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216th_LuseKofte

Dont blame it on the sim

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Here is a beautiful deflectionshot from a friendly against a team mate of me, he was shot down twise by friendly fire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRuhI3UXxOM&feature=youtu.be

And it shows the seriousness of the players more than the sim itself.

Difficultness in finding targets, lack of navigation skills make people find nearest enemy airbase and vulch, not taking proper measures of identifying airplanes before shooting.

This is all teething problem , but never the less it should be taken seriously. 

It is often the community itself that make a sim good or bad.

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I'm not usually an online player, but I've been giving it a go while waiting for some more substantial offline content. I must say I'm pretty disappointed in the shabby behaviour of the people that favour Luftwaffe aircraft. They seem happiest when shooting parachutes or playing a monotonous game of whack the mole over Soviet airfields. Sad to say it, but I'm yet to have a good experience from them.

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took a bad shot on a friendly some days ago. i should have noticed him and he got really angry and flamed me hard. i understood him. so TRIAS if you read this, one more time i'm sorry for that unlucky moment. :P

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took a bad shot on a friendly some days ago. i should have noticed him and he got really angry and flamed me hard. i understood him. so TRIAS if you read this, one more time i'm sorry for that unlucky moment. :P

Quoted for truth. I was there. Lol

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Friendly fire happened back in the days and will keep happening in onlineplay. As long as there is an apology imho "shit happens" and i accept that apology.

 

However some folks seem to have REALLY bad eyes. Yesterday for example. I flew in my 109 above Gumrak. That means no flak shooting at me. That alone is normally enough indicator that i am no russian. Another 109 with gunpods lines up a little farther behind me an tries to engage. I realize so and try to fly so he can clearly identify the crosses on my wings and give navlight signals like crazy. Also i keep flying in front of him increasing speed so he cant catch me with his gunpods. The guy really seems to be kind of blind and keeps engaging me and short before he cant keep up and stalls fires a burst at me (misses). At this point he was so close he MUST have realized i am german. I stalled after him but he keeps turning leaving me no choice but to shoot him down. Some guys really should get better glasses or a better display:)

 

I hope this gets a little better once A. we get the oportunity to skin our planes and people learn to know each others skins and B. most pilots become better by practice in recognizing friendlies.

Edited by VSG1_Winger
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It'll sort out itself eventually. We have only a few dedicated servers, people are not yet accustomed to aircraft profiles... Mission will get more advanced..... We will probably end up with airquake servers with fast action and more time consuming objective oriented servers. People with different taste in regards to gameplay will adjust and choose servers accordingly....

 

 

 

.. I am not the least worried...... Really. The game hasn't even been released yet.

 

We have a tendancy to cry after the wolf in this forum.... I understand your irritation and grief but i would suggest we don't paint the devil on the wall just yet... Or pointing fingers. What do we benefit from that?

 

2 cents

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People should follow one simple rule. Don't open fire unless you are 100% sure you have an enemy plane in your sight.

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Notice the ammount of FF increasing on Syndicate server as well. On BoS public expert server I even was attacked by 109 in a Stuka once which makes me really wonder if poeple even rudimentary know the planes.

 

I wouldn't blame the game engine for identification failures. Sure it has it's issues and it heavily depends on the angle to the contact you're looking at, but usually I easily recognize my oppoments at 3-4km range by recognizing shapes and insignas.

This works pretty good in BoS tbh as once you for example spot red spots on the wing you can easily assume it's red stars and therefore russian. On germans watch for the crosses and the yellow nose (depending on skin).

 

There is some kind of shape language that makes identification easier as well. 109s are the easiest to spot next to Yak-1s. La-5 and 190 can be tricky at times but it's possible to tell the difference at range. Maybe sby can make a recognition guide for newcomers similar to what WW2 pilots have been trained with :biggrin:

Edited by [Jg26]5tuka

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Won't there be server kicks and bans coming along soon? Thought I read that.

