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Pe-2's are kicking my butt!

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Ok, playing through the campaign with the 109 F4.  Getting a lot of bomber intercept missions and these darn Pe-2's are making my life a living hell. :(

 

What are the best tactics to use in order to attack these things without getting myself shot to pieces each and every time?

 

Ciao,

 

Lou

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What you should always avoid is sitting behind them. Instead, dive on them from steep angles, preferably from the sides or the front. If you have sufficient speed you may even zoom up to their belly. Know the gunners' dead-zones. After you finish your pass, zoom up again to set up a new pass (or pick a new target). If necessary, pick the gun pods as well although I would advise against it because the handling is quite different (worse) and it's entirely possible to take down 3-4 Pe 2s with the 200 cannon rounds you have.

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they do have crazy good aim, sometimes I get away with shooting them from behind, but I got shot down so many times that I just started using the boom and zoom tactics, but never getting towards the back of the plane. You can dive the plane horizontally, or shoot at it from under (which can be tricky) and you shouldnt get shot. 

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High side attack.

And watch their wingmen- they are dangerous as well.

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I normally go for high side attacks with a steep zoom to position for another go. It must be effective, as the gunners never struck me as being especially accurate.

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At first I thought they were shooting lasers, but it was because I was coming in from straight behind. I started getting altitude on them and zooming down at 600+ kph, snapping a quick burst and zooming back up. They haven't hit me since.

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I use the gun pods.

 

Set convergence to 600M and spray 

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I use the gun pods.Set convergence to 600M and spray

 

Or set convergence to 250 meters, zoom in until the wings cover the windshield, pull the trigger for about 1 second and watch "mission complete"appear at the top of the screen .....

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The most vulnerable time attacking them is when they go into a wide spiraling dive for the deck. It forces you into a tail chase. It's better to back off at that point and re-engage when they level out.

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High side attacks is the way to go. Without the blister turret the Pe-2 rear gunner has a very limited field of fire. If you are at 4 or 8 o'clock you're safe.

 

If you find yourself in a position, where you'll end up on his tail, instead dive down below him, quickly pull up and spray his underside and then roll away. The belly gunner takes about 2-4 sec to get his gun in firing position, and if you don't approach from below you have a small safe window of opportunity beneath his tail.

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Ok, playing through the campaign with the 109 F4.  Getting a lot of bomber intercept missions and these darn Pe-2's are making my life a living hell. :(

 

What are the best tactics to use in order to attack these things without getting myself shot to pieces each and every time?

 

Ciao,

 

Lou

 

 

Pe2 engines have no armor from underneath them. The safest way to kill a Pe2 is to dive below their altitude level ~1km behind them, to build energy. Then when you are around ~300m behind them and ~150m below them, pull up, get one engine in line of your longitudinal axis, and start shooting with your Mg(only, you don't need cannons) when the Pe engine is on top of your cross hairs. Stop shooting once the Pe2 is out of your cross hairs, and watch the aircraft burning to death  :biggrin: . This way you can kill countless bombers(you need very little Mg rounds), with a very very low chance to get hit yourself. This is not easy, and takes a little practice, but ones you got it, no Pe2 will harm you ever again ;)

 

Or you do the easy way, BnZ from high 6, at least with the 190 this is also ~95% safe when you have enough speed advantage.

I myself am very bad in horizontal angle shots, so i never attack them from the side (4 or 8 o'clock), because i waste a lot of bullets without hitting the enemy plane. But if you are good at it, like Finkeren (  :biggrin:  ) then this is of course also a good idea

Edited by Celestiale

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S!

 

 Attacking from below was actually used by Lentolaivue 34 in 1944 when defending Kotka harbour. There was no belly gunner in most planes, not to mention the side gun. In most cases only the top gun. And this way they shot down quite a few Pe-2's before the escorting fighters even knew what was going in below them as they expected the Finns to dive in from higher altitude :P

Edited by LLv34_Flanker

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they do have crazy good aim, sometimes

 

The only plane that is crazy good at aim thats the Stuka. :)

 

Now back to the best tactics:

 

- Attack them from above to use the high speed above 600 km/h to say hello and goodbye. :biggrin:

- Some planes you can attack from below but not all. ( Not the best way )

- If the enemy plane turn and you turn with him at low speed and very close. At this moment the turret gunner never shoot at you.  Be careful if the enemy plane ends his turn and fly straight at this moment the turret gunner start to shooting at you.

