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Editor in IL-2 BoS for users?


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#1 YoYo

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 08:09

Hello,

I have a question about Editor for users.

 

How it will be look like?

 

Its a very imported for users made campaigns, missions, coops, multi ect. "Old" IL-2 had very easy and not complex editor (but power tool), it was not perfect but good. DCS has a good editor too but RoF has a very difficult editor (just for very experienced users). If we compare quantity of IL-2 missions, campaigns to RoF its like 90/10 so I hope in BoS we will recive too USER FRIENDLY editor (not like in RoF)? ; - )

 

Maybe good idea to say something in next Developer Diary about this?


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#2 Robert

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 08:12

It's been stated that the editor will be like the one in Rise of Flight.


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#3 Uufflakke

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 08:30

Like Robert said: BoS editor will be like RoF.

 

The  ROF editor wasn't meant for players basically but for the dev team. Therefor it is quite complex.

(I remember to have read that somewhere.)

 

In Dev Update #22 there is some info about the editor:

http://forum.il2sturmovik.com/topic/168-developer-diary/#entry13244

 

 

And some Q&A from Dev Update #1:

 

19) Do you plan more user-friendly full mission editor? By the principle of WYSIWYG

 

No, instead we provide you great features very quickly create any type of missions through the game interface. Those who are working on a campaign with the script or the story missions, they have the knowledge and perseverance to work with complex systems.

 

20) Will be use a mission editor from ROF (rather complex, but very interesting piece) in a new project?

Yes, in full.


Edited by Uufflakke, 20 October 2013 - 08:31.

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#4 YoYo

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 09:04

Ups, pity, WYSIWYG its a good idea for many users.

I personally prefer this kind of Editor from DCS or Maddox's IL-2.....


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#5 Cybermat47

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 09:34

I preferred the IL2 editor. I've made loads of missions. I can't figure out how to use the RoF editor. But it's the dev's choice.
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#6 =LD=King_Hrothgar

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 11:11

I too made tons of missions for IL2 but I've never figured out RoF's editor. With that said, it is indeed very powerful judging by what the Syndicate and New Wings servers run. Just have to figure it out and I've never committed the time to doing so. IL2's and DCS's are very simple, I just dove into them without checking any tutorials or directions, it's obvious how they work.


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#7 =BKHZ=Furbs

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 11:55

What would be a good idea is for the devs to make a good number of basic missions templates for us to tinker with, i always found that is the best way to learn.


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#8 YoYo

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 16:01



I too made tons of missions for IL2 but I've never figured out RoF's editor. 

 

Screen of RoF Editor. Not too easy from first time ; ). Its only multi mission so no any difficult script - just for dog.

 

th_Nowy-2_zpsdd38c1f4.jpg

Edited by YoYo, 20 October 2013 - 16:13.

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#9 Dakpilot

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 16:04

I preferred the IL2 editor. I've made loads of missions. I can't figure out how to use the RoF editor. But it's the dev's choice.

 

Am sure i have read discussion about the use of the RoF editor and it has been stated that they would love to have the same qualities and power but with a simple to use interface, but the time and cost to implement has been the limiting factor, and not a choice or accepting that the current one is ideal.

I would hope that if BOS meets with success on official release, or even during beta testing that some work can be done to make the editor more user friendly to more people, one of IL-2's great features was the mass of user made content which is still added to this day be it single player campaigns/missions or multiplayer

 

Cheers Dakpilot 


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#10 YoYo

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 16:11

Am sure i have read discussion about the use of the RoF editor and it has been stated that they would love to have the same qualities and power but with a simple to use interface, but the time and cost to implement has been the limiting factor, and not a choice or accepting that the current one is ideal.

I would hope that if BOS meets with success on official release, or even during beta testing that some work can be done to make the editor more user friendly to more people, one of IL-2's great features was the mass of user made content which is still added to this day be it single player campaigns/missions or multiplayer

 

Cheers Dakpilot 

 

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#11 AcesHigh

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 19:29

Did they ever release a dynamic campaign in Rise of Flight?   I thought I read somewhere it was in progress.


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#12 FuriousMeow

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 23:07

Did they ever release a dynamic campaign in Rise of Flight?   I thought I read somewhere it was in progress.

 

Yes, a long time ago.


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Spoiler

 

Refraction: http://forums.eagle....9&postcount=348


#13 Cybermat47

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Posted 20 October 2013 - 23:44

Did they ever release a dynamic campaign in Rise of Flight?   I thought I read somewhere it was in progress.