Didnt read that but agree. This will certainly help to prevent intended FF.

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S!

 

 Do not shoot unless have a positive ID. If can't ID, get closer and/or use zoom. I have rarely shot friendlies except those cutting in front of me when firing on a target. Bottom line, learn to ID the planes. Should not be too hard.

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If it only would be the FF, but it comes even worse. People shoulder shoot and crashes with others or hit friendlies while doing that. Some are dropping Bombs directly on the Airfield. Others don't care about taxiing the plane to the runway, instead they are blocking the way because they can't taxi OR they just start from the starting position which is so anoying. Countless times I got hit standing on the runway checking some things or roll out the flaps and what was the next I saw? A Plane shooting into me. And, yes I recently started to outrage because this destroys my fun in the game.

If I am not able to drive a car I don't put other people in danger. So it would be great if those pilots would take the time and learn it in the single player.

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It's all Beta testing at the moment

 

Things will change when servers are stable and run for the mission experience and not testing,

 

and there will be furball servers with little or no rules for those that want that

 

Cheers Dakpilot

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I am just saying, get in the role play. take time to know the map and find out the objectives. It is more fun, dogfights fun too, but historical overrated. Non of the pilots I read about ever enjoyed a dogfight, because you never really knew the outcome of it.

IT is so much more to offer and do in this game, escort bombers, join a wingman and make a team effort. I am not criticizing this sim I am just pointing out some teething problems.

We got vulching in cod too, well in all sims I have played, but here it happens as a part of the game

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Unless it is overspray, mid-furball, there is no excuse for opening up on a friendly. 

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IF a underlying system of status reset ( upon death or capture you lose all achievements ) would be developed ( I guess the community online wars will take care of this ) the vPilots would take greater care with ALL attitudes including and not exclusive to friendly fire but also survival, return to base, etc.

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IF a underlying system of status reset ( upon death or capture you lose all achievements ) would be developed ( I guess the community online wars will take care of this ) the vPilots would take greater care with ALL attitudes including and not exclusive to friendly fire but also survival, return to base, etc.

Sure but I think this could be carried even on further. My idea is to punish team damage with an increased respawn timer, like: 1. You shot a friendly, no critical: 15 sec. 2.You shot a friendly and critically damaged him, 30sec. 3. You killed an friendly, 1min 30 sec penalty.

 

The penalty would hit in for the next respawn only maybe applying to every respwan after heavy abuse. Think this would hit people better than deleting statistics (which aren't going far on dedicated servers anyway).

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Yes.

 

Punishment should be cRPG as well. Maybe grounded for a little/long while, or given the option to restart.

 

Eventually and if infraction gets repetitive ... court marshal and shot, therefore restarting a career.

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I really like 5tuka's idea... seems stern, but fair, as the saying goes :) The best option would be of course if these could be set on the server configuration.

 

I, being a bit of a noob, have also done my share of mistaken identities (think I've shot a friendly twice online.. both in a relatively short time frame) and after each time felt really bad about it.. basically it was back to offline, create a 16 vs 16 furball for practical IFF practice. Lately I think I've actually missed a few good chances online as I've not taken a shot when I've not been sure about the identification.

 

So, everyone CAN make mistakes (and surely did IRL also). While frustrating, I think it is in a way part of the game especially on expert, as long as it induces some kind of notable, but not game breaking penalties. The respawn time penalty seems like a plausible on to me.

 

- PitbullVicious

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Like others have stated,FF is and always will be a problem or flight Sims . we just gotta keep cool heads and carry on . over time the problem will decrease to a very rare occurance.

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I'm sure 99% of the time FF situations are purely accidental and the person identified the aircraft wrong. It took me quite some time to be able to 100% with confidence I.D. planes on Cliffs of Dover. I always fly german and the ATAG community plus youtube videos helped me understand what to look for. The number one thing was round vs squared off wings. Now that the later model 109s are in this sim you don't have that advantage. The watching for flak over friendly areas is always a good one.

