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Unlock Modifications is a boring process to be honest...


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The thing I do not understand is why all of this people cannot play in MP with basic planes?! This planes are not better or worse than the planes with the “unlock” or do they need the Wonder guns the pilots could not have in real live?! Or the paint on their airplanes personalized given only to the best of the best!

 

Why such a hate against something that is created to reproduce the facts of live we all do not get immediately what we want when we want it!  :blink: 

it is very simple. just becouse it is boring to see own green wings in that white enviroment, becouse you cant mount a bomb and destroy tank? and i think same for rest of unlocked items, it is about customer feeling not about what is better in battle, i dont play for statistics i play for fun and unlocking in singleplayer against AI in 21. centoury definitely has nothing to do with fun for multiplayer customers

 

 

most important than boring feelings are irritatings ,

if somebody telling you that you must "play" (dictionary telling someting related to fun) and WASTE time on something like Single Player and reading on this forum telling that it is mostly boring, guys had to play faster on 2x time compression and spending 40hours, omg omg.

 

unlocking is totaly misstep in multiplayer . SLAVERY should be only in free2play games , not if you pay 100usd ....

 

and if i mention:

-no multiscreen support, native even nvidia surround doesnt work - from what i have seen very simple bugfix about camera - still you have time for rubbish like unlocking instead real things ( all current and older sim/arcade games supports 3 screens, why il2-not???)

-Joystick filtering is still not been fixed, still filtering trackir (slowering moting) 

..bla bla bla

 

and btw. somebody with not only blondie icon wrote, that SP leveling up newbies and after that all guys are ready for great MP. thats why it is forced...hmmm so why i can see totaly unlocked plane and its pilot is unable to taxi . hmm. ? see ? no reasons to force people waste time there in singleplayer. only one reason remains, devels just want that ppl play SP. it is like "we did it, you must play it" .

 

isnt it very simple?,

if i want tutorial, i run tutorial

if i get feeling that i must learn how to fly i will try some singleplayer or some training server

if i want to be blind and easy target i will jump stright to the fullserver and i will try how deep watter there is, maybe i will learn swimming faster than in pool with air rings

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I am not enjoying the campaign to be honest , just today , i flew a bombing mission in the 109 , hit three targets and one AAA mission success , landed at airfield . game crashed to desktop . No points .Not having a good day , so this is how it going to be . A state of the art 2014  flight Sim in WWII one of the bloodiest battles on planet earth and we have  XP points ... and unlocks ...and ctd and i have to re-fly the same mission ...again ...LOL.

i have decided i will not back anymore projects after this one . three weeks ago i was so looking forward to the campaign . and a pilot career just like ROF  and some history . That history has been washed away .

Edited by II./JG77_Con
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When this unlock system came out I took one look at it and shut the game down.  I had no idea this is what the developers were going to do and I admit---Not very happy with it.

 

I'm back again to look at it because I really would like to play this game but on my own terms.  Further review shows this ain't going to happen!!!!  I haven't figured out how to play this system yet but there are planes I have no interest in flying and possibly missions I'm not interested in.  Maybe unlocks would be ok for mp but not sp.  Maybe I will change my mind as I plug along.  Good luck all.

 

Just needed to add my two cents worth.

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It is of interest that supposedly "hard core" (whatever that means) simmers really don't want realism. They want instant, more or less, gratification. Minor disappointments result in infantile rants, and the bizarre reaction that you see on gamer critique sites. I guess it gives people a moment in which to be important.

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You don't get it, Victory. There are actually people who want to fly MP and who simply have no interest in SP. Period.

A stunning revelation, wouldn't you say?

And yet valid opinion, wouldn't you say?

 

And yet they're forced through this sorry mess of a "campaign" mechanic regardless if they actually want to get all the features they paid for.

 

Anyway:

I have mostly resigned to the idea of having to suffer through it for a while to get everything out of it and then never touch it again. As described above by Afwastus.

 

But it's the little things that really, reeeeally reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally get to me.

