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MaverickF22

Anti Aircraft Guns (not flak) have an inhuman accuracy!

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We all know that the WW2 AA guns didn't have any kind of aiming computer or system (like modern AA's do which have radar) which can predict a precise aiming ahead of the target. Why are the AA guns having such great accuracy and continuously predict the interception aiming with no delay? Is there a possibility to reduce the human handled AA guns accuracy in the future, or at least to make them predict harder and with some delay how much ahead of the target the gun should be pointing for the bullets to hit it? That would bring a more realistic experience from my opinion when you go up against AA guns or your chances to destroy any without being seriously hit are very thin and in contrast for those times.

 

Please correct me if I exaggerate but I believe that a normal human anti aircraft gunner can't have such precise aiming.

 

Thank you!

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I hear you , been saying now for a few days , i was so low yesterday , i was at treetop level and still got a direct hit , even at 3000m i get direct hits , ive even see big black smoke at high altitude from a direct hits on aircraft  . Flak guns were used as area weapons . yes it caused damaged and yes brought down planes as all seen in WWII footage . i did three stuka missions and each time i was downed by one direct hit . didn't fly straight either .

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I wonder if this is a holdover from Rise of Flight.  There the guns were so accurate they would get direct hits on maneuvering aircraft from a gun mounted on a truck driving down the road.  I think most of the gunners were Olympic skeet shooters before the war.

 

"War is easy!  I don't even have to say 'pull'!  The targets just come to me."

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I think he talk about the low Calibre Guns not the big ones, sry if im wrong.

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Are you flying QMs? Because this does not reflect what I see in campaign. Lately I've been flying ground attack/CAS and bombing almost exclusively, and though I occasionally get hit by a stray round, I've perhaps been shot down twice in like 50 missions, and I've not been particularly careful, even though there's plenty of Flak around in most missions.

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After flying some more with the Stuka and also doing ground-attacks in the German fighters, i think the Russian 37mm is too accurate. The other AAA (88/85mm, 20mm, MGs) is fine imo. The 20mm hail can look a bit scary, but still misses almost all the time. But the 37mm is really nasty. I don't think i ever got hit by the 88/85mm guns, but i didn't really fly the He 111 that often and it might be a problem there.

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I hear you , been saying now for a few days , i was so low yesterday , i was at treetop level and still got a direct hit , even at 3000m i get direct hits , ive even see big black smoke at high altitude from a direct hits on aircraft  . Flak guns were used as area weapons . yes it caused damaged and yes brought down planes as all seen in WWII footage . i did three stuka missions and each time i was downed by one direct hit . didn't fly straight either .

Yeap, but you're talking about the flak, which indeed should not in any way be able to shoot below a certain elevation angle (so the further you are from them, the higher you could get without getting shot at) so this might also need a tweak by the programmers, but there are these nasty AA guns men that are like "ROBOCOP" when they spot you and hold a 100% accurate tracking on you all the time. The only realistic thing is that the bullets don't go on a straight line (example: when the AA gun is shooting with little or no movement), but are spread through a cone/funnel, otherwise all the bullets would've hit a target giving their actual aiming accuracy.

Edited by MaverickF22

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Are you flying QMs? Because this does not reflect what I see in campaign. Lately I've been flying ground attack/CAS and bombing almost exclusively, and though I occasionally get hit by a stray round, I've perhaps been shot down twice in like 50 missions, and I've not been particularly careful, even though there's plenty of Flak around in most missions.

You are right if you say that there's a low chance in being shot down or even hit when flying around AAA defended areas, but not so much when you are close enough to see their actual perfect aiming accuracy (except the bullets spread along the path which is realistic) and when you have to actually destroy an AA gun if the mission requires such task, it becomes almost impossible to destroy it without being seriously hit or dead already way before you could even shoot it.

 

I have indeed destroyed many AA guns so far with different tactics, some tactics that I've invented helped me to get even closer to the guns untouched before being able to shoot them, then still I had only a 10% chance that I destroy them without getting severely damaged after they started firing at me.

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It's really strange. It doesn't at all reflect my own experience. In the campaign I've attacked a multitude of heavily defended airfields and practically never been shot down. I lose the occasional wingman and get hit by stray rounds, but there's only one time I think I've been downed by a single burst of fire from an airfield, and that was on the return leg of a CAS mission, where I flew straight and level at 200m in my IL-2 and didn't notice that I flew right over an enemy airfield hidden in the snow. In that case I presented such a perfect target, that I absolutely deserved the snowy plunge.

 

I wonder why our experiences are so vastly different? What pilot level are you? (I'm level 7) If you're level 10 it might just be, that the AAA gets a significant skill boost on the last 3 levels?

Edited by Finkeren

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It's quite accurate when flying at low altitudes..

 

It is still UBER deadly sometimes, at every single train attack mission, my plane will take some damages, most of them in the engine block..

But it's not a bad thing, pilot feared the AA's at this time, and i do like the immersion that those ''dangers'' provides

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S!

 

 Pilot levels puts a large sign "SHOOT ME!" above your plane so AI knows to track your every moment within the engagement profile coded to them. WW2 AAA was a barrage and area denial weapon, not a modern Phalanx anti-missile system tracking a fly even ;) Thus required a lot of them to be effective, to put enough lead in the air.

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It's really strange. It doesn't at all reflect my own experience. In the campaign I've attacked a multitude of heavily defended airfields and practically never been shot down.