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I was like :o: when I hit 109 for the first time as a Pe-2 gunner... I saw several black puffs and 109 was engulfed in flames.

Those dead 6 approaches on Pe-2's are deathtraps.

 

Long time ago I realized that eagle-like above attacks work excellent vs any bomber so I always try to employ that if I play seriously.

Some time I'll upload my old IL-2 anti bomber tracks on youtube :) .

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as others have said, it is not firepower, not speed, not who has the better equipment.
find out where to hurt them. find out where the gunners can not even see you.
it's about how, and from where you attack your enemy.

don't fly hard. fly smart!

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S!

 

 That is why I try to hit Pe-2's between the engine and fuselage. Fuel tanks! And according to FiAF veterans encountering the Pe-2's burned like torches when hitting there.

Edited by LLv34_Flanker

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Dunno when you bought the game, OP, but if you have access to the 20mm gunpods straight away the F4 has little to no problems with them. Regardless of tactics, really.

Pod-less F4, G2 and 190 are a different matter entirely of course.

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Attack straight from above. Big target area, cant really miss and burns quick this way.

Guns cant reach you there as well.

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I was reading this thread before and not really experiencing any difficulty and then suddenly my luck ran out. I've lost 5 fighters to Stuka gunners in the last 5 missions. The high pass works but anything else and suddenly they have a dead aim on your engine and pilot... I've never had this kind of difficulty. Even IL-2's past sniper gunners.

 

They are tough. Maybe too tough. I don't know. Going to need to keep trying... and losing more fighters :)

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Flying online in a PE-2 you are basically a target, it is easy to get shot down, the only chance you got in it is defense gunnery. As easy the planes catch fire it is only fair it is easier to protect yourself

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Flying online in a PE-2 you are basically a target, it is easy to get shot down, the only chance you got in it is defense gunnery. As easy the planes catch fire it is only fair it is easier to protect yourself

Well, Pe-2's were known to catch fire easily.

 

That being said, as a Pe-2 pilot you have several options at your disposal to deal with the threat of enemy fighters:

 

1. Go fast. Take less fuel than you would in a fighter. If posible take only internal bomb load. Get your speed up above 500km/h TAS to take away your enemys ability to pounce on you.

 

2. Unlock and equip the blister turret in order to get maximum field of fire and a gun that can kill a German fighter with a single, short burst in the cowling.

 

3. Conserve ammo. Don't let the AI shoot, get a human gunner or do it yourself. Go only for the kill shot when you have him right where you want him. One 109 going down in flames will discourage further attacks better than spray-and-pray at long distance.

 

4. Go high but not too high. On an air quake server start from the farthest posible field, preferably with air start and get up to just above 4000 but low enough that you don't start to create contrails and draw attention to yourself. Let the bogies try to catch you from below if they want.

 

5. Use the ventral gun as a sniper rifle. Contrary to the dorsal gun, use this at longer range to snipe the fighters trying to sneak up below with little or no speed advantage.

 

As an IL-2 pilot, you have 2 options:

 

1. Get a good gunner and pray the bandits attack from behind.

 

2. Twist and turn like mad and hope he misses 95% of the shots and your plane soaks the rest.

Edited by Finkeren

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Flying online in a PE-2 you are basically a target, it is easy to get shot down, the only chance you got in it is defense gunnery. As easy the planes catch fire it is only fair it is easier to protect yourself

 

yeah, that's because most people are lawnmowing with it, and down on the ground you are easy prey with every aircraft. Try flying at 5-6k, how it's properly done, and you will notice, that it's way more likely to survive (still way under 50% of course, like it should be).

But a huge problem is, that the AI gunners don't hit anything, as soon as you try evasive manouvers, that's of course a pitty, and a mechanic, which the devs apperently are not capable of fixing right now. (at least some guys told me, that the same problem persists in RoF) So take a human gunner, and your odds won't be too bad. I sometimes go into the (blister turret) gunners position of a friends Pe2, and i got quite some kills there. The one's who stay slow at 6 o'clock are pretty easy prey. The ones who do it right are close to impossible to kill (like it should be).

