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Jason_Williams

Discussion about DCS:WW2 goes here.

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I have very little interest in flying the bombers of any nation. As Josh Echo says, it's like driving a bus.

If the sim will be as realistic as is suggested, flying in formation would be anything but routine. Still if the gunner positions are to be manned, then I would love to fly top and bottom turret online once in a while. That would be quite a challenge.

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While there would a few that would absolutley love this. It would fall flat on its face financially. Looks lime this thing is well on its way to funded city! I'd be interested to see if some if the hard core p-51 squads move from 1946 to this. As they might finally have some actual missions to accomplish.

I think your right there.

 

Over the last few days I've been getting into the P51 and going through the training exercises. Maybe, just maybe, in a year or twos time I might feel proficient enough to actually do some combat missions.

 

At the moment the P51 is a bit like a fish out of water in the DCS environment. If the project delivers period map, objects and advereraries it has the possibility to really shine. I recon that those guys that have been in it from the start will be set up to dominate the MP (for the first few months at least).

 

Personally, what I'm hoping will be delivered when EDGE is introduced is a less sterile environment in the DCS world.

Edited by Skoshi_Tiger

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New updated pledges available - getting very very good!

 

 

Project Update #2: Stretch Goals and Rewards Updated

Posted by Ilya Shevchenko

 

Hello everyone,

Due to popular demand, we've made quite a few changes to the project!

First and foremost, we've moved the flyable B-17 to the very first stretch goal. No other aircraft was met with more excitement, and we realized that we ourselves had always wanted to fly the Fort more than any other.

We also added an update to the Normandy map to the same goal. The map, as it is currently, has its north edge through the Channel, and covers the area roughly between Cherbourg, Le Havre, and Argentan. This is acceptable for a project with flyable fighters, but a flyable B-17 clearly needs more room. So, the very first stretch goal will also stretch the Normandy map all the way up to almost touch London. 

However, Southern England in that stretch goal will be less detailed than Normandy. It will have fewer historical airfields done to unique specifications, and will also have fewer unique buildings, textures, etc. In short, it will be terrain designed for take-offs and mid- to high-altitude cruise, not for tree-top dogfights or ground attack.

Unfortunately, we could not do much to decrease the cost of the next stretch goal. A flyable B-17 is a huge task, and so is building Southern England. It is, perhaps, even more work than the original $375K stretch goal. We considered adding intermediate stretch goals, such as having a B-17 with only one flyable position, or not extending the map, but eventually decided that it would just create an inferior product.

Let's really try to get to that $375 stretch goal, because a flyable B-17 done to DCS P-51 quality will really be something ground-breaking.

Secondly, we'vealso done quite a bit to backer rewards. Our artist almost went insane trying to create all the badges and arrange them to accompany new or updated rewards, and then we ran into a hard size limit on the article. We've had to remove quite a bit of other text to fit the rewards, and we can't fit any more images into the text. So, the artist is now extremely mad. Yes, I should have checked the size limit before doing all the work on the images.

Most importantly, we've added several extremely exciting new options. 

We are giving you the option of receiving twice the initial plane set in order to share with friends.

We are also adding DCS World licenses to kickstarter rewards. You will receive the P-51D and the FW.190D with DCS WWII; but if you select the appropriate reward, you will also receive those licenses for DCS World. The P-51D license will be issued after the kickstarter project successfully funds. The Dora license will give the backers the option to beta test the aircraft once it enters closed beta some time this winter.

Finally, with some reservations, we are also offering alpha access to DCS WWII. This ALPHA version will not contain all features; some content will be half-finished, and some not included at all. The version however WILL contain a large number of bugs. Please think twice before choosing this reward tier. If you are easily frustrated by missing or broken features, or expect perfection at every turn, please wait until the project is officially released.

Anyway, now that we have tons and tons of rewards with overlapping and criss-crossing items, we find that some of them may almost be impossible to figure out. So we've created this simple attached matrix, which hopefully covers all the bases.

If you have already backed the project, you can change your reward tier any time until it ends on October 5th. If you see a more attractive option, please by all means modify your pledge!