 

Sometimes I lose great opportunities because I'm not a 100%. I wont fire until I'm a 100% but I may try to get an angle on you just in case until I can make sure you are not a threat. One of my first missions it was getting dark and we were over a friendly airfield. The spotlights and flak were amazing. I shot down a total of three aircraft and wrecked my engine due to not knowing the limits quite yet. After I landed a guy started yelling about teamkilling. I asked if he could tell who did it somewhere and don't think it had anything to do with me. The lights and flak were tracking the ones I shot and the last two I saw that big red star. 

 

Today I was in a server where Germans out numbered the enemy. We flew the Volga river and I could not identify the targets. Ended up getting shot down because I couldn't decide who to shoot at. Later on in that mission we circled an enemy airbase and the flak was shooting at all of us. One lone aircraft turn toward me and no flak was following. My thoughts were no flak and he is intentionally turning toward me to engage. I lined up for a shot and fired. Pretty sure I missed but turned on him. He flashed the nav lights and I zoomed in the wings...dang...he was okay but I felt like a jerk. Although right before this incident I lit up a PE-2 so I was feeling pretty good about that.

 

All kinds of people FF and it will get better as pilots get better. The ones who do it on purpose are to be met with a swift kick in the rear.

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If you attract the War Thunder and World of Warplanes audience, this is what happens.

 

I wait with baited breath on the day that this forum is filled with pony and anime avatars. 

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FF by mistake is nothing too bad to me as long as people shooting me appologize for it and tend to learn from it. This happened in WW2 and nowdays in every video game you can possibly think of, sometimes even when markers are involved.

Those who completly don't care for it and don't even consider to appologize for it are buggers though that should be "punished". It's the only way to get them learning the game better to avoid that in future.

 

So far I've only 1 time shot at an friendly who was flying against the sun and dangerously positioned to me as he was about to attack. I've missed fortunately and imedently appologized for it to point out it was a mistake. This should be more or less common MP behaviour in my opinion.

Edited by [Jg26]5tuka
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If you attract the War Thunder and World of Warplanes audience, this is what happens.

 

I wait with baited breath on the day that this forum is filled with pony and anime avatars. 

 

So it is bad to attract any new customers, that have any interest in WWII or Aircraft?, unless you were making a joke, further shrinking this niche market does not seem the way to get any further development in our little corner of the world...

 

Cheers Dakpilot

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I'm not usually an online player, but I've been giving it a go while waiting for some more substantial offline content. I must say I'm pretty disappointed in the shabby behaviour of the people that favour Luftwaffe aircraft. They seem happiest when shooting parachutes or playing a monotonous game of whack the mole over Soviet airfields. Sad to say it, but I'm yet to have a good experience from them.

Hi Feathered. I fly 95% offline  on all my sims mostly because of what you state above. Not just Bos(and not just Luftwaffe) but all Sims.

For Offline players that want to Fly, Navigate, Attack and RTB to feel satisfied they have flown a Sim ,Online can be off-putting as you say above.....In an Offline Campaign,you wont meet stat "People",but Online you will.

Some people say "jump on TS" (and listen to a lot of Crap about personal issues etc). ..Join a Squad (not for me).

Some of the most exciting Simming I have had,has been Online...

I know I am on my own. I know the map and I know my Mission Goal. I guess where the "glory" guys are and avoid them.

Feathered, There is nothing more exciting than being ambushed by Guys on TS who thought "you were Easy Meat" to attack and you ended up giving them Bloody Noses.

You land your Plane. Mission Accomplished for Offline Player "Online'....For Me, Simming at its Best !~S~

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Won't there be server kicks and bans coming along soon? Thought I read that.

 

people rules  ... don't do the mistake again.

