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Developer Diary, Part 81

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Let me add, in our group we are all around/over 40, with work, family, often little child, exactly like some of you developer i imagine.
Now think this, after an hard working days, after the time for your wife and son finally you have a little spare time to play your favorite game.
But you cant do it.
You have to play, alone, a campaign you are absolutely not interested in.
Worst case, after done your duty (the campaign) it you can not organize a jabo mission with your friends because some have unlocked the things and some not.
And due to the few spare time this will stand for a long time before all your team mate are done with the unlock.
Add to this the lack of a mission builder for training your new players and you will understand why the majority of the old IL2 players that I know, and i know a lot of them, are playing BOS randomly and less than ClOD or Il2 1946.
Now i know we are not your main target but is so easy to make us happy, just leave the unlock for SP only and provide a FMB ASAP.

 

 

Good point here Aracno.

 

+1, 100% agree.

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In all honesty, I'm not sure if it matters whether we knew XYZ was coming or not.

 

The fact is that a strong majority of players on these forums are vocally opposed to what has been brought out. Does that not say there is a problem.

 

It's easy to say "you knew this was coming", but that simply doesn't dissuade from the fact that a large number of people simply don't like the change, end of story. That alone says there is a problem that needs to be rectified. I'm looking at BoS and up until now it had a superb future, now I'm fearful for its future and I want to protect it because it is/was a product worth protecting because if 777 goes under then perhaps the finest creator of combat prop sims in the world leaves the scene. And there's nobody else out there.

 

I'm not saying that we need to ignore BoS's faults. I feel it's absolutely right to question these design choices which in all honesty are getting close to absurd, even childish in their implementation, but the developers are the ones now who have to make the change and what worries me is that, frankly, I don't think they're going to change and that unwillingnes has a very good chance of leaving such a fine sim as BoS stillborn, despite such amazing progress.

 

I'm not angry, I'm just bitterly sad at what I feel must happen now, perhaps I am exaggerating, but this is how I feel right now, if something isn't done about this system, BoS is dead.

And with it are the rest of the historical flight sims we know and love. 

DCS you say? nope, can that possibly support 64 players on a server? unlikely to my knowledge.

 

BoS is the end of the line, it's the sole pioneer forging ahead, I fear though that the track that's being laid is going to send the train over a canyon.

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I understand, but really after one week this issue is over with. are all MP experts so good that two or three jabo bombing practice runs in AQMB really going to ruin possibly the next five years of MP entertainment? This system is also an excellent way of getting newcomers up to speed before they progress to MP as to the FMB I heartily agree but releasing it before game release and finalisation will only lead to compatibility issues such as with Dservers during beta...Everyone wants to play this as if it is the finished product before that time has come :)

 

Cheers Dakpilot

 

 

Sorry Dak, but I'm looking forward, when hopefully we will have more than a dozen of ac.
BTW this working day is really horrible, so when I will finally go home what do you think I will do, one ours or two of a campaign i dont care, or i will play ClOD or Il2 1946 where i have friends and i dont need to bother myself with the unlock?
And about newcomers I think a single training mission with a veteran is better than 100 ours alone in SP against AI.

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Will the people who believe that the answer to all of this is a simple 'Make unlocks for Single Player' but 'No unlocks for Multi Player' just give it a rest!

There are plenty of SP guys who don't want to do it either.... The only reason I'm doing it at all is because of the game in it's current state only gives me that option!

But given the CHOICE (a beautiful word don't you think)

 

This!

Plus for me , at least for now, my choice is to not do it at all - I will be following the progress, and hope that third parties can develop some SP content that will attract me once again.

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Hi Zak, Hopefully there are more elaborate plans for the campaign in the near future.  Currently it does not deliver any real sense of "being there".  Can you comment about any upcoming improvements to immersion and level of detail?

More events will be added to the campaign mission as well as more targets to shoot and bomb.

 

I moved to a new home but still with no internet service installed yet. So I didn't even had any chance to play the campaign mode yet because of the silly "always connected" drm.. grrrr. I hope this will be changed with the full release.

There is a chance that someday an offline mode may be added. No idea about how big the chance is thou.

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I'm a little confused as to why people are referring to the time constraint & autopilot thing as an "exploit". Both tools were implemented by choice of the development team, who made the decision to spend time coding both in and making them available to the players. Players then start using the autopilot & time compression to burn through the SP campaign and suddenly it's an exploit? Yes that's most likely not the original developer intent but players just used the tools presented to them, they're not glitching or cheating or using third party software or anything other than what the development team provided people with.

