Jump to content
-IRRE-Belmont

Unlock System : Call to the developpers

Recommended Posts

Alright, so here we are,

Campaign is out, and the unlocks are as well.

 

First thing first, i really thought the unlock system would work, i really did..

But after seing more and more peoples i knew leaving the game  because of this feature, i really needed to ask you this devs...

 

To remove the system in MP, and keep it only in SP

I know you guys annonced that system long ago, but now, when it's released, it is questionable to keep it.

Most of players in MP are not ok with it, and if it is not changed, i fear it will KILL multiplayer within mounths..

 

I have a lot of faith in this game, it's one of the game i have still hope in..

So please developpers, reconsider it , at least , start a VOTE... 

 

Like i said earlier, this thread is not a -rage thread-

And i hope it will not end in an open war between SP and MP players..

 

With all due respects

 

Cheers and thanks for reading 

 

 

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If people leave this game because of unlock system, maybe they shouldnt even buy it in the first place. Campaign is sadly more dissapointing...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, the amount of people I know playing or planning to purchase the game has just taken a nose dive.

 

It doesn't help that the Eagles's Nest server is now gone and there isn't a historical mission based server in North America anymore.

Edited by Afwastus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As a on line only player I would like to see a balance between on line and single player. For the single player guys they should have a well though out and immersive campaign with or without "locks" . The on line crowd should have servers that can set what planes, load out and fuel are available based on time, date and supply.

 

 

 ROF had a superb career mode but it was never popular.

  I think not Zak, I know a few off line players who love the Pat Wilson campaign generator in ROF. Yeah a third party mod but as I'm told it made it better.

 

If people leave this game because of unlock system, maybe they shouldnt even buy it in the first place. Campaign is sadly more dissapointing...

Most knew that the single player would be the grind, unlock, power up's PlayStation type of game, but not for on line play as well. I can see how a new guy getting into this game might need the off line training and get rewards for doing it right. But this is not the way. Why not just have a training mission for each aircraft to get noob's up to speed?

Sad that those of us who did buy the game at the start and didn't know or understand the SP unlock would carry over to MP had already bought the game. Then you go on to say the campaign is disappointing.  Hum, all off line AI campaigns are boring and disappointing to me.

 

Yeah, the amount of people I know playing or planning to purchase the game has just taken a nose dive.

 

It doesn't help that the Eagles's Nest server is now gone and there isn't a historical mission based server in North America anymore.

Yeah they were going in the right direction of what a on line server should be. Just sad. I hope the dev's are reading this backlash from founding members and rethinking how they put this game out on the market. I hope the best for them. As it stands I just don't see it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alright, so here we are,

Campaign is out, and the unlocks are as well.

 

First thing first, i really thought the unlock system would work, i really did..

But after seing more and more peoples i knew leaving the game  because of this feature, i really needed to ask you this devs...

 

To remove the system in MP, and keep it only in SP

I know you guys annonced that system long ago, but now, when it's released, it is questionable to keep it.

Most of players in MP are not ok with it, and if it is not changed, i fear it will KILL multiplayer within mounths..

 

I have a lot of faith in this game, it's one of the game i have still hope in..

So please developpers, reconsider it , at least , start a VOTE... 

 

Like i said earlier, this thread is not a -rage thread-

And i hope it will not end in an open war between SP and MP players..

 

With all due respects

 

Cheers and thanks for reading 

 

The campaign is really fun though. And in SP the unlock system works well.

I also see it's a problem for MPers to go through the whole campaign to be able to play with preferred gear and aircrafts.

I think I'll wait with MP until I get some more stuff unlocked, and if most people do like me, the servers will be deserted for a while after release.

 

Could a possible solution be to let the score in MP add to the campaign score?

Or maybe add Co-op to the campaign? (this might be a massive job, programming wise though)

 

Scrapping the whole progression system would (for me atleast) be a shame as I think it's a really good idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The campaign is really fun though. And in SP the unlock system works well.

I also see it's a problem for MPers to go through the whole campaign to be able to play with preferred gear and aircrafts.

I think I'll wait with MP until I get some more stuff unlocked, and if most people do like me, the servers will be deserted for a while after release.

 

Could a possible solution be to let the score in MP add to the campaign score?