Why would I ever do a proper landing? It will double the mission time thanks to the lack of time acceleration and there's the risk of losing either all progress or getting only half the points.

But that right there is it. Time acceleration, or the lack thereof.

After all why is it that - after having finished my objectives and being on my way home to the incredibly immersive yellow Exit Point message painted into the sky by some divine being - I have to sit there and watch the landscape go past at bloody x2 acceleration? NOTHING will happen, NOTHING!

So why do I have to do it that way? What purpose does it serve to force me to trudge sullenly along my way to god's immersive message to mankind for multiple times as long as it could (and should) be?

 

 

Taking away the x16 feels like it was nothing but a bitch-slap to those who do not enjoy the campaign and just want it over with. It's incredibly petty.

And if there was a technical reason for doing so, please, for the love of god, tell us.

 

 

 

 

Oh why do I even bother...

Can't wait for senseispcc, Dakpilot, Rama or whoever else to explain to me why it's a good thing having to do this.  :dry:

Edited by [JG2]G3_wellenbrecher
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It is of interest that supposedly "hard core" (whatever that means) simmers really don't want realism. They want instant, more or less, gratification. Minor disappointments result in infantile rants, and the bizarre reaction that you see on gamer critique sites. I guess it gives people a moment in which to be important.

 

Please stop trying to make this into an "us" vs. "them" argument, it's getting old. I understand it is tempting to try and belittle people for voicing dissenting opinions and certainly I can see the temptation in using in-group/out-group dynamics to your advantage but it is a dishonest way of debating.

 

As the hilariously skewed poll in the poll section shows, it's not a case of "hardcore" vs. "easy going", "single players" vs. "multiplayers", "simmers" vs. "action gamers", etc.

Edited by Afwastus
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Actually you can play without unlocks in MP. If you want a bomb on your fighter you do not have top go very deep into the SP campaign. If you want to use special stuff you have to go deeper into campaign.

All this XP grinding in single player is time consuming and just annoying to everyone, who likes flying online with other people.

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S!

 

The Grind is over!

 

qxNIG0W.jpg

 

 

Pro Tip: Grind attackers first, otherwise you will hit level 10 before you maxed them and face AAA with incredible accuracy. I had about 2 "Mission accomplished" every 3 sorties. In my IL-2 on Level 10 it was about 1 "Mission accomplished" every 5-7 sorties. Just going close to AAA was dangerous, making a second pass on tanks close to AAA emplacements was suicide. Enjoying planes like the Stuka with 3.7 cm cannons has become impossible in Campaign mode.

 

Zettman

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Please stop trying to make this into an "us" vs. "them" argument, it's getting old. I understand it is tempting to try and belittle people for voicing dissenting opinions and certainly I can see the temptation in using in-group/out-group dynamics to your advantage but it is a dishonest way of debating.

 

As the hilariously skewed poll in the poll section shows, it's not a case of "hardcore" vs. "easy going", "single players" vs. "multiplayers", "simmers" vs. "action gamers", etc.

 

I don't like some things about the sim either, but I sure as hell am not going to voice it around here.

 

It's not us vs them, it's a childish mindset that wants everything on a platter. There are some guys here that didn't like the format of the game that simply jumped in and unlocked everything by flying the missions. No whining, they just got it done. If you want your precious little bombs or skins or whatever for multiplayer I suggest you man up and do the same.

 

It is attitude of immature, impatient video gamers that is old. The evidence is all over the pages of the forum. 

 

And whomever said that I don't get it is correct. Much of the rhetoric over minor issues is beyond me.

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And whomever said that I don't get it is correct.

 

 

Then why exactly are you offering opinions on the validity of people's complaints?

 

 

I don't like some things about the sim either, but I sure as hell am not going to voice it around here.

 

It's not us vs them, it's a childish mindset that wants everything on a platter. There are some guys here that didn't like the format of the game that simply jumped in and unlocked everything by flying the missions. No whining, they just got it done. If you want your precious little bombs or skins or whatever for multiplayer I suggest you man up and do the same.