Finally, if you've backed the project at a few intermediate levels, you may have noticed a discrepancy where the reward text in the sidebar stated one thing, but the text in the main body stated something else. We've fixed any rewards we can, and retired any rewards with erroneous texts.

There is no option to edit reward descriptions if it's already been selected. However, if you've backed the project at any of the erroneous levels, you will receive BOTH the rewards in the sidebar and in the main body. We feel it's fair in hindsight; however we are not keeping the dual rewards for the future because this really increases our expenses.

Since we cannot edit existing reward texts, here's what you will receive if you have pledged at a retired reward tier.

$50 - Everything at the $40 level, plus a custom-designed project backer T-shirt, plus a spiral-bound copy of a complete aircraft manual for the plane of your choice.

$75 - Everything at the $50 level, plus a spiral-bound copy of a complete aircraft manual for the plane of your choice, and a hard copy of the game’s air combat strategy and tactics manual.

$100 - Everything at the $50 level, plus a hard copy of the game’s air combat strategy and tactics manual, and spiral-bound copies of complete aircraft manuals for two flyable aircraft in the game.

Important Note: Apparently it's impossible to close out a reward. I can mark it as sold out, but if a backer changes his or her pledge from a sold out one to a different one, it opens up a slot in the sold out reward. 

If you see a reward marked as Limited with a very low number of available items left, please do not select it. It's one of the older incorrect description ones. 

  •  

Care to comment? View this update on Kickstarter →

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Get the Kickstarter app for iPhone.

 

 

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Eh, mid-campaign he suddenly restructures the whole deal?

ok. stability might not be a keyword here.

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You can't please everyone, and the way I see it they were listening to customer requests. Flexibility is in this case far more important than it is to stick to a once made plan for the sake of it, however poor the plan might have been.

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Changing things around was a good idea, and has made the project look better. Don't forget even BoS changed the plan for two of the planes after feedback.

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Backers inspired change is good.

 

"No battle plan ever survived first contact with the enemy" (Sun Tzu).

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I'd rather a developer listen to feedback and make changes to their plans if they feel its warranted rather than a developer who just blindly stuck to their plan and didn't listen. The presentation isn't slick but then these guys are not operating with a big budget, what they have I'd rather be spent on the development of the game than some slick YouTube video of Luthier blue-screened into the game, to be honest although I am really excited by Star Citizen I found that kick starter video of Chris Roberts sat in the cockpit of one of the space ships a bit gimmicky.

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It's good that they are extending the map. It was way too small. Now you can create a lot more scenarios/missions.

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I can`t help but think this is diverting attention away from the main aim of this forum which is to promote BoS. BoS will be flyable from Oct, has a known list of aircraft, we`ve seen and had hands on experience of the product (some of us), we get regular video updates from a team that answers questions even if we don`t like the answer, and a gaffer that appears on the forum and TS regularly. Perhaps money in BoS`s direction is the better buy and more effort promoting BoS should be undertaken.

 

DCS will reach it`s 100k goal no doubt, beyond that I very much doubt it, I`ll leave my pledge as it is based upon my take on things. However I`ll be playing BoS in Oct for sure, and probably still be waiting for anything solid to be shown from DCS WW2.

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So, by the time they design and print the t-shirt, write and arrange the books and print those too, then package them by the hundreds or thousands and post them to their destinations - there's going to be feck all left of those $40 and $50 donations to make it worthwhile. That is an epic disaster just waiting to happen.

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It would be understandable if 777 stopped discussion but they appear to be ok with it in the confines of this thread in the off topic forum. I'm just as keen to get my hands on BoS which is why I've got it on pre-order. I don't doubt their ability to deliver a great sim as I've enjoyed RoF for many years and bought all the aircraft - something ill likely end up doing with BoS. My participation in this thread is purely as a flight sim fan excited at the prospect of having two sims on the market covering my favourite period of air combat.

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Well, many people have promoted the hell out of ROF on plenty other forums so I see no problem here.

  • Upvote 2

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Exactly. I doubt 777 are worried about it, it will appeal to a much smaller percentage of the market, even if they are, roughly the same market.

