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Multiplayer Dead?

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If the implementation stays the way it is right now, mission builders are limited from placing objectives that reward or punish players in terms of armament loadouts ESPECIALLY since the game kicks you from the server if you mistakenly pick a loadout you don't have. The mission I had on the Eagle's Nest had ammo depots that could be destroyed and would limit aircraft's choices of weapons and ammo...wouldn't mean much to the guy that doesn't want to and didn't bother with unlocking things in SP, since he cannot be rewarded with a shiny new cannon that he hasn't unlocked, nor can he be punished since he has the baseline weapons configuration...well I suppose I could force an "empty" loadout, but that wouldn't be much fun. I guess it's good for your team, but given the situation, you can't bank on the guy next to you also having the appropriate unlocks. This unlocks system just guts the importance of simulation of an objective and literally adds nothing--only takes away from the experience from a historical and gameplay perspective.

I hope you will be back with a Server (with some crowd founding) after this unlock "problem" is solved.

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2. Unlocks gained during alpha will be reset when game is released? Yes/No

 

I apologize, I haven't read all messages on this forum regarding last version of the game and I haven't installed the latest version due to confusion regarding unlocks. If they are here to stay for MP as well, without ability to gain them there, then I will try to keep the time wasted for unlocking on minimum and do it only once.

 

Zak response to No.2 yesterday.....There's a chance

 

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/11248-are-unlocks-now-permanent/?p=172878

 

Cheers Dakplot

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And in contrast to that we have three or four posts from the Russian forum giving a straight up "yes, it's going to be wiped".

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From what I can tell, multiplayer hasn't really been affected in Europe compared to the impact that the USA has seen.  

 

I was able to get out of work early yesterday, and flew at 4PM Eastern Time USA, and Syndicate was totally full and had a blast for about and hour or so.  By 6-7PM Eastern Time USA, the servers completely empty out and maintain ghost town status throughout the remainder of the evening. 

 

Are the USA players just not playing multiplayer in an attempt to picket the unlock system?  Yeah, I'm not ecstatic about it, but unlocks shouldn't prevent people from enjoying the quality MP experience that is enjoyed by many, several hours before most of us get home.

 

Good luck and good hunting team!

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I check the expert servers and if no one is there I try to grind out a few unlocks.  Shutting down the Eagle server + unlocks has been a disaster for US MP.

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Reading the russian forums =FB=Loft said that if the sales were successful? He would like to make a campaign-based Coop campaign co-op where players fly off or against the AI or against a mixed team or against other players but this is still fantasy. That idea sounds great for me a huge map of war. :)

Edited by Superghostboy
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Reading the russian forums =FB=Loft said that if the sales were successful? He would like to make a campaign-based Coop campaign co-op where players fly off or against the AI or against a mixed team or against other players but this is still fantasy. That idea sounds great for me. :)

 

 

 

If that happened, I'd be okay with the unlocks. I wouldn't be happy with them, but I'd be far more satisfied and appeased. This current system simply sucks.

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There is a pretty simple reason for this.  Games like this exist on the back of squadron run servers...normally servers run on their own Teamspeak channel, with their own difficulty settings, their own missions etc.  Right now you're not seeing much/any of this because of the unavailable server support.

 

My buddy and I hop on to fly around (just simple take off and landing practice) but have little interest in simple rotating dogfight servers, particularly on BoS's version of locked "Normal" difficulty etc.  There is little reason or interest to log into MP right now, particularly with Eagle's Nest gone etc.

 

When the game is released, editor is up and running you should see a change - particularly if this unlock business disappears, and if custom difficulty settings are available.  With the game very "locked down" as it is now, there is less reason for squadrons and people to run their own servers.  If the game modes are limited and no custom missions can be built at the moment, what's the point? 

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Reading the russian forums =FB=Loft said that if the sales were successful? He would like to make a campaign-based Coop campaign co-op where players fly off or against the AI or against a mixed team or against other players but this is still fantasy. That idea sounds great for me a huge map of war. :)

The funny thing is that this is extremely easy to create with the mission editor. I could do this alone in a week right now if I were so inclined.

 

It's hardly a matter of sales. If they wanted to do it they would. All it takes is a nice mix of missions per aircraft based on its various roles with win/loss continuous missions...which is already a function of the current mission editor. We were going to implement on Eagles Nest and I think it's already being used on Syndicate server.

 

If I cared enough, I'd blow the current SP campaign out of the sky with a proverbial slight of hand/my amateur mission making skills...but why bother?