 

You're conflating two different things here I think. There's a difference between not getting shot down as you know the tactics to handle the AAA in BOS and what is realistic AAA gunnery behaviour. Avoiding AAA in BOS is not massively difficult once you don't fly directly at one or don't fly level past some emplacements. I think the issue that some people have with AAA is that the ability of the AI gunners to predict where your plane is going to be in the sky is a little over-exaggerated. So you make a high speed pass over the airfield and then jink to throw off the AAA aim. They then immediately adjust and fire to where they think you'll be in a second or two but that's OK as you've jinked again and are no longer heading there so they miss. This gets repeated until your clear.

 

In reality gunners would not have been able to instantly work out a during solution for your new course so quickly and AAA and flak was more of an area denial weapon. I don't mind the way things are in BOS as it does mean you have to be careful with how you attack well defended sights but the mechanic behind it isn't the most realistic. 

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Again, this simply doesn't jive with my experience. I'm not particularly careful around AAA and often forget to take evasive action when flying a straight course. Yet I still don't see the accuracy you talk about.

 

I also don't recognise the accuracy during high speed passes. When I fly right overhead a AAA emplacement they almost never fire at me after I've passed and if they do, they miss far and wide as they should.

 

I'm not trying to be dismissive. I just wonder why we have such different impression of the AAA in BoS.

 

It might well be, that the ack-ack in BoS doesn't behave 'realistically' from a historical perspective. That could certainly deserve a closer look to see what can be done. (Don't expect too much though, it's not like the attacking planes follow historically correct attack patternes or fly in historically correct formation sizes either)

 

I just can't recognise the picture of AAA in campaign being 'inhumanely accurate'.

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Going through 100% Intercept missions with the Lagg in the Campaign, and all the times i've been shot at only 1 I had to crash land.

 

Now the gunners spray in the path i'm flying so i tend to go through from the 4 o'clock high or 8 o'clock, for half a second. Sometimes a bullet goes into the wing or the fuselage on non vital parts, sometimes it strikes the nose and punctures an oil tube...

 

It is a matter of unluck if you don't stay too long playing the sitting duck game, because more than half a second on a 111 open angle will increase the chances of being badly damaged exponentially.

 

So far i've not seen anything that shows them overpowered or extremely accurate. They even miss the deflections most of the time and you see the trails blazing front of you or trailing behind.

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You're conflating two different things here I think. There's a difference between not getting shot down as you know the tactics to handle the AAA in BOS and what is realistic AAA gunnery behaviour. Avoiding AAA in BOS is not massively difficult once you don't fly directly at one or don't fly level past some emplacements. I think the issue that some people have with AAA is that the ability of the AI gunners to predict where your plane is going to be in the sky is a little over-exaggerated. So you make a high speed pass over the airfield and then jink to throw off the AAA aim. They then immediately adjust and fire to where they think you'll be in a second or two but that's OK as you've jinked again and are no longer heading there so they miss. This gets repeated until your clear.

 

In reality gunners would not have been able to instantly work out a during solution for your new course so quickly and AAA and flak was more of an area denial weapon. I don't mind the way things are in BOS as it does mean you have to be careful with how you attack well defended sights but the mechanic behind it isn't the most realistic. 

 

You've told exactly and in detail what I was trying to mean about the AA guns! Thanks mate!

 

I personally was able to destroy 4 particular AA guns at an airfield when I chose a Quick Mission scenario with the IL-2 aircraft and landed safely afer that, so my skill isn't bad, yet that was a 1 in 100 chance that I don't get badly damaged/hurt after doing so. And yes, I was doing all the needed moves, yanks, climbs, etc. while I was ingressing for a shot and then egressing to turn around again, and still, those robot like humans behind the guns knew exactly where to aim for an instant moment (so indeed they only predict the instantaneous aiming solution and won't compensate for curved trajectories (climbs/turns)) without any second thoughts and had a very good chance to hit you now and then althouth you did the best manoeuvres, so that's why I also think they have an exaggerated aim.

 

I propose that the devs could try the following scenario to clarify if the AA guns AI is too good, too poor or if it's OK as it is in comparison to a real human's aiming precision/ability:

 

They could try to manually control (probably with the mouse) an AA gun and try to shoot down a player aircraft that is doing fly-byes, turns, yanks and all kind of evasive manoeuvres in front of them and at a 90 degree flight path from the AA gunner's view..., and this way they can compare their accuracy with that of the AI AA guns and see the results. I bet the AI AA gunners are having a much better prediction and accuracy than the majority of real human players.

Edited by MaverickF22

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Again, this simply doesn't jive with my experience. I'm not particularly careful around AAA and often forget to take evasive action when flying a straight course. Yet I still don't see the accuracy you talk about.

 

I also don't recognise the accuracy during high speed passes. When I fly right overhead a AAA emplacement they almost never fire at me after I've passed and if they do, they miss far and wide as they should.

 

I'm not trying to be dismissive. I just wonder why we have such different impression of the AAA in BoS.

 

 

Hello mate,

 

That's because you haven't probably pressed F5 to see the enemy AA gunner when you were closing in on him to see how he reacts and aims in relation to where you are. The fact that he fires so late is usually going on because he's pointed somewhere else than your position and they only get into action and try to turn the turret towards you only after you are like 2km away or something, so if the AA gunner has you at his 6 position (he has to turn 180 degrees towards you) he'll take the time to turn almost as much it takes you to fly over it, so i've also encountered this situation and never hit me well from afar after I passed it. Yet if you are closing in less than 1km from it and it's already aimed at you..., you're having little chance to escape from it's mouth without trouble no matter how good you are!

Edited by Rama

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I thought I was the only one who noticed this. I get popped so easy when trying to destroy factories and bridges.

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