sim Hall of Greats.

 

Talking ...

 

Gilman Louie

 

Bill Gates <---  Yes Bill Gates, he is a massive flight sim fan and its no surprise when he left MS that the long standing Ms Flight sim he supported was dumped in favour of MS Flight, and we all know what happened there.

 

Many more.

 

Jason, you are just in the Fortunate or Unfortunate position just now of being in the spotlight with focus upon you ... and that cant be easy.

 

I trust and hope you will do your your best to try salvage what has now become a BoS Fiasco.

 

Mate, its not just SimHQ who are reporting what's going on here, its on lots and lots of sites, as a Founder I first learned what was going on from the OcUK  casual game forums and had to come see for myself, its went viral.

 

Please Jason, if you have any influence whatsoever, please try make a difference if you can.

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one question:

 

why must Han spent time and money on something so hideous to the unlock?
We have tried over and over again with the Leaderboard in RoF. useless, buggy and now totally abandoned, history repeats itself ...

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