 

How does not openly discussing problems with the game or expressing discontent help anything? Do the developers suddenly learn how the community feels about a feature in the game if no one posts about it?

 

Some of us have actually unlocked stuff, played the single player campaign/multiplayer/QMB and are now posting how we felt said time spent ingame was. Which again, has very little to do with an expectation of "instant action" or "having everything handed to them on a silver platter."

 

However, props on the attitude comrade! Belittle, insult and tell people to "deal with it"; such a positive environment for discussion will definitely make people love the game! I only wish that you would make some joke suggesting that only homosexuals hate unlocks or that only losers would complain about the game.

Edited by Afwastus
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I was under the impression once you got to the end of the campaign in any plane that was it for the locks .Just the idea of having to go through all those campaigns again and again snd sgin snd sgsin etc is very offputting .At least sfter the sctual "action zone " is over , make the flight home about 5 km , NOT 80 .What's the point in such long travelling times ? To show realism ? Is it realistic to have giant symbols floating in the air ?

Edited by 6969pencon
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I don't like some things about the sim either, but I sure as hell am not going to voice it around here.

 

It's not us vs them, it's a childish mindset that wants everything on a platter. There are some guys here that didn't like the format of the game that simply jumped in and unlocked everything by flying the missions. No whining, they just got it done. If you want your precious little bombs or skins or whatever for multiplayer I suggest you man up and do the same.

In part, you have a point. People who signed up for the early access took the risk of taking the package with all of the good or bad sides.

 

Other than that, a potential buyer will not "man up" as you describe it. He will check the features the game has, both good and bad, notice the grinding that limits content and decide not to buy the game.

 

I think you`d agree with me that If the devs want to be honest, and the community wants to be honest, by all means the potential buyer should be able to verify what he`s interested in and then make a decision of his own.

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I agree with Victory205 that it's more the manner that people try to put across their point that is the problem. Repeatedly, we have had multiple threads with people making threats to walk away, taking with them everyone who's ever even thought about buying BoS. How many more ways can some of you complain? And it's basically the same bunch over and over. I think everyone gets it. The flippin' game has been out a few days. Do you really expect it to be completely redone overnight? Walk away for a while. Or fly it like it is until something changes. But honestly, quit stomping your feet and holding your breath like a three year old. I can't see that causing anyone with the power to make changes to take anyone seriously. 

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Actually you can play without unlocks in MP. If you want a bomb on your fighter you do not have top go very deep into the SP campaign. If you want to use special stuff you have to go deeper into campaign.

All this XP grinding in single player is time consuming and just annoying to everyone, who likes flying online with other people.

Maybe someone should spawn a thread listing all of the features available right-out-of-the-box and all of the unlocks.

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I think it's very important to critique where critiquing is necessary.  I agree a handful of people here have really immature ways of going about it.  For the most part, it's been very simple, critical and relatively ignored.

 

The sim community is very different from the usual pre-teen-angst crowd of gamers in other areas.  Everyone knew they were taking a chance buying into an early access program.  However, flight simmers have understandable expectations based on plenty of previous games (from various manufacturers).

 

"Just get on with it..." is not an acceptable idea when you're asking a customer to put in 30-60 hours of mind-numbing tedium just to access basic fundamental features of a game.  This is not a "you must play these three tutorial missions before you can play the game." kind of thing.  It's a real time investment in a game in which we've already made a pretty decent financial investment.

 

I'm running BoS at 2x Auto in the background as a type this - been doing it whenever I have free time, and I'll never unlock all the planes at this rate.  Heck I don't even have the time to do so when I'm not even flyin' the plane.  I'll never get my buddies to even do this bit, so if things remain as they are ---- why would I bother trying to build missions when the editor comes out?  Where I might think it'd be cool to make a mission around a Hungarian 109 squadron carrying out light bomb attacks against a Russian armored advance....that'll never happen unless all my buddies all unlock the planes/bombs necessary.