 

 Sure, it's not a particularly nasty exploit but an exploit nonetheless. (The debate over what constitutes an exploit is the main theme of the wikipedia article on exploits so sure, it can always be debated.) But the developers are looking at a different shape of game to the players. If for example they were A/B testing missions to assist in further development server side, the use of AI to bypass even actually playing could absolutely break their game server side, by killing the feedback mechanism they use for measuring success of mission templates. Mass adoption of such a workaround could bring development of campaign material to a standstill until they had a strategy to address it. So yes, from a developer perspective it is an exploit because the game has a client/server architecture and still in a critical stage of development.. If it was il2:1946 and on your pc only then it wouldn't matter.  :)

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Better than "I reseted all your XPs". 

Ops :biggrin:

Too cynical. Anyway the joke's okay :)

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Just as a point of interest, why are there all these posts saying effectively "leave the unlocks etc for single players?" There are a significant amount of single players who don't like the arcade style of play or having to unlock items we've paid for either. We'd much rather have a proper cohesive campaign or career mode without all the silly arcade style play and big yellow text all over the screen stating "YOU HAVE SUCCESSFULLY TOOK OFF" for example. I understand the frustration of the multiplayer only boys having to grind through the SP element and have stated myself that this should not be the case, but please don't say all this arcade crap is ok for Single players because for the most part .................. it isn't.

 

For the Dev's. Incidentally, the correct phrase would be "YOU HAVE SUCCESSFULLY TAKEN OFF" if you must insist on this sort of thing. Take that as constructive criticism or whatever you like. Oh dear, I hope I'm not going to be labeled as a "Grammar Nazi" - Whatever, I don't really give a toss now.

 

Personally I would think it's fairly obvious I'd taken off once I'd raised my landing gear and was flying above the tree tops - but if you think it's necessary to inform me of the fact, then who am I to argue?

 

Also, for those who say "You can still play Multiplayer with standard aircraft" - you're missing the point. Most single players are SP players only just like MP players only and have no intention of going MP.

 

 

@Trooper, sorry I didn't see your post until after I posted this. You beat me to it with the "make unlocks for single player" thing. Still it does sort of prove the point doesn't it? :salute:

Edited by Rivet
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Support the game, don't cut your nose off to spite your face, have your say respectfully, as it annouces who you are, bigg huggs to every one!

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Sorry Dak, but I'm looking forward, when hopefully we will have more than a dozen of ac.
BTW this working day is really horrible, so when I will finally go home what do you think I will do, one ours or two of a campaign i dont care, or i will play ClOD or Il2 1946 where i have friends and i dont need to bother myself with the unlock?
And about newcomers I think a single training mission with a veteran is better than 100 ours alone in SP against AI.

 

 

let me add, if I'm here its because I still believe this game has the cards to become a miliar stone for simulation, otherwise i would have already uninstalled the game.

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What i want to know ,fore future onlocking is.


 


If i have onlock everything , and my pc craching because of a virus / broken HDD,SSD  or someting els ,


after re-install of the game i have to do it all over again ,or is there gone be a cloud saveing in my profile 


here on the site ,like you have in steam /or orgin whit other games .


 


Fore the love of this game let it be something of cloud saves, because people go nust if they need to do it everytime again after a pc problem .


 


NastyDog 


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 "YOU HAVE SUCCESSFULLY TOOK OFF" for example.

Thanks for the report, I'll find and check the text.

Fore the love of this game let it be something of cloud saves, because people go nust if they need to do it everytime again after a pc problem .

The progress is stored on our servers.

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It may be a bitter pill to swallow, but you all read Jasons post, and he was quite clear that nothing is going to change 'before' release, so we have what we have.

That implies that things 'may' be looked at again afterwards, so it may not all be doom and gloom for those that really hate the lack of choice.

The choice now though is clear, we either get on with it, (something I'm trying to do) or you can't face it and just sack it, and perhaps look at it again after a period of time and see what if anything has changed. 

I suspect many of us will just grudgingly soldier on. A point has been made, and perhaps in the not too distant future those points will be taken on board by the developers, who may have to change their stance and design ideas before they want to sell us all the next add on.

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I skipped the tutorial by using autopilot and 16x time acceleration, that worked and too less than 10 minutes.

+1 to that!  Flying the whole campaign that way at least between waypoints.

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More events will be added to the campaign mission as well as more targets to shoot and bomb.

Yeah, I was personally look for fighter sweep missions. Since attacks on trains or vehicle columns are not as exciting in FW-190 as attack on Soviet airfield would be. Hope such missions, which were pretty common at war time, will also appear here :)

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What i want to know ,fore future onlocking is.

 

If i have onlock everything , and my pc craching because of a virus / broken HDD,SSD  or someting els ,

after re-install of the game i have to do it all over again ,or is there gone be a cloud saveing in my profile 

here on the site ,like you have in steam /or orgin whit other games .

 

Fore the love of this game let it be something of cloud saves, because people go nust if they need to do it everytime again after a pc problem .

 

NastyDog 

 

 

of course it is linked to your account, not your PC

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Leave SP unlocks the way they are.  If you fly offline, you will continue to accrue points as you do right now.  2x points for Expert mode.