There are actually two. PWCG and the Beta Career mode.
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#14 Trooper117

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 05:24

The problem with the RoF ME is because of it's rather complex nature, unlike the IL2 editor which was far easier to understand and use, there was nothing anywhere near the missions and user made campaigns that IL2 had to offer.
Some bleat on about the reasons and the why fors, but regardless of that, if nothing is done to make a simpler user friendly version, we are going to have that same barren wasteland that we see in RoF as regards user made content.
One of the reasons I stuck with IL2 (and still do) is because of the prolific amount of quality missions and campaigns that were being generated at a steady rate for years.
As an old fogey who knows not a lot about what goes into a good ME or how to change it into something more usable, I still very quickly got into the IL2 editor and made small campaigns and missions with relative ease.
Not so with RoF, unfortunately.
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#15 Robert

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 05:55

http://www.youtube.c...ser/bvanderstok

 

 

Here's a series of You Tube videos going over the basics of he RoF mission editor. Thanks go to Vanderstok.


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#16 Trooper117

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 06:03

Yep, its good stuff, I've got them all and I have been trying to utilise the thing for ages, with not a great deal of success.. Also, there have been major changes to the ME that the links and videos from the RoF useful materials page just doesn't cover.


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#17 II./JG27_Rich

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 09:10

Here's a really good mission editer tutorial

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=kvN86qjIZV8

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=0IUFyzriMIg

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=nqG3MJhxBCw


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#18 YoYo

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Posted 21 October 2013 - 10:20

But hope in the Future They will do a little user friendly version of editor as WYSIWYG.


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#19 ElAurens

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 13:02

I have gone on about this issue, and it is an issue, in previous threads on the subject.

 

The Mission Editor needs to be made simpler, end of story.

 

My hat is off to those with the programming knowledge and IT experience needed to utilize the current RoF ME, but most of us are not IT pros or game developers, and find the current editor a bewildering nightmare.  And yes, I've tried those video tutorials.

 

Simply put, the long term success of this title demands that a simpler mission editor be released ASAP after the title goes gold.


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#20 VR-Stick

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 13:42

AcesHigh:

 

Did they ever release a dynamic campaign in Rise of Flight?   I thought I read somewhere it was in progress.

 

 

Yes, a long time ago.

 

For SP only unfortunately.  It is an mp dynamic campaign generator that is needed.


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#21 FlatSpinMan

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 14:57

What on earth does WYSIWYG mean?
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#22 AndyJWest

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 15:38

What on earth does WYSIWYG mean?

What You See Is What You Get. Which incidentally makes no sense for a mission editor. 'What you get' is the mission, not icons on a map.


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#23 Dakpilot

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 16:06

http://www.smashingm...itors-reviewed/#

 

What does WYSIWYG mean?

The somehow cryptic abbreviation WYSIWYG stands for “What You See Is What You Get”. In such editors you edit not directly the source code of your documents, but its presentation as it (hopefully) will appear in the final document. So instead of writing blocks of code manually (as you e.g. would do it in Word or Latex), you manipulate with design components using an editor window. This means that you view something very similar to the end result while the document or image is being created.

 

This , although from 2008

 

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#24 Extreme_One

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 16:39

I wonder if potential mission creators would pay extra for a user-friendly editor.

And I wonder if the consensus was that they would, would this be enticement enough to get some real dialogue with the developer on this matter.

Just wondering...
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#25 ElAurens

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 16:51

I wonder if potential mission creators would pay extra for a user-friendly editor.

And I wonder if the consensus was that they would, would this be enticement enough to get some real dialogue with the developer on this matter.

Just wondering...

 

 

IMHO that would set a dangerous precedent.

 

A mission editor is not optional content, like a sidearm or a reflector sight (to use the RoF example).  It is a necessary, basic part of any combat flight simulator.


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#26 Extreme_One

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 18:36

IMHO that would set a dangerous precedent.

 

A mission editor is not optional content, like a sidearm or a reflector sight (to use the RoF example).  It is a necessary, basic part of any combat flight simulator.

I hear you, but couldn't it be argued that BOS has/will have a basic, functional editor, so the necessity has already been met?

We need to push this issue higher up the developer's priority list.
Presumably there will be a far greater return for man-hours spent on developing planes / maps than there would be spent developing a more usable ME interface.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm just as keen as anyone to see a more user-friendly editor and I hope, one way or another, we can get the developers to show the editor some love.