 

It puts a silly limit on players enjoyment of the game...and absolutely KILLS the custom mission creation if you're interested in creating any specific objectives.  I enjoy BoS, but arbitrary and silly decisions like this take the game from Great and put it down to Good.  If it was as open/free as RoF I'd give BoS a 10/10 right now, 5/5 stars etc.  As it sits, it's more of a "could have been great" title.  I do hope it'll change in the future but I'm not overly optimistic. 

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After campaigns were released, the extreme majority hated it.

 

Dev Response: Deal with it.   :cool:

 

Players took solace in the fact that at least you could use time compression to lessen the pain of the un-fun work.

 

Dev Response: Cut time compression down to 2x.   :cool:

 

Players then said "Well, at least the WORST missions (bomber/attack) are not so bad if you just bomb supply depots. (Edit: to clarify, the IL2 missions are actually the best... and while monotonous, they still net ~500 xp if you do well... so there is something else for you to nerf.)

 

Dev Response: Make supply depots indistinguishable from surrounding buildings, cut number of buildings down to a fraction of the norm.   :cool:

 

 

The changes seem to be purely out of spite and to ensure that the single player "gameplay" is artificially longer.

I like seeing all these changes to make the campaign even more painful while still seeing the bugs go unfixed... watching skins flash between winter and woodland camo is awesome.

Edited by [TWB]80hd
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It does rather come down to economics; IF the unlock system is generally regarded as a bad system as it stands AND many (if by no means all) would-be purchesers check this forum / Metacritic / other discussion points THEN the developers should consider changing their approach to avoid reducing revenue.

 

There are lots of good things about BoS as it stands, but at present I suspect the unlocks may be hitting their top line. It was a decision, not a fundemental part of the programme; it can be changed and I suspect many would support it being changed (to recognise MP sorties or similar). That way it could remain part of the original campaign but not hamper people who simply wanted fo use BoS their way.

 

With the adition of the server and FMB release, the core BoS programs can then begin to grow and realise all the fan and development-based effort that Il-2, CLOD and RoF enjoyed. There is nothing shameful in listening to feedback and making a compromise and in this instance it might prove very healthy for the long-term project.

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I am assuming they just want to lease BOS for console platform in the future. If they does, unlock and xp point will be necessary, 

Maybe that is the reason that they keep this function and don't want to change even most of existing users don't like it.

Anyway, we don't know their strategy. Only time will tell which way is correct.

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Most people are expressing their frustration with the unlocks in reasonable fashion . I've noticed most folks that are pro unlock are making their points with insults to the opposing opinion - whined crybaby , spoiled child erc. . Usually when you have to resort to insults and even a couple by the developers , it's because you have no other valid points to make , and you know deep down inside you've already lost the discussion .

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I don't think that's a fair statement. Why rip someone who enjoys an aspect of the game that you (that's a general "you") don't. I'd bet six months from now we will see other options available in this sim we don't see today. And maybe the unlocks go away or are re-done to make them more palatable. It's been said many times now by the people in charge, that this sim is still a work in progress. I'm enjoying what it is and I think I'll enjoy what it becomes. I'm looking forward to a lot of good flight hours this winter.

The fact that they make you play the first missions of the campain in F*******G EASY MODE WITH ICON AND THE LOT  is the most stupid and LESS ENJOYABLE thing I have ever experience in a sim ever.

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Most people are expressing their frustration with the unlocks in reasonable fashion . I've noticed most folks that are pro unlock are making their points with insults to the opposing opinion - whined crybaby , spoiled child erc. . Usually when you have to resort to insults and even a couple by the developers , it's because you have no other valid points to make , and you know deep down inside you've already lost the discussion .

 

+1

 

No matter how unreasonable you find someone's posts or how silly you feel they are acting, no one user has a right to simply dismiss it as whining or cry babies.

 

As with any forum, if you feel someone is posting in a way that is harmful or violates the rules, report them and leave it be.

 

We all have strong opinions and a passion/interest for the game, but that doesn't mean any of us have a reason or right to start calling people who disagree with us names or try to shift the blame on them for having or expressing their opinion.