I think beside the AI gunners in human controlled planes, which hopefully gets fixed sometime, everything is all right

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Doing a little better.  However today I was nailed by a shot where both of us where maneuvering like crazy, he (the Pe-2) was turning and twisting and I was turning into him from underneath.  I was hit and killed.  Couldn't believe it, crazy shot.

 

Slugging through the campaign and with CTD's, and such it's a real pain in the butt.  I really want to like this game but it's making it real hard to.  Wish there were better online options.

 

Also, tried to set up a quick mission to practice taking out Pe-2's but they fly much different.  Maybe because I can't give the AI bombs because they are not unlocked yet.

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I don't know what level you are currently, but i would advice you to do the intercept/fighter missions first, and when you unlocked all the stuff for the fighers, do the ground attacker stuff. Because the higher your rank is, the better the AI turrets etc. are getting. In the beginning i had no problem at all, but today (Lvl 8) i got my engine from the Lagg killed twice, i feel definitely a huge difference compared to the beginning. 

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Almost at level 4, just a few points short.  All I've been flying is the 109F4 and intercept missions.  I have no desire to fly bombers.

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Doing a little better.  However today I was nailed by a shot where both of us where maneuvering like crazy, he (the Pe-2) was turning and twisting and I was turning into him from underneath.  I was hit and killed.  Couldn't believe it, crazy shot.

 

Slugging through the campaign and with CTD's, and such it's a real pain in the butt.  I really want to like this game but it's making it real hard to.  Wish there were better online options.

 

Also, tried to set up a quick mission to practice taking out Pe-2's but they fly much different.  Maybe because I can't give the AI bombs because they are not unlocked yet.

 

 

It sounds like the ventral gunner got you.  As others have noted, you must avoid like the plague situations where you find yourself  sitting behind an enemy bomber.  Most particularly, avoid situations where you're sitting behind an enemy bomber, at or near the same speed as that bomber.  High speed, high angle attacks, from well above or below the enemy are necessary if you expect to survive.  You want to fly 'through your target' rather than linger in close proximity to it.  Speed is life as the old saying goes.  And remember, your Revi is both a sight and a rangefinder.  So, when you select a convergence range for your weapons, work out the relationship between the enemy aircraft (bombers and fighters) and the sight reticule at your selected range (something like 200-300 m is probably best).   If you are doing things correctly you will have maybe a second or so to shoot, at most, so practice all of this stuff. Practice, practice practice.  And if the shot goes bad, which they often do, re-set and repeat - do not be tempted to get into a slow speed slugging-match with the enemy airgunners.

 

And have a good look at Indiaciki's training film.  It tells you all you need to know. 

Edited by Wulf

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The main problem with flying Pe-2s and He-111's online is simply numbers and escorts.  You don't fly with enough fellow bombers to provide lots of fire...and you almost never have a proper dedicated escort.  This is all understandable, but it really does make bombing in MP suicidal.

 

Doesn't stop me from doing it.  I do hope future servers/maps include slightly more remote fields though.  Some of the maps created put even the bomber airfields a little too close so you have to do some clever maneuvering to get a loaded bomber up to a reasonable altitude.

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Doing a little better.  However today I was nailed by a shot where both of us where maneuvering like crazy, he (the Pe-2) was turning and twisting and I was turning into him from underneath.  I was hit and killed.  Couldn't believe it, crazy shot.

 

Slugging through the campaign and with CTD's, and such it's a real pain in the butt.  I really want to like this game but it's making it real hard to.  Wish there were better online options.

 

Also, tried to set up a quick mission to practice taking out Pe-2's but they fly much different.  Maybe because I can't give the AI bombs because they are not unlocked yet.

There is one golden rule I "live by" when attacking bombers...

 

I always try to much faster than they are flying.

 

By saying much I mean like couple of hundred km/h's more! If possible of course.

 

I really "mastered" my job back in old IL-2... gunners were even more zealous and sniper oriented I would add.

So one had to have some good working tactic to kill big birds.

 

Long story short...

 

Go.Fast.

Avoid attacks from below, always attack from above.

Hit  :biggrin: .

The main problem with flying Pe-2s and He-111's online is simply numbers and escorts.  You don't fly with enough fellow bombers to provide lots of fire...and you almost never have a proper dedicated escort.  This is all understandable, but it really does make bombing in MP suicidal.