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#27 adonys

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 18:40

IL2 BoS will absolutely have to have an editor accepting code injected mission scripts.. like the one from IL2 CoD has. Otherwise, my bet is it won't stand a chance against it :)


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#28 Extreme_One

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 18:49

IL2 BoS will absolutely have to have an editor accepting code injected mission scripts.. like the one from IL2 CoD has. Otherwise, my bet is it won't stand a chance against it :)

The code part of mission-creation was the sole reason why I stayed away from the CLoD mission editor.

I just don't have time to learn to code, not if I want to actually fly some and create some missions too.

Mission creating in IL2 was FUN - in CLoD it felt like WORK!

 

I fully appreciate that the CLoD editor was powerful for those that could code, I just hope for a method of achieving similarly complex mission structures with a decent interface instead of lines of code.


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#29 =69.GIAP=STENKA69GIAP

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 19:46

YoYo

 Its only multi mission so no any difficult script - just for dog.

Not accurate, It does, single user mission it does multi user mission.

VR-Stick

Did they ever release a dynamic campaign in Rise of Flight?   I thought I read somewhere it was in progress.

Yes there is a multi-user campaign generator under development for ROF and BOS at the 69.GIAP it will be available before general release of Stalingrad. I know that because I am cutting some of the code and doing integration testing.
Note that in IL2 and Clod the editor did not develop this, in IL2 it was the community, in Clod it was nobody.


adonys

IL2 BoS will absolutely have to have an editor accepting code injected mission scripts.. like the one from IL2 CoD has.

The need to hack c# scripts referencing undocumented variables into missions in Clod was an abortion.

Why not read the Mission editor manual for ROF?

Via group files you have an immensely powerful interface into the mission builder which can handle conditional events, random events, interaction between objects.And it's actualy documented.
 


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#30 1./JG42Nephris

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 21:33

I can neither follow the probs with the Rof editor.
For sure it is not obvious and easy like Il2 1946 ME was, but therefore u r able to realise much more complex processes.
However u do not need any IT knowledges but one hour freetime per basic video provided by Vanderstock to realise sp,coop or just mp missions.It is just the first step into the cold water and the idea to deal with it.

You now got the time to get used to Rof=Bos ME b4 the release.

It is really not that bad as it sounds.
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#31 II./JG27_Rich

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 22:17

Have all of the doubters looked at the tutorial?

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=kvN86qjIZV8

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=0IUFyzriMIg

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=nqG3MJhxBCw


Edited by II./JG27Richie, 22 October 2013 - 22:20.

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#32 ElAurens

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Posted 22 October 2013 - 23:13

Yes, I watched it.

 

Struggled for a couple hours trying to make a simple DF map that I could fly on with my friends.

 

It didn't work.

 

All I want to do is put bases on either side, click on them, pick the planes I want and set the conditions, then populate the map with some ground targets.

 

It should be simple, not a bloody career.


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#33 II./JG27_Rich

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 00:33

I haven't tried it so if it's a pain to work with especially for the IL-2 comunity maybe something will be done.


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#34 adonys

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 04:33

Yes there is a multi-user campaign generator under development for ROF and BOS at the 69.GIAP it will be available before general release of Stalingrad. I know that because I am cutting some of the code and doing integration testing.
Note that in IL2 and Clod the editor did not develop this, in IL2 it was the community, in Clod it was nobody.

you are wrong, sir. IL2CoD community and 3rd parties developed both pilot careers and dynamic campaign code. and not just one of each.

The need to hack c# scripts referencing undocumented variables into missions in Clod was an abortion.
Why not read the Mission editor manual for ROF?
Via group files you have an immensely powerful interface into the mission builder which can handle conditional events, random events, interaction between objects.And it's actualy documented.

the fact that IL2CoD's API wasn't documented doesn't change the fact that we could code almost anything into it (radar, communication's behavior, server commands, dynamic campaigns, pilot careers, repairing & refuelling & rearming, coop missions, triggered aircraft failures.. you name it).

with only simple scripting at around IL2 1946's level and without API & code modules like in IL2 CoD there will be severe limitations to what community can produce with the editor, and that will influence product's life cycle in a negative way, as the community content will be inferior by far to even to the one already existing for IL2CoD (not to mention the future produced one).

Edited by adonys, 23 October 2013 - 04:34.

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#35 WTE_Ibis

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 10:14

I have made many complex and enjoyable missions for IL2 but I didn't buy ROF after reading about its mission editor./

I may have to stay with IL2 as for me half the fun is making varied and complex missions easily.