 

I mean, I dislike unlocks, but I don't go around calling anyone names if they express support for the feature nor do I attempt to suggest a personal failing as the reason why they like unlocks.

Edited by Afwastus
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The unlocks, in combination with some other things, has basically reduced my use of il2 to just checking the forums to see when those specific things change/get fixed.  Was really looking forward to this releasing but now have no interest in playing it in the current state...hope that changes.

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The unlocks, in combination with some other things, has basically reduced my use of il2 to just checking the forums to see when those specific things change/get fixed.  Was really looking forward to this releasing but now have no interest in playing it in the current state...hope that changes.

Me too. I have no interest in this.

 

Unlocks for historically correct stuff such as cannons on the fw-190 are terrible.

 

Please give back the community some control of this game. A sense of propriety was what made the original il2 series so successful.

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Most people are expressing their frustration with the unlocks in reasonable fashion . I've noticed most folks that are pro unlock are making their points with insults to the opposing opinion - whined crybaby , spoiled child erc. . Usually when you have to resort to insults and even a couple by the developers , it's because you have no other valid points to make , and you know deep down inside you've already lost the discussion .

Most??? On both sides of this argument? I doubt that and I'd love to see the proof. In numbers. I'll stand by my opinion of childish behavior by some. I'll even grant it is probably on both sides. Once again, this community threatens to devour itself. It's become something that one can almost expect whenever a new sim appears.

 

One way to solve this argument would be a mass email from the developers to those who've purchased this sim. Would it change anything? Probably not. Not in the short term anyway. So we can either learn to live with it or leave it alone. It's that simple.

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+1

 

No matter how unreasonable you find someone's posts or how silly you feel they are acting, no one user has a right to simply dismiss it as whining or cry babies.

 

As with any forum, if you feel someone is posting in a way that is harmful or violates the rules, report them and leave it be.

 

We all have strong opinions and a passion/interest for the game, but that doesn't mean any of us have a reason or right to start calling people who disagree with us names or try to shift the blame on them for having or expressing their opinion.

 

I mean, I dislike unlocks, but I don't go around calling anyone names if they express support for the feature nor do I attempt to suggest a personal failing as the reason why they like unlocks.

When people are acting like narcissistic children as we have seen here writ large, they should be described exactly as they are. There is a constructive way to proffer an opinion, and decent people have done so and helped the process. If someone resorts to foolish behavior then it is legitimate to call them on it as it is to criticize the game. It isn't name calling, it is describing the behavior truthfully.

 

The problem is that many, many people have lost perspective and don't know what adult behavior is anymore. They act out in a useless, selfish and destructive manner. It is no surprise that many gamers haven't a clue that they are doing it.

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Indeed, however, it seems far to often this vaunted "constructive criticism" is subject to just the same poor reception.

 

I find it refreshing that you hold such a high view of constructive criticism, but I must confess that I don't see your recent generalizations as supporting this opinion. "It is describing the behavior truthfully", sure, in your view, I am sure we all have different views of when criticism is productive or not but really, making broad sweeping generalizations is helping no one.

 

Do people post stupid things and go on needless rants out of annoyance/disappointment/passion/love for the game? Yes.

 

Does it help matter in anyway to make it a personal debate by calling them narcissistic children or by making broad, biased generalizations about the playerbase? No, if anything it only makes the discussions much more combative/personal around here (which again, pragmatically speaking isn't going to make people more act better or help the game/developers in any way).

 

At this point, we have to encourage a calm, collected and positive discussion on these forums and not one where there is an atmosphere of animosity among players based on some perceived factions regarding opinion of the game.

Edited by Afwastus
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i have decided i will not back anymore projects after this one . three weeks ago i was so looking forward to the campaign . and a pilot career just like ROF  and some history . That history has been washed away .

I'm of the same attitude. The decision to go through with unlocks in this manner is mystifying. If it had just been a career like ROF it would've been perfect. The potential for an intense campaign with *actual* risk vs. reward has been sadly missed out on. Utilizing the ROF style of career "Perma-death" if your pilot is KIA, you keep the mods locked only in campaign. It's a pretty simple formula: The more unlocks you have, the more you have to lose in the campaign.