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I live on the West Coast of America, and it's always dead during America's "prime time" in the evening, but busy all through out the day. I think a lot of people (such as myself), are just grinding the unlocks in campaign mode.

Doesn't help that the Syndicate server went down either.

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The funny thing is that this is extremely easy to create with the mission editor. I could do this alone in a week right now if I were so inclined.

 

It's hardly a matter of sales. If they wanted to do it they would. All it takes is a nice mix of missions per aircraft based on its various roles with win/loss continuous missions...which is already a function of the current mission editor. We were going to implement on Eagles Nest and I think it's already being used on Syndicate server.

 

If I cared enough, I'd blow the current SP campaign out of the sky with a proverbial slight of hand/my amateur mission making skills...but why bother?

Thanks for this insight.

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..this is extremely easy to create with the mission editor...

If I cared enough, I'd blow the current SP campaign out of the sky with a proverbial slight of hand/my amateur mission making skills...but why bother?

I'm not in a position to advice, you've run a server and I've never made a publicly available mission, but still... The editor is misleading about it's capabilities (assuming it is the same one as it was in ROF). It may seem complex, but powerful at first, but in fact it is complex and very limited.

Making anything non-trivial which goes above what devs intented to use in their own campaign becomes a huge pain.

 

Сreativity is a different matter of course, but from technical point of view I wouldn't put "extremely easy" and "the mission editor" in the same sentence.

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......

 

Are the USA players just not playing multiplayer in an attempt to picket the unlock system?  Yeah, I'm not ecstatic about it, but unlocks shouldn't prevent people from enjoying the quality MP experience that is enjoyed by many, several hours before most of us get home.

 

 

No, for me there is no need to fly to unlock it if it will be reset next month when they release the game. I won't unlock anything in SP and on line with a green skin is not going to happen. I could do MP without any unlocks IF we had a winter skin. Until then there is no need for me to log in at all. I'm sure it will get better as we go. For now there are other sims to play. 

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From what I can tell, multiplayer hasn't really been affected in Europe compared to the impact that the USA has seen.  

 

I was able to get out of work early yesterday, and flew at 4PM Eastern Time USA, and Syndicate was totally full and had a blast for about and hour or so.  By 6-7PM Eastern Time USA, the servers completely empty out and maintain ghost town status throughout the remainder of the evening. 

Because 6-7PM in US of A is late night/early morning here in Europe (12PM-1AM).We like to sleep here from time to time :P

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I'm not in a position to advice, you've run a server and I've never made a publicly available mission, but still... The editor is misleading about it's capabilities (assuming it is the same one as it was in ROF). It may seem complex, but powerful at first, but in fact it is complex and very limited.

Making anything non-trivial which goes above what devs intented to use in their own campaign becomes a huge pain.

 

Сreativity is a different matter of course, but from technical point of view I wouldn't put "extremely easy" and "the mission editor" in the same sentence.

You wouldn't put "extremely easy" and "the mission editor" in the same sentence, but I would...and did...and will! The many commands, links, wires, MCU's, targets, and objects may seem daunting at first...but when you figure it out after a rather insignificant amount of tinkering time it really does click into place and start making tons of sense...and that's when the ideas and possibilities start rolling in.

 

I'd like to pick your brain about why you think it's limited, and what exactly in this context you deem limited. What exactly is it you're trying to make it do that it cannot? Everything I've wanted to do in a flight sim or had suggested that people wanted to do in a flight sim in a mission is possible so far...until the unlocks came, that is.

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If I cared enough, I'd blow the current SP campaign out of the sky with a proverbial slight of hand/my amateur mission making skills...but why bother?

 

Because the player base would love you, passionately. I mean, who would turn down unlimited sex from a bunch of middle-aged men? 

 

No but seriously, I don't think I'd be the only one who would really appreciate you continuing your work with the mission editor, be that online of offline. It's a real shame you've become so disheartened with the experience, I can't blame you, but when you have time, and feel like it, it would be marvellous if you could continue your work, because the results have been stunning sofar! 

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I'd like to pick your brain about why you think it's limited, and what exactly in this context you deem limited. What exactly is it you're trying to make it do that it cannot? Everything I've wanted to do in a flight sim or had suggested that people wanted to do in a flight sim in a mission is possible so far...until the unlocks came, that is.

Sorry, but I've spent way too much time with the editor in ROF and the topic is not a pleasant one due to great disappointment over wasted time. So I won't go into details, I just wanted to add a word of caution and that's it.