Or maybe add Co-op to the campaign? (this might be a massive job, programming wise though)

 

Scrapping the whole progression system would (for me atleast) be a shame as I think it's a really good idea.

It's destroying MP, that's why it is not needed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The campaign is really fun though. And in SP the unlock system works well.

I also see it's a problem for MPers to go through the whole campaign to be able to play with preferred gear and aircrafts.

I think I'll wait with MP until I get some more stuff unlocked, and if most people do like me, the servers will be deserted for a while after release.

 

Could a possible solution be to let the score in MP add to the campaign score?

Or maybe add Co-op to the campaign? (this might be a massive job, programming wise though)

 

Scrapping the whole progression system would (for me atleast) be a shame as I think it's a really good idea.

 Could you explain for me, where you have fun in the SP-Campaign? I can only speak for myself and I don't have any fun in that campaign, its senseless and the AI is just plain stupid. So I start flying I shoot them down, I land. I mean, it could be really great but it isn't. Hope someone who really has fun with it could explain it for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i went to land on frist mission of the campain cashed got 50% of the points, didnt unlock the 23.cannon and cant play next mission with out it and cant reaplay frist one stuck with no way to unlock anything. how do i fix this?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have waited until the SP campaigns were out to comment on unlocks.  I have flown tutorials and received some unlocks.  This issue is not a matter of difficulty, it is simply a matter of time.  Not everyone has the time to mess with the missions to unlock the mods.  They wish to come on-line and fly a sortie or two in MP, with all the tools made available to them, and then go to bed.  As far as mod unlocks in SP I could go either way.  Having the tutorial missions are a good idea for those new to the genre, with or without unlocks.

 

Bottom line, I do not see the attraction of an unlock system to any purchaser.  Acceptance maybe, but not an attraction.  If anything it could keep a certain number of people from purchasing the game.  Why would you want to have a "feature" that may curtail even a few sales.  I'm sorry but I just don't understand what the feature/attraction is supposed to accomplish.

 

IL2 BOS is a great sim IMO and I have and will enjoy it regardless of the unlock system.  My suggestion to the devs is to rethink this issue before it turns into a big negative for final release.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bottom line, I do not see the attraction of an unlock system to any purchaser.  Acceptance maybe, but not an attraction.  If anything it could keep a certain number of people from purchasing the game.  Why would you want to have a "feature" that may curtail even a few sales.  I'm sorry but I just don't understand what the feature/attraction is supposed to accomplish.

 

IL2 BOS is a great sim IMO and I have and will enjoy it regardless of the unlock system.  My suggestion to the devs is to rethink this issue before it turns into a big negative for final release.

Totally agree with this. In fact a good friend of mine in Australia has told me that many of the serious flight simmers he knows (and he knows a lot) that were considering purchasing this game, now have no intention of doing so.

 

This points & unlocks system is both unappealing and disliked by a large proportion of the single player guys and multplayer guys alike. The last sentence of the quoted text should be a big worry to the devs. It is a shame as I had high hopes for this and I realize how hard the team has worked - and that is appreciated, but I can't help thinking that this type of gameplay is a huge mistake for the majority of customers, potential and for us founders.

 

Sorry, but that's how I see it.

Edited by Rivet

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was so pleased with the dedicated servers and the game last week, and now this unlock ####. I quit , and about everybody I know will do the same. You can ban me all you want . It simply does not matter. I have never seen a game with so much potential, being destroyed by its own developers. In a single move they manage to decimate the community

Edited by Rama
  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi. I haven't really been in forum since I bought the game.

 

I have been playing the game and enjoying it.

 

However I simply do not have time to play a single training campaign for unlocks. I'm a busy professional who likes to unwind on the weekend with  a couple hours "flying".

 

If this is turning into Angry Birds. I'm out.

 

Cheers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's pretty much EDITED. Here are some of my thoughts from the developer thread:

 

 

Which is a shame in itself because, up until Friday, things were looking positively up for Stalingrad. On a personal note; I have invested a large portion of my time (with others) in the creation of a RP system for a group of pilots (both established and new) on another forum. It's almost looking like that investiture will be sitting idle for some time now.