  • Allow players to do their unlocks in MP.  Cut the point rate to 1/4 SP (normal difficulty servers) or 1/2 for Expert servers. (XP/Unlock rates adjustable, just examples)

This allows MP-only players to bypass the portion of the game they don't want to play, while still keeping the SP campaign the much faster-track to unlocking.

 

Everyone wins.

Small addition to that from my side:

 

XP is only provided once emergency landed on friendly territory (50% of XP) or sucessfully landing your plane at your home airfield (100% XP). Every sortie you attend should provide you with a basic, low starting ammount of XP to encourage pilots more to fly long enought to acchieve sth in MP.

This is quite nessecary to avoid endless XP-piniata action like vulching or crushing an already outnumered enemy / whatever. If you vulch the enemy airfield for XP, get shot by aaa and have to land at enemy territory - well bad for you, 0% XP.

 

Strange enought the MP point system, which works nearly identical, has absolutely no purpose currently. If it could be changes to XP instead the whole thing has a reason again and would be even fun and nice to have.

Edited by [Jg26]5tuka
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Your faith in this company seems curiously deep. Is this your first video game? Have you not seen how these things usually go, or do you have some specific inside information that can back this monologue up?

 

If what you're referring to is what I think it is...that was me. I ran the Eagle's Nest server and had this very question in relation to my missions I was creating for it. If I'm your hope for "the closed mod making community talking about how to deal with unlockables and load out issues for MP missions"...then we're all screwed.

 

The kind of problems we are seeing here don't usually break a game. In my experience they are pretty normal during development and early release. It is also pretty usual for the players to think the sky is falling when new dynamics are released. I would have thought it was obvious from the way I have been discussing that I have seen these kind of community uproars over and over, and experienced them from both sides of the developer/player divide. Believe it or not I've had death threats when a game has gone wrong, and that is not unusual in this industry. You kindof get used to it. So no, thanks for patronizing me but this is not my fist game. Is it yours?

 

I am sorry that whatever went down between you and 777/1C has given you no hope for resolving any of the issues with MP/SP, but if you've been running eagles nest then you are in a better position than me or most of us to know the current situation, both technically and in terms of policy. But as I didn't know who you were, no I wasn't holding out hope for you in particular, just for the sim in general. I have seen a lot of games die in my time, and BoS doesn't feel like one of those to me. It feels like one that is having teething issues and community problems. No matter how upset people may get today, development will go on.

 

No game can be developed at the speed of peoples emotions and it would be a mess of a game if you tried. So yeah I am holding out hope without any evidence - because in my experience most of the weekends like last weekend blow over during a development and six months later there has been a rethink, a rebalance, an almost everyone has forgotten the problem ever existed. 

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Small addition to that from my side:

 

XP is only provided once emergency landed on friendly territory (50% of XP) or sucessfully landing your plane at your home airfield (100% XP). Every sortie you attend should provide you with a basic, low starting ammount of XP to encourage pilots more to fly long enought to acchieve sth in MP.

This is quite nessecary to avoid endless XP-piniata action like vulching or crushing an already outnumered enemy / whatever. If you vulch the enemy airfield for XP, get shot by aaa and have to land at enemy territory - well bad for you, 0% XP.

 

Strange enought the MP point system, which works nearly identical, has absolutely no purpose currently. If it could be changes to XP instead the whole thing has a reason again and would be even fun and nice to have.

 

Agreed, on all counts.  Good points, sir.    :salute:

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Small addition to that from my side:

 

XP is only provided once emergency landed on friendly territory (50% of XP) or sucessfully landing your plane at your home airfield (100% XP). Every sortie you attend should provide you with a basic, low starting ammount of XP to encourage pilots more to fly long enought to acchieve sth in MP.

This is quite nessecary to avoid endless XP-piniata action like vulching or crushing an already outnumered enemy / whatever. If you vulch the enemy airfield for XP, get shot by aaa and have to land at enemy territory - well bad for you, 0% XP.

 

Strange enought the MP point system, which works nearly identical, has absolutely no purpose currently. If it could be changes to XP instead the whole thing has a reason again and would be even fun and nice to have.

 

biggest weirdest thing...

 

100% agree on the rest. it would only MAKE SENSE to let people earn XP in MP

Edited by FZG_Immel

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Thanks for the report, I'll find and check the text.

The progress is stored on our servers.

Could be "You successfully took off" or "You have successfully taken off"

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I'm sure there will be some sort of bypass for the unlocks. And it's called CC.

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hey, you forget something about the game, is the final meters before release

devs now need us to test the game for final release and mostly the campaign

so, can we just do that, then we will have to time to complain about unlocks Sp vs Mp,

etc.