 

Some authors wanted to count a number of planes in a specific area for MP missions. This could be used to spawn additional AAA or targets on demand.

I invented this monstrosity to solve the problem: http://riseofflight.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=347&t=34154

It is not difficult once you understand the idea, but do you imagine how complexity can grow if trivial counter looks like this?

And for something impossible. Try to spawn AI fighter escort which follows human-controlled bomber in a multiplayer mission.

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Sorry, but I've spent way too much time with the editor in ROF and the topic is not a pleasant one due to great disappointment over wasted time. So I won't go into details, I just wanted to add a word of caution and that's it.

 

Some authors wanted to count a number of planes in a specific area for MP missions. This could be used to spawn additional AAA or targets on demand.

I invented this monstrosity to solve the problem: http://riseofflight.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=347&t=34154

It is not difficult once you understand the idea, but do you imagine how complexity can grow if trivial counter looks like this?

And for something impossible. Try to spawn AI fighter escort which follows human-controlled bomber in a multiplayer mission.

Ah you must be the guy that made the counter that Vander showed me. Thanks for that! It's helped immensely with my AAA management.

 

AI escorts can be spawned in co-op missions with the built in functionality, and can also be spawned and escort (non-natively) in open multiplayer missions as well with a limited matrix of check zones as caryatid has created (whom I was working with for AI implementation on Eagle's Nest), though it is resource expensive it still gets the job done. Other, extremely efficient, avenues for the same effect are being worked on as I type this.

 

 

This intelligent gentleman ported this over to BoS once we got involved with him in Eagle's Nest and the stuff that was coming out was absolutely amazing. Testing had started on the live server just before the plug got pulled.

 

I understand it gets complex, but the desired effect is achievable if one is dedicated to do the work...which is with anything in life that's worth doing. This is what a strong, close community is for, and if any genre of game has one of those it's the sim community.

Edited by =SE=AbortedMan

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I didn't know my counter implementation was used anywhere. Good to see that it is useful :)

I thought they dumped coop for BOS (but I haven't launched the game for a long time), but yes it allows AI escorts and indeed you can cover the area with multiple check zones to get similar results.

 

I'm also the guy who made advanced photo recon for ROF multiplayer. And I've tried to make my own editor with more high-level approach allowing for easier and faster mission authoring, but I've stuck trying to map high-level concepts into the "language" of the mission editor (and some other problems as well, anyway the project appeared much more complex than I expected).

 

Anyway good luck, your optimism is inspiring and I don't want to discourage anything :)

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It's your kind of creativity and commitment that the devs currently lack. It seems they've created a random mission editor to do the work for them...and of course, it's sub-par since it's obviously a huge shortcut/cut-corner. One starts to think that if they took the same time they took to create this bland, lifeless mission generator they'd have enough time to create a significant and memorable SP campaign that actually felt like it meant something. Like I said, just with what I've learned in the past two months I could create a meaningful campaign that had a story, plot, and over-arching cause/effect line that provided continuity depending on the player's decisions. This is baseline stuff and none of it is in the game currently...it's not the editor that's at fault, it's the effort by whoever was behind this mess.

Edited by =SE=AbortedMan

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Knowing what we had with the old IL2, knowing what we had with Rof, knowing who is in the community who could bring life and excitement plus realism and immersion to the WWII flight sim genre... why have we ended up with this mess?

 

I'll still reserve full judgement though until the game is released, although Jason said they would change nothing in a recent post... and todays update should raise some eyebrows after this last week of fun :)

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If I cared enough, I'd blow the current SP campaign out of the sky with a proverbial slight of hand/my amateur mission making skills...but why bother?

It's guys like you that will be responsible for lifting this game from the ashes if development continues in its current direction. Don't be discouraged, you could link up with Feathered_IV and create something that the community would never forget.

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It's your kind of creativity and commitment that the devs currently lack. It seems they've created a random mission editor to do the work for them...and of course, it's sub-par since it's obviously a huge shortcut/cut-corner. One starts to think that if they took the same time they took to create this bland, lifeless mission generator they'd have enough time to create a significant and memorable SP campaign that actually felt like it meant something. Like I said, just with what I've learned in the past two months I could create a meaningful campaign that had a story, plot, and over-arching cause/effect line that provided continuity depending on the player's decisions. This is baseline stuff and none of it is in the game currently...it's not the editor that's at fault, it's the effort by whoever was behind this mess.