 

 

 

But this is the very crux of the issue at hand; why bother? If the unlock system is so easy to breeze through with autopilot and 16x speed, why even bother implementing it. Must I really spend an hour of my time idling at my desk whilst the game plays itself, and unlocks itself, just to apply an attachment for MP? It's pretty laughable. It's clear that feedback given to the developers is largely ignored - this situation has been debated for months now right up until this point. And yet here we are, finding MP content (and QMB!) locked out of reach until CTRL+A is pushed, in an inconsistent and aggravating manner (summer skins in a winter map? lol).

 

I wouldn't be quite so frustrated if this was confined only to the SP campaign, heck I may even embrace it. But it's the fact that this system has been applied to every single facet of Battle of Stalingrad, pervading so far as to reach into the QMB - something that I have never seen done before in any flight 'simulation' game before. Actually, I take that back - it happened in Microsoft Flight and that game folded in a year. :lol:

 

We always knew that an unlock-type system would appear in Stalingrad, there's absolutely no denying that. We weren't however told just how deep and integral this system would be to the entire game. Fast forward two to three years and assume that the best part of the community is still intact; new players will have to trudge through the most basic of SP content just to activate /x/ or /y/ in the user-made custom content, in whatever theater or area of operations we find ourselves in. I simply cannot wait to even begin explaining that to friends whom I have recommended the game to. "Yeah, come join us in this server mate! Grab your BF-110, Richard will be your gunner. Oh, what's that? You haven't unlocked the aircraft yet? Guess you better go grind in SP for a few hours then."

 

I wish I could recommend Stalingrad to folk but it's now exceptionally difficult. The actual content is solid, top-drawer aerial warfare simulation - probably the best I've felt and experienced.

Frankly, it's all very disappointing in what has otherwise been a very shining example of game development.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The whole arcade "unlock" system is a waste of code. We buy this for the sim fidelity, then are forced into arcade mode? Why? Why not just make that optional like the HUD, so the arcade people can use HUD and Unlocks, and us sim fans can fly non-arcade.

  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Both on line and off line guys are jumping up a down about this. Its WarThunderish crap. Soon will we have power ups as well? Health packs you fly through to repair your pilot and plane? Lets just put it on Xbox and let the squeakers (10 to some teenage year olds) jump in too. I hate to stir the pot and post all over the forum but this is not the game I bought into. It just took a bad turn and unless the devs listen and change it I see a lot of founders pulling up stakes and leaving, mad they are out the money they spent on this disaster of a game. It could have been so good as a middle of the road sim.

  • Upvote 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually don't hate the campaign mode - just being forced to play it.

I work 6 days a week. I simply don't have time to grind on SP just so I can have field mods I already bought on MP.

 

I really think you guys (1CGS) need to rethink the details of the XP implementation. There have been so many posts on the WT forum about how whole squadrons were going to leave to come to BoS because the MP was so superior. I fear that will all abruptly change right now.

 

Sadly I think you ignore this concern at your own peril.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem appears to be that the developers are firmly convinced that adding unlocks to the game and then forcing people to play single player to unlock them is going to attract more mainstream gamers.

 

Now of course, they might be right, maybe those of us who bought the early release are just a small  percentage of the potential audience and it really doesn't matter how we feel about features. Perhaps, the mainstream gamers will flock to the game when they hear that there are unlocks and that there is XP to be harvested...

 

Unfortunately,I fear that even if those assumption turn out to be wrong, social psychology has show us that groupthink is hard to shake off once a decision making process has gone far enough and I'm not sure there will be any changes.

Edited by Afwastus
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have waited until the SP campaigns were out to comment on unlocks.  I have flown tutorials and received some unlocks.  This issue is not a matter of difficulty, it is simply a matter of time.  Not everyone has the time to mess with the missions to unlock the mods.  They wish to come on-line and fly a sortie or two in MP, with all the tools made available to them, and then go to bed.  As far as mod unlocks in SP I could go either way.  Having the tutorial missions are a good idea for those new to the genre, with or without unlocks.

 

Bottom line, I do not see the attraction of an unlock system to any purchaser.  Acceptance maybe, but not an attraction.  If anything it could keep a certain number of people from purchasing the game.  Why would you want to have a "feature" that may curtail even a few sales.  I'm sorry but I just don't understand what the feature/attraction is supposed to accomplish.

 

IL2 BOS is a great sim IMO and I have and will enjoy it regardless of the unlock system.  My suggestion to the devs is to rethink this issue before it turns into a big negative for final release.