 

But for now just let the complain and fights aside for a while, let's test the campaign

with no jumping tutorials or stuff and then we can start to let them know what we want

at this time of development we are not going to chance anything, campaign will be released

no matters if we like it or not.

 

let's help the devs now, as they did a fine job since the announce of this project, and then

we will see how we can change the game mechanics after release.

 

Potz

Edited by GOAPotenz

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It may be a bitter pill to swallow, but you all read Jasons post, and he was quite clear that nothing is going to change 'before' release, so we have what we have.

That implies that things 'may' be looked at again afterwards, so it may not all be doom and gloom for those that really hate the lack of choice.

The choice now though is clear, we either get on with it, (something I'm trying to do) or you can't face it and just sack it, and perhaps look at it again after a period of time and see what if anything has changed. 

I suspect many of us will just grudgingly soldier on. A point has been made, and perhaps in the not too distant future those points will be taken on board by the developers, who may have to change their stance and design ideas before they want to sell us all the next add on.

In such case, RIP BoS, sadly. First impressions matter a lot. Sure, CloD recooped with the third party mod, but really? Does it need to get to that? It's worrying because I really like the game.

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Things change over time... the game will not stay in it's current state for ever more.

The original IL2 didn't become the legendary game of fame overnight... in fact it was the users that gave it fantastic single missions and campaigns, utilities and thousands of usable skins etc... hopefully the devs will allow access for us to do just that :)

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XP in Multiplayer is the best answer and the best solution, and also a reasonable suggestion from this community.

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XP in Multiplayer is the best answer and the best solution, and also a reasonable suggestion from this community.

Absolutly!

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XP in Multiplayer is the best answer and the best solution, and also a reasonable suggestion from this community.

 

yup

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XP in Multiplayer is the best answer and the best solution, and also a reasonable suggestion from this community.

Best solution is to leave unlocking to the campaign, exclusive to the campaign experience. That is still better than the current reality, though.

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But we can still smile as we 'Grind' away... :)

 

'Ah, Helmut... why did you not use your siren to scare the shit out of the Ivans today?'

'Er, because I have not yet unlocked it Herr Major!'

'Well hurry up... we will not win this battle unless everyone gets their back into the grind and unlocks all components needed to win!'

'Yes Herr Major, I will begin grinding immediately! But, Herr Major?'

'Yes Helmut, what is it?'

'Would I not be able to grind quicker if I was allowed x16 time acceleration?'

'GET OUT!!!'

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Albeit I do not like the system, the unlocks are going to stay. The thing which I am currently wondering about are the experience calculation icons when finishing an online mission. Will gaining experience be possible when playing online in the finished game? To me this would be at least more entertaining than unlocking stuff offline.

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But we can still smile as we 'Grind' away... :)

 

'Ah, Helmut... why did you not use your siren to scare the shit out of the Ivans today?'

'Er, because I have not yet unlocked it Herr Major!'

'Well hurry up... we will not win this battle unless everyone gets their back into the grind and unlocks all components needed to win!'

'Yes Herr Major, I will begin grinding immediately! But, Herr Major?'

'Yes Helmut, what is it?'

'Would I not be able to grind quicker if I was allowed x16 time acceleration?'

'GET OUT!!!'

:biggrin:

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biggest weirdest thing...

 

100% agree on the rest. it would only MAKE SENSE to let people earn XP in MP

Currently servers feauture the option to provide you with statistically "points" for acchievements which rank you up in the score board. Apart from that there's pretty much no purpose in it.

 

If the "points" were replaceable for "XP" on the other hand it could bring a pretty significant change to the MP expirience. It's not even requiring major coding and stuff as the system is in place already, only with a different function

Edited by [Jg26]5tuka

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More events will be added to the campaign mission as well as more targets to shoot and bomb.

 

I am very glad to hear this, it is exactly what campaign missions need. Different variations.

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The kind of problems we are seeing here don't usually break a game. In my experience they are pretty normal during development and early release. It is also pretty usual for the players to think the sky is falling when new dynamics are released. I would have thought it was obvious from the way I have been discussing that I have seen these kind of community uproars over and over, and experienced them from both sides of the developer/player divide. Believe it or not I've had death threats when a game has gone wrong, and that is not unusual in this industry. You kindof get used to it. So no, thanks for patronizing me but this is not my fist game. Is it yours?

 

Excuse me, but I'm part of this business for now about 20 years. I'm not on the side of the developers, I've always the side of the gamer and I can say to you based on my experiance that this what we see here at the moment can break the succes of a game. This is what often happend to a lot of games and this is what resultet in failing them. Instead of accepting that a game gone wrong, you should put a lot more effort in finding out why games were going wrong. Then I think you could understand the criticism of a lot of players more and make better games. Because everything what I read from you to this subject just claryfied the position of a developer who don't care about his customers.

 

This is no offence because I know I have a different point of view than people on the producer side of the industry.

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