Wow....I find myself agreeing with you on an almost scary level.... :biggrin:

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It's your kind of creativity and commitment that the devs currently lack. It seems they've created a random mission editor to do the work for them...and of course, it's sub-par since it's obviously a huge shortcut/cut-corner. One starts to think that if they took the same time they took to create this bland, lifeless mission generator they'd have enough time to create a significant and memorable SP campaign that actually felt like it meant something. Like I said, just with what I've learned in the past two months I could create a meaningful campaign that had a story, plot, and over-arching cause/effect line that provided continuity depending on the player's decisions. This is baseline stuff and none of it is in the game currently...it's not the editor that's at fault, it's the effort by whoever was behind this mess.

 

I really hope that you guys get Eagles nest running again at some point. At the moment there is not much on MP side (nor in SP, for that matter) if you are flying from North-America.

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question. is it really a problem to fly on another continent server ?

 

during my best online times, i had a poor connection and often flew with a 200-250 ping, and while i understand a lower ping (now i can get 40) is better, it didnt prevent any good play. this isnt a FPS and ping is less important.

 

unless your concern is strictly timezones based.

Edited by FZG_Immel
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Due in no small part to the new unlock system, multiplayer has been dead in the US ever since last week.  It seems to have not slowed in Europe as far as I can tell, they seem to have more free time to unlock skins over there I guess.

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I have not been around for 18+ months, last night I decided to see what was going on over here and see what state the game was in, so far I have greeted with 2 major issues 1. being the unlock's and 2. the shutdown of the NA server. #2 is the one I was wondering about...how does 777 shut down  a customers server? 2nd is there dedicated server software available?

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Due in no small part to the new unlock system, multiplayer has been dead in the US ever since last week.  It seems to have not slowed in Europe as far as I can tell, they seem to have more free time to unlock skins over there I guess.

 

I play MP without unlocks..

 

I only unlocked the F4 seat armor.. which was 2 F4 missions

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Syndicate servers are either full or empty for me, so.... hammering down some AI in SP.

 

needing more serrvers, tho

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777 provided funding for Eagle's nest.

 

will we have to rent servers from a host company?

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I really hope the Syndicate, or Eagles Nest comes up again soon. I can't take these mosquito cloud dogfights in the basic servers much longer; the home of every shoulder shooter and rammer.

Edited by Silky

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777 provided funding for Eagle's nest.

I can afford to host a server, that is no problem. The thing keeping us from hosting again is not having a server account, which was deactivated when this hit. Also not wanting to be involved in this volatile design environment or helping ungrateful people (no one here) is a bit to blame too.
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I can afford to host a server, that is no problem. The thing keeping us from hosting again is not having a server account, which was deactivated when this hit. Also not wanting to be involved in this volatile design environment or helping ungrateful people (no one here) is a bit to blame too.

 

 

the server account is just for devolpment or is that how it will be handled at release?

Edited by T-oddball

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the server account is just for devolpment or is that how it will be handled at release?

Technically a normal player account could be used which would mean buying another key...but I'll be damned if I'm going to pay for another account out of pocket to help these guys do something they should be doing themselves. I'm assuming upon release, there will be a system in place for a player to obtain a server-only key that people can use without sacrificing their own player account and not having to pay extra...hell, maybe they will charge extra for it, I dunno.

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Is it the lack of another account that prevents you from running your server again ?

 

Or is it that you don't want to set up a server again (for personal reasons I understand) ?

 

If it's number 1, I'm pretty sure we could buy another account for that. If be glad to help.

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Technically a normal player account could be used which would mean buying another key...but I'll be damned if I'm going to pay for another account out of pocket to help these guys do something they should be doing themselves. I'm assuming upon release, there will be a system in place for a player to obtain a server-only key that people can use without sacrificing their own player account and not having to pay extra...hell, maybe they will charge extra for it, I dunno.

 

I remember buying  2 copies of CLOD when it was first released (russian versions) So I could run a server :) we had to do a similar work around with Arma3 alpha, log in launch server , close down steam go to gaming rig log in and join  server :)

 

I dooubt they will make you buy another copy of the game, they will provide a way for the comminty to run their own servers (I hope) with out resorting to forcing us to rent from (value added partners) server companies, I would of course if i were to run a large server but atleast that way i get to pick the company and the hardware.

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I paid the premium edition unlock I do not think anything I have previously paid. Or return my $ 80

 

I only play MP

Edited by -III/JG52-BlackWest
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