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Lend-Lease program and the P-40


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#1 AbortedMan

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:12

A little excerpt from an article on Soviet flown P-40's (http://lend-lease.ai.../p-40/index.htm):

 

"The first batch of Tomahawks from the USA was sent to the USSR in September 1941. This shipment was purchased for gold and was not part of the Lend-Lease program..."

 

There's a long and detailed history regarding the P-40 and it's involvement with Soviet air forces.

 

I haven't seen or heard anyone mention the P-40 being included in the (wish)list of aircraft for BoS. According to all the Googling I've done, I've found various pieces of information that would place many P-40 variants on the front lines of the Russian air war during the Battle of Stalingrad.

 

Has anything been hinted at including the P-40? Is there a demand for the P-40? It's one of my favorite aircraft of the era, I'm hoping it makes it into the game.


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#2 SYN_Hooves

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:21

I as well, the P-40 has long since been one of the iconic WWII Aircraft that I think of when ever that era is mentioned.  If I got to see one in game Id be thrilled!  Id probly name it the Santa Maria.  It'd be cool to see this as an addon (pay ware) aircraft after release if it doesn't make it in for the original.


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#3 Jaws2002

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:26

   I still have nightmares because of that "P-40 field mod" from the early Il-2 days. :D

 

Do you guys remember the monster? It felt twice as deadly as the other one. :D  Good old times.


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#4 AbortedMan

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:28

I as well, the P-40 has long since been one of the iconic WWII Aircraft that I think of when ever that era is mentioned.  If I got to see one in game Id be thrilled!  Id probly name it the Santa Maria.  It'd be cool to see this as an addon (pay ware) aircraft after release if it doesn't make it in for the original.

 

You'd name your Russian flown P-40 Santa Maria? Blasphemer!

 

I second the pay ware thing, I'd pay for a P-40 on the day of its release...Hooves and I were talking about how selling field mods for aircraft, like the M-105 field mod for the P-40...ok well, maybe not the M-105 field mod because it was a couple steps down from the original Allison engine, would be a good business model.


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#5 AbortedMan

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:34

   I still have nightmares because of that "P-40 field mod" from the early Il-2 days. :D

 

Do you guys remember the monster? It felt twice as deadly as the other one. :D  Good old times.

 

Placebo effect, my friend...the M-105 field mod version of the P-40 contained a Russian made Klimov M-105 engine. While comparable to the Allison engine, it reduced the aircraft's top speed by ~12kph, among other things...and broke a lot.


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#6 Skoshi_Tiger

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:43

There were a few calls for the P-40 in the wish lists.

 

They would be a very versatile series to have in the plane set. They would be transferable to a European theatre (Army cooperation), Western Desert, Near and Far East and later versions would be applicable to the New Guinea/Northern Australia, Pacific and SE Asian campaigns.

 

Only problem is there would have to be about three or four variants to model.

 

The P40 in it's various guises was the backbone of the RAAF during WWII


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#7 Faustnik

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:44

I've found various pieces of information that would place many P-40 variants on the front lines of the Russian air war during the Battle of Stalingrad.
 
Has anything been hinted at including the P-40? Is there a demand for the P-40? It's one of my favorite aircraft of the era, I'm hoping it makes it into the game.


572 IAP P-40Es at Stalingrad. I would love to see it in the game.
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#8 Jaws2002

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 02:47

Placebo effect, my friend...the M-105 field mod version of the P-40 contained a Russian made Klimov M-105 engine. While comparable to the Allison engine, it reduced the aircraft's top speed by ~12kph, among other things...and broke a lot.

I was talking about the early Il-2 flight models. That thing was a killer. Way more dangerous than the original one. they toned it down with time closer to the real performance.

 

I'm talking nine to ten years ago.


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#9 forsale

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:45

P-40's were probably in the area, as were hurricanes.

Id commit war crimes to see P-40's. If we get a 190 which was never there instead of the P-40 that was I will be very sad!


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#10 rps69

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:54

Nice plane to have, specially since it was available there.

 

I allways liked this machine personality. Dont forget the other american plane there, the P39. 

Those two unerdogs of american aviation history, were good participants of the eastern front.

 

If we got radios simulated as they were on reality, this planes will become priceless, and more popular than a La5FN!

 

A pitty that TS spoils this a lot.


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#11 ElAurens

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 04:59

I've been pushing for it since my first day here.

 

 

 


p40k_23.jpg


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#12 ilikepie

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 05:00

a TS plugin like TARS would be a good fit. not sure how one would go about implementing it as it would depend on the language used for coding.

 

http://www.excessive...space.com/tars/  for those that have not seen it before


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#13 AbortedMan

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 06:29

P-40's were probably in the area, as were hurricanes.
Id commit war crimes to see P-40's. If we get a 190 which was never there instead of the P-40 that was I will be very sad!


"I'd commit warcrimes" haha, I chuckled.
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#14 79_vRAF_Friendly_flyer

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 14:00

I am fairly sure the interest in the Western market for a lend/lease P-40 model and a Hurricane model will make a paid ad-on viable, so I'm not worried we won't see them eventually.


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#15 Jetlagg

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 22:25

One of my favorites.  Doesn't matter if it's in USAAF or VVS colors, but that red star does look natural on it.

 

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#16 Avimimusold

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 23:05

The variant I'd really like:

- A P-40 with the wing guns removed and only the two cowling mounted .50 calibers remaining.

 

They were used on the Russian Front and were well liked. The reduced armament also makes them more like a Mig-3. I really hope for some of the earlier model P-40s in general - they were great.


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#17 FlatSpinMan

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 08:35

I've been pushing for it since my first day here.