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I want both as well Revvin, my concern for the DCS product is they appear to have a frontman who cannot provide a single image of anything they have done apart from two shots of the 190 pit (which looks very nice), there`s a post on the DCS forum from a guy visiting an airshow who offered to distribute leaflets on his own time for free to get word out to the wider community, ED sent him material and he distributed 500 IIRC flyers, Luthier didn`t reply.

 

A mass of people are asking for evidence of work done, why no response, it`s baffling. If I was to up my pledge I first want to see evidence of work being done not fantastic statements of things to come but solid evidence of things being done. Good luck to both, it would be nice if both products supporters could financially support both ventures in a show of solidarity, hopefully that day will come, the future`s rosy if things are handled properly and professionally.

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Well Luthier has never been a great salesman. I put my money in on trust, due to all the fun I have had with their products over the years, over ten years with il2, and even CoD, which has given me hundreds of hours of entertainment for my initial $50.

Will everything be perfect? No, its isn't in RoF either, and it won't be here, but that doesn't stop me putting my money in and backing any new flight sim.

I don't really care who makes something, if I want it, I will buy it and support it.

Edited by JG4_Uther
  • Upvote 4

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Well Luthier has never been a great salesman. I put my money in on trust, due to all the fun I have had with their products over the years, over ten years with il2, and even CoD, which has given me hundreds of hours of entertainment for my initial $50.

Will everything be perfect? No, its isn't in RoF either, and it won't be here, but that doesn't stop me putting my money in and backing any new flight sim.

I don't really care who makes something, if I want it, I will buy it and support it.

Good point. A man`s gotta get up after he fails. Some folks talk like they never failed at anything in their life.

  • Upvote 1

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Well Luthier has never been a great salesman. I put my money in on trust, due to all the fun I have had with their products over the years, over ten years with il2, and even CoD, which has given me hundreds of hours of entertainment for my initial $50.

Will everything be perfect? No, its isn't in RoF either, and it won't be here, but that doesn't stop me putting my money in and backing any new flight sim.

I don't really care who makes something, if I want it, I will buy it and support it.

 

My thoughts entirely, although I'd much rather certain people made something rather than others if I was given a preference. :)

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I can`t help but think this is diverting attention away from the main aim of this forum which is to promote BoS.

I think this forum will make a dramatic shift in the BoS direction and away from DCS, as soon as BoS gets released (that alpha or beta or whatever) and after this kickstarter is over.

 

Meanwhile, i'm curious what other changes Luthier will make to the program and i'll make my decision on how much i'll pledge at the very end.

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Tweaking things and adding rewards in response to backer comments is just the right thing to do, many KS campaigns do it, Star Citizen did it. Unfortunately the new rewards are extremely confusing.

 

$375k looks a long way off, only 30 backers so far today. Cash pledged is up as people tweak their pledges to fit the new rewards.

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I can`t help but think this is diverting attention away from the main aim of this forum which is to promote BoS. BoS will be flyable from Oct, has a known list of aircraft, we`ve seen and had hands on experience of the product (some of us), we get regular video updates from a team that answers questions even if we don`t like the answer, and a gaffer that appears on the forum and TS regularly. Perhaps money in BoS`s direction is the better buy and more effort promoting BoS should be undertaken.

 

Not at all... the devs here have made sure that regardless to what "other" topics are discussed here .. this IS the BoS forum. They have consistantly and definitively promoted this product from day one and have actually laid out an almost textbook example of how to promote a new product in the gaming world. A year ago this sim was just a wish in the minds of most simmers wishing that RoF would move to WWII. All the gold and silver bars around here tell the tale.

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Not at all... the devs here have made sure that regardless to what "other" topics are discussed here .. this IS the BoS forum. They have consistently and definitively promoted this product from day one and have actually laid out an almost textbook example of how to promote a new product in the gaming world. A year ago this sim was just a wish in the minds of most simmers wishing that RoF would move to WWII. All the gold and silver bars around here tell the tale.

 

I'll drink to that. The way this thread is developing, without too much animosity for each other's champions, is examplatory.