 

server rules ..... I think this time every one has formal register username  with not easy change and  server programming is smart enough to know which one of user

made FF and how many time he did  so server send message to that guys ..." you will be  ban from this server 2 week  if you keep make FF again.! " :biggrin: 

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well i was teamkilled in an he111 once....that plane should have been easy to identify (+ i was on landing approach)

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well i was teamkilled in an he111 once....that plane should have been easy to identify (+ i was on landing approach)

Once on the Expert server i TKed a HE too. Man i felt soo dumb. It was late and i should have went to bed earlier that day:)

If there is ONE thing that practically CANNOT be mixed up its a HE:)

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My opinion so far is. FF can happen. It shouldn't, but in an enormous airbattle can happen. For sure, Ju-87, Il-2, He-111 and Pe-2 are easy to identify. And the most autogunners should shoot back. If not, it supposed to be friendly. I hope, that it won't take the direction you that you'll get banned for the veryfirst FF or the second. If it happens in time twice or more then you know, this isn't accidental and the guy should be banned. Otherwise bite the bitter pill and hope the other guy apologize fir it.

On the other hand, I find it ok to attack planes on both, landing approach and on the runway. As passionated bomber pilots I throw my bombs on airstrips too and if anybody just stand there...he is unlucky so far. Enemy fighter wouldn't let me fly, if I am on bombing aproach. Ussally I would reconsider, as well as in the game as in real life, if I land on an airstrip in a battle zone. Other point would be, if I try an emergency landing while my plane is heavily demaged. But even here...if someone shoot me by trying it, it just wasn't my day. Not honorable - but - there aren't many honourable people in dishonourabke times... :D

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I had a target lined up so perfectly and he was focused on a pair having a go at each other near the deck as we were both zooming down. It the last second I id'd him as a 190 so I tore straight past him.... to my horror I saw the red stars and the menacing look of a LA5 and by then it was too late..... instead of having a near guaranteed kill I suddenly had to put the afterburners on and make a run for it with an angry russian on my tail.

 

Oh well.... at least it makes the game interesting and exciting.

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Hey,

 

sometimes you have to wonder what is going on in their minds. I've been shot down in a La5 making a bombing run over an enemy airfield by my own side. why would this pilot in particular think an emeny was trying to bomb his own airfield? I'd already done a few low passes taking out AA first.

 

I think some pilots just see a plane, the red mist decends and thats it, don't bother with ID just pull the trigger.

 

S**t happens.

 

cheers

Edited by keeno

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I really like how the old Warclouds server handled it back in its heyday.  TK'ing was an automatic -200 points, and at -300 you got kicked with a 5 minute ban.  Same penalty for excessive deaths... at 3 pilot deaths or captures you got kicked with a 5 minute ban.  The ban was shortened and then removed as popularity declined, but in the months after PF was released you could wait for 30 minutes to get on the server, and the 5 minute ban was essential to keeping the population moving a bit and weeding out the reckless and the foolish.

 

When in a 6 pursuit I've had to close to within point-blank occasionally to figure out what the other plane was, but I don't understand how anyone could make a mistake if you can see the top or bottom, such as in a turn fight.  The wing shapes are radically different.  I can see mistaking the emblem... even at high resolutions, at any kind of distance the star looks like the same blob as the iron cross.  The wings, though... there's no way you can mistake those pointed triangles for anything other than a Yak, and the long rounded-end wings for anything other than a 109.

Edited by NervousEnergy

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well i was teamkilled in an he111 once....that plane should have been easy to identify (+ i was on landing approach)

 

Same... He 111 actually in formation with other He 111 and 2x 109, approaching Pitomnik on a resupply mission... He boom & zoomed us and tried to shoot the 109s as well. Intentional teamkiller for sure.

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Had one teammate follow me around for about 5 minutes trying to kill me and I tried everything to show him who I was.  He was slow close at one point I thought he mite run into me but he still killed me in the end.  I understand that this is a new game with a influx of new players many of whom seem to be new to the sim world but its still frustrating. 

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