 

+1

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Altought I'm not personally against the unlocking system and it does not bother me because I do love the game as it is, I have to give support to these guys. Trying to get casual gamers or arcade gamers to play sim has never worked. It has always led to disaster. There are countles examples how a good well known and loved game brand has turned in to curse word for the people how loved it because they tryed to please the big masses and in the end the masses where not interested. It just destroyed the brand.

Now this is really the first time that IL-2 Sturmovik is in the edge of redeeming itself after years of failures and bad reputation after the first sucsesfull release that many sim lovers are still today playing. This is also the first time many of those players are actually thinking of getting a new IL-2.

That's why I think devs should really think this through again.

You are a great dev team. You have listened users again and again and again and this cooperation between the founders and the dev team has led to this place where we are now and it's a fucking awesome plase to be. So why stop listening now?

This get rid of unlocking thing has a valid point. Maybe just take it away from expert dificulty level and leave it for the arcade type? I don't know. That seems a bit stupid too. Still, many times proven fact is that you cant please everyone. Meaning that if you want to make a sim for sim lovers then dont do arcade shit in it. It will not work. It will not help getting those arcade gamers in to the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So after 2 days with this unlock business I have a few observations.

 

First, achieving unlocks is trivially easy. WTF? The ONLY value such a system could add to the MP experience would be to limit access to the limited aircraft on MP maps to those people capable of utilising them. But no - if anything it has the opposite effect, bringing me to my second observation.

 

I have read a few "its not so bad" posts on the forum now which describe how, due to the triviality of the campaign missions, it is possible to breeze through "capping" an aircraft (in ONLY 8 hours) by blasting around the map on autopilot. So the people with all the unlocks will now be high school kids with limitless spare time who think flight simming is pressing A, going to hyperspace and back, then blasting a more-or-less static aircraft and warping home. Then its back to Twitter and Facebook for an ADD fix before some 90210.

 

Meanwhile, fans of immersive battlefield simulations suffer through 90 minutes of mind and ass numbing straight-and-level, to go through the motions of downing an unchallenging opponent, one painful unlock at a time (for me that would be about 5 or 6 unlocks a week due to time) so that in about 2 months I can get back to playing against my mates online.

 

Are you #$%^ing kidding?

 

If the unlocks must stay please at least raise the bar some.


Of all my accomplishments I may have achieved during the war, I am proudest of the fact that I never had to unlock my aircraft.

— Colonel Erich 'Bubi' Hartmann, GAF.

  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

my gaming time is limited and i simply dont have time for unlocking stuff. for 95$ i want everything unlocked and ready to jump in MP, cause thats why i bought this game in first place. im not interested in campaign, sure i might play it some day but to be forced to play it because i need unlocks for MP is wrong and plain stupid.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I needed 4 hours to unlock all weapons on the IL-2. With expert, full Distance, always landing, no time acceleration and no autopilot.

The missions were mostly the same destroy 4 artillerie to success. It was absolutly boring and i wish i can get my time back.

I hope the devs integrate more challeging missions in this campaign, at the moment no thrill and no fun for me. :unsure:  Then better go to work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would be nice if mp score counted towards unlocks as well and coop campaign would be better otherwise what's the point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i really enjoy the unlock System, especially online. My experience is that a lot of People only cruise around airfield divind down for a quick kill no thoughts about flak or highspeed ground Crash , collision or cooperative Teamwork. These sorts of Players wont reach their Points. The unlock System shure will force them to think again about their tactics and art of dogfight. it makes ground missions more difficult and complex since you Need to learn how to dodge flak and sneek the enemy fighters. For me ist a great ascent of the Game. And really has nothing to do with arccade, not with this flightmodel and simcharacter. I wish all These People who are frustraded with unlocks to think out of their Windows and realize the Quality of it. last but not least: i havnt already palyed the full campain and so didnt all the others. so how could they say ist boring? the whole war was unliterally and so was il2 forgotten battles and 1946. Here you can Change between ground, escort or intercept and make your campain full filed with a style of missions.  I really like it