Edited by Jochen

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There`s no dig at the devs in there at all are you seriously questioning my admiration for the way that this game has developed due entirely to the fantastic way it`s been conducted by the devs???, just pointing out that this topic has had 380 posts in a week far more than any other in the BoS forum.

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Its the current hot topic, when BoS arrives and the Kickstarter has finished people will be busy talking about BoS and how great it is or how the rivet count on the 109's canopy is wrong or that the Lagg climbs at 0.00000000001 of a second too fast as is the way with flight sim fans :)

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Revvin did you used to play on the Uk_Dedicated 3 server, I used to play regularly with a welsh player whose name completely eludes me atm,

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There`s no dig at the devs in there at all are you seriously questioning my admiration for the way that this game has developed due entirely to the fantastic way it`s been conducted by the devs???, just pointing out that this topic has had 380 posts in a week far more than any other in the BoS forum.

 

No not at all... Please don't take my post that way it was not intended that way. It was just a statement in response to your quoted post. That is all. Perhaps I should have put a ;) at the end or something.. :salute:

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I do admire Jason allowing this topic. I think it shows the confidence they have in BoS. I hope the DSC sim works out as it is my favorite WWII theater. I'm really enjoying cruising around in the P-51 too. I'm still up in the air as to whether I want to add my support BUT if I do it sure isn't going to diminish my enthusiasm for BoS. I'll likely have many many hours of stick time in it before the other sim even comes out.

 

I still don't get the us and them attitudes of some of you. All the more reason to hope DSC is successful as hopefully you can then migrate to whatever forum is it's home. I promise I won't come over and rain on your parade.

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Oleg only has a toe in. The fireside piece to camera seemed to suggest that he was being very cautious and did not want to be tied to the project too closely.

 

Yeah I noticed that as well, and while speaking of all his experience, not one time was " Cliffs of Dover" ever mentioned. Actually, I think the same holds true of Luthier as well.

Hope there are not say non competes that might come into play and tangle things up...

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New update posted.

 

Nice video about EDGE graphics engine and EDGE team:

 

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/508681281/dcs-wwii-europe-1944/posts

 

And congrats to the 1000 backers!

 

I like all sims. I don't understand why people get so partisan with things they are used to and attack things are not used to.

 

Things like type of game, type of simulator, development team, side (axis/allies), favorite aircraft, preferred mission, flying style, time period...... 

 

Can't we just be happy with what we play? The more sims the better. I didn't try one that I didn't enjoyed in some respect.

I wish people would just enjoy life as it is without getting aggravated by what others do, like or play.

 

F-8.jpg

 

 

 

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shot_20120109_131205.jpg

 

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2011_2_23__5_24_32.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

Guess what. they didn't eat each other on my computer and I had tons of fun with all of them and a lot more.

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Not sure why people are baffled by the lack of content being shown by DCSWW2, the whole of point of Kickstarter is to help finance the making of content.  You can't have one before the other.  They do have some financing, and they are currently working on aircraft, content, and the map, but hardly enough to hang their hat on at this point.  The Point du Hoc work was rudimentary at best.  Although I was impressed with their thoughts on the new EDGE graphic engine expressed in their latest video.   It would have been nice to see screenshots of the maps EDGE has already created, but apparently they weren't allowed.   It may have been because those maps were built for the military.

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Still, I find it odd that there is not even a generic map flyover that can be shown. How are they marketing their capabilities to their commercial customers (- sorry, we can't show you, but please order from us...)? Supposedly the engine is already in it's fourth generation...

 

:unsure:

 

MAC

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Presume it's just not at that stage yet as they're working on core map functionality and not integrating it with planes just yet. We didn't see any BOS planes doing any sort of a flyover of any terrain until quite recently. Previous versions of the IG might not have been for DCS so the fact that it's on its 4th version may not be all that relevant other than as a technology it's not brand spanking new and full of bugs as a result.

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Anyone who has a real interest in flight simulators should take a punt on this...for goodness sake, you can pledge as little as one buck!

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Let's limit our discussion of CoD in this thread please. By now everyone knows how it was and most of us know how it is now so we need to keep this discussion on DCS WW II. The downside of CoD has been beaten to death we need to get over it.

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