 

Doesn't stop me from doing it.  I do hope future servers/maps include slightly more remote fields though.  Some of the maps created put even the bomber airfields a little too close so you have to do some clever maneuvering to get a loaded bomber up to a reasonable altitude.

Still haven't really gone online... don't have much time to get involved seriously.

 

But I gotta say one thing... if this MP turns out to be same thing as old IL-2 MP on average, then I'm as good there as I'm now in SP.

Even SP can arguably provide more realism than such MP.

 

I'm saying that because in old times you gotta have some really nice and serious squad to fly with otherwise you were doomed to lone wolfing without proper win-map tactics etc.

 

However it was good if you wanted to sharpen your skills, but not good at all for some serious realism and historical credibility/background. Regardless of server.

 

COOP's were the thing, but were never really popular.

Wonder why.

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The main problem with flying Pe-2s and He-111's online is simply numbers and escorts.  You don't fly with enough fellow bombers to provide lots of fire...and you almost never have a proper dedicated escort.  This is all understandable, but it really does make bombing in MP suicidal.

 

Doesn't stop me from doing it.  I do hope future servers/maps include slightly more remote fields though.  Some of the maps created put even the bomber airfields a little too close so you have to do some clever maneuvering to get a loaded bomber up to a reasonable altitude.

 

True, it is near suicidal flying tactical bombers in MP but this is hardly much worse than the reality.   Tactical bombers simply have no chance against a well organized fighter defence.  And of course, in many if not most instances during the early part of the War, escorts were not provided at all or, for various reasons, failed to locate the bombers they were tasked to defend.  And while it is also true that bombers were intended to support one another, in reality the air discipline necessary to do this effectively often broke down once the shooting started.    Being posted to a tactical bomber squadron was for all intents and purposes a death sentence. 

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I fully agree with you, it just makes it even worse. :biggrin:

 

My buddy and I still enjoy bombers, and if anyone else picks it up, we'll encourage them to fly with us.  As I've mentioned before my joy comes more from the sim and the technical challenges of piloting/navigation etc.  So adding dropping bombs to that helps.  Sure it's suicidal but you also feel even more bad ass when you make it back to land.

 

The fortunate off-shoot for everyone else is that some idiots like myself will fly bombers/dive bombers in multiplayer maps.  It at least mixes it up for everyone else.  I know people must tire of constant airfield-vulture-dogfights in a huge furball.  So the idea of some silly folks flying a flight of He-111's into the area at least gives the dogfighters a change of pace (and easy kills).  Besides, if I manage to drop a 2500 kg bomb onto you as you're taxi-ing --- that's not vulture behavior, it's "strategic". :P

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I fully agree with you, it just makes it even worse. :biggrin:

 

My buddy and I still enjoy bombers, and if anyone else picks it up, we'll encourage them to fly with us.  As I've mentioned before my joy comes more from the sim and the technical challenges of piloting/navigation etc.  So adding dropping bombs to that helps.  Sure it's suicidal but you also feel even more bad ass when you make it back to land.

 

The fortunate off-shoot for everyone else is that some idiots like myself will fly bombers/dive bombers in multiplayer maps.  It at least mixes it up for everyone else.  I know people must tire of constant airfield-vulture-dogfights in a huge furball.  So the idea of some silly folks flying a flight of He-111's into the area at least gives the dogfighters a change of pace (and easy kills).  Besides, if I manage to drop a 2500 kg bomb onto you as you're taxi-ing --- that's not vulture behavior, it's "strategic". :P

Yeah we fly bombers in wargrounds, and make it a challenge for the fighters to get us. IF we get bombs on target we still win, even if they kill us. Their job is to stop us not furball. If we kill all your targets we win.  :biggrin: We do come back sometimes but an on line bomber with no escorts from any fighter group..you got a 90% chance of going down. But its fun to get there and blow some stuff up!

Stay high on a bomber dive in, slash and pass, we hate that. OH but we hate it more when you park on our 6 and just fly level too. :P

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Excellent vid Indiaciki, thanks! Knocked out two bombers last mission without a hit on my plane.  Heck, haven't come close to making these attacks very good yet.

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