 

 

 


attachicon.gifp40k_23.jpg

Yes, I remember well, as if it were yesterday, but it was in fact... what, 5 days ago?


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#18 Juri_JS

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 10:47

Were there any P-40 in the Stalingrad area during the timeframe covered by BoS (November 1942 to February 1943)? As far as I know the units equipped with the P-40 were withdrawn before this time, so I doubt we will see the P-40 in the initial release.


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#19 CrazySchmidt

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 23:46

P40 is definatley my favourite mount.

 

Hope it turns up sooner rather than later.

 

CS. :)


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#20 AbortedMan

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 03:36

Were there any P-40 in the Stalingrad area during the timeframe covered by BoS (November 1942 to February 1943)? As far as I know the units equipped with the P-40 were withdrawn before this time, so I doubt we will see the P-40 in the initial release.

 

According to the article I linked, "1941-230 Tomahawks and 15 P-40E; 1942-17 Tomahawks and 487 P-40E, E-1, K, and L; 1943-939 P-40E-1, K, L, M, and N; 1944-446 primarily P-40M and N"

 

I'm foggy on the specifics, but if Russia was still importing P-40 variants during 1942 and 1943, I would think at least some were still on the front lines.


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#21 Juri_JS

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 07:59

According to the article I linked, "1941-230 Tomahawks and 15 P-40E; 1942-17 Tomahawks and 487 P-40E, E-1, K, and L; 1943-939 P-40E-1, K, L, M, and N; 1944-446 primarily P-40M and N"

 

I'm foggy on the specifics, but if Russia was still importing P-40 variants during 1942 and 1943, I would think at least some were still on the front lines.

 

According to my information the P-40 units were withdrawn from the Stalingrad front in late September after suffering too many losses, but they were still used at other fronts (Kuban, Leningrad) till the end of the war.

So I guess we will not see the P-40 before a Stalingrad summer/autumn map gets released, which won't be part of the initial release according to Jason and Loft.


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#22 Crump

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 13:43

Well I hope they expand it and include the P-40.


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#23 4./JG53_Wotan

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 14:32

Looking through Tony Wood's Combat Claims & Casualties Lists - Eastern Front Vol 2. Aug to Dec 1942 and Eastern Front Vol 2. Jan to Jun 1943 there are several claims by JG 3, JG 52, and JG 77 for "Curtis P-40s" Through November and December 1942.

http://lesbutler.co....ms/tonywood.htm

EDIT:

The P-40 Claims for November and December 1942 were most likely misidentified:

http://forum.12ocloc...alingrad&page=4

Edited by 4./JG53_Wotan, 20 December 2012 - 14:42.

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#24 FlyingShark

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 14:56

I would love to see the P40 in BOS.

 

It's my all time favorite airplane.

 

~S~


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#25 No.401_Wolverine

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 15:48

Another vote for the P40 here. It's my favorite American warbird of the era.


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#26 FlatSpinMan

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 16:03

"Well I hope they expand it and include the P-40."

Yep, it'd be nice to have alright.

 

Wotan - nice bit of researching. Thanks for following up, especially.


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#27 Buzzsaw

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 18:35

Salute

 

In 1941 and most of 42, most P-40's were imported through Murmansk, and were used on the Northern Front, either at Murmansk or the Leningrad area. 

 

By mid '42 a few were beginning to be imported through the southern Caucasus route, but that was interrupted by  the German advances.  In 1943, large numbers of P-40 came through the Caucasus.

 

Far more Hurricanes were used in the southern Front than P-40's in 1942.  Many were brought up through Iran and the Caucasus.


Edited by Buzzsaw, 20 December 2012 - 18:36.

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#28 4./JG53_Wotan

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 20:40

The primary air army over Stalingrad during this time was the 8th Air Army. On 19 Novemeber 1942 the VVS 8th Air Army had 1088 aircraft - of which 10 were Hurricanes.

 

There was one IAP eguipped with P-40s early on (August 1942) but suffered heavy losses and was withdrawn from the area by November 1942.

 

I doubt we will see Hurricanes - at least initially. I think we can assume we will be get the mainstay Luftwaffe and VVS aircraft. I only hope that Romania and Italy don't get forgotten.


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#29 4./JG53_Wotan

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 21:08

Actually:

A Division of Hurricanes in the Battle of Stalingrad.

In early June 1942 a whole fighter division equipped entirely with Hurricanes, 235 IAD became part of 8 VA (8th Air Army). The unit was commanded by Lt. Col. I. D. Podgomiy. It comprised 46, 191, and 436 IAP. On 25 June it was joined by 180 IAP equipped with 20 Hurricanes. All those regiments, apart from 191 IAP, have been trained at Ivanovo. In order to facilitate rapid conversion to the British equipment, 3 British pilots and 16 fitters were present at Ivanovo. When moving to the front line, the division was largely equipped with aircraft fitted with the Soviet armament, or Mk IIC aircraft. In heavy fighting, with constantly changing unprepared landing grounds, the Hurricanes started to wear out rapidly. For example 436 IAP changed airfields no less than 12 times within 2 months. On 22 July 1942 two surviving Hurricanes of 191 IAP were handed over to a neighbouring unit. Two days later also 46 and 180 IAP were sent back for replenishment at Ivanovo. All the surviving and serviceable aircraft were assembled in 436 IAP. On 1 August 1942 8 VA had a total of 11 Hurricanes, of which only 3 combat-ready. During the rapid retreat of the Russians, all remaining Hurricanes were destroyed by own ground personnel at Kalch-on-Don airfield.


From: http://forum.12ocloc...37&postcount=13

Main thread: http://forum.12ocloc...ight=Stalingrad
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