 

I was going to buy Ilya Muromets, but I'm not so sure anymore.

Edited by MiG21bisFishbedL
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That was one of my main concerns with the whole idea. That it would turn folks with little time.. like me off from it. Penalizing me for having a lot on my plate.

 

 

I agree.. it is what it is for now though so I am sucking it up and doing what I have to.

 

 

Good point.. but I still want to get the whole sim so I am going through it..

 

 

I agree... even if it is an erroneous impression based on brano's post quoted above.

 

 

Probably.. but it still was a bad idea.. One of the few missteps IMO. It still does not take away from the fact that this is a good sim.

QFT. A well though out and reasonable response...the right way to critique. Bearcat standard.

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so boring that i've spent:

 

50$ on this:

 

 

50$ on this one:

 

 

10 or 20$ on sale for that:

 

 

and about 10$ for this:

 

 

and some more for this:

 

 

instead of flying the 109F. Before the unlock siystem I didn't even consider DCS... Great business strategy.

 

BTW I'll never fly the Stuka with gunpods again because I won't ever unlock them:

 

 

It was fun, though...

Edited by indiaciki
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I enjoy the game immensely and the campaign missions now have more atmosphere to them, I'm mainly a SP player anyway as time and real life interfere with MP.

 

I can understand unlocks, its there as a carrot to get people to play the campaign. In saying that I think its gone about it the wrong way, unlocks should be through progression of the campaign not due to XP etc. I've pretty much stopped playing the game at the moment because the unlocks to me now seem like a grind, a chore that coupled with the shit load of CTD's I now get which I never ever had issues with before.

 

 If the unlocks became available further along the campaign (eg. Flying the stuka, have the 37mm cannons available after operation Uranus, instead of requiring the 2500xp to get it or what ever) instead of XP based I would be more enthusiastic to the campaign.

 

Now I'm just trolling the forum for any news to unlock XP being lowered or return of higher time compression, or even FFS custom difficulty in the campaign, instead of playing the game.

 

I haunt another forum which I've been posting about this game for the last year trying to get people interested in it with my anecdotes of awesome missions, gfx, flight physics etc. I've pretty much stopped that as the Campaign although technically still really good its just the unlocks leave a sour after taste and I cant really recommend it to anyone.  

Edited by Tyberan
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So 95% of us have to suffer this rubbish for the sake of a tiny percentage of new players that 'might' get in to flying games and who knows what proportion of those would even bother with MP, who cares if new blood knows what to do on their first outing? none of us should be forced into this drudgery just to spoon feed a couple of noobs.

 

There's been many times we disagreed and even argued about our opinions on a few forums, but my friend I agree with you completely with this statement.

 

Haven't played since they introduced the unlock torture and won't play again until it stays as it is, unless you can play the unlock game in MP.

 

They might have put much efford in SP, but it is just god damn boring for me. 

It is as simple as it is. If it stays like that I won't be playing again,

I regret funding the EA project.

 

Me too, i get tempted every now and again to stick X2 and autopilot on but I cant even be arsed to do that if I'm honest.

 

 

They should follow EA and add in 'optional pay to unlock'. Pay a small fee and get all the unlocks for the plane you like. (Bad idea for customer, good idea for devs) I'm sort of enjoying the campaign because I'm so rubbish at the game I'm using it as training so I don't get clubbed in mp.

 

You will now be clubbed to death like a big chubby seal in MP for that comment.....if you can find the players to do the clubbing.

 

 

Still they CAN (well, could - if they wanted) unlock all that stuff for early access players who thought THEY were the target audience when they supported the development with their money.

 

Many suggestions have been put forward but they still dont want to be told, Pride comes before the fall. All this negativity on the forums and I'd be willing to be its the same on the russian forums. I was really looking forward to seeing this game develop but now its popcorn time, my $160 that I sank into early access has done nothing more than earn my a ringside seat to the suicide of a game, and I'm gonna force myself damn well enjoy it now.

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