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#36 Trooper117

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 10:36

Great... Now because I have concerns about the ME in BoS I'm classed as a 'doubter'... give me a friggin break.

I'm not some teenage spotty faced cry baby, I've been flight simming for donkeys years and I know this is an issue for people.

Let me put it simply... IL2 FMB = Lots of user made missions and campaigns... RoF ME = very scarce missions and campaigns in comparison.

I can't stress this enough. Many, many people have stated over the years that the thing that made them stick with IL2 or come back to it, was the quality and quantity of the user made missions and campaigns.

RoF on the other hand has had only a handful. The latest campaign we even had to buy.. (which was very good by the way)...

There was one, and only one thing that made those campaigns and missions so prolific in IL2, and that was the ease of use of its FMB.

If anyone thinks that people like me are just 'doubters' and simply gobbing off for the hell of it, then think again chaps!

(God I need a cup of tea... it's like the blind leading the blind sometimes) :(


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#37 FlatSpinMan

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 10:41

Ha! Splitter! Stirrer!
Stone him!
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#38 Trooper117

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 11:06

lol.. I've been stoned before old boy :)
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#39 =69.GIAP=STENKA69GIAP

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 20:09

you are wrong, sir. IL2CoD community and 3rd parties developed both pilot careers and dynamic campaign code. and not just one of each.

 

If that's the case and you have developed the equivalent of SEOW in Clod, please accept my condolenses but I don't think you did and if you did you have wasted many man/days.

the fact that IL2CoD's API wasn't documented doesn't change the fact that we could code almost anything into it (radar, communication's behavior, server commands, dynamic campaigns, pilot careers, repairing & refuelling & rearming, coop missions, triggered aircraft failures.. you name it).

Go download a java manual, you can do almost anything in that too, in what way is that relevant?

 

The basic point of this thread is that users are frightened of the ROF mission editor beacause it is more complicated than the IL2 FMB.

 

And you think learning c# coding against undocumented variables will solve that?

 

ROF Mission Editor is complicated, but it is far better supported by documentation and how to use than IL2 or Clod.

 

If you actualy read the manual and start working with it you might realise how you actualy have a massively powerful mission editor with a well documented integration interface.

 

Why not start building the future, rather than wallowing in your self-rightious grief of the past?

 

Now for the rest of you, I understand it is a bit complicated in mission editor but a simple single/multi user interface is not that compicate to create.

I am busy working on the multi user campaign system so a lot of the design concepts match. I've not got time to deal with them but I can point someone else in the right direction.

 

So if there is someone that has good experience in mission building, has experience in any form of programming and more time than common sence PM me.

 

 

 

 


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#40 Matt

Matt
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Posted 23 October 2013 - 20:38

All I want to do is put bases on either side, click on them, pick the planes I want and set the conditions, then populate the map with some ground targets.

 

It should be simple, not a bloody career.

Well, finally someone who posts what he's trying to do with the mission editor.

 

OK, here's a step-by-step guide:

 

1. Launch the mission editor.

2. In the mission properties window, choose a the mission name. Click on the "mission type" tab and select "deathmatch"

3. On the right side click on "airfields" and choose either "fr_lrg", "fr_med", "ger_lrg" or "ger_med"

4. Left click on the map to place the airfield. Left click and hold on the now placed airfield to move it or press and hold the left mouse while putting the cursor in the red box to rotate it. You can give the airfield a name in the "name" field.

5. Click on "create linked entity" in the "airfields properties window" to activate the airfield (otherwise the airfield will just be visible, but you can't choose to spawn by it.

6. Click on the "planes" button to the left of the "create linked entity" button in the airfields properties window to open the planes menu.

7. Click on "add", then choose the plane by clicking on "model", set the number of planes or set it to unlimited. Select payload, fuel load or "start in air" if you want to have airstart and set the altitude if you need that. Then click OK.

8. Right click and select "advanced properties". Set the country to the country you need. Then click on "OK".

9. For ground targets, on the right side click on "vehicles" (or whatever you want to have) and choose the vehicle or building of your choice. Place it on the map by left clicking on the map and move it around or rotate it (see 4.)

10. Left click on "create linked entity" in the "vehicle properties" or "block properties" window. (see 5.)

11. RIght click on the vehicle/building and click on "advanced properties" and choose a country (see 8.). If you want multiple units of the same type with the same country, you can simple copy&paste the unit or even groups of units.

12. Save the mission in the "Rise of Flight\data\Multiplayer\Dogfight\" folder.


Edited by Matt, 23 October 2013 - 20:52.

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