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i really enjoy the unlock System, especially online. My experience is that a lot of People only cruise around airfield divind down for a quick kill no thoughts about flak or highspeed ground Crash , collision or cooperative Teamwork. These sorts of Players wont reach their Points. The unlock System shure will force them to think again about their tactics and art of dogfight. it makes ground missions more difficult and complex since you Need to learn how to dodge flak and sneek the enemy fighters. For me ist a great ascent of the Game. And really has nothing to do with arccade, not with this flightmodel and simcharacter. I wish all These People who are frustraded with unlocks to think out of their Windows and realize the Quality of it. last but not least: i havnt already palyed the full campain and so didnt all the others. so how could they say ist boring? the whole war was unliterally and so was il2 forgotten battles and 1946. Here you can Change between ground, escort or intercept and make your campain full filed with a style of missions.  I really like it

Yeah, nice thing that you can't unlock online

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@ belmont , didnt try that out, but this could be some Point to Change for me too.

 

S!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well Yes. That is the point is it. If this unlocking system is there why can it not be done in multiplayer? That would indeed lead to coop, taktical gameplay and retreats from battle and so on. It would better picture the fear of loosing your life (point in this case).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

really i thought it would work this way. it truely would seperate the game from arcade titles in multiplayer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Paying 90 bucks for a game where I need to unlock a basic loadout was a stretch, so I gave the campaign a try. The campaign is very rough, with ranks like Pilot level 2 or 3 is horrible. You should give the people options, like mentioned before, some people don't have time to grind away. If you want to play MP, let them..... they spent big money on your game

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I, too, would like the unlock system removed. I have neither the time nor the motivation for this kind of arcade playing. Having paid for the game I want full access to it, if only to try out or experience certain flight or combat situations. It escapes me what the benefits of an unlock system are, but if some users want it, then an idea bay be to make it optional. In MP you may then have sessions with or without unlock. I also wonder why the developers build in something that restricts players over and above the challenges that they encounter in missions anyway. Please, please unlock the unlock system! I am convinced you will be rewarded with more buyers of the sim.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alright,heres my take on it after a weekend at the controls.

 

whilst i didnt like the unlock system and pretty much still dont,its hardly a deal breaker.

any mug worth his salt should be able to unlock what they want for a particular aircraft within a few missions,do it on expert and its double XP right?

 

so,if its removed,whats left? a rather bland SP experience?(a career mode similar to ROF or even IL2FB46 would be my personal pref.)

 

if XP was gained across both SP and MP ,it would probably be the best way to have the unlock system(if we must)

this way it has an incentive for the online and offline pilots to at least achieve something plausible towards whatever the goal.

 

again,i say i dont agree with the unlock system but we have to work with what we got.

if you remove it altogether the SP campaign becomes pointless(sadly)

(i also think the lack of the historical atmosphere in the UI doesn't help immersion either)

 

3rd party add on SP campaigns would be a good way to spice up the offline,but,i have no idea if this is achievable with the current vision of the future product.

 

from what i can tell so far,online action is excellent.it feels good,it looks good and if it comes remotely close to the options available for online actions similar to IL2FB/46.it will be a success and drag alot of the disillusioned in from the wilderness.

 

Check your 6

 

S

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you been paid to come here and lie?

...If you worked for a marketing company and had been paid to say nice things then I can see how you'd get confused. 

 

Maybe he is just trolling you ;) Seriously the conspiracy theory that there are paid marketing flunkies on the forums is getting pretty old. Let's keep it about the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The worst part is that none of the developers or admins said anything in this topic (besides there are more like this one). That non-action or ignoring way of doing things is just bad... Devs and Admins:

 

- If you're NOT going to change it, say it

- If you're going to change it, say it.

- If you don't know if it's better to keep it or not, ASK THE [Edit by FSM: Dearie me!]  COMMUNITY THAT PAID YOU

 

Thanks in advance for not saying a word

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, it's sad. The game is truly fantastic at it's core. All they have to do is some pretty simple scripting: Limit unlocks to the campaign, leaving everything open for mission building and MP. I've uninstalled it and I can't see myself coming back to it without some kind of change, or 1CGS for that matter.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They already say that this is the main feature of game design and will not change. People or don't read or don't want to believe. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I for one, am going to leave this game and never recommed it. Due to this UNLOCK policy. It is not worth the aggrivation attempting to unlock features for hours on end. The Devsw need their head